Hi all, Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth of options that have a true middle button these days. I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer. Many thanks in advance! - Ben ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Md800150fac642073f8de2a03 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1675 bytes --] LENOVO SCROLLPOINT MOUSE - USB. I have a few of them. None of mine have ever broken or needed maintenance. Not sure they're made any more, and the IBM logo on this: https://www.exxactcorp.com/Lenovo-31P7405-E1272118 may be indicative, but I've been using mine for 20+ years with great satisfaction. And there is no wheel noise to annoy me. Note that mine has an actual middle button, and although it's hard to see from the picture, the text implies this version does too. It may well be the same. -rob On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:49 PM Ben Hancock <ben@benghancock.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good > mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations > aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be > willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth > of options that have a true middle button these days. > > I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs > that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it > feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently > tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews > that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice > mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer. > > Many thanks in advance! > > - Ben ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mb05750f927503fde55d6e54b Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3248 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1376 bytes --] My daily mouse is a Logitech 3-button mouse plugged into a PS2-USB adapter. Obviously they're not making them anymore but I've managed to acquire a bunch over the years. It's sturdy and works fine. https://www.ebay.com/itm/384628597228 john -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 27, 2022, 7:48 PM, Ben Hancock wrote: > Hi all, > > Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good > mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations > aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be > willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth > of options that have a true middle button these days. > > I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs > that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it > feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently > tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews > that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice > mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer. > > Many thanks in advance! > > - Ben ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Me6267ae93db353cea06eb904 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2546 bytes --]
HP DY651A, e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/234392830458 I bought three of them some ten years ago, and they are still working perfectly. It seems the model is no longer in production. The original price was very low. I seem to recall it was also sold as an IBM mouse. Mark. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mc93adb0e55fe39931ae344cb Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 07:48:15PM -0800, Ben Hancock wrote: > Hi all, > > Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good > mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations > aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be > willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth > of options that have a true middle button these days. > > I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs > that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it > feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently > tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews > that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice > mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer. > > Many thanks in advance! > > - Ben Many of us have had success with the Contour mice, both their soon-discontinued 'Contour' model, available in various sizes, and their 'Unimouse' adjustable model. HP model DY651A is a cheaper option, but it's getting hard to find. The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button. For a portable option, Lenovo sells a convertible 'Yoga' series of wireless mice, which have two mechanical buttons and a touchpad-style scrolling section in between; on all of these that I've tested, tapping the scroll panel sends a middle click, and they support tap-and-hold as you would expect. I haven't tested some of the newer ones, and there's always the danger some product manager got 'creative' instead of just selling a useful product. The Evoluent VerticalMouse series has three mechanical buttons plus a scroll wheel between buttons 1 and 2. Finally, the Logitech G series of gaming mice don't have separate middle click -- they use the wheel for that -- but they frequently have other buttons which can be configured to serve as button 2, and the configuration software writes this setting to the device, so you don't need weird driver support when you plug it into a real computer. khm ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M95055c30e7391c7003c4352f Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 