From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 27888 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2022 21:27:00 -0000 Received: from tb-ob0.topicbox.com (64.147.108.117) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Jan 2022 21:27:00 -0000 Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA7E1F380 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:26:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bounce.mM3c9ced3c7ccb25fd4918537c.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id 7C27214291FF; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:26:59 -0500 (EST) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=iitbombay-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@iitbombay-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b=IeTUcNfR header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=iitbombay.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=bakul@iitbombay.org smtp.helo=mail-oi1-f174.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (body has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=from:content-type:mime-version:subject:date :references:to:in-reply-to:message-id:list-help:list-id :list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t=1643405219; bh=/VmFAh5yorPS8o7N xz7EVUQLWR1vMKTJQCSGhjpJBe0=; b=P1KNneI7EBmvGEQlxe6NOTYz6jCb7u6x NVw+Uit8F+x91ltXNfTcFz77aNul6+ftAfdA8DlY8AQKdTBOZt7FPnhTW1v/qYeS oqZgCD2BQ9zRGykbsIFeDJCojZQKgH8MxvYibwhYl2Yh7qhvhPz6A9NS2kNPLxVB wUv2ri4pH0A= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1643405219; b=YN8j5DymCzBCqYzO5BsPSCMLewgqjVJo4jiol4wG51blhMzvqY 98LtVDtbxJketAzf8Vjf6rdcH6cdHAZwUS5Dt3jhqWpm2m/w/h5qqWu0KUoL4w6U VY20rQGN23OpyVhDFlgRZlkNjAzzIvgH3QosPnf1lCk8A+9p6Q2uMTfs4= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=iitbombay-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@iitbombay-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b=IeTUcNfR header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=iitbombay.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=bakul@iitbombay.org smtp.helo=mail-oi1-f174.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (body has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC did not pass); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=iitbombay-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@iitbombay-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b=IeTUcNfR header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=iitbombay.org; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.167.174 (mail-oi1-f174.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=bakul@iitbombay.org smtp.helo=mail-oi1-f174.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=IAQd3jh3; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-oi1-f174.google.com policy.ptr=mail-oi1-f174.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=iitbombay.org policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,alt3.aspmx.l.google.com,alt4.aspmx.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=iitbombay.org policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,alt3.aspmx.l.google.com,alt4.aspmx.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h=from :content-type:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id:list-help:list-id:list-post :list-subscribe:reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; bh=n5NeyUk4o86cg+nPhzEX9duakDMPSUss P3UP9yU5hiw=; b=P0v9kp4RDzDLK+q21bqasEETBlrDqmF/KI3yhNCHDH2SGogN tn64PssTOEu3u3QK5qVOQ9xWsgFIrxoMl4deTPH4Q/V2aRf3kTu9m50S74ujwfjv Xl702S9ERaisxHyGDjatXpzjkg0dIcNFowfX8DNBLPyG6DOjKz87DIJ6Cb4= Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FD70FC6A36 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:26:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bakul@iitbombay.org) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id 74E66CCE4EC; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:26:47 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1643405207; b=ecBFHseqnFovxzlfO2zff/8VjT93y6OMSrxng5BX/H4amajNDL lig3eI5zj7lnSiptPCC4m8BO+zzqxRhqsTj3tRyzo7R6hAOX4zhEJE0qR/duaPyy xhrSrEUkBj7WNBUKZzkRWjAZ8HKA7dbkT8KeFZdzUt66MGi+DI6H4dlLp8AOCtzK JcHqQvY1vb63IKZBz5KMHv0WE1O/Wrbqtls1cXtHgBRUYPjnM3plo3eIakbWB3H1 1HcdZS4AwuZRv1od+HsoIX2ksZLR3AE1U9odUhLz1kyydiSLcdS/4PWJ6SxKP/n2 7ACnuPEGq7aoaCg8h4mposB7PWOF/uoScrjw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=from:content-type:mime-version:subject:date :references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; s=arcseal; t=1643405207; bh=EvOCfzK2YLPLPngiKVswED5L2Mo0Ac7EwgqFs6I26e8=; b=t/XMIWgbNzl4 lEq+2713g7AWVgJ8yoQxZyBQ/NaMoxb8jRF+ygKuhpA3T7CMcrvPFpLZdrR6hU4G aFFuVD3OGTo7S1xFHSunDWKgXuxNjoAOMvB76u0P9Zz4fbNpU325mTOWPY1B382N g9CJFehCrDXZTgp8v6GJjrldByJXcImEyxtlFlZiRPvIcJH2DxvORGzuLsoi2mDs MlEGHxlgU/MZfZ4dr18p2rhJa0NQqMVxbZ5JSBvECuu8Rnm+A39baiKjy0eylX+G sZI7htV6gzh7Hrx2+JXGUPSRj0p5OtPswAdZozcnN7Bq+mJdZvk8BcSKGn/UDoK4 84zhq3YbgA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC did not pass); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=iitbombay-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@iitbombay-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b=IeTUcNfR header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=iitbombay.org; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.167.174 (mail-oi1-f174.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=bakul@iitbombay.org smtp.helo=mail-oi1-f174.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=IAQd3jh3; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-oi1-f174.google.com policy.ptr=mail-oi1-f174.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=iitbombay.org policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,alt3.aspmx.l.google.com,alt4.aspmx.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=iitbombay.org policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,alt3.aspmx.l.google.com,alt4.aspmx.