From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:37:37 +0100
Message-ID: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Peter A. Cejchan" <tyapca7@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c7ea6cb61904d624b5e3
Subject: [9fans] [RQ:] SATA HD 2+ TB native recommendations
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--e89a8ff1c7ea6cb61904d624b5e3
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Hi, folks,

I am about to buy an internal HD for my native Plan9 box.
I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to work?
Native, not p9p.

Also, can anyone recommend a hi-res video card, SXGA+ or better, 24-bit
depth?
I am aware of the "Supported PC Hardware" page, of course, however, I would
appreciate your personal experience.

Thanks, best regards,
++pac

--e89a8ff1c7ea6cb61904d624b5e3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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Hi, folks,<br><br>I am about to buy an internal HD for my native Plan9 box.=
<br>I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to w=
ork?<br>Native, not p9p.<br><br>Also, can anyone recommend a hi-res video c=
ard, SXGA+ or better, 24-bit depth?<br>
I am aware of the &quot;Supported PC Hardware&quot; page, of course, howeve=
r, I would appreciate your personal experience.<br><br>Thanks, best regards=
,<br>++pac<br><br>

--e89a8ff1c7ea6cb61904d624b5e3--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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References: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:26:37 +0100
Message-ID: <CANUoZoHYVeXvs+LkOTiogR_TFqiNcdsCpMi=hioVsGrqX=Enuw@mail.gmail.com>
From: David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [9fans] [RQ:] SATA HD 2+ TB native recommendations
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1af4beba-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to work?

I'm currently using some Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM001 in one of my
file servers.

--
David du Colombier



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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	<CANUoZoHYVeXvs+LkOTiogR_TFqiNcdsCpMi=hioVsGrqX=Enuw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:45:41 +0100
Message-ID: <CAM6ozu6LY6z7FQJkLig3_nC5V4BTPE9BbAquisGkrLdUj09FQQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Peter A. Cejchan" <tyapca7@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c7ead8966604d625a8ac
Subject: Re: [9fans] [RQ:] SATA HD 2+ TB native recommendations
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--e89a8ff1c7ead8966604d625a8ac
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Thanks, David! Does it run BellLabs Plan9, or does it require Erik's 9atom?

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 11:26 AM, David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com>wrote:

> > I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to
> work?
>
> I'm currently using some Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM001 in one of my
> file servers.
>
> --
> David du Colombier
>
>

--e89a8ff1c7ead8966604d625a8ac
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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Thanks, David! Does it run BellLabs Plan9, or does it require Erik&#39;s 9a=
tom?<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Da=
vid du Colombier <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:0intro@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">0intro@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">&gt; I need 2TB or more, c=
an anyone recommend me a model that is tested to work?<br>
<br>
</div>I&#39;m currently using some Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM001 in one of =
my<br>
file servers.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
David du Colombier<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br>

--e89a8ff1c7ead8966604d625a8ac--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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References: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANUoZoHYVeXvs+LkOTiogR_TFqiNcdsCpMi=hioVsGrqX=Enuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM6ozu6LY6z7FQJkLig3_nC5V4BTPE9BbAquisGkrLdUj09FQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:22:26 +0100
Message-ID: <CANUoZoHwaT6EgfkNG6r+V1yu_gugRFyJ1McCHSWC_4gNWZtpeQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [9fans] [RQ:] SATA HD 2+ TB native recommendations
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1b0d4980-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> Thanks, David! Does it run BellLabs Plan9, or does it require Erik's 9atom?

I run Plan 9 from Bell Labs.

--
David du Colombier



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: dexen deVries <dexen.devries@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:04:34 +0100
Message-ID: <3794363.eW0piAsezD@coil>
User-Agent: KMail/4.9.5 (Linux/3.8.0-rc7-l49; KDE/4.9.5; x86_64; ; )
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References: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM6ozu6LY6z7FQJkLig3_nC5V4BTPE9BbAquisGkrLdUj09FQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANUoZoHwaT6EgfkNG6r+V1yu_gugRFyJ1McCHSWC_4gNWZtpeQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] [RQ:] SATA HD 2+ TB native recommendations
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On Wednesday 20 of February 2013 12:22:26 David du Colombier wrote:
> > Thanks, David! Does it run BellLabs Plan9, or does it require Erik'=
s
> > 9atom?
>=20
> I run Plan 9 from Bell Labs.

Plan 9 from Bell Labs from Bell Labs :^)

--=20
dexen deVries

[[[=E2=86=93][=E2=86=92]]]




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <5124D328.8090906@yahoo.fr>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:44:08 +0100
From: Nicolas Bercher <nbercher@yahoo.fr>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
	rv:10.0.12) Gecko/20130119 Icedove/10.0.12
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: 9fans@9fans.net
References: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] [RQ:] SATA HD 2+ TB native recommendations
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1b1b4774-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On 20/02/2013 10:37, Peter A. Cejchan wrote:
> Hi, folks,
>
> I am about to buy an internal HD for my native Plan9 box.
> I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to work?
> Native, not p9p.
>
> Also, can anyone recommend a hi-res video card, SXGA+ or better, 24-bit
> depth?
> I am aware of the "Supported PC Hardware" page, of course, however, I would
> appreciate your personal experience.
>
> Thanks, best regards,
> ++pac
>

On my side, I use WD Green Caviar 1.5TB HDD although I do not recommend
them for multiple reasons (they report 512B physical blocks size
instead of 4k, they fail or slow down a lot when copying a full disk to
another one, at once).

Nicolas



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:04:20 -0500
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Message-ID: <c87a9fc8381e26e65391c302943c2fa2@kw.quanstro.net>
In-Reply-To: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Subject: Re: [9fans] [RQ:] SATA HD 2+ TB native recommendations
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1b2107b8-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> Hi, folks,
>
> I am about to buy an internal HD for my native Plan9 box.
> I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to work?
> Native, not p9p.

i'm not going to recommend any drives.  but i haven't
heard any complaints about segate, western digital or
hitachi *enterprise* drives in a while.  this doesn't mean
other drives aren't good.  i just know nothing about 'em.

here are some example of drives i might look at were i
looking for one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148825
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236352

it's important to match the product code.  one letter difference in
WD2000FYYZ and you might have a bad drive.  also the
"video" drives really are special purpose drives.

> On my side, I use WD Green Caviar 1.5TB HDD although I do not recommend
> them for multiple reasons (they report 512B physical blocks size
> instead of 4k, they fail or slow down a lot when copying a full disk to
> another one, at once).

4k drives only work in 9atom.  and they're not recommended
as a boot drive.

i've found it hard to tell, even reading the data sheets if a drive
is 512 or 4k.  but many drives have the lba number on the sticker.  and
for example 3907029168 corresponds to 512-byte sectors, 2T.

	3907029168*512/1000^4 = 2.0

- erik



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
References: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANUoZoHYVeXvs+LkOTiogR_TFqiNcdsCpMi=hioVsGrqX=Enuw@mail.gmail.com>
From: steve <steve@quintile.net>
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Message-Id: <BEC62C8E-AE98-4741-A1FE-B2C7DD699FB3@quintile.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:57:19 +0000
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Subject: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1b2feeae-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025


just a straw poll, anyone here use arcnet or know of any significant modern u=
se,

my employer uses it for data comms in TV stations, but this is becoming
superseded by ethernet these days, are we the last bastion?

-Steve




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
References: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANUoZoHYVeXvs+LkOTiogR_TFqiNcdsCpMi=hioVsGrqX=Enuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BEC62C8E-AE98-4741-A1FE-B2C7DD699FB3@quintile.net>
From: Matthew Veety <mveety@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <BEC62C8E-AE98-4741-A1FE-B2C7DD699FB3@quintile.net>
Message-Id: <A0148B81-8B64-41BE-84BB-B0F853609FBB@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:34:02 -0500
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1b34bcfe-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

It seems so. I haven't heard it being used in my lifetime.

On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:57, steve <steve@quintile.net> wrote:

>=20
> just a straw poll, anyone here use arcnet or know of any significant moder=
n use,
>=20
> my employer uses it for data comms in TV stations, but this is becoming
> superseded by ethernet these days, are we the last bastion?
>=20
> -Steve
>=20
>=20



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <51253FBD.9090605@yahoo.fr>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:27:25 +0100
From: Nicolas Bercher <nbercher@yahoo.fr>
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	rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111120 Icedove/3.1.16
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To: 9fans@9fans.net
References: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
	<c87a9fc8381e26e65391c302943c2fa2@kw.quanstro.net>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] [RQ:] SATA HD 2+ TB native recommendations
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1b39a32c-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On 20/02/2013 15:04, erik quanstrom wrote:
> 4k drives only work in 9atom.  and they're not recommended
> as a boot drive.

Do you mean 4k drives that reports 4k block size or 4k drives that
report 512B?


> i've found it hard to tell, even reading the data sheets if a drive
> is 512 or 4k.  but many drives have the lba number on the sticker.  and
> for example 3907029168 corresponds to 512-byte sectors, 2T.
>
> 	3907029168*512/1000^4 = 2.0
>
> - erik

My WD hdd hosts a "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" from Bell Labs, it is a
WDC WD15EARS-00Z.  I'm 99% sure* it is a 4k hdd that reports 512B block
sizes.  And when I installed the system, I did all the partitioning by
hand to ensure alignment for every Plan 9 partition.  It was quite a
pain.

I didn't take a look seriously to the sticker, I will next time the
box will be opened.


Nicolas

--
* If I remember well, I did some tests with misaligned partitions
under Linux, R/W operations were so slow...!  To me, it's hard to be
sure whether it's a 512B or 4kB hdd without performing some tests, like
this.



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:43:50 -0500
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Message-ID: <c5be49ba309edcfc4643bdb14a0fcb61@ladd.quanstro.net>
In-Reply-To: <51253FBD.9090605@yahoo.fr>
References: <CAM6ozu68fmG=DR9DDdB7JK9HDevDJwBKDJG6s84+SpmYETu9kA@mail.gmail.com>
	<c87a9fc8381e26e65391c302943c2fa2@kw.quanstro.net>
	<51253FBD.9090605@yahoo.fr>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] [RQ:] SATA HD 2+ TB native recommendations
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1b3e42f6-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On Wed Feb 20 16:28:48 EST 2013, nbercher@yahoo.fr wrote:
> On 20/02/2013 15:04, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > 4k drives only work in 9atom.  and they're not recommended
> > as a boot drive.
>
> Do you mean 4k drives that reports 4k block size or 4k drives that
> report 512B?

i understand the terminology to be
4k drive		4k physical sectors, 4k logical (reported to os) sectors
512e drive	4k physical sectors, 512b logical sectors

> My WD hdd hosts a "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" from Bell Labs, it is a
> WDC WD15EARS-00Z.  I'm 99% sure* it is a 4k hdd that reports 512B block
> sizes.  And when I installed the system, I did all the partitioning by
> hand to ensure alignment for every Plan 9 partition.  It was quite a
> pain.

that should work just fine.  it can be pretty slow if ever
alignment gets off.  some of these drives have a 1 sector
offset to help older versions of windows, so it's fiddly.

- erik



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <f094f1990bcdc7b9c9f64a5b82145513@proxima.alt.za>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:22:20 +0200
From: lucio@proxima.alt.za
In-Reply-To: <BEC62C8E-AE98-4741-A1FE-B2C7DD699FB3@quintile.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1b8a3b20-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> my employer uses it for data comms in TV stations, but this is becoming
> superseded by ethernet these days, are we the last bastion?

How do they propose to maintain it when the equipment starts failing?

++L




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <7381af72efb48250b5948a9d12cd3e4d@quintile.net>
From: "Steve Simon" <steve@quintile.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:19:48 +0000
To: 9fans@9fans.net
In-Reply-To: <f094f1990bcdc7b9c9f64a5b82145513@proxima.alt.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1baad092-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> How do they propose to maintain it when the equipment starts failing?

Not sure what you mean, but we run arcnet in bus mode (no central hub), on
75 ohm coax with modified PCI cards using 75ohm terminations - 75ohm coax
abounds in TV stations.

The advantage of this is we can use existing Video wiring for control systems,
and there is no single point of failure.