08:39:09PM -0800, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote: > The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made > with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted > Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button. I should specify: the Scrollpoint mouse technically only has two buttons and a round pointing device in between. The Scrollpoint II is the one Rob describes (with either a blue or red oval pointing stick behind a middle mouse button), and it was available in both optical and mechanical configurations. The Scrollpoint Pro ergonomic mouse was also available in both optical and mechanical setups; the mechanical version is absolutely miserable, but the optical version was great. khm ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M8953d5544698cff773fd66cf Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1396 bytes --] I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The label reads 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally) 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all labeled IBM. -rob On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:44 PM Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 08:39:09PM -0800, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote: > > The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made > > with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted > > Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button. > > I should specify: the Scrollpoint mouse technically only has two > buttons and a round pointing device in between. The Scrollpoint II is > the one Rob describes (with either a blue or red oval pointing stick > behind a middle mouse button), and it was available in both optical and > mechanical configurations. The Scrollpoint Pro ergonomic mouse was also > available in both optical and mechanical setups; the mechanical version > is absolutely miserable, but the optical version was great. > > khm > ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M6d8fad991ded1397535b74ee Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2749 bytes --]
Trackballs also often have more than two real buttons. umbraticus ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mba1f4f1caaa4c6c3a0189de1 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Quoth Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>: > > The Evoluent VerticalMouse series has three mechanical buttons plus a > scroll wheel between buttons 1 and 2. This one is my personal favorite. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M12052afc76915c8a1af2a609 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 03:47:48PM +1100, Rob Pike wrote: > I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The > label reads > > 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA > > And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally) > 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all > labeled IBM. > > -rob Lenovo wasn't as much of a stickler for nomenclature as IBM; I ran into all kinds of label variants -- when I worked at IBM I used to snag these when I could. They were also labeled 'ThinkPlus Optical Mouse' for a while, when bundled with a computer. Useful information for keeping them alive can be found here: http://www.ibmfiles.com/pages/scrollpoint.htm khm ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M70eb00c53e8c95e0ad155dc1 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1295 bytes --] It’s pricy, but I love the 3dconnexion CAD mouse [1]. It tracks superbly, and the construction quality approaches Apple’s level. [1] https://3dconnexion.com/us/cadmouse/ > > On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:57 PM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 03:47:48PM +1100, Rob Pike wrote: >> I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The >> label reads >> >> 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA >> >> And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally) >> 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all >> labeled IBM. >> >> -rob > > Lenovo wasn't as much of a stickler for nomenclature as IBM; I ran into > all kinds of label variants -- when I worked at IBM I used to snag these > when I could. They were also labeled 'ThinkPlus Optical Mouse' for a > while, when bundled with a computer. Useful information for keeping > them alive can be found here: http://www.ibmfiles.com/pages/scrollpoint.htm > > khm > ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M1b390a91ac4c2d4c76a848b7 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3082 bytes --]
On 1/27/22 20:47, Rob Pike wrote: > I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. > The label reads > > 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA > > And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally) > 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all > labeled IBM. Thanks very much for the recommendation -- and the extra due diligence! :D I appreciate all the suggestions. Looks like there's some good options floating around out there. I'll see what I can pick up. Cheers, - Ben ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mf5caf0dd8cbb138a41e78aff Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Quoth ori@eigenstate.org: > Quoth Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>: > > > > The Evoluent VerticalMouse series has three mechanical buttons plus a > > scroll wheel between buttons 1 and 2. > > This one is my personal favorite. I have two of these and they're quite good, though quite expensive new. I bought the second one "new, open box" for well under half the then-current new price. My only complaint would be that the wired version isn't massive enough. I plan to weight them down a bit with some plumbum. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mcc4565e3613fc1c9c9abc3f0 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2401 bytes --] Mine says MO09BOA. It has a Lenovo logo and the scroll thingy is lighted blue. It is not a wheel, more like a single axis trackpoint. > On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:47 PM, Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com <mailto:robpike@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The label reads > > 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA > > And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally) 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all labeled IBM. > > -rob > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:44 PM Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net <mailto:9fans@9fans.net>> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 08:39:09PM -0800, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote: > > The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made > > with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted > > Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button. > > I should specify: the Scrollpoint mouse technically only has two > buttons and a round pointing device in between. The Scrollpoint II is > the one Rob describes (with either a blue or red oval pointing stick > behind a middle mouse button), and it was available in both optical and > mechanical configurations. The Scrollpoint Pro ergonomic mouse was also > available in both optical and mechanical setups; the mechanical version > is absolutely miserable, but the optical version was great. > > khm > > > ------------------------------------------ > 9fans: 9fans > Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M8953d5544698cff773fd66cf <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M8953d5544698cff773fd66cf> > Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> > 9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest> / 9fans / see discussions <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription>Permalink <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M6d8fad991ded1397535b74ee> ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M5eb32bc2fbf0376944cbd7f5 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3990 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2233 bytes --] Sorry, yes, it's MO09BOA on mine too. Small print, old eyes. The bottom of my IBM-branded one has the same model number. -rob On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 4:16 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote: > Mine says MO09BOA. It has a Lenovo logo > and the scroll thingy is lighted blue. It is not > a wheel, more like a single axis trackpoint. > > On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:47 PM, Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote: > > I have one mouse still in the original unopened box, just to be safe. The > label reads > > 31P7405 Lenovo Scrollpoint Mouse Model MO098OA > > And I have now opened it to be sure, and it is the true blue (literally) > 3-button version. It is labeled Lenovo, although the ones I use are all > labeled IBM. > > -rob > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:44 PM Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> > wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 08:39:09PM -0800, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote: >> > The Scrollpoint Rob mentioned was made >> > with both IBM and Lenovo branding, and was also available in a sculpted >> > Pro model with a thumb-actuated fourth button. >> >> I should specify: the Scrollpoint mouse technically only has two >> buttons and a round pointing device in between. The Scrollpoint II is >> the one Rob describes (with either a blue or red oval pointing stick >> behind a middle mouse button), and it was available in both optical and >> mechanical configurations. The Scrollpoint Pro ergonomic mouse was also >> available in both optical and mechanical setups; the mechanical version >> is absolutely miserable, but the optical version was great. >> >> khm >> > > *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M5eb32bc2fbf0376944cbd7f5> > ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M61e78b1192f3f29283195d58 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3807 bytes --]
> Trackballs also often have more than two real buttons. > umbraticus The good 3 buttons mouses are vanishing, I've been thinking on giving a try to a trackball for a while. The problem is that the small ones seem to me like a pain to point, and the large ones look like hard to make chords with the big ball in the middle. Could you share your experience? adr. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Md0e53e97477d447dbdd8df36 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
