From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob21.topicbox.com (tb-ob21.topicbox.com [173.228.157.67]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A6923614 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 19:14:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (tb-mx1.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.61]) by tb-ob21.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206952322D for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:14:56 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bounce.mMea8a6ab9c4680234e71712fc.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id C43EEA4794E; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:14:55 -0500 (EST) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=ml3peZq9 header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=michaelmisch1985@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-pl1-f173.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id :list-help:list-id:list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to :list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t=1706206495; bh=O9JyxfOFd+CQnFw3 q1D/y9FaVnQjgiCOMAzDXLMNYwM=; b=R8zigKfl+au8RZk09X3YrnIiNEGyGv/Y kfFZMq+GDdO2vDZWLlMe7kVA7NidX/cevXIKO4YsoT28zh1wRTk3pkcpXUhsW/t2 Uo1h0lweESmWBtXI/nHmrkuwiTshMnrVPEtHSBbaLbFUKadz1sWQhRdHthVhyHkp xZEXlABMBt8= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1706206495; b=L6jg7DweDTEwq7xIJsHD8uz7NMqZsn/TwRV2euFZQ8l5Uef5Jd q6qkxK1qIDGPQD78jdJh2JN1MFCdIEKtgGw5o3m2VYjOcBfafiVK748wVSdtJP+W kayO1qoGUPpxpUKC692vJFwcIWJteHd+Ebgu+gKAPadLI42mDs9DrgOkk= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=ml3peZq9 header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=michaelmisch1985@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-pl1-f173.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=ml3peZq9 header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.214.173 (mail-pl1-f173.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=michaelmisch1985@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-pl1-f173.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=roHi/K9V; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-pl1-f173.google.com policy.ptr=mail-pl1-f173.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h=from :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id:list-help:list-id :list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; t=1706206495; x=1706292895; bh=flNkORiMwvCqTD+zFEDMmoUS1yoxdk0/ FclRIm39yDQ=; b=GcYFqC0FQL3xw1VpDKj7ukh58WIpMKY0V0O1k8bz/p68qV3D gdn8EvLTHUigLv8u/Qm4KcSorEnJPEJpymP+12IMZXLpGdQwaylttj4aYeGcHRV1 iQf/5w26pS9H8PPJnY7JW5R/2eM3vU+aoZ1+fiF4neiyGnx/sX7fnmmyr6M= Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF42A47506 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:14:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from michaelmisch1985@gmail.com) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id 0532220217C; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:14:44 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1706206484; b=cQLCzFyP9ZtEzCPrafLiP24J33o0GNfbftDTj+ssYEOJw+qe6Q DvPAaBsUlyhecaBRjWzEMyji4Z7PnSI1rnIZQouipXwcaqTDM6YGQ+Xz8oGqbn7Y mVHgbviejxIsEmF4YFjFo4llANSCv9B6YzW4c2zvxEJrJoXmkE6dk5Shje2sppJY Ebw5wNH4D0AJKCEGNF6lkP0tT4FsFSHeOiAg3gMyw6THWLtROYFxMfa/bODKIufM A07xnsY68Gjc+U7iilJim78lalpf+cls8xKgbVmZQ6FHZX/YnnqRhOUHyuEhF66L GpNsuNSwGPf930gSQomnvQnaO5jUSI5oVjTA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; s=arcseal; t=1706206484; bh=l0jHRpJOdvISXWclbPl1Dp0/0CFa2NTEPRO gsi+kuEE=; b=ZT19aI0cuDZBwgs48lhB3N0clTHZQgzYLhRxCNmrFirRmJPdjyT dj2laUfS8M40M7JHWyUVOXJ+5Lh9h4XMumX/wRfjYe/+ut1U2DVKGd6qO7igZvak nj+u9H/lM+m16aAV+izKhuTuueqAWHCiJVXznxdjPkP0TwoSMk6Ec3jDcGE9Xwxr KN/D2cubC9iJjvKZtC2Fnuo8G6W2v0OjPLA94Qpbky1YR8ySbaWPCHv/ozjvG7D8 y0YmK+lsmNFTeB0HnCjI0NONuVUezs6xCPLxV5NiCi0JfAd6+p7e1sYTBiVvXvGZ ntZRYQ0EWul7NSs5IyjLIjIn01UScj3w4vQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=ml3peZq9 header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.214.173 (mail-pl1-f173.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=michaelmisch1985@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-pl1-f173.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=roHi/K9V; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-pl1-f173.google.com policy.ptr=mail-pl1-f173.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrvdelhedgudekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhtgfggg fuffhfvfgjkffosehtqhhmtdhhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpefoihgthhgrvghlucfoihhstghh uceomhhitghhrggvlhhmihhstghhudelkeehsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpefhgfefteeugeeggfdugfevleetueetvefhvddutefgudeguefftefgtddu gffhieenucffohhmrghinhepthhophhitggsohigrdgtohhmnecukfhppedvtdelrdekhe drvddugedrudejfedpudejgedrgedrfeekrddvudehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgep tdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvthepvddtledrkeehrddvudegrddujeefpdhhvghlohepmh grihhlqdhplhduqdhfudejfedrghhoohhglhgvrdgtohhmpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoehm ihgthhgrvghlmhhishgthhduleekheesghhmrghilhdrtghomheq X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'michaelmisch1985@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx1.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="michaelmisch1985@gmail.com"; helo=mail-pl1-f173.google.com; client-ip=209.85.214.173 Received: from mail-pl1-f173.google.com (mail-pl1-f173.google.com [209.85.214.