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvvddrfeehucdltddurdegudehrddttddmucetuf doteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgs shgtrhhisggvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenuc fjughrpefhtggguffffhfvjgfkofesrgdtmherhhdtvdenucfhrhhomhepuegrkhhulhcu ufhhrghhuceosggrkhhulhesihhithgsohhmsggrhidrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvg hrnhepkefhffdujedvjeejkeehvdetvdelgfeiudehjeeltdfggffhfffgteduvdevleff necuffhomhgrihhnpeihohhrkhdrrggtrdhukhdpohhlihhmvgigrdgtohhmpdhtohhpih gtsghogidrtghomhenucfkphepvddtledrkeehrdduieejrddujeegpddutdejrddvudeh rddvvdefrddvvdelnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvth epvddtledrkeehrdduieejrddujeegpdhhvghlohepmhgrihhlqdhoihduqdhfudejgedr ghhoohhglhgvrdgtohhmpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoegsrghkuhhlsehiihhtsghomhgsrg ihrdhorhhgqe X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (iitbombay.org: Sender is authorized to use 'bakul@iitbombay.org' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_spf.google.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx1.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="bakul@iitbombay.org"; helo=mail-oi1-f174.google.com; client-ip=209.85.167.174 Received: from mail-oi1-f174.google.com (mail-oi1-f174.google.com [209.85.167.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:26:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bakul@iitbombay.org) Received: by mail-oi1-f174.google.com with SMTP id s127so14854081oig.2 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 13:26:46 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=EvOCfzK2YLPLPngiKVswED5L2Mo0Ac7EwgqFs6I26e8=; b=IAQd3jh3Zgu9lLbi0y7M7pDxzBQI/MhxGYnwMYkuiNKwjHox7sAK42wylGkN1/HGuY y2Wr+ph5ZWVU1KD8r3RqiMcNgH7g244SEd7IH++3H97TEdipus/M0hXiBDl48j47FMt6 38MwqxoW3reohOZxWh1998Ztn3cjs6sPaLFbte6GR1Z8fJqrfVIzeBJoSpLwU/TMVcMG +HEMJPZVw7gI0huQjV1cjkssGvqtsygkfnGQ5yXCFMoStY8X13Xtkym5YMexbdF7mbgl 5I1LViu481ONmAGUWYgz0VAyROGzZCpwOKSMIJkByVl4Np6mQG8UBySWN22ckpp6+Wrh 6ouw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530HvfHcft1u1i8iio7I4dS6Md0qV47oCz4sFz4OaEjm/CVXH63n nMf0YCpt4XKxiIkHtZAm/HCgcFcY9+YPCQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxXzVhA541mWIMeLckDZ9tLmm4M7HwQl53XngiMJWMpuijGn1GfZM2zI3/fic7u70DOU4Ggzw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:211f:: with SMTP id r31mr6345385oiw.194.1643405205931; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 13:26:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (107-215-223-229.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q18sm4341941otf.54.2022.01.28.13.26.44 for <9fans@9fans.net> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Jan 2022 13:26:45 -0800 (PST) From: Bakul Shah Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E8D88D70-04C8-43E2-993B-C88E1F817A4E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.60.0.1.1\)) Subject: Re: [9fans] building blocks speaking 9p Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 13:26:44 -0800 References: <0BE79FA8-7FB4-4755-9A92-122A48E9F5D0@iitbombay.org> To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.60.0.1.1) Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 025a8448-8081-11ec-b66a-83141805bbdd Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYTRlNTg0YTM3M2IwNTU1My1NM2M5Y2VkM2M3Y2NiMjVmZDQ5MTg1?= =?UTF-8?B?MzdjPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M3c9ced3c7ccb25fd4918537c:1:rvLGZJR45IH1DEK-nLl8tYxnHovftTfHpMhmNVIQsaM --Apple-Mail=_E8D88D70-04C8-43E2-993B-C88E1F817A4E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks! Quite an interesting paper. I vaguely recall reading this a long time ago.=20 I think the key will be to figure out how to make this a very easy to use component. It is not rocket science but will probably require a few iterations to smooth out any rough edges and to see what evolves. Good to see there is interest in the community! > On Jan 28, 2022, at 11:01 AM, Charles Forsyth = wrote: >=20 > https://www.cs.york.ac.uk/rts/static/papers/R:N.C.:Audsley:2006.pdf might be o= f interest. >=20 > They turned up at an embedded systems show at Birmingham NEC about that t= ime. > I was attending independently, but it was interesting to see,. > Wandering about some boring other stands, I found one that was showing of= f a small embedded device running a remarkable system. > There was source code on the screen. > "Hmm", I asked, "what's the language it's running?" > Lars Bok [for it was he], proudly, "It is SmallTalk!" in 64k [I think] on= a micro with a real-time garbage collector and in-service code updating on= the fly. > Just fantastic. We bemoaned the boring nature of most of the stands. I me= ntioned Styx-on-a-Chip and he wandered off to have a look, returning to say= it was also interesting. > I forget the name of the system, but eventually the company was sold on o= r got different investors in, who turned it into a Java thing. As usual. >=20 > On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 at 10:18, Lucio De Re > wrote: > On 1/28/22, Bakul Shah >= wrote: > > > > Think of really simple, low power, low cost devices. > > USB can also provide power. USB+ATtiny85 devel boards > > cost ~$3 even at Amazon. And FPGA boards can be > > pretty inexpensive too. If you can find them. > > > I've recommended olimex.com in the past. They specia= lise in Open > Architecture Hardware. Their prices are very reasonable and product > range quite broad. >=20 > Lucio. >=20 > ------------------------------------------ > 9fans: 9fans > Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta4e584a373b05553-M849= 56412e025f5666616e7cd > Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery=C2=A0options Permalink ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta4e584a373b05553-M3c9ce= d3c7ccb25fd4918537c Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --Apple-Mail=_E8D88D70-04C8-43E2-993B-C88E1F817A4E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Thanks! Q= uite an interesting paper. I vaguely recall reading
this a l= ong time ago. 

