From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <39dfebd1c4a2b418969b09c701998fc3@ladd.quanstro.net> References: <201104271759.08417.dexen.devries@gmail.com> <39dfebd1c4a2b418969b09c701998fc3@ladd.quanstro.net> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:08:27 +0200 Message-ID: From: Gabriel Diaz To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] localization Topicbox-Message-UUID: d68941d4-ead6-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 Hello We install operating systems in English. Spanish / Catalan localized systems are a source of problems like: * error messages do not reflect was going on in Spanish but it does in English, and in some cases it can mislead the user, jumping to a wrong conclusion * translations are often outdated, referring to things not present in the system anymore * applications do not always use the localization engine of the system, so you end with multiple languages and localization implementations, grep-ing though a localized log file is painfull if you must deal with more than one language (and can lead you to use error codes) * jargon is usually translated and used in strange way at best, also the 'false friends' words are difficult to handle in an automated way I would prefer to have a system completely in English but polished, instead of a badly or half translated system. "La memoria no se puede 'written'" is a common windows error, which shows the kind of problems they found. slds. gabi On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 6:14 PM, erik quanstrom wro= te: > !/bin/upas/marshal -s 'Re: [9fans] localization' -R /mail/fs/mbox/3100 9f= ans@9fans.net > On Wed Apr 27 12:04:56 EDT 2011, dexen.devries@gmail.com wrote: >> browsing through uriel's slides from fosdem 2006 [1], i see him mention = Plan 9 >> lacks localization. what are this lists feelings on localization (both >> translation of strings and formatting of numbers, time etc.) of user-fac= ing >> applications? > > it's not the implementation that bothers me so much as the > theory of operation. =A0command-line utilities are localized s.t. > it becomes necessary to fiddle with the locale if you want to > parse the output. =A0but then you can't present this as localized > output yourself easily. =A0localization can go as far as changing the set > of digits, or even the default numbering base! =A0they also don't > choose a character set. =A0shell scripting becomes impossible. > > i realize no localization makes life difficult for folks who speak greek. > it would be interesting to hear from a non-native english speaker > on if they think dealing with the computer in english is something > that can be done once and then forgotten, and if this is less work > than dealing with the tower of locale. > > it would be interesting to hear ideas on this. =A0it's a hard problem. > > - erik > >