9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: rog@vitanuova.com
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] new compilers
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:31:34 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9ddc336b5437f42b2ca0bef18c45ad3d@vitanuova.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1388b3a83891b000d624805b51308b94@plan9.bell-labs.com>

> I find the notion of pre-compiled headers for anything other than
> a very special situation rather odd.

it is odd.  i've just been playing with trying to get some stuff
working under macos x, and the interfaces are just amazing.  the
standard approach seems to be to enumerate every possible situation
(often literally, with enums) in the interface.  a few days ago i did
a little test, just to appreciate the full extent of things.  cpp of a
null source file (with only the #includes i needed) gave over 100,000
lines of code.  there were at least 20,000 enum constants defined,
with names such as kAudioHardwarePropertyBootChimeVolumeRangeDecibels,
and kAudioFormatProperty_AvailableEncodeChannelLayoutTags.

and the interfaces that are presented are almost unusable even if you
take that on board.  i've been looking at the audio interfaces;
functionality provided by the system includes facilities to read mp3
files, do sample-rate conversion, and produce sound output, so i
thought, as a first test, i'd try to play an mp3 file.  i haven't
succeeded yet.

after struggling for a good while, i found some example code that does
this.  it's over 1000 lines of code.  when it should be about 10.  i'd
think perhaps it was deliberate, if it didn't all seem so carefully
done, with loving attention given to every misbegotten line of header
file.

as charles put it recently, with relation to usb: ``enough is
specified to make it complicated, but not enough to be complete, once
for all.'' so true.

given that kind of programming environment, the decision to use
precompiled headers becomes slightly more understandable, i suppose.

i guess the only good thing is that by using interfaces like that, they'll
be wasting countless man-hours of programmer time, potentially
allowing those using smaller, smarter interfaces a competitive advantage.
yeah right.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-03-27 17:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 125+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-03-25 13:56 Russ Cox
2006-03-25 19:48 ` David Leimbach
2006-03-25 19:53   ` Burton Samograd
2006-03-25 19:59     ` David Leimbach
2006-03-25 20:02   ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-25 21:25     ` Brantley Coile
2006-03-25 21:28     ` quanstro
2006-03-25 21:33       ` Brantley Coile
2006-03-25 22:42         ` quanstro
2006-03-25 22:46         ` quanstro
2006-03-26  1:46           ` jmk
2006-03-26  2:52             ` quanstro
2006-03-26  8:14               ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2006-03-26  8:41                 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2006-03-26 17:06                   ` Bruce Ellis
2006-03-26 17:00             ` David Leimbach
2006-03-27 17:31             ` rog [this message]
2006-03-27 19:01               ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-27 19:15                 ` Paul Lalonde
2006-03-27 19:21                   ` Bruce Ellis
2006-03-30 17:41                   ` rog
2006-03-30 17:44                     ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-30 18:24                       ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-30 17:51                     ` Christoph Lohmann
2006-03-30 17:54                       ` Sape Mullender
2006-03-30 18:30                         ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-30 18:43                           ` Gabriel Diaz
2006-03-30 18:48                             ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-30 18:51                               ` Gabriel Diaz
2006-03-30 18:51                             ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-30 21:00                           ` Bakul Shah
2006-03-30 23:16                             ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-30 23:23                             ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-31  6:16                               ` uriel
2006-03-31  7:56                           ` Bruce Ellis
2006-03-31  9:04                             ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-30 23:32                         ` Adrian Tritschler
2006-03-30 17:57                       ` rog
2006-03-30 18:27                         ` rog
2006-03-30 20:46                           ` Roman Shaposhnick
2006-03-31  1:15                             ` Steve Simon
2006-03-31  1:24                               ` Russ Cox
2006-03-31  2:00                               ` Joel Salomon
2006-03-31  2:26                               ` Martin C. Atkins
2006-03-31  8:46                                 ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-31  8:49                                   ` Bruce Ellis
2006-03-31 21:40                                 ` Taj Khattra
2006-03-31  4:24                             ` Jack Johnson
2006-03-31  4:33                               ` veritosproject
2006-03-30 17:58                       ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-30 18:03                       ` jmk
2006-03-30 18:13                         ` Brantley Coile
2006-03-30 18:57                       ` Burton Samograd
2006-03-30 19:15                         ` David Leimbach
2006-03-30 19:22                           ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-30 19:29                             ` Rob Pike
2006-03-30 19:58                               ` David Leimbach
2006-03-28  0:30 erik quanstrom
2006-03-28  0:40 erik quanstrom
2006-03-28 17:52 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2006-03-28 18:15   ` Bakul Shah
2006-03-28 18:29     ` Sape Mullender
2006-03-28 18:52       ` LiteStar numnums
2006-03-28 19:15         ` Victor Nazarov
2006-03-29 16:33           ` Burton Samograd
2006-03-29 21:17             ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2006-03-29 21:44               ` Wes Kussmaul
2006-04-02 18:17       ` Aharon Robbins
2006-04-02 18:33         ` Bruce Ellis
2006-04-02 19:47         ` lucio
2006-04-02 20:12           ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-04-02 20:16             ` LiteStar numnums
2006-04-03  4:35               ` lucio
2006-04-03  5:38                 ` George Michaelson
2006-04-03  6:45                   ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2006-04-03  5:38                 ` LiteStar numnums
2006-04-03  8:31                 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2006-04-03  9:36                   ` uriel
2006-04-03 12:50                     ` Martin C. Atkins
2006-04-03  9:39                   ` lucio
2006-04-03 13:46                 ` Brantley Coile
2006-04-03 14:30                 ` David Leimbach
2006-04-03 16:02                   ` Bruce Ellis
2006-04-03 20:41                     ` Jack Johnson
2006-04-03 21:02                       ` uriel
2006-04-03 21:32                         ` Ronald G Minnich
2006-04-03 23:42                           ` Bruce Ellis
2006-04-04  0:29                           ` Anthony Sorace
2006-04-04  5:02                             ` Bruce Ellis
2006-04-04  3:15                         ` Jack Johnson
2006-04-04  3:28                         ` Jack Johnson
2006-04-04  6:31                           ` David Leimbach
2006-04-04  4:21                         ` lucio
2006-04-05  1:00                         ` Brantley Coile
2006-04-05  4:35                           ` Bruce Ellis
2006-04-04 12:31                       ` rog
2006-04-03  3:17           ` plan9
2006-04-03  4:17             ` lucio
2006-03-29  1:18 erik quanstrom
2006-03-30 20:14 Steve Simon
2006-03-31  9:17 Fco. J. Ballesteros
2006-03-31  9:40 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-31  9:42 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-31  9:43 ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-31  9:46 ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-31  9:48   ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-31  9:56     ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-31 10:01       ` Bruce Ellis
2006-03-31 10:03       ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-31 10:08         ` Skip Tavakkolian
2006-03-31 14:58       ` David Leimbach
2006-03-31 15:01         ` Bruce Ellis
2006-03-31 22:02 ` Taj Khattra
2006-04-03 16:21 ` Ronald G Minnich
2006-04-03 17:17   ` Paul Lalonde
2006-04-03 19:01     ` Artem Letko
2006-04-03 19:22       ` Paul Lalonde
2006-03-31 12:31 Fco. J. Ballesteros
2006-03-31 12:53 ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-31 13:23 ` Charles Forsyth
2006-03-31 14:42   ` Bruce Ellis
2006-03-31 13:27 erik quanstrom
2006-03-31 14:47 ` Bruce Ellis
2006-03-31 14:42 erik quanstrom
2006-04-03 22:54 erik quanstrom

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=9ddc336b5437f42b2ca0bef18c45ad3d@vitanuova.com \
    --to=rog@vitanuova.com \
    --cc=9fans@cse.psu.edu \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).