> small ones seem to me like a pain to point, and the large ones look > like hard to make chords with the big ball in the middle. Could you > share your experience? I use a Kensington Expert which I guess falls into the big ball in the middle category. Honestly, most of the time I click/chord with my left hand on the thinkpad's trackpad buttons while rolling the ball with my right hand, but chording with the trackball buttons is also fine. The scrollwheel thing is pretty nice too. umbraticus ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M7e16480b278fcd704279bcb1 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Hello all, I just quickly want to share my experience, although I haven't used any real three buttons mouse in the last ten years. For my laptop system I really love the (older) IBM/lenovo trackpoint. It has three physical buttons below the keyboard and I can reach them easily with my thumbs. I'm sure many of you know this experience. It's a different story on newer lenovo laptops (the ones with the modern keyboard) where the point feels sluggish and tends to drift, which is extremely annoying. Also it's deeper and it doesn't feel like you control the joystick. For my desktop environment I prefer the cheapest usable wired vertical mouse with scrollwheel (20 Euros)[1]. It's almost one of the first search results on amazon and it looks like many brands just use the exact same model from the same (chinese?) manufacturer, although there are slight differences in quality and feel. I can click on the scrollwheel to create a MB2 event, which is fine for me. I have to say I have used blender for years and am using Unreal Engine as a job, so I'm used to using the scrollwheel. The cheap vertical mice usually have two additional buttons at the thumb side in the upper part of the devices. They are mapped to forward/backward, but they're irrelevant for any 9 experience. I also have another wireless vertical mouse where these buttons are in the bottom part. In my experience it's better to have them in the upper part since you grab the mouse for dragging them around while repositioning. However, it's just weird holding the mouse in the air while pressing one of the buttons in the lower part. It's like pushing a button downwards while keeping the device up, against gravity. However, that's just my personal opinion. I barely use the device as I'm mostly in an office-like situation and for mobile the trackpoint has more benefits. sirjofri [1] if you try to get one of these make sure to not get the very cheapest. When I was looking the first I bought was 15 euros and it broke after half a year or so, the next one I got for 20 euros was fine and it's still in use after years. The material is not the best and feels cheap but I guess that's what you get for this price. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M5f61a26523ee9cfea2a32353 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
On Fri, 28 Jan 2022, umbraticus@prosimetrum.com wrote: > I use a Kensington Expert which I guess falls into the big That's funny, it's the very same I was looking at. aliexpress.com/item/1005001848991454.html > The scrollwheel thing is pretty nice too. Three button mice with lateral scrollwheel are even harder to find. That's why I ended up with this cheap one: aliexpress.com/item/4000004785639.html It's not so bad, the plastic feels a little cheaper than one from hp or ibm but cost less than half the price... and it is very accurate, really. It enters sleep mode to save battery (you can't disable this) and the only way to wake it is clicking one of the buttons (not the wheel). Now the funny part: it sends the click to the host. A nightmare. Thanks for the feedback, adr. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mcae193567503385d419fed55 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
I use a big heavy trackball. Kensington pro trackball is pricey but you get four buttons and a scroll ring. Got my first one well over 10 years ago and it’s still my daily driver. I have a second wireless one on a Mac. The wired one is better overall if you can get them. The wireless one can work with a USB dongle (tiny) or Bluetooth. Again, they’re a bit expensive but I love the four quadrant buttons too much and this thing has survived moving across the country a few times with my less than wonderful packing skills. Lots of great advice in this thread though! Good luck! Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 28, 2022, at 3:04 AM, adr <adr@sdf.org> wrote: > > On Fri, 28 Jan 2022, umbraticus@prosimetrum.com wrote: > >> I use a Kensington Expert which I guess falls into the big > > That's funny, it's the very same I was looking at. > > aliexpress.com/item/1005001848991454.html > >> The scrollwheel thing is pretty nice too. > > Three button mice with lateral scrollwheel are even harder to > find. That's why I ended up with this cheap one: > > aliexpress.com/item/4000004785639.html > > It's not so bad, the plastic feels a little cheaper than one from > hp or ibm but cost less than half the price... and it is very > accurate, really. It enters sleep mode to save battery (you can't > disable this) and the only way to wake it is clicking one of the > buttons (not the wheel). Now the funny part: it sends the click to > the host. A nightmare. > > Thanks for the feedback, > adr. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M64be1c26058516ba001c9b4d Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 325 bytes --] I'm very happy with this one: http://www.hao1885.com/products_desc.asp?id=413 Cheers fijal ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mead1ec25401f27e22d96d566 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 932 bytes --]
On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 08:14:44PM +1300, umbraticus@prosimetrum.com wrote: > > small ones seem to me like a pain to point, and the large ones look > > like hard to make chords with the big ball in the middle. Could you > > share your experience? > > I use a Kensington Expert which I guess falls into the big > ball in the middle category. Honestly, most of the time I > click/chord with my left hand on the thinkpad's trackpad > buttons while rolling the ball with my right hand, but > chording with the trackball buttons is also fine. The > scrollwheel thing is pretty nice too. My pointing device on the desktop is an L-TRAC trackball, currently sold by xkeys.com. It's definitely in the 'big ball in the middle' category but the buttons are mostly huge enough to make up for it -- I've never found myself straining to reach anything, but I will admit the extension ports allowing more buttons to be scattered around the desktop is a nice bonus. I don't recommend the LED-lit models, as they're brighter than the goddamn sun, and trackball itself is translucent so it just shines like a beacon. I replaced my ball with a 9-ball to mitigate the glare. khm ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M4d5b713a555327b737f00c15 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
I am a long term sam user and a three button mouse, but I also like the ease of navigation of a scroll wheel. I use a Beatus mouse - three real buttons and a scroll wheel on the side for your thumb. Sadly they are only made right handed and they are a little small for my hand but they are still the best I have found. Google will find them quite easily. -Steve ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M975d2cab770926e40e414642 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 990 bytes --] I've been happy with the Microsoft Bluetooth Mobile Mouse 3600 <https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B016ULQP06/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1>bearing in mind that I'm using 9vx on a Dell as my terminal. I should probably see if it can be made to work on an rpi On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 at 12:45, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote: > I am a long term sam user and a three button mouse, but I also like the > ease of navigation of a scroll wheel. > > I use a Beatus mouse - three real buttons and a scroll wheel on the side > for your thumb. > Sadly they are only made right handed and they are a little small for my > hand but they are still the best > I have found. > > Google will find them quite easily. > > -Steve > ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M73ba293845513288df73c465 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2503 bytes --]
For over a decade I have been using the soon-discontinued Contour mouse. I have tried both the wired and the wireless versions, but the wireless version has too much latency for me, although I am particularly sensitive to latency, so YMMV. I have been using the exact same unit since I got it, it has been very reliable for me, however I know for a fact that the newer versions of the mouse, even though they superficially appear to be the same are not as reliable. They changed the plastic used in some internal shaft and that seems to break quite often. Many of my friends have broken Contour mice that fail in the exact same way. That internal shaft breaks. One friend managed to get hold of a bag of spare shafts. I suspect they could be easily 3D printed, or replaced with a metal shaft. In any case, since Contour announced they discontinued the model, I ordered about 30 mice from retailers that lied about having stock stock. I got three. With these three, I have in total about ten spares, which I hope will last me for a while. -- Aram Hăvărneanu ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M390895ff6f8a7015c13ee272 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 516 bytes --] +1 for the Evoluent Vert mouse. I got two. T On 1/27/2022 at 10:57 PM, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:Quoth Kurt H Maier via 9fans : > > The Evoluent VerticalMouse series has three mechanical buttons plus a > scroll wheel between buttons 1 and 2. This one is my personal favorite. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mf4f1db604b9c92f3b1dae448 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1642 bytes --]
fijal wrote: > I'm very happy with this one: http://www.hao1885.com/products_desc.asp?id=413 That's the same I was talking about. Don't you feel annoyed when you have to wake it? Do you know where to buy the wired model? hao1885.com/products_desc.asp?id=414 ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M301ed10a9c39815211dacdb6 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 340 bytes --] I got used to... No idea about wired model, even this wireless was bought "via" my friend. Hope you'll find one. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M9b3570dba3ca80379438cd84 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 842 bytes --]
search ebay for beatus mouse On 29 Jan 2022, at 1:22 am, adr <adr@sdf.org> wrote: Do you know where to buy the wired model? ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Me3a9d0fbf96e1b424073ffab Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
On Sat, 29 Jan 2022, Steve Simon wrote: > search ebay for beatus mouse Thanks, it's funny the three of us were talking about the same mouse. https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Beatus-Button-Perfect-Buttons-Scroll/dp/B07CZ1B7H3/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3VAGF8O45TNZW https://www.ebay.com/itm/333469354375?epid=9032602165&hash=item4da4528987:g:CwsAAOSwTh1eJWZm ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M5ae5bd309f1514f87fe405ae Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
for a little change of pace, my only desktop input device is https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi it's a fairly faithful recreation of https://support.lenovo.com/solutions/pd005137-thinkpad-usb-keyboard-with-trackpoint-overview but with mechanical keys and other accommodations one expects from a contemporary 'enthusiast' mechanical keyboard. despite the funny look of the mouse buttons (repurposed keycaps), the whole trackpoint setup is very ergonomic and chording works well (albeit requiring both thumbs, but unless you are using the computer one-handed they should already be close by on the spacebar). ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Md3320db314950a73e15c3ddb Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 10:33:38PM +0000, Oleg Finkelshteyn wrote: >for a little change of pace, my only desktop input device is >https://tex.com.tw/products/shinobi Hey, that's neat! I've heard good things about the Shinobi on the MK forums -- I, too, am an enthusiast :) I actually own a couple Thinkpads as well but have yet to become adept at the trackpoint. Do you find you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a physical mouse? ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mb789be2a4196e5b7bfbdd043 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 749 bytes --] On Thu, Jan 27, 2022, at 23:59, Marius Eriksen wrote: > It’s pricy, but I love the 3dconnexion CAD mouse [1]. It tracks superbly, and the construction quality approaches Apple’s level. > > [1] https://3dconnexion.com/us/cadmouse/ I use the wireless model and agree it's an excellent mouse. The shape and buttons are perfect for me. Some caveats, though-- it has a "smart scroll" feature which stimulates inertial scrolling. I have since learned to like it, but initially you will absolutely hate it. David ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Md4c8607e416deeaac0a29051 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1640 bytes --]
On Tue, 1 Feb 2022, at 04:25, Ben Hancock wrote: > Do you find you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a physical mouse? can't really say: i'm not a heavy acme user, and i haven't had a mouse in years. shinobi does feel pretty close to a thinkpad, so you should be able to test with a latter. acme feels comfortable to me in my setup, but you should really check whether you are fine with having to use both thumbs to chord. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mf589a7afdf27dd56da6be881 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
as a trackpoint fanatic i can tell you: no, i can't sweep as easily as with a physical mouse. but if a physical mouse is 10/10, and a smartphone is 1/10, then a touchpad is 3/10 and a trackpoint is 8/10 for my purposes. the only thing that makes this more steep is gaming: there the mouse is much more important, and sometimes reaction times matter, so if physical mouse is still 10/10, the smartphone and touchpad is basically unusable 0/10, the trackpoint 3/10, and the only alternative *still* barely usable, in my books. the only thing excluded here is those ball mice, i never got used to them. On 2/2/22, Oleg Finkelshteyn <olegfink@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, 1 Feb 2022, at 04:25, Ben Hancock wrote: >> Do you find you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with >> a physical mouse? > > can't really say: i'm not a heavy acme user, and i haven't had a mouse in > years. shinobi does feel pretty close to a thinkpad, so you should be able > to test with a latter. > acme feels comfortable to me in my setup, but you should really check > whether you are fine with having to use both thumbs to chord. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M4782f89318341250f138e272 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 375 bytes --] Happy user of the Contour Rollermouse Red which I use with Acme. You can use it two-handed: one hand for cursor movement and one hand for clicking. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Maedb66abd19b574a352f75d3 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 869 bytes --]
On 01/02/2022, Ben Hancock <ben@benghancock.com> wrote: > as well but have yet to become adept at the trackpoint. Do you find > you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a physical > mouse? A trackpoint isn't a real three-button mouse by Acme's standards. "A real three-button mouse" is something that supports one-to-one finger-to-button. A trackpoint is a two-button mouse with an additional scroll button. It's designed for Windows and OS/2. IBM-pattern mice (as in scrollpoint and original ThinkCentre) work for me. The side walls are slightly off from vertical, for dovetailing* into the thumb and outside finger. (Not relevant, but I've never seen it commented on.) I haven't tried anything else. Plus, trackpoint users will often accidentally type 'u', which on Plan 9 means you lose what's in your snarf buffer. For convenience, direct link to a picture of a "dovetail" joint: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Finished_dovetail.jpg/1920px-Finished_dovetail.jpg (since it seems these are named after a different animal in every single language) ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M18ed9c97f727cbf7c93d2d81 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