-Steve



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <7381af72efb48250b5948a9d12cd3e4d@quintile.net>
References: <f094f1990bcdc7b9c9f64a5b82145513@proxima.alt.za>
	<7381af72efb48250b5948a9d12cd3e4d@quintile.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:54:27 +0100
Message-ID: <CAFSF3XM9zBTUG_-G1pTg+Zc8DvF6zo_mB39Nu59aekan_fj+Tg@mail.gmail.com>
From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1bc0c4ec-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

In spite of ARCNET's deterministic operation and historic suitability
for real-time environments such as process control, the general
availability of switched gigabit Ethernet and Quality of service
capabilities in Ethernet switches has all but eliminated ARCNET today.

However, because of its simple, robust nature, ARCNET controllers are
still sold and used in industrial, embedded, and automotive
applications.

they say it's pretty deterministic. good read from wikipedia.



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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	<7381af72efb48250b5948a9d12cd3e4d@quintile.net>
	<CAFSF3XM9zBTUG_-G1pTg+Zc8DvF6zo_mB39Nu59aekan_fj+Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:16:03 +0000
Message-ID: <CAOw7k5j6F4S1a7tfLSaK=9p4TVbO4ZXvwfVZJkeTtjMsggr11g@mail.gmail.com>
From: Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04462e7a023e4c04d63cb70e
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1c77a518-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

--f46d04462e7a023e4c04d63cb70e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 21 February 2013 12:54, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:

> they say it's pretty deterministic. good read from wikipedia.


I was disappointed to discover that ARCNET did not, in fact, send packets
by shooting huge electrical arcs from sender to receiver, in the manner of
a proper science fiction film.

--f46d04462e7a023e4c04d63cb70e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On 21 February 2013 12:54, hiro <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:23h=
iro@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">23hiro@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
they say it&#39;s pretty deterministic. good read from wikipedia.</blockquo=
te></div><br>I was disappointed to discover that ARCNET did not, in fact, s=
end packets by shooting huge electrical arcs from sender to receiver, in th=
e manner of a proper science fiction film.</div>
</div>

--f46d04462e7a023e4c04d63cb70e--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
References: <f094f1990bcdc7b9c9f64a5b82145513@proxima.alt.za>
	<7381af72efb48250b5948a9d12cd3e4d@quintile.net>
	<CAFSF3XM9zBTUG_-G1pTg+Zc8DvF6zo_mB39Nu59aekan_fj+Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOw7k5j6F4S1a7tfLSaK=9p4TVbO4ZXvwfVZJkeTtjMsggr11g@mail.gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
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Message-Id: <8660961B-9CA1-4F38-8DA0-E7B146482521@gmail.com>
Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
From: David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:09:05 -0800
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1c860f04-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025


--Apple-Mail-55362369-DCFC-4FB4-9BD4-345E8DD5CBDB
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 21, 2013, at 6:16 AM, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wro=
te:

>=20
> On 21 February 2013 12:54, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>> they say it's pretty deterministic. good read from wikipedia.
>=20
> I was disappointed to discover that ARCNET did not, in fact, send packets b=
y shooting huge electrical arcs from sender to receiver, in the manner of a p=
roper science fiction film.

Teslanet?=

--Apple-Mail-55362369-DCFC-4FB4-9BD4-345E8DD5CBDB
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Feb 21, 2013, at 6:16 AM, Charles Forsyth &lt;<a href="mailto:charles.forsyth@gmail.com">charles.forsyth@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 21 February 2013 12:54, hiro <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:23hiro@gmail.com" target="_blank">23hiro@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
they say it's pretty deterministic. good read from wikipedia.</blockquote></div><br>I was disappointed to discover that ARCNET did not, in fact, send packets by shooting huge electrical arcs from sender to receiver, in the manner of a proper science fiction film.</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote><br><div>Teslanet?</div></body></html>
--Apple-Mail-55362369-DCFC-4FB4-9BD4-345E8DD5CBDB--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <b10723c542ac1c3271444e228b65636c@proxima.alt.za>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:36:15 +0200
From: lucio@proxima.alt.za
In-Reply-To: <7381af72efb48250b5948a9d12cd3e4d@quintile.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1ca887b4-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> Not sure what you mean, but we run arcnet in bus mode (no central hub), on
> 75 ohm coax with modified PCI cards using 75ohm terminations - 75ohm coax
> abounds in TV stations.

