Re: [9fans] package system for Plan 9: alpha!

["Federico G. Benavento" <benavento@gmail.com>]

hmm... this looks good, you are still using the .iso's
from the existing packages.

using hget makes it faster of course, you could
hget from http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib
but that would mean the user/package thing...
centralization sometimes makes things easier.

kudos

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 12:43 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is a refinement of fgb's fine work on a contrib system. I have
> taken his ideas a bit further, based on my use of his tools in an
> unreliable environment. I was getting quite frustrated as I had
> multiple failures in the midst of an install, and seeing the message
> 'xyz already installed', when it was only 1/2 installed, was wasting
> time. Also, I'm just not patient enough to wait for replica to do its
> work.
>
> While I think both replica and the contrib system are quite capable,
> each in their own way, I felt they were lacking for my purposes. I
> have become very impressed with how tinycore linux does binary
> packages. I decided to enumerate what I like about that system, and
> based on that, what I'd like to have on Plan 9. Not all goals are met
> however.
>
> 1. reconstitute root file system on boot, in ram, then mount packages
> as file systems, so basic root remains pristine
> 2. fast -- listing and dependencies should take well under a second;
> package install of even big things should be under 3 minutes.
> 3. easy to list package dependencies quickly
> 4. auto-install of a package and its dependencies
> 5. separate package download from install; hence download can proceed
> in parallel (not really in tinycore, just possible)
> 6. know what packages are installed quickly and easily
> 7. easy to remove a package; just remove one file, reboot, it's gone (see 1)
>   *note*: when your system boots in 10 seconds, reboot is not that big a deal
> 8. no false positive: don't think a package is installed when it is
> not or is only partially done (due to failure for example)
> 9. false negatives are ok: if a package is installed but you don't
> think it is, reinstallation should be cheap
> 10. No need for continuous tinkering of db or other files to keep it
> working correctly.
> 11. Works well in a high latency, even if high bandwidth, network.
>
> Which of these goals does replica meet, e.g. for /sys/src?
> From my point of view, none of them.
>
> Which of these goals does the current contrib system meet?
> Much as I like the contrib system, it still depends on replica, so,
> from my point of view, none of the goals are met.
> I once saw it take four hours to install openssl. That's just not workable.
>
> Which of these goals does the gui-based contrib system meet?
> This is the system that downloads .iso files and then runs replica
> against them. It meets 3, to some extent, but is still too slow for
> me; it sort of meets 6; but, unfortunately, it fails on 8.
>
> Which of these goals does my extension meet?
> 2 -- can download/install all of hg, including all dependencies, in 3
> minutes, 2 of which are hget
> 3 -- .1 seconds for 'deps hg'; .1 second for list packages; < .1
> second for list installed
> 4 -- it knows the dependencies and will install everything with one command
> 5 -- get and install are seperate commands
> 6 -- ls /installed
> 8 -- yes -- /installed/<name> is only created when the package is
> completely installed (but there are bugs still)
> 9 -- yes
> 10. there is little in the way of a db file, just a /installed
> directory (which you get by a bind -a)
> 11. It's far faster than existing systems because it uses hget
>
> 1. is obviously not yet met. I think it would be worth doing a tiny 9,
> just as we have tinycore, for terminals.
> 7. is still not met. Package removal is still a mess. I had hoped to
> just mount the .iso's and run the tools out of them but have not
> figured out all the issues yet. A simple rbind failed to do the trick.
>
> Here are some examples.
>
> # available packages
> term% time list
> 4th
> 8169
> 82563
> 9load-e820
> 9win
> X11
> abaco
>
> (etc.)
> 0.00u 0.00s 0.11r        list
>
> # what packages does hg need?
> term% time deps hg
> z
> bz2
> openssl
> python
> 0.00u 0.00s 0.10r        deps hg
>
> #install tiff
> term% install tiff
> package is tiff
> Package z already installed, no need to do it
> 9660srv 1151: serving /srv/tiff
> FINIS
>
> #install tiff again
> term% install tiff
> package is tiff
> Package z already installed, no need to do it
> Package tiff already installed, no need to do it
> FINIS
> term%
>
> Sources to these tools, including the build script, are at
> http://9grid.net/magic/webls?dir=/rminnich/src/package-tools
>
> You can try them out -- it's all there. Packages are in
> http://9grid.net/magic/webls?dir=/rminnich/src/package
>
> I don't pretend the scripts are very good, they just represent a
> starting point. Experience (mine) is that the system work well. For
> example, just doing:
>
> get openssh
> install openssh
>
> takes very little time and has worked reliably for me on 9vx.
>
> And, since I installed hg earlier, openssh install skipped the openssh
> install step. Left to the reader (or me in a bit): don't download iso
> when the package is installed! -- but it's so fast I have not
> bothered.
>
> I'm able to install packages now without worrying about whether I will
> be ready to disconnect my laptop and go home before the install is
> done!
>
> Next step, if this system is found to be useful, is to adapt fgb's gui program.
>
> ron
>
>



-- 
Federico G. Benavento