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:14:44 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from michaelmisch1985@gmail.com) Received: by mail-pl1-f173.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-1d731314e67so28518185ad.1 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 10:14:44 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706206483; x=1706811283; h=message-id:in-reply-to:to:references:date:subject:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=l0jHRpJOdvISXWclbPl1Dp0/0CFa2NTEPROgsi+kuEE=; b=roHi/K9VLh8buqUSntIGwkMWUZ+q1Hq/KLI8bERwpWYPj1qRVTKecZYhvAnSvb8x+p 4oi5tifMZ1GCUfupXSgP/LU4NKLTNCN8eTgxfhnCotGRqun1DviJil45ds8rW8Lm/jfj LbALy12/zRO6OBagKzTMLX/7w3Gq6dMz++Wy8fSP6bJp5dkJcit813t9AxaklQ5jCyZq gUtgqKaLITg348czv7Ql6H2niaw+4649SVzzb0wK8ivuCFqvBMgSlq6kVYQFvuWQRVss 5mLi55agbSue7HNgUPbLdSEgIuPIIsMGtbQRMl5s9SFYz/2phuQYX+He4Ihs0Eg7Jtif 9/Vw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxxa+EKA+OF27hiMAEKizS70NFLeNK28e7ub3A10ajNFWlGDP8C MyQikAjBTNAcLsxpEleSHYBTJqcEqN92dUBC15POw/YbErtR+yOxxKQMWK6r X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGX1aPV2cBW3lm3vidpmFQkREt43z98LiPDKdDsON8FBxaYYalZzcoWsMVoGrY647hUm6JXdw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:120f:b0:1d7:4f6:931b with SMTP id l15-20020a170903120f00b001d704f6931bmr94193plh.18.1706206482936; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 10:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (S01061c61b46a6af1.ok.shawcable.net. [174.4.38.215]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g8-20020a170902f74800b001d743463bb5sm7591275plw.150.2024.01.25.10.14.41 for <9fans@9fans.net> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Jan 2024 10:14:42 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Misch X-Google-Original-From: Michael Misch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.400.31\)) Subject: Re: Charting the Future: Envisioning Plan 9 Release 5 for the 9fans Community. [Was:Re: [9fans] Supported Notebooks] Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 10:14:30 -0800 References: <0effcc39-7b03-4a1c-af30-36ffc6d97e2a@app.fastmail.com> To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.400.31) Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: a0b02828-bbad-11ee-a638-a7f6feb7fc80 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UNDJmMTFlMDI2NWJjZmExOC1NZWE4YTZhYjljNDY4MDIzNGU3MTcx?= =?UTF-8?B?MmZjPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Mea8a6ab9c4680234e71712fc:1:viaptwrBHa6YqAGAVj0omMZa6D72iiws5R8AKHvlVqs This is incredibly rude and tone-deaf. Your convictions aside, dismissing a= n opinion like this is simply stonewalling, and quite frankly obliterated w= hatever respect I may have started to develop for you.=20 > On Jan 25, 2024, at 08:44, Don Bailey wrote: >=20 > I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.=20 >=20 > If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 altogether. Both = as a user and a developer.=20 >=20 > I trust the sources that come from 9legacy/9pio but I don't have any inte= rest in the mess of whatever 9front is supposed to be.=20 >=20 > D >=20 > On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 11:40=E2=80=AFAM hiro via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>= wrote: > > I am not a fan of the weird 9front split from the standard repo. I=E2= =80=99d prefer the sources to be managed by the foundation and would like t= o only receive patches through them. >=20 > Are you speaking as part of the foundation? As a developer? Or as a User? >=20 > Me, as a user, I would also appreciate if the foundation (or the real > bell-labs unix room heritage, before the foundation existed) would > "manage" something. for example development and continuous hosting of > the sources server. This doesn't seem to be the case. >=20 > I also would appreciate the making available of patches by the > foundation. I have no clue where their codebase is moving in the last > few years as there was no single commit (or even simple patch via > email) received from them. >=20 > I think the reason the 9front repo is continuing to stay split "off" > is because the bell-labs servers have all been shut down. As a result > the community has stepped in to donate their own time, money, server > resources, sweat and blood, etc. to keep a usable plan 9 version and > community (that is willing to stay patches) alive. >=20 > It is extremely unfortunate, but the pressure behind the freely > contributed code ended up being stronger than the ability to negotiate > with the empty halls of bell-labs. So as a result lots of community > members are able to contribute quite effectively. >=20 > To me the legend of what must have been the unix room will always stay > alive, and I will continue to use it as a benchmark to measure my own > team's success against. But if I cannot be part of the group of cool > kids that came out of this, I can at least have my own bell-labs, with > blackjack and hookers. In my head. >=20 > Don, I wish you great technical collaborations. At least this is what > I have came here for, and have tried to take what caused awe in me and > keep them alive and infect others with all that. Maybe you can submit > another patch to sources some day soon. >=20 > hiro > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permali= nk ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18-Mea8a6= ab9c4680234e71712fc Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription