From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <86ipx4s36p.fsf@cmarib.ramside> <86ei7ry76s.fsf@cmarib.ramside> <86zkqf46vz.fsf@cmarib.ramside> <86mxmfuiep.fsf_-_@cmarib.ramside> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 10:21:39 -0800 Message-ID: From: David Leimbach To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163691ff6a61b229049b50b810 Subject: Re: [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely Topicbox-Message-UUID: a8668d48-ead6-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --00163691ff6a61b229049b50b810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 9:50 AM, erik quanstrom wrote: > > Even C has a runtime. Perhaps you should look more into how programming > > languages are implemented :-). C++ has one too, especially in the wake > of > > exceptions and such. > > really? what do you consider to be the c runtime? > i don't think that the asm goo that gets you to main > really counts as "runtime" and neither does the c > library, because neither implement language features. > > How about setting up stack space in the code for an operating system kernel? That's something you don't explicitly write in C that must be there somehow, for example in an operating system kernel. You end up changing that runtime bit and then all your C code has different stack space available. I suppose you could group that into the kernel's runtime, but since the operating system I'm thinking of is coded in C, that kind of line drawing seems silly ;-) I agree that C has a really really minimal need for any "help" to run on raw metal, but some level of support is still necessary. Dave > - erik > > --00163691ff6a61b229049b50b810 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 9:50 AM, erik qua= nstrom <quans= tro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> Even C has a runtime. =A0Perhaps you should look mor= e into how programming
> languages are implemented :-). =A0C++ has one too, especially in the w= ake of
> exceptions and such.

really? =A0what do you consider to be the c runtime?
=
i don't think that the asm goo that get= s you to main
really counts as "runtime" and neither does the c
library, because neither implement language features.


How abo= ut setting up stack space in the code for an operating system kernel? =A0Th= at's something you don't explicitly write in C that must be there s= omehow, for example in an operating system kernel. =A0You end up changing t= hat runtime bit and then all your C code has different stack space availabl= e. =A0I suppose you could group that into the kernel's runtime, but sin= ce the operating system I'm thinking of is coded in C, that kind of lin= e drawing seems silly ;-)

I agree that C has a really really minimal need for any= "help" to run on raw metal, but some level of support is still n= ecessary.

Dave
=A0
- erik


--00163691ff6a61b229049b50b810--