The cost of maintaining such a system must look prohibitive when
compared with off-the-shelf products.  And then you need device
drivers for every generation of OS that comes along.  I'd be at least
curious as to how these costs are justified.

I mean, I have tens of kilograms of dated network equipment, including
the odd lumps of coax cabling, but no ways could I find a practical
use for it, much as the community I'm in has no funds for more modern
stuff, so we just do without :-(

++L




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <db29c7e2569f31a93cfc20fa1d1b031e@proxima.alt.za>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:39:37 +0200
From: lucio@proxima.alt.za
In-Reply-To: <CAFSF3XM9zBTUG_-G1pTg+Zc8DvF6zo_mB39Nu59aekan_fj+Tg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1cac6be0-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> However, because of its simple, robust nature, ARCNET controllers are
> still sold and used in industrial, embedded, and automotive
> applications.

Sounds positively anachronistic.  Thanks for the clarification.

++L




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:44:36 -0500
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Message-ID: <1c796fa516a34db4215be350fe029d43@ladd.quanstro.net>
In-Reply-To: <db29c7e2569f31a93cfc20fa1d1b031e@proxima.alt.za>
References: <db29c7e2569f31a93cfc20fa1d1b031e@proxima.alt.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1cca9a0c-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> > However, because of its simple, robust nature, ARCNET controllers are
> > still sold and used in industrial, embedded, and automotive
> > applications.
>
> Sounds positively anachronistic.  Thanks for the clarification.

and so is rs-232.  usb is the way of the future.  :-)  i say this with
toungue in cheek, of course.  old does not lie along the useful
axis.

- erik



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\))
From: Jeff Sickel <jas@corpus-callosum.com>
In-Reply-To: <1c796fa516a34db4215be350fe029d43@ladd.quanstro.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:26:26 -0600
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <1EEC25CE-C5D7-4BDC-BC34-787F84260EBF@corpus-callosum.com>
References: <db29c7e2569f31a93cfc20fa1d1b031e@proxima.alt.za>
	<1c796fa516a34db4215be350fe029d43@ladd.quanstro.net>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1ce6fbfc-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025


On Feb 21, 2013, at 12:44 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

>>> However, because of its simple, robust nature, ARCNET controllers are
>>> still sold and used in industrial, embedded, and automotive
>>> applications.
>>
>> Sounds positively anachronistic.  Thanks for the clarification.
>
> and so is rs-232.  usb is the way of the future.  :-)  i say this with
> toungue in cheek, of course.  old does not lie along the useful
> axis.

rs-232/422/485 has a lot going for it, more so than usb.  Well, at least
until usb-optical cables become cheaper than copper, and even then you've
got component costs that are more expensive.  Moving to ethernet at least
opens up the ability to use MODBUS TCP.

-jas





From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <1EEC25CE-C5D7-4BDC-BC34-787F84260EBF@corpus-callosum.com>
References: <db29c7e2569f31a93cfc20fa1d1b031e@proxima.alt.za>
	<1c796fa516a34db4215be350fe029d43@ladd.quanstro.net>
	<1EEC25CE-C5D7-4BDC-BC34-787F84260EBF@corpus-callosum.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:32:50 -0500
Message-ID: <CAJFUHyWS=Vt1fcQ3YztDwcpE1NhDVLB3Vn73dXYZ4uOpfkrWrw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Calvin Morrison <mutantturkey@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1ceb8456-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On 21 February 2013 14:26, Jeff Sickel <jas@corpus-callosum.com> wrote:
>
> On Feb 21, 2013, at 12:44 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>
>>>> However, because of its simple, robust nature, ARCNET controllers are
>>>> still sold and used in industrial, embedded, and automotive
>>>> applications.
>>>
>>> Sounds positively anachronistic.  Thanks for the clarification.
>>
>> and so is rs-232.  usb is the way of the future.  :-)  i say this with
>> toungue in cheek, of course.  old does not lie along the useful
>> axis.
>
> rs-232/422/485 has a lot going for it, more so than usb.  Well, at least
> until usb-optical cables become cheaper than copper, and even then you've
> got component costs that are more expensive.  Moving to ethernet at least
> opens up the ability to use MODBUS TCP.
>
> -jas
>
>
>

Anyone look at the website?  Kinda cool

http://www.arcnet.com/



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAJFUHyWS=Vt1fcQ3YztDwcpE1NhDVLB3Vn73dXYZ4uOpfkrWrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <db29c7e2569f31a93cfc20fa1d1b031e@proxima.alt.za>
	<1c796fa516a34db4215be350fe029d43@ladd.quanstro.net>
	<1EEC25CE-C5D7-4BDC-BC34-787F84260EBF@corpus-callosum.com>
	<CAJFUHyWS=Vt1fcQ3YztDwcpE1NhDVLB3Vn73dXYZ4uOpfkrWrw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:39:39 +0100
Message-ID: <CAFSF3XM8xkcz3t-2rdWv1T=2PVexHX3diJZcm0X3t=soh0xspw@mail.gmail.com>
From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1cf43038-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

yeah, an other quote from that website:

Designers write their own application layer to meet their particular
needs and frequently do not advertise the fact that ARCNET is being
used in their product. ARCNET receives no name recognition, but is
frequently the network of choice in embedded applications. It is
hidden from the user, but with over 22 million ARCNET nodes sold gives
credibility that ARCNET is indeed popular.



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAFSF3XM8xkcz3t-2rdWv1T=2PVexHX3diJZcm0X3t=soh0xspw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <db29c7e2569f31a93cfc20fa1d1b031e@proxima.alt.za>
	<1c796fa516a34db4215be350fe029d43@ladd.quanstro.net>
	<1EEC25CE-C5D7-4BDC-BC34-787F84260EBF@corpus-callosum.com>
	<CAJFUHyWS=Vt1fcQ3YztDwcpE1NhDVLB3Vn73dXYZ4uOpfkrWrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFSF3XM8xkcz3t-2rdWv1T=2PVexHX3diJZcm0X3t=soh0xspw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:44:39 -0500
Message-ID: <CAJFUHyUjKRmR4SwEEFAvoAXpgFaJKsJmxFOgCjx1c7Y8Zd_i5Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Calvin Morrison <mutantturkey@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1cf84c18-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On 21 February 2013 14:39, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> yeah, an other quote from that website:
>
> Designers write their own application layer to meet their particular
> needs and frequently do not advertise the fact that ARCNET is being
> used in their product. ARCNET receives no name recognition, but is
> frequently the network of choice in embedded applications. It is
> hidden from the user, but with over 22 million ARCNET nodes sold gives
> credibility that ARCNET is indeed popular.
>

It makes me think that it might be congruent to unix in this fashion.
Every day users have no idea what unix servers are, but the internet
runs on it.

Apparently ARCNET used so much, but we never even hear about it! The
silent hero...



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
References: <b10723c542ac1c3271444e228b65636c@proxima.alt.za>
From: steve <steve@quintile.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <b10723c542ac1c3271444e228b65636c@proxima.alt.za>
Message-Id: <052694B2-3DF8-49D7-957D-19C8B8098DC9@quintile.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:11:23 +0000
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Subject: Re: [9fans] arcnet
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1d1492d8-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025



On 21 Feb 2013, at 17:36, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote:

>> Not sure what you mean, but we run arcnet in bus mode (no central hub), o=
n
>> 75 ohm coax with modified PCI cards using 75ohm terminations - 75ohm coax=

>> abounds in TV stations.
>=20
> The cost of maintaining such a system must look prohibitive when
> compared with off-the-shelf products.  And then you need device
> drivers for every generation of OS that comes along.  I'd be at least
> curious as to how these costs are justified.


not really.

contemporary controls, who manufacture the pci arcnet cards
supply the drivers for windows. we have drivers for the com20020
NIC for our embedded os, and the chips a as cheap as... well, old chips.

our bridge and cards are just a different software on a fairly standard
modular card which fits in our 3u rack system.

if anyone wants detail contact me off-list, this is already creating too muc=
h noise.

my real reason for asking was to gauge interest in a plan9 arcnet driver
as i am perfectly placed to write one, but it seems there is no interest at a=
ll.
this is a problem thought, i have plenty else to do :-)

> I mean, I have tens of kilograms of dated network equipment, including
> the odd lumps of coax cabling, but no ways could I find a practical
> use for it, much as the community I'm in has no funds for more modern
> stuff, so we just do without :-(
>=20
> ++L
>=20