I= think the key will be to figure out how to make this a very
easy to use component. It is not rocket science but will
probably require a few iterations to smooth out any rough
edges and to see what evolves.

Good to see there is interest in the communit= y!

=
On Jan 28, 2022, at 11= :01 AM, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.cs.york.ac.uk/rts/static/papers/R:N.C.:Audsley:2006.pdf= might be of interest.

They turned up at an embedded systems show= at Birmingham NEC about that time.
I was attending in= dependently, but it was interesting to see,.
Wandering= about some boring other stands, I found one that was showing off a small e= mbedded device running a remarkable system.
There was = source code on the screen.
"Hmm", I ask= ed, "what's the language it's running?"
Lars Bok [for it was he], proudly, "It is SmallTalk!" in 64= k [I think] on a micro with a real-time garbage collector and in-service co= de updating on the fly.
Just fantastic. We bemoaned th= e boring nature of most of the stands. I mentioned Styx-on-a-Chip and he wa= ndered off to have a look, returning to say it was also interesting.
<= div class=3D"">I forget the name of the system, but eventually the company = was sold on or got different investors in, who turned it into a Java thing.= As usual.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 at 10:18, Lucio De Re <= lucio.dere@gmail.com= > wrote:
On 1/28/22, Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>
> Think of really simple, low power, low cost devices.
> USB can also provide power. USB+ATtiny85 devel boards
> cost ~$3 even at Amazon. And FPGA boards can be
> pretty inexpensive too. If you can find them.
>
I've recommended olimex.com in the past. They specialise in Ope= n
Architecture Hardware. Their prices are very reasonable and product
range quite broad.

Lucio.

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta4e584a373b05553-M84956412e02= 5f5666616e7cd
Delivery options: https://9fans.topic= box.com/groups/9fans/subscription

= --Apple-Mail=_E8D88D70-04C8-43E2-993B-C88E1F817A4E--