a trackpoint is a 2-handed chording device. clearly it's limited, but still better than any touchpad (when you are constrained to a laptop on the go) On 3/23/22, Stuart Morrow <morrow.stuart@gmail.com> wrote: > On 01/02/2022, Ben Hancock <ben@benghancock.com> wrote: >> as well but have yet to become adept at the trackpoint. Do you find >> you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a physical >> mouse? > > A trackpoint isn't a real three-button mouse by Acme's standards. "A > real three-button mouse" is something that supports one-to-one > finger-to-button. A trackpoint is a two-button mouse with an > additional scroll button. It's designed for Windows and OS/2. > > IBM-pattern mice (as in scrollpoint and original ThinkCentre) work for > me. The side walls are slightly off from vertical, for dovetailing* > into the thumb and outside finger. (Not relevant, but I've never seen > it commented on.) I haven't tried anything else. > > Plus, trackpoint users will often accidentally type 'u', which on Plan > 9 means you lose what's in your snarf buffer. > > For convenience, direct link to a picture of a "dovetail" joint: > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Finished_dovetail.jpg/1920px-Finished_dovetail.jpg > (since it seems these are named after a different animal in every > single language) ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M02cfae3bd125a7bf0b7e6060 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 11:09:24PM +0000, Stuart Morrow wrote: > On 01/02/2022, Ben Hancock <ben@benghancock.com> wrote: > > as well but have yet to become adept at the trackpoint. Do you find > > you're able to sweep lines as easily using it in acme as with a physical > > mouse? > > A trackpoint isn't a real three-button mouse by Acme's standards. "A > real three-button mouse" is something that supports one-to-one > finger-to-button. A trackpoint is a two-button mouse with an > additional scroll button. It's designed for Windows and OS/2. That scroll button nonsense is a function of the Windows driver. On all Thinkpads the buttons present as a normal three-button mouse, with left, middle, and right-click. Using a better operating system, or failing to install the Trackpoint drivers, leads to normal functionality. This is also true of trackpoint-laden keyboards with the sole exception of the Lenovo "ThinkPad Compact Keyboard with Trackpoint" family of USB/Bluetooth models, and thanks to aiju a firmware fix is available to repair some of those. > Plus, trackpoint users will often accidentally type 'u', which on Plan > 9 means you lose what's in your snarf buffer. I have never seen a trackpoint user accidentally type 'u', and this is coming from someone who has used trackpoints as their primary pointing device from the late 1990s until about six months ago. How exactly did you come to this conclusion? I wonder if this is unique to a particular model? I have at least one of every IBM, Lexmark, or Dolch produced trackpoint keyboard, and I'd love to try to reproduce. khm ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-M3bca6dd44649fb27dfb95fc7 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
> That scroll button nonsense is a function of the Windows driver. On all > Thinkpads the buttons present as a normal three-button mouse, with > left, middle, and right-click. Using a better operating system, or > failing to install the Trackpoint drivers, leads to normal > functionality. I'm aware. I meant the intended use by the people who designed it. I wouldn't call a number pad a pointing device just because it can be used as one. > I have never seen a trackpoint user accidentally type 'u', and this is > coming from someone who has used trackpoints as their primary pointing > device from the late 1990s until about six months ago. How exactly did > you come to this conclusion? I wonder if this is unique to a particular > model? I have at least one of every IBM, Lexmark, or Dolch produced > trackpoint keyboard, and I'd love to try to reproduce. It's just something that happens to some of us sometimes. https://youtu.be/zW-Kwkc13dw?t=904 ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mfeef88144c527c5f97e7177e Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
On Wed, Mar 23, 2022 at 12:00:02AM +0000, Stuart Morrow wrote: > > I'm aware. I meant the intended use by the people who designed it. I > wouldn't call a number pad a pointing device just because it can be > used as one. > Apologies to Ted Selker, but it's a poor tool that only functions in accordance with its designer's intent. I wouldn't call a number pad a pointing device either, but I see no need for a Cardassian "there are two buttons" reality-denial session for a pointing device that clearly has three. To update my previous reply on this thread, the left mouse button of my LTRAC trackball suffered from a failed microswitch. While shopping around for replacement parts I stumbled across a vendor that carries several three-or-more button pointing devices. Content warning for the faint of heart: the following page refers to non-mice as 'mouse products.' https://www.fentek-ind.com/ergmouse.htm And for the record, P.I. Engineering will not sell spare parts for the LTRAC units, but will send you links to Digikey pages to order your own. khm ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Mc7ced772c99a52e354070f70 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription