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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-02-03 15:07     ` Ethan Gardener
@ 2021-01-19 11:08       ` pouya+lists.9fans
  2021-02-03 18:58         ` Ethan Gardener
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: pouya+lists.9fans @ 2021-01-19 11:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[eekee57@fastmail.fm]
> I specifically say "more popular" because popularity affects the
number of developers available.

Off-topic and perhaps unpopular view, but I *like* the fact that Plan
9 is not (significantly) more popular.  Popularity has ruined many a
promising creation.

Although please do not take this to mean that I don't value all the
work that has been going into developing the community and continuing
to evolve and move forward.  Luddites like me also greatly benefit
from it.

Pouya


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* [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021
@ 2021-01-29 19:23 Anthony Sorace
  2021-02-01  0:31 ` ~vidak
                   ` (4 more replies)
  0 siblings, 5 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Anthony Sorace @ 2021-01-29 19:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, inferno-os, plan9port-dev; +Cc: plan9-gsoc

Hello! After a few years away, we’ll be applying to Google’s Summer of Code program again this year.

Summer of Code is a program Google runs where they fund students to work with mentors from open source organizations. The primary purpose of the program is to help students work with real-world open source projects, with the hopes of creating long-term contributors to open source software. You can read more about the program on Google’s [GSoC] site.

We have participated in GSoC several years in the past, and get a bit better at it every year. We've had a lot of positive experiences for both students and mentors over the years. Applications (for both organizations and students) are competitive and there is no guarantee we'll get in, but I'm hopeful. We'll again be acting as an "umbrella organization" for Plan 9 and related technologies, so whether you'd like to work with Plan 9, Inferno, plan9ports, or anything else related, we're open to the project.

Applications for organizations just opened, and we’re working on this year’s application now. There are three things we’re asking the community for:

1. Project ideas. One of the key parts of the application is the project ideas page. If you’ve got ideas that seem like they’d be a good fit for the program, and *especially* if you’re up for mentoring them, please think about how to describe them in sufficient detail for a student to work on (objectives, promising starting points, likely challenges, &c).
2. Students. If you are a qualifying student, please consider applying! If you know students, and especially if you’re in an academic setting yourself, please encourage students to apply. If we get in, the number of students we’ll get to work with is determined in part by how many apply to work with us, so if you can get prospective students excited about spending part of their summer on Plan 9, that’s really helpful. Also, GSoC is a very good program for students generally and a wide variety of open source projects participate, so most folks with a technical bent can find something of interest. 
3. Mentors. If you’ve been working with Plan 9 or related technologies for a while, would be excited to help new folks get into it, and have time for mentoring a student over the summer, please get in touch.

We’ll have more to say about these, especially where we’re collecting and sharing the project ideas and prospective mentors, in the next few days. For now, start thinking about projects and talking to students.

For those of you familiar with the program from previous years, there have been a few changes. Most notably, starting this year the expectation is no longer that students be working mostly full-time on their GSoC project during the summer. This broadens the pool of applicants significantly, but also changes the size of projects. The expectation this year is that students work on a 175-hour project over the course of 10 weeks. Google has also broadened the types of students who can apply. You can find more information about the changes on Google’s blog post about the [changes].

I'm excited to be applying to this again. If nothing else, it's just fun to get to talk to a bunch of new folks about this all. Look for more info in the next few days.

Your friendly neighborhood org admin,
Anthony


[GSoC]:         https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com

[changes]:              https://opensource.googleblog.com/2020/10/google-summer-of-code-2021-is-bringing.html

[stats]:                        https://opensource.googleblog.com/2020/08/google-summer-of-code-2020-statistics.html

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* Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021
  2021-01-29 19:23 [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 Anthony Sorace
@ 2021-02-01  0:31 ` ~vidak
  2021-02-01  9:35   ` sirjofri
  2021-02-01 11:26   ` Bakul Shah
  2021-02-01  7:16 ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) cigar562hfsp952fans
                   ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: ~vidak @ 2021-02-01  0:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Anthony Sorace; +Cc: 9fans, inferno-os, plan9port-dev, plan9-gsoc

Hey!

I am currently a computer science undergrad, and I have a project
idea. Me and a few friends from the fediverse were thinking of
implementing the ActivityPub protocol (mastodon/pleroma) into plan9 as a
kind of 'social file system', or 'socialfs'.

The idea, as I take it, would be to introduce a limited form of
hypertext into the plan9 distributed filesystem. It would also allow
access into a somewhat mature free software social network.

There are various languages we were thinking of doing the implementation
in, ultimately some flavour of scheme. Perhaps one that could compile to
C.

This is my/our little project suggestion/idea anyway!

~vidak

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* [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-01-29 19:23 [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 Anthony Sorace
  2021-02-01  0:31 ` ~vidak
@ 2021-02-01  7:16 ` cigar562hfsp952fans
  2021-02-01 20:46   ` Steve Simon
                     ` (5 more replies)
  2021-02-02  5:30 ` [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 ori
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 6 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: cigar562hfsp952fans @ 2021-02-01  7:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> writes:

> Hello! After a few years away, we’ll be applying to Google’s Summer of Code program again this year.

...

> 1. Project ideas. One of the key parts of the application is the
> project ideas page. If you’ve got ideas that seem like they’d be a

Plan 9-related:

(1) Porting the Plan 9 kernel to a microkernel architecture, such as
    Mach.  This would give Plan 9 instant access to the whole range of
    hardware supported by the underlying microkernel.

(2) A Zoom/video conferencing application for Plan 9.  Enough said.  :)

(3) Happauge/Brooktree BTTV/video capture drivers.  AFAIK, Plan 9 can
    only use USB Web cams.

(4) Port SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy) tools as a Plan 9 file system.
    That would give Plan 9 instant access to a huge range of flatbed &
    sheet-fed document scanners.

(5) An NFS sever for Plan 9.  Unix machines have a lot of trouble
    handling edge cases encountered on 9P filesystems (such as the
    number of hard links to directories).  An NFS server would make it
    much easier for Unix/Linux and Plan 9 to get along happily.

(6) Incorporating Inferno's Dis virtual machine into the Plan 9 kernel,
    so Plan 9 can run Dis binaries natively, without having to run the
    Inferno emulator (emu) as a user process.

Inferno-related:

(A) A 64-bit version of Dis, which was designed as a 32-bit (31-bit?)
    architecture.

(B) Porting Inferno to modern video game consoles, such as the Nintendo
    Switch family.  Coolness.

(C) Creating a secure version of Dis.  The way that Dis handles
    allocated/freed memory isn't particularly safe, and can leak
    sensitive data (such as encryption keys).  It doesn't have a way to
    whiten memory, or to mark ranges of memory as non-swappable.  This
    could be done by adding new VM instructions, or on a per-module
    basis by adding new module flags.

(D) Porting Nemo/LSUB's "OSHAD" to Plan 9.  OSHAD is an authentication
    system (implemented in Inferno) which allows you to provide
    passwords or acknowledge actions from a separate, wireless hand-held
    device.

(E) A postscript/PDF viewer for Inferno.  Enough said.  :)

Android-related:

(a) An Android "app" that presents an Android phone's telephone and SMS
    messaging facilities as a 9P filesystem.  This would enable Plan 9
    and Inferno applications to place/receive voice calls and
    send/receive text messages across a network.  This could be done by
    extending bhgv's existing Android port of Inferno, or as a
    separtate, stand-alone server app.

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* Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021
  2021-02-01  0:31 ` ~vidak
@ 2021-02-01  9:35   ` sirjofri
  2021-02-01 11:07     ` svaderaa
  2021-02-01 11:26   ` Bakul Shah
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-02-01  9:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Hello ~vidak,

Quoth ~vidak <vidak@riseup.net>:
> I am currently a computer science undergrad, and I have a project
> idea. Me and a few friends from the fediverse were thinking of
> implementing the ActivityPub protocol (mastodon/pleroma) into plan9 as a
> kind of 'social file system', or 'socialfs'.

Iirc there's someone writing an ActivityPub/mastodon client for 9.  I
think it was julienxx²?  Maybe check it out?

> The idea, as I take it, would be to introduce a limited form of
> hypertext into the plan9 distributed filesystem. It would also allow
> access into a somewhat mature free software social network.

I've written my bachelor thesis¹ about a potential hypermedia system
for Plan 9.  I can send it to you as a private message if you are
interested in it.  It's not specific to social networks, but there
might be interesting ideas.  I also mentioned other interesting
filesystem stuff like LisFS (which provides some nice search
functionality based on filesystems and regular expressions).

> There are various languages we were thinking of doing the implementation
> in, ultimately some flavour of scheme. Perhaps one that could compile to
> C.

I ♥ C, but I don't have to decide anything here.

sirjofri

—————
¹ I plan to publish the thesis when I'm done studying, which will be
  in march.  Until then I can't really publish it.
² julienxx is on mastodon: @julienxx@fedi.9til.de

.

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* Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021
  2021-02-01  9:35   ` sirjofri
@ 2021-02-01 11:07     ` svaderaa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: svaderaa @ 2021-02-01 11:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 833 bytes --]

This has been my dream for the past year, I am a  student(36yrs) , coming to programming after a 20year break , I was a musician for the last 6 years. I have a diploma in C from when I was 13 , other than that I'm drop out, so no Uni Degree(just a diploma in Biotech). Though I had a dream of creating an open source formally verified Linear algebra library for plan 9 , I joined the LAFF courses on edx , and though I'm early into them , I'm doing well . I don't know if I will be able to join / be accepted as a student  Google’s Summer of Code program. But this would really be a dream come true!

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* Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021
  2021-02-01  0:31 ` ~vidak
  2021-02-01  9:35   ` sirjofri
@ 2021-02-01 11:26   ` Bakul Shah
  2021-02-02  1:15     ` raingloom
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2021-02-01 11:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans; +Cc: Anthony Sorace, inferno-os, plan9port-dev, plan9-gsoc

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 969 bytes --]

 On Jan 31, 2021, at 4:36 PM, ~vidak <vidak@riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> There are various languages we were thinking of doing the implementation
> in, ultimately some flavour of scheme. Perhaps one that could compile to
> C.

There is Nils Holm’s s9fes Scheme. It is strictly an interpreter but easy to extend
with C code. See https://github.com/bakul/s9fes. I had added some support for
plan9 specific syscalls — more may be needed depending on what you want to do.

Chibi-Scheme supposedly works on plan9 though I haven’t played with it in years.

I imagine by socialFS you want to see your connections, posts, feeds, likes etc.
as files or directories? Everything but the actual content display? Sounds like a
fun project!
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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-02-01  7:16 ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) cigar562hfsp952fans
@ 2021-02-01 20:46   ` Steve Simon
  2021-02-03 14:14     ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-02-01 21:47   ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas sirjofri
                     ` (4 subsequent siblings)
  5 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Steve Simon @ 2021-02-01 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


someone at the land (peter bosch?) dis a haupage video capture card.

i am pretty sure i have a copy of the driver and user level app somewhere.

this worked on an old pci card i had at one time.

-Steve


On 1 Feb 2021, at 8:32 pm, cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org wrote:

Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> writes:

> Hello! After a few years away, we’ll be applying to Google’s Summer of Code program again this year.

...

> 1. Project ideas. One of the key parts of the application is the
> project ideas page. If you’ve got ideas that seem like they’d be a

Plan 9-related:

(1) Porting the Plan 9 kernel to a microkernel architecture, such as
   Mach.  This would give Plan 9 instant access to the whole range of
   hardware supported by the underlying microkernel.

(2) A Zoom/video conferencing application for Plan 9.  Enough said.  :)

(3) Happauge/Brooktree BTTV/video capture drivers.  AFAIK, Plan 9 can
   only use USB Web cams.

(4) Port SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy) tools as a Plan 9 file system.
   That would give Plan 9 instant access to a huge range of flatbed &
   sheet-fed document scanners.

(5) An NFS sever for Plan 9.  Unix machines have a lot of trouble
   handling edge cases encountered on 9P filesystems (such as the
   number of hard links to directories).  An NFS server would make it
   much easier for Unix/Linux and Plan 9 to get along happily.

(6) Incorporating Inferno's Dis virtual machine into the Plan 9 kernel,
   so Plan 9 can run Dis binaries natively, without having to run the
   Inferno emulator (emu) as a user process.

Inferno-related:

(A) A 64-bit version of Dis, which was designed as a 32-bit (31-bit?)
   architecture.

(B) Porting Inferno to modern video game consoles, such as the Nintendo
   Switch family.  Coolness.

(C) Creating a secure version of Dis.  The way that Dis handles
   allocated/freed memory isn't particularly safe, and can leak
   sensitive data (such as encryption keys).  It doesn't have a way to
   whiten memory, or to mark ranges of memory as non-swappable.  This
   could be done by adding new VM instructions, or on a per-module
   basis by adding new module flags.

(D) Porting Nemo/LSUB's "OSHAD" to Plan 9.  OSHAD is an authentication
   system (implemented in Inferno) which allows you to provide
   passwords or acknowledge actions from a separate, wireless hand-held
   device.

(E) A postscript/PDF viewer for Inferno.  Enough said.  :)

Android-related:

(a) An Android "app" that presents an Android phone's telephone and SMS
   messaging facilities as a 9P filesystem.  This would enable Plan 9
   and Inferno applications to place/receive voice calls and
   send/receive text messages across a network.  This could be done by
   extending bhgv's existing Android port of Inferno, or as a
   separtate, stand-alone server app.

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-02-01  7:16 ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) cigar562hfsp952fans
  2021-02-01 20:46   ` Steve Simon
@ 2021-02-01 21:47   ` sirjofri
  2021-02-03 14:07     ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-08-06 16:25     ` Jack Johnson
  2021-02-02  8:29   ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) tlaronde
                     ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  5 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-02-01 21:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Hello,

many many really cool ideas. Most of them get a big heart icon, but I 
don't want to repeat your ideas. So consider this one large heart for all 
of them ♥️.

My annotations are inline.

01.02.2021 08:16:58 cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org:
> (2) A Zoom/video conferencing application for Plan 9.  Enough said.  :)

Afaik someone on grid wanted to try some voice chat stuff using mq, 
maybe. Could be helpful.

> (a) An Android "app" that presents an Android phone's telephone and SMS
>     messaging facilities as a 9P filesystem.  This would enable Plan 9
>     and Inferno applications to place/receive voice calls and
>     send/receive text messages across a network.  This could be done by
>     extending bhgv's existing Android port of Inferno, or as a
>     separtate, stand-alone server app.

Also hellaphone might be interesting (maybe just for comparison). Afaik 
they removed the whole java stuff from android and replaced it with dis. 
They were able to do phone calls and I think they got rudimentary text 
messages working, too, but both directly on the phone using inferno.


A native 9p interface for Android might also be a nice project. Android 
supports adding new protocols like ftp or smb to its native filesystem 
pool. I don't know the details.

I also have some other project ideas like many, like a native Android 
gridchat client, but that's too specific, I think. I'll play around with 
these when I'm done studying.

sirjofri

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* Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021
  2021-02-01 11:26   ` Bakul Shah
@ 2021-02-02  1:15     ` raingloom
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: raingloom @ 2021-02-02  1:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bakul Shah; +Cc: 9fans, Anthony Sorace, inferno-os, plan9port-dev, plan9-gsoc

On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 03:26:35 -0800
Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:

> Chibi-Scheme supposedly works on plan9 though I haven’t played with
> it in years.

Chibi is very broken on arm64 and possibly other architectures. I have
attempted to fix it but didn't get far.

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* Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021
  2021-01-29 19:23 [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 Anthony Sorace
  2021-02-01  0:31 ` ~vidak
  2021-02-01  7:16 ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) cigar562hfsp952fans
@ 2021-02-02  5:30 ` ori
  2021-02-02 10:40 ` [9fans] Project idea (was: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) sirjofri
  2021-02-02 16:07 ` [9fans] Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 Jeff Sickel
  4 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2021-02-02  5:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net>:
> 1.  Project ideas.  One of the key parts of the application is the
> project ideas page.  If you’ve got ideas that seem like they’d
> be a good fit for the program, and *especially* if you’re up for
> mentoring them, please think about how to describe them in
> sufficient detail for a student to work on (objectives,
> promising starting points, likely challenges, &c).

Here's a partial list of things I've been hoping to find
time for. Some are fuzzy and poorly thought out. I'd be
willing to mentor most of them, given someone that I had
confidence in.

In no particular order:

- Imlementing asan in 6l:
        Right now, there's no easy way to detect access
        to uninitialized memory on the stack, use after
        free, or many other common C errors in plan 9.

        Unix has a number of tools like the address
        sanitizer and valgrind.

        I think it would be possible to make the linkers
        instrument programs with checks similar to the
        clang address sanitizer.

        https://research.google.com/pubs/archive/37752.pdf

        This would involve getting a fairly deep
        understanding of how the linkers work,
        modifying them to add a check before every
        memory read and write. It would also involve
        writing a runtime library for it, which
        could possibly be put into libc besite the
        profiling code.

- Improving dtracy:
        9front has implemented a dtrace workalike
        called dtracy. It's already proved useful
        for collecting statistics systemwide, but
        has a few annoyances. Namely:
                - It does not know how to collect
                  stack traces.
                - It needs manually defined tracepoints.

        The first issue would involve teaching
        the kernel how to collect the stack trace
        of a process -- so, parsing debug info
        and packing it up into something that can
        be sent back to userspace.

        The second can probably be done by marrying
        devtrace from 9atom with dtracy:

                http://man.postnix.pw/9atom/3/trace

- Implementing fuzzing framework:
        Plan 9 programs often handle unexpected
        input poorly. A tool that would help root
        out crashes and improve reliability of
        plan 9 software would be very welcome.

        The goal would be to implement a tool
        similar to AFL, but running on plan 9,
        using the plan 9 toolchain.

        https://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/afl/

        This may require some changes to the
        linker, to make profiling information
        granular enough to provide coverage.

- Implementing syzkaller support:
        The reasoning is the same as above: The
        plan 9 kernel almost certainly has a number
        of undiscovered bugs, panics, and issues
        around mishanlding of untrusted input.

        An attempt to fuzz the kernel would ceratinly
        improve software quality.

        This may also involve enhancing the linker to
        provide more granular coverage information.

        https://github.com/google/syzkaller/blob/master/docs/internals.md

- SSH server:
        For providing service to unix, this could
        be helpful -- at least, git/serve could
        use it for push and clone.

        This would probably be done by forking the
        ssh client (/sys/src/cmd/ssh.c), and making
        it handle the server side of communication,
        then doing a cleanup pass to pull out the
        common code.

- TLS certificate chain verification:
        Right now, we rely on thumbprints for
        certificate verification. Thumbprints
        require manual additions for ever server
        that we want to communicate with in a
        secure and authenticated manner.

        We should instead handle TLS certificate
        chain verification in our x509 client.

        The LibreSSL people recently put together
        a test suite for certificate verification.
        This should be used to validate the work.

- Devdraw improvements:
        It seems like moving devdraw to userspace
        is a good idea. This also allows doing some
        vectorized SSE draw ops that would be painful
        in the kernel, as well as allowing freer
        experimentation with toys like affine transforms,
        antialiasing modes, similar.

- Malloc improvemnts:
        Our current allocator is slow, and takes
        a global lock on every allocation. We're
        leaving a lot of performance on the table,
        and a faster allocator need not be all that
        much more complex.

- Arm64 go support
        Seems feasible. May be too small in scope,
        since all the code gen is there. If so,
        there are a bunch of improvements to the
        runtime that could be made.

        As a sporadic user of go, I'm probably
        not the best choice. It seems that miller
        or 0intro are the most prolific plan9 go
        committers -- if they are willing.

- Searchable PDFs in page:
        Sigrid has done some initial work on writing
        the basics of a pdffs; Expanding on it and
        implementing plain text output would be a
        good first step.

        Once plain text is done, implementing rendering
        would be the next step. It's an open question
        how to do the rendering, and whether it's worth
        extending libmemdraw or stealing parts of libttf
        as part of the project.

        This is a big one, and I'd be happy if we came
        out of it with a working pdf2text.

        Sigrid is the initial author, and would be the
        best choice to mentor, if she is willing.


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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-02-01  7:16 ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) cigar562hfsp952fans
  2021-02-01 20:46   ` Steve Simon
  2021-02-01 21:47   ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas sirjofri
@ 2021-02-02  8:29   ` tlaronde
  2021-02-03 15:07     ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-02-06  2:17     ` David Arroyo
  2021-02-03 18:26   ` ori
                     ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  5 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: tlaronde @ 2021-02-02  8:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Hello,

On Mon, Feb 01, 2021 at 07:16:58AM +0000, cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org wrote:
> Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> writes:
> 
> > Hello! After a few years away, we?ll be applying to Google?s Summer of Code program again this year.
> 
> ...
> 
> > 1. Project ideas. One of the key parts of the application is the
> > project ideas page. If you?ve got ideas that seem like they?d be a
> 
> Plan 9-related:
> 
> (1) Porting the Plan 9 kernel to a microkernel architecture, such as
>     Mach.  This would give Plan 9 instant access to the whole range of
>     hardware supported by the underlying microkernel.
> 

No. One should re-read the initial papers about Plan9. When Plan9 was
designed, microkernels were "fashionable". If one reads carefully the
paper, it's clear that there is a pun intended against microkernels that
didn't achieve what they were supposed to do---disastrous efficiency
leading to the rewrite of the microkernels as assembly---a very low
signal/noise ratio. And a hint: "micro" kernels are usually _huge_, a
clear sign that something went wrong.

As drivers are concerned, there was once a kit supposed to give a wide
range of kernels, drivers code---I don't know where it is now; I suppose
it has vanished. And now probably UEFI drivers is a "better than nothing"
solution.

My 2 cents,
-- 
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                     http://www.kergis.com/
                    http://kertex.kergis.com/
                       http://www.sbfa.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

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* Re: [9fans] Project idea (was: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-01-29 19:23 [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 Anthony Sorace
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-02-02  5:30 ` [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 ori
@ 2021-02-02 10:40 ` sirjofri
  2021-02-02 16:07 ` [9fans] Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 Jeff Sickel
  4 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-02-02 10:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net>:
> 1. Project ideas. [...]

Another Android project idea I was thinking about for some time:

It is possible to add another password management tool to android,
like lastpass and others.  I thought it might be useful to have a
secstore-compatible factotum-like native android app for android
passwords.

> 2. Students. If you are a qualifying student, please consider applying!

Although I technically still am a student it's impossible for me.  I'm
writing my last thesis and then I'm done studying.
 
> 3. Mentors. If you’ve been working with Plan 9 or related technologies
> for a while, would be excited to help new folks get into it, and have
> time for mentoring a student over the summer, please get in touch.

Not this time :).  I hope I can do it the next time.  My studying is
done in march, then I can try to help others.


By the way, what organization officially applies?  Is there some
official 9fans organization or something?


sirjofri

.


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* [9fans] Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021
  2021-01-29 19:23 [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 Anthony Sorace
                   ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-02-02 10:40 ` [9fans] Project idea (was: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) sirjofri
@ 2021-02-02 16:07 ` Jeff Sickel
  4 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Jeff Sickel @ 2021-02-02 16:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: plan9-gsoc, Anthony Sorace; +Cc: 9fans, inferno-os, plan9port-dev

Everyone,

It is good to see enthusiasm floating around 9fans and others as we’ve announced that we are applying to Google Summer of Code 2021 to be a mentor organization again.  It truly has been too long since Plan 9, Inferno, plan9ports, and related technologies, outside of pure Go projects, have had projects going through GSOC.

We want to remind everyone to review the changes announced for 2021.  The key point is the "175-hour project over a 10-week coding period” that will influence what projects can be taken on by the selected mentor organizations.

We have not made it through the mentor group selection process yet, it did just start after all.  So let’s definitely continue the desired list of projects and a group of mentors ready to assist in case we are selected.

Thank you,

Jeff

> On Jan 29, 2021, at 1:23 PM, Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:
> 
> [changes]:            https://opensource.googleblog.com/2020/10/google-summer-of-code-2021-is-bringing.html

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-02-01 21:47   ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas sirjofri
@ 2021-02-03 14:07     ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-08-06 16:25     ` Jack Johnson
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-02-03 14:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, at 9:47 PM, sirjofri wrote:
> > (a) An Android "app" that presents an Android phone's telephone and SMS
> >     messaging facilities as a 9P filesystem.  This would enable Plan 9
> >     and Inferno applications to place/receive voice calls and
> >     send/receive text messages across a network.  This could be done by
> >     extending bhgv's existing Android port of Inferno, or as a
> >     separtate, stand-alone server app.

Yes. I recall some users of IoS Drawterm very much appreciated /dev/gps

> Also hellaphone might be interesting (maybe just for comparison). Afaik 
> they removed the whole java stuff from android and replaced it with dis. 
> They were able to do phone calls and I think they got rudimentary text 
> messages working, too, but both directly on the phone using inferno.

They did. Unfortunately, Linux is so bad at abstracting hardware interfaces that it only ever ran on one or two phones. Also, they never figured out how to make it ring. They did have /dev interfaces for sms and dialing.
http://jfloren.net/b/2015/8/18/2

(Should I be blaming Android hardware vendors for Linux interface inconsistency? I don't think so. I remember sysfs going from about 3 to over 10 files just to represent battery state.)

> A native 9p interface for Android might also be a nice project. Android 
> supports adding new protocols like ftp or smb to its native filesystem 
> pool. I don't know the details.

Awesome!

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-02-01 20:46   ` Steve Simon
@ 2021-02-03 14:14     ` Ethan Gardener
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-02-03 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, at 8:46 PM, Steve Simon wrote:
> 
> Inferno-related:

These should be posted to inferno-os too, but some are there already. (It's on Google Groups.) Note that they're starting work on a 64-bit DIS; Charles has just announced a fork for working on it.

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-02-02  8:29   ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) tlaronde
@ 2021-02-03 15:07     ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-01-19 11:08       ` pouya+lists.9fans
  2021-02-06  2:17     ` David Arroyo
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-02-03 15:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021, at 8:29 AM, tlaronde@polynum.com wrote:
> > 
> > Plan 9-related:
> > 
> > (1) Porting the Plan 9 kernel to a microkernel architecture, such as
> >     Mach.  This would give Plan 9 instant access to the whole range of
> >     hardware supported by the underlying microkernel.

Apple's Mach is not a microkernel. The first pure microkernel version of the Mach architecture was 3.0. Apple have stuck with 2.5 all these years. The ability to use drivers from some more popular OS would be nice for users if it works, but there are a host of possible integration and maintenance problems. In fact, I know there are problems I don't quite understand related to differing OS designs. The parts I do understand indicate there could be a huge performance penalty in using drivers in OSs for which they were not designed.

I specifically say "more popular" because popularity affects the number of developers available. In those terms, 9front is already in the rarified stratosphere of well-developed hobby OSs. I'd put only 2 or 3 other OSs as its equal. In the next level up, (orbital space? ;) and not counting the BSDs, Haiku is the only one I can think of off the top of my head (but I have just woken up). We might yet see other OSs implementing 9p so they can use our drivers. :) 

> No. One should re-read the initial papers about Plan9. When Plan9 was
> designed, microkernels were "fashionable". If one reads carefully the
> paper, it's clear that there is a pun intended against microkernels that
> didn't achieve what they were supposed to do---disastrous efficiency
> leading to the rewrite of the microkernels as assembly---a very low
> signal/noise ratio. And a hint: "micro" kernels are usually _huge_, a
> clear sign that something went wrong.

Uh... these arguments are kind-of obsolete. Plan 9 is a hybrid on the macro-micro kernel scale. So are mainstream OSs, having arrived at that point by various routes from whatever their origin was. Microkernel QNX is tiny and, if I understand right, makes service development easier than Plan 9 does. I suggest the huge "microkernels" are really hybrids, but I'll omit reasoning on why.

> As drivers are concerned, there was once a kit supposed to give a wide
> range of kernels, drivers code---I don't know where it is now; I suppose
> it has vanished. And now probably UEFI drivers is a "better than nothing"
> solution.

Uh... UEFI boot services are typically available, but UEFI run-time services are a different thing. A long-time OS dev I know does not expect UEFI runtime services to ever be available on commercial-grade hardware. He is a terrible cynic and I can't remember quite how that debate ended, but in general, it looks like UEFI isn't significantly better than the old PC BIOS for compatibility. As they say on osdev.net, "Writing a bootloader which works on one computer is easy. Writing a bootloader which works on many computers is hard." Note this statement is only about features necessary for booting an OS, whether BIOS or UEFI. If those are bad, features not necessary for booting will be worse. And performance of the kind needed at run-time is hardly a consideration when booting. (I appologise for my poor sentence construction. I've just woken up.)

> My 2 cents,

Ain't the Internet wonderful? You get 2 cents back with a lot of interest! XD

Much of what I've posted here is condensed from osdev.net, especialy the forums. I'd suggest lurking there if you're interested in the difficulties (or otherwise) of driver development. It's not perfect by a long shot, but it is a better place for it than this list.

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-02-01  7:16 ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) cigar562hfsp952fans
                     ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-02-02  8:29   ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) tlaronde
@ 2021-02-03 18:26   ` ori
  2021-02-03 23:31   ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2021-02-05 16:42   ` Ethan Gardener
  5 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2021-02-03 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> > 1. Project ideas. One of the key parts of the application is the
> > project ideas page. If you’ve got ideas that seem like they’d be a
> 
> Plan 9-related:
> 
> (1) Porting the Plan 9 kernel to a microkernel architecture, such as
>     Mach.  This would give Plan 9 instant access to the whole range of
>     hardware supported by the underlying microkernel.

I'm not aware of any freely available
microkernels that support a whole range
of hardware.

Gnu Mach doesn't appear to support XHCI,
which would leave my cpu server and one
of my laptops with no plugs for my keyboard.

seL4 seems to have a similar level of support.

Which did you have in mind, and what unsupported
hardware would they have?

> (2) A Zoom/video conferencing application for Plan 9.  Enough said.  :)

I'm not sure enough was said.

Can you talk a little bit about the moving
parts for this proposal? Two main things I'm
wondering:

- how stable and well documented the proposed
  protocols are; can you link to the relevant
  documentation? will the work done still be
  useful 6 months after it's written, or will
  it be a churn treadmill?

- what video codecs would be needed, and what
  are the steps needed to port them?

> (3) Happauge/Brooktree BTTV/video capture drivers.  AFAIK, Plan 9 can
>     only use USB Web cams.

Driver support should definitely be on the
list, though this is somewhat niche hardware,
especially in the days of video streaming.

> (4) Port SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy) tools as a Plan 9 file system.
>     That would give Plan 9 instant access to a huge range of flatbed &
>     sheet-fed document scanners.

I took a peek at the code -- there's a lot
of direct calls to opening the devices; it
may be more expedient to implement TWAIN
natively, rather than porting.

> (5) An NFS sever for Plan 9.  Unix machines have a lot of trouble
>     handling edge cases encountered on 9P filesystems (such as the
>     number of hard links to directories).  An NFS server would make it
>     much easier for Unix/Linux and Plan 9 to get along happily.

Can you describe the problems you ran into
when you tried nfsserver(8), and what changes
you'd expect a student to make to fix them?


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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-01-19 11:08       ` pouya+lists.9fans
@ 2021-02-03 18:58         ` Ethan Gardener
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-02-03 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021, at 11:08 AM, pouya+lists.9fans@nohup.io wrote:
> [eekee57@fastmail.fm]
> > I specifically say "more popular" because popularity affects the
> number of developers available.
> 
> Off-topic and perhaps unpopular view, but I *like* the fact that Plan
> 9 is not (significantly) more popular.  Popularity has ruined many a
> promising creation.

Of course. I was talking about driver development only.

> Although please do not take this to mean that I don't value all the
> work that has been going into developing the community and continuing
> to evolve and move forward.  Luddites like me also greatly benefit
> from it.

Me too. :D

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-02-01  7:16 ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) cigar562hfsp952fans
                     ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-02-03 18:26   ` ori
@ 2021-02-03 23:31   ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2021-02-05 16:42   ` Ethan Gardener
  5 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2021-02-03 23:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 784 bytes --]

Here is some earlier work by Tim Newsham using a styx library by
Charles/Vita Nuova:

https://github.com/9nut/styxbrowser


> Android-related:
>
> (a) An Android "app" that presents an Android phone's telephone and SMS
>     messaging facilities as a 9P filesystem.  This would enable Plan 9
>     and Inferno applications to place/receive voice calls and
>     send/receive text messages across a network.  This could be done by
>     extending bhgv's existing Android port of Inferno, or as a
>     separtate, stand-alone server app.
>
>

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-02-01  7:16 ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) cigar562hfsp952fans
                     ` (4 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-02-03 23:31   ` Skip Tavakkolian
@ 2021-02-05 16:42   ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-02-07 22:59     ` [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas cigar562hfsp952fans
  5 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-02-05 16:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, at 7:16 AM, cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org wrote:
> Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> writes:
> 
> (6) Incorporating Inferno's Dis virtual machine into the Plan 9 kernel,
>     so Plan 9 can run Dis binaries natively, without having to run the
>     Inferno emulator (emu) as a user process.

This idea keeps popping up, but I just thought a Dis to native code compiler would achieve the same result without bloating the kernel. Perhaps it could even be built into Inferno, if the JIT compiler could be modified to output an object file instead of running the code. I'm not sure if that's reasonable; I was just thinking of avoiding duplication of a large, possibly hard to maintain component.

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)
  2021-02-02  8:29   ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) tlaronde
  2021-02-03 15:07     ` Ethan Gardener
@ 2021-02-06  2:17     ` David Arroyo
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: David Arroyo @ 2021-02-06  2:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> (1) Porting the Plan 9 kernel to a microkernel architecture, such as
>     Mach.  This would give Plan 9 instant access to the whole range of
>     hardware supported by the underlying microkernel.

This is kind of the opposite idea, but you could port the NetBSD rump
kernel to Plan 9. It can then be used to interface with any device that
the NetBSD kernel supports.

https://research.csiro.au/tsblog/using-rump-kernels-to-run-unmodified-netbsd-drivers-on-sel4/

David


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* [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-02-05 16:42   ` Ethan Gardener
@ 2021-02-07 22:59     ` cigar562hfsp952fans
  2021-02-09  0:26       ` Steve Simon
  2021-02-09  0:34       ` [9fans] " Ethan Gardener
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: cigar562hfsp952fans @ 2021-02-07 22:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

"Ethan Gardener" <eekee57@fastmail.fm> writes:

> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, at 7:16 AM, cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org wrote:
>> Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> writes:
>> 
>> (6) Incorporating Inferno's Dis virtual machine into the Plan 9 kernel,
>>     so Plan 9 can run Dis binaries natively, without having to run the
>>     Inferno emulator (emu) as a user process.
>
> This idea keeps popping up, but I just thought a Dis to native code
> compiler would achieve the same result without bloating the
> kernel. Perhaps it could even be built into Inferno, if the JIT
> compiler could be modified to output an object file instead of running
> the code.

That's a brilliant idea: a "Dis" assembler for Plan 9, to compile (well,
assemble, really) Dis code to binaries for the host architecture.  The
Dis architecture was specifically designed to make it easy to map the
Dis machine to the underlying architecture.  But... the binary interface
would have to be the Plan 9 one, so the proper place to do such assembly
would be on Plan 9.  If it were an extension of Inferno's JIT, it would
have to track changes made to Plan 9.  Since Dis is stable and
standardized, it makes more sense for a Plan 9 tool to track Dis than
the other way around.  Come to think of it, you wouldn't even need to
implement a full assembler.  Assembling Dis on Plan 9 could be achieved
simply by dis-assembling (a la appl/cmd/disdump.b) Dis modules to Plan 9
assembly language.  The Plan 9 assembler suite already exists.

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* Re: [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-02-07 22:59     ` [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas cigar562hfsp952fans
@ 2021-02-09  0:26       ` Steve Simon
  2021-02-09  1:59         ` [9fans] " Jeff Sickel
  2021-02-09  0:34       ` [9fans] " Ethan Gardener
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Steve Simon @ 2021-02-09  0:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

there was a native plan9 dis interpreter that would run simple command line applications. on Andrey’s website i think.

-Steve


On 8 Feb 2021, at 8:49 pm, cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org wrote:

"Ethan Gardener" <eekee57@fastmail.fm> writes:

> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, at 7:16 AM, cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org wrote:
>> Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> writes:
>> 
>> (6) Incorporating Inferno's Dis virtual machine into the Plan 9 kernel,
>>    so Plan 9 can run Dis binaries natively, without having to run the
>>    Inferno emulator (emu) as a user process.
> 
> This idea keeps popping up, but I just thought a Dis to native code
> compiler would achieve the same result without bloating the
> kernel. Perhaps it could even be built into Inferno, if the JIT
> compiler could be modified to output an object file instead of running
> the code.

That's a brilliant idea: a "Dis" assembler for Plan 9, to compile (well,
assemble, really) Dis code to binaries for the host architecture.  The
Dis architecture was specifically designed to make it easy to map the
Dis machine to the underlying architecture.  But... the binary interface
would have to be the Plan 9 one, so the proper place to do such assembly
would be on Plan 9.  If it were an extension of Inferno's JIT, it would
have to track changes made to Plan 9.  Since Dis is stable and
standardized, it makes more sense for a Plan 9 tool to track Dis than
the other way around.  Come to think of it, you wouldn't even need to
implement a full assembler.  Assembling Dis on Plan 9 could be achieved
simply by dis-assembling (a la appl/cmd/disdump.b) Dis modules to Plan 9
assembly language.  The Plan 9 assembler suite already exists.

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* Re: [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-02-07 22:59     ` [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas cigar562hfsp952fans
  2021-02-09  0:26       ` Steve Simon
@ 2021-02-09  0:34       ` Ethan Gardener
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-02-09  0:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Sun, Feb 7, 2021, at 10:59 PM, cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org wrote:
> 
> That's a brilliant idea: a "Dis" assembler for Plan 9, to compile (well,
> assemble, really) Dis code to binaries for the host architecture.  The
> Dis architecture was specifically designed to make it easy to map the
> Dis machine to the underlying architecture.  But... the binary interface
> would have to be the Plan 9 one, so the proper place to do such assembly
> would be on Plan 9.  If it were an extension of Inferno's JIT, it would
> have to track changes made to Plan 9.  Since Dis is stable and
> standardized, it makes more sense for a Plan 9 tool to track Dis than
> the other way around.

Thanks! I'm far from being an expert in the generation of object files, so I'll bow to your knowledge there.

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-02-09  0:26       ` Steve Simon
@ 2021-02-09  1:59         ` Jeff Sickel
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Jeff Sickel @ 2021-02-09  1:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

See http://mirtchovski.com/p9/dis/


> On Feb 8, 2021, at 6:26 PM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
> 
> there was a native plan9 dis interpreter that would run simple command line applications. on Andrey’s website i think.

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-02-01 21:47   ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas sirjofri
  2021-02-03 14:07     ` Ethan Gardener
@ 2021-08-06 16:25     ` Jack Johnson
  2021-08-19 21:06       ` unobe
                         ` (2 more replies)
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Jack Johnson @ 2021-08-06 16:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2004 bytes --]

Anyone know if this project went anywhere?

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf

A Hellaphone revisit.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 12:48 PM sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de>
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> many many really cool ideas. Most of them get a big heart icon, but I
> don't want to repeat your ideas. So consider this one large heart for all
> of them ♥️.
>
> My annotations are inline.
>
> 01.02.2021 08:16:58 cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org:
> > (2) A Zoom/video conferencing application for Plan 9.  Enough said.  :)
>
> Afaik someone on grid wanted to try some voice chat stuff using mq,
> maybe. Could be helpful.
>
> > (a) An Android "app" that presents an Android phone's telephone and SMS
> >     messaging facilities as a 9P filesystem.  This would enable Plan 9
> >     and Inferno applications to place/receive voice calls and
> >     send/receive text messages across a network.  This could be done by
> >     extending bhgv's existing Android port of Inferno, or as a
> >     separtate, stand-alone server app.
> 
> Also hellaphone might be interesting (maybe just for comparison). Afaik
> they removed the whole java stuff from android and replaced it with dis.
> They were able to do phone calls and I think they got rudimentary text
> messages working, too, but both directly on the phone using inferno.
> 
> A native 9p interface for Android might also be a nice project. Android
> supports adding new protocols like ftp or smb to its native filesystem
> pool. I don't know the details.
> 
> I also have some other project ideas like many, like a native Android
> gridchat client, but that's too specific, I think. I'll play around with
> these when I'm done studying.
> 
> sirjofri

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-08-06 16:25     ` Jack Johnson
@ 2021-08-19 21:06       ` unobe
  2021-09-20  4:52       ` [9fans] " cigar562hfsp952fans
  2021-09-20  5:43       ` [9fans] " Dave Eckhardt
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: unobe @ 2021-08-19 21:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com>:
> Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
> 
> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
> 
> A Hellaphone revisit.

Maybe e-mail davide+receptionist@cs.cmu.edu , since it's one of his
lectures?


------------------------------------------
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* [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-08-06 16:25     ` Jack Johnson
  2021-08-19 21:06       ` unobe
@ 2021-09-20  4:52       ` cigar562hfsp952fans
  2021-09-20  5:08         ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-20  5:11         ` vidak
  2021-09-20  5:43       ` [9fans] " Dave Eckhardt
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: cigar562hfsp952fans @ 2021-09-20  4:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> writes:

> Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
>
> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
>
> A Hellaphone revisit.

I just read that PDF (which appears to be a series of slides from a
presentation).  It looks like a great project.  I would love to get my
hands on one of the "Purge ROMs" they describe.

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  4:52       ` [9fans] " cigar562hfsp952fans
@ 2021-09-20  5:08         ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-20  5:11         ` vidak
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Conor Williams @ 2021-09-20  5:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 792 bytes --]

my emails to this group are not getting through...
i will be checking and reporting

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 5:06 AM <cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org> wrote:

> Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
> >
> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
> >
> > A Hellaphone revisit.
> 
> I just read that PDF (which appears to be a series of slides from a
> presentation).  It looks like a great project.  I would love to get my
> hands on one of the "Purge ROMs" they describe.

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  4:52       ` [9fans] " cigar562hfsp952fans
  2021-09-20  5:08         ` Conor Williams
@ 2021-09-20  5:11         ` vidak
  2021-09-20 15:02           ` ori
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: vidak @ 2021-09-20  5:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Can I suggest a GSoC idea project?

vidak

On 2021-09-20 12:52, cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org wrote:
> Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
>>
>> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
>>
>> A Hellaphone revisit.
> 
> I just read that PDF (which appears to be a series of slides from a
> presentation).  It looks like a great project.  I would love to get my
> hands on one of the "Purge ROMs" they describe.

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-08-06 16:25     ` Jack Johnson
  2021-08-19 21:06       ` unobe
  2021-09-20  4:52       ` [9fans] " cigar562hfsp952fans
@ 2021-09-20  5:43       ` Dave Eckhardt
  2021-09-20  7:51         ` Ethan Gardener
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Dave Eckhardt @ 2021-09-20  5:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
>
> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf

Sadly, not.  One issue is that modern Android releases don't
support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was
attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since).

But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here:

  https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv

If wide availability, meaning being able to have a phone UI running
on random cheap Android phones, is a goal, you'd presumably want
to target one or more vendor releases of Android.

But if a low-cruft solution were desired, it might be desirable to
target AOSP or GrapheneOS.  Both of those boot *dramatically* faster
than vendor ROMs, and it's because there is just less code.

Between the two of them, GrapheneOS might be better: it doesn't run
on a lot of phones, but some of them are cheap enough, and switching
from the vendor ROM to GrapheneOS is easy enough.  Compared to AOSP,
GrapheneOS has some genuine usability features, e.g., a usable
backup/restore solution.

Hopefully some of this is useful.  Sorry I can't provide more!

Dave Eckhardt

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  5:43       ` [9fans] " Dave Eckhardt
@ 2021-09-20  7:51         ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-09-20  8:23           ` hiro
  2021-09-20 11:05           ` sirjofri
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-09-20  7:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

tl;dr: forget inferno, port plan 9 to the pine phone.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:
> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
> >
> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf

I had to laugh at one of the slides. Inferno running natively on "x86 supercomputer"? I think implementing multicore support would be a first step, not to mention 64-bit! While it would be nice if those jobs were done, they will take time and effort. Overall, if porting natively, I see little sense in preferring Inferno to Plan 9, especially as Plan 9 already supports 64-bit multicore. 

> Sadly, not.  One issue is that modern Android releases don't
> support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was
> attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since).

Recalling the issues Hellaphone had and the time it took, I'm of the opinion that getting Inferno to work on any given phone's Linux kernel is hardly more worthwhile than porting it directly to the hardware. The kernels have undocumented interfaces.

A current thread on OSdev (operating system development) forums is looking at phones. It's a little rambly, but it reports on some encouraging things. Lots of "baseband processors" (the phone-network communication subsystems) have documented interfaces. There are at least 2 phones available now which are fully open for operating system development: the PinePhone and the Librem 5. (5 is the screen size.) Of the 2, the Pine Phone seems better, not least because it can boot from the SD card; useful for testing.
https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53251

There's also the option of building your own phone out of components. The thread has some info. I'm guessing most here would prefer a PinePhone.

> But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here:
> 
>   https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv

That's probably a good source of code. bhgv is a freelance programmer who was very interested in Inferno and made several improvements including Truetype fonts. The last I heard was he tried to find paid work involving Inferno but couldn't, so he didn't have time to work on it.

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  7:51         ` Ethan Gardener
@ 2021-09-20  8:23           ` hiro
  2021-09-20  8:37             ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-21  9:01             ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-09-20 11:05           ` sirjofri
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-09-20  8:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

i think the main reason people are willing to fall for the android
platform is bec. there is no good long-term supply of updated phone
hardware with backwards-compatible interfaces.

a lot of qualcomm and mediatek chipsets are being built, but instead
of documentation they only ship half-baked linux drivers, which are
often not even mainlined.

those linux drivers are already hard to make work on actual linux
distributions, or even on android distributions.

who wants to reverse-engineer the hardware over and over again based
on such linux drivers...

On 9/20/21, Ethan Gardener <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> tl;dr: forget inferno, port plan 9 to the pine phone.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:
>> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
>> >
>> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
>
> I had to laugh at one of the slides. Inferno running natively on "x86
> supercomputer"? I think implementing multicore support would be a first
> step, not to mention 64-bit! While it would be nice if those jobs were done,
> they will take time and effort. Overall, if porting natively, I see little
> sense in preferring Inferno to Plan 9, especially as Plan 9 already supports
> 64-bit multicore.
>
>> Sadly, not.  One issue is that modern Android releases don't
>> support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was
>> attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since).
>
> Recalling the issues Hellaphone had and the time it took, I'm of the opinion
> that getting Inferno to work on any given phone's Linux kernel is hardly
> more worthwhile than porting it directly to the hardware. The kernels have
> undocumented interfaces.
>
> A current thread on OSdev (operating system development) forums is looking
> at phones. It's a little rambly, but it reports on some encouraging things.
> Lots of "baseband processors" (the phone-network communication subsystems)
> have documented interfaces. There are at least 2 phones available now which
> are fully open for operating system development: the PinePhone and the
> Librem 5. (5 is the screen size.) Of the 2, the Pine Phone seems better, not
> least because it can boot from the SD card; useful for testing.
> https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53251
>
> There's also the option of building your own phone out of components. The
> thread has some info. I'm guessing most here would prefer a PinePhone.
>
>> But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here:
>>
>>   https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv
> 
> That's probably a good source of code. bhgv is a freelance programmer who
> was very interested in Inferno and made several improvements including
> Truetype fonts. The last I heard was he tried to find paid work involving
> Inferno but couldn't, so he didn't have time to work on it.

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  8:23           ` hiro
@ 2021-09-20  8:37             ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-20  8:39               ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-21  9:01             ` Ethan Gardener
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Conor Williams @ 2021-09-20  8:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3596 bytes --]

some of the fuseblk disc/k drivers/modules on peppermint which is a flavour
of ubuntu
are not even in the kernel space and there are mount.XYZ processes left
open which are
wide open to attack (with # fuser -p <PID>) /c09
for those chips tings

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:24 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:

> i think the main reason people are willing to fall for the android
> platform is bec. there is no good long-term supply of updated phone
> hardware with backwards-compatible interfaces.
>
> a lot of qualcomm and mediatek chipsets are being built, but instead
> of documentation they only ship half-baked linux drivers, which are
> often not even mainlined.
>
> those linux drivers are already hard to make work on actual linux
> distributions, or even on android distributions.
>
> who wants to reverse-engineer the hardware over and over again based
> on such linux drivers...
>
> On 9/20/21, Ethan Gardener <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > tl;dr: forget inferno, port plan 9 to the pine phone.
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:
> >> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
> >> >
> >> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
> >
> > I had to laugh at one of the slides. Inferno running natively on "x86
> > supercomputer"? I think implementing multicore support would be a first
> > step, not to mention 64-bit! While it would be nice if those jobs were
> done,
> > they will take time and effort. Overall, if porting natively, I see
> little
> > sense in preferring Inferno to Plan 9, especially as Plan 9 already
> supports
> > 64-bit multicore.
> >
> >> Sadly, not.  One issue is that modern Android releases don't
> >> support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was
> >> attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since).
> >
> > Recalling the issues Hellaphone had and the time it took, I'm of the
> opinion
> > that getting Inferno to work on any given phone's Linux kernel is hardly
> > more worthwhile than porting it directly to the hardware. The kernels
> have
> > undocumented interfaces.
> >
> > A current thread on OSdev (operating system development) forums is
> looking
> > at phones. It's a little rambly, but it reports on some encouraging
> things.
> > Lots of "baseband processors" (the phone-network communication
> subsystems)
> > have documented interfaces. There are at least 2 phones available now
> which
> > are fully open for operating system development: the PinePhone and the
> > Librem 5. (5 is the screen size.) Of the 2, the Pine Phone seems better,
> not
> > least because it can boot from the SD card; useful for testing.
> > https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53251
> >
> > There's also the option of building your own phone out of components. The
> > thread has some info. I'm guessing most here would prefer a PinePhone.
> >
> >> But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here:
> >>
> >>   https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv
> >
> > That's probably a good source of code. bhgv is a freelance programmer who
> > was very interested in Inferno and made several improvements including
> > Truetype fonts. The last I heard was he tried to find paid work involving
> > Inferno but couldn't, so he didn't have time to work on it.

------------------------------------------
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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  8:37             ` Conor Williams
@ 2021-09-20  8:39               ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-20  8:45                 ` Conor Williams
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Conor Williams @ 2021-09-20  8:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3820 bytes --]

if it is a vfat filesystem it is ok....

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:37 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
wrote:

> some of the fuseblk disc/k drivers/modules on peppermint which is a
> flavour of ubuntu
> are not even in the kernel space and there are mount.XYZ processes left
> open which are
> wide open to attack (with # fuser -p <PID>) /c09
> for those chips tings
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:24 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i think the main reason people are willing to fall for the android
>> platform is bec. there is no good long-term supply of updated phone
>> hardware with backwards-compatible interfaces.
>>
>> a lot of qualcomm and mediatek chipsets are being built, but instead
>> of documentation they only ship half-baked linux drivers, which are
>> often not even mainlined.
>>
>> those linux drivers are already hard to make work on actual linux
>> distributions, or even on android distributions.
>>
>> who wants to reverse-engineer the hardware over and over again based
>> on such linux drivers...
>>
>> On 9/20/21, Ethan Gardener <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> > tl;dr: forget inferno, port plan 9 to the pine phone.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:
>> >> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
>> >> >
>> >> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
>> >
>> > I had to laugh at one of the slides. Inferno running natively on "x86
>> > supercomputer"? I think implementing multicore support would be a first
>> > step, not to mention 64-bit! While it would be nice if those jobs were
>> done,
>> > they will take time and effort. Overall, if porting natively, I see
>> little
>> > sense in preferring Inferno to Plan 9, especially as Plan 9 already
>> supports
>> > 64-bit multicore.
>> >
>> >> Sadly, not.  One issue is that modern Android releases don't
>> >> support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was
>> >> attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since).
>> >
>> > Recalling the issues Hellaphone had and the time it took, I'm of the
>> opinion
>> > that getting Inferno to work on any given phone's Linux kernel is hardly
>> > more worthwhile than porting it directly to the hardware. The kernels
>> have
>> > undocumented interfaces.
>> >
>> > A current thread on OSdev (operating system development) forums is
>> looking
>> > at phones. It's a little rambly, but it reports on some encouraging
>> things.
>> > Lots of "baseband processors" (the phone-network communication
>> subsystems)
>> > have documented interfaces. There are at least 2 phones available now
>> which
>> > are fully open for operating system development: the PinePhone and the
>> > Librem 5. (5 is the screen size.) Of the 2, the Pine Phone seems
>> better, not
>> > least because it can boot from the SD card; useful for testing.
>> > https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53251
>> >
>> > There's also the option of building your own phone out of components.
>> The
>> > thread has some info. I'm guessing most here would prefer a PinePhone.
>> >
>> >> But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here:
>> >>
>> >>   https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv
>> >
>> > That's probably a good source of code. bhgv is a freelance programmer
>> who
>> > was very interested in Inferno and made several improvements including
>> > Truetype fonts. The last I heard was he tried to find paid work
>> involving
>> > Inferno but couldn't, so he didn't have time to work on it.

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  8:39               ` Conor Williams
@ 2021-09-20  8:45                 ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-20  8:52                   ` Conor Williams
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Conor Williams @ 2021-09-20  8:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4203 bytes --]

i figured out the random hack which messed me up 12 years ago 2 days ago
/c:f20
and the buda bug is fixed on my system - took me 3 days strait to find it...
and the fuseblk hack took a while /c:2021

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:39 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
wrote:

> if it is a vfat filesystem it is ok....
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:37 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> some of the fuseblk disc/k drivers/modules on peppermint which is a
>> flavour of ubuntu
>> are not even in the kernel space and there are mount.XYZ processes left
>> open which are
>> wide open to attack (with # fuser -p <PID>) /c09
>> for those chips tings
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:24 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> i think the main reason people are willing to fall for the android
>>> platform is bec. there is no good long-term supply of updated phone
>>> hardware with backwards-compatible interfaces.
>>>
>>> a lot of qualcomm and mediatek chipsets are being built, but instead
>>> of documentation they only ship half-baked linux drivers, which are
>>> often not even mainlined.
>>>
>>> those linux drivers are already hard to make work on actual linux
>>> distributions, or even on android distributions.
>>>
>>> who wants to reverse-engineer the hardware over and over again based
>>> on such linux drivers...
>>>
>>> On 9/20/21, Ethan Gardener <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>> > tl;dr: forget inferno, port plan 9 to the pine phone.
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:
>>> >> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
>>> >
>>> > I had to laugh at one of the slides. Inferno running natively on "x86
>>> > supercomputer"? I think implementing multicore support would be a first
>>> > step, not to mention 64-bit! While it would be nice if those jobs were
>>> done,
>>> > they will take time and effort. Overall, if porting natively, I see
>>> little
>>> > sense in preferring Inferno to Plan 9, especially as Plan 9 already
>>> supports
>>> > 64-bit multicore.
>>> >
>>> >> Sadly, not.  One issue is that modern Android releases don't
>>> >> support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was
>>> >> attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since).
>>> >
>>> > Recalling the issues Hellaphone had and the time it took, I'm of the
>>> opinion
>>> > that getting Inferno to work on any given phone's Linux kernel is
>>> hardly
>>> > more worthwhile than porting it directly to the hardware. The kernels
>>> have
>>> > undocumented interfaces.
>>> >
>>> > A current thread on OSdev (operating system development) forums is
>>> looking
>>> > at phones. It's a little rambly, but it reports on some encouraging
>>> things.
>>> > Lots of "baseband processors" (the phone-network communication
>>> subsystems)
>>> > have documented interfaces. There are at least 2 phones available now
>>> which
>>> > are fully open for operating system development: the PinePhone and the
>>> > Librem 5. (5 is the screen size.) Of the 2, the Pine Phone seems
>>> better, not
>>> > least because it can boot from the SD card; useful for testing.
>>> > https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53251
>>> >
>>> > There's also the option of building your own phone out of components.
>>> The
>>> > thread has some info. I'm guessing most here would prefer a PinePhone.
>>> >
>>> >> But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here:
>>> >>
>>> >>   https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv
>>> >
>>> > That's probably a good source of code. bhgv is a freelance programmer
>>> who
>>> > was very interested in Inferno and made several improvements including
>>> > Truetype fonts. The last I heard was he tried to find paid work
>>> involving
>>> > Inferno but couldn't, so he didn't have time to work on it.

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T39aec8f3f9d8503d-M080aad5bb3d8f05354a56fc5
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  8:45                 ` Conor Williams
@ 2021-09-20  8:52                   ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-20  8:58                     ` Conor Williams
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Conor Williams @ 2021-09-20  8:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4560 bytes --]

and tim roberts on an unrelated topic is a bunch of un-ethical hackers
diminishing the intellect of the humanity /c:202109200851
hack the planet my fiends...

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:45 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
wrote:

> i figured out the random hack which messed me up 12 years ago 2 days ago
> /c:f20
> and the buda bug is fixed on my system - took me 3 days strait to find
> it...
> and the fuseblk hack took a while /c:2021
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:39 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> if it is a vfat filesystem it is ok....
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:37 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> some of the fuseblk disc/k drivers/modules on peppermint which is a
>>> flavour of ubuntu
>>> are not even in the kernel space and there are mount.XYZ processes left
>>> open which are
>>> wide open to attack (with # fuser -p <PID>) /c09
>>> for those chips tings
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:24 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i think the main reason people are willing to fall for the android
>>>> platform is bec. there is no good long-term supply of updated phone
>>>> hardware with backwards-compatible interfaces.
>>>>
>>>> a lot of qualcomm and mediatek chipsets are being built, but instead
>>>> of documentation they only ship half-baked linux drivers, which are
>>>> often not even mainlined.
>>>>
>>>> those linux drivers are already hard to make work on actual linux
>>>> distributions, or even on android distributions.
>>>>
>>>> who wants to reverse-engineer the hardware over and over again based
>>>> on such linux drivers...
>>>>
>>>> On 9/20/21, Ethan Gardener <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>>> > tl;dr: forget inferno, port plan 9 to the pine phone.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:
>>>> >> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
>>>> >
>>>> > I had to laugh at one of the slides. Inferno running natively on "x86
>>>> > supercomputer"? I think implementing multicore support would be a
>>>> first
>>>> > step, not to mention 64-bit! While it would be nice if those jobs
>>>> were done,
>>>> > they will take time and effort. Overall, if porting natively, I see
>>>> little
>>>> > sense in preferring Inferno to Plan 9, especially as Plan 9 already
>>>> supports
>>>> > 64-bit multicore.
>>>> >
>>>> >> Sadly, not.  One issue is that modern Android releases don't
>>>> >> support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was
>>>> >> attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since).
>>>> >
>>>> > Recalling the issues Hellaphone had and the time it took, I'm of the
>>>> opinion
>>>> > that getting Inferno to work on any given phone's Linux kernel is
>>>> hardly
>>>> > more worthwhile than porting it directly to the hardware. The kernels
>>>> have
>>>> > undocumented interfaces.
>>>> >
>>>> > A current thread on OSdev (operating system development) forums is
>>>> looking
>>>> > at phones. It's a little rambly, but it reports on some encouraging
>>>> things.
>>>> > Lots of "baseband processors" (the phone-network communication
>>>> subsystems)
>>>> > have documented interfaces. There are at least 2 phones available now
>>>> which
>>>> > are fully open for operating system development: the PinePhone and the
>>>> > Librem 5. (5 is the screen size.) Of the 2, the Pine Phone seems
>>>> better, not
>>>> > least because it can boot from the SD card; useful for testing.
>>>> > https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53251
>>>> >
>>>> > There's also the option of building your own phone out of components.
>>>> The
>>>> > thread has some info. I'm guessing most here would prefer a PinePhone.
>>>> >
>>>> >> But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>   https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv
>>>> >
>>>> > That's probably a good source of code. bhgv is a freelance programmer
>>>> who
>>>> > was very interested in Inferno and made several improvements including
>>>> > Truetype fonts. The last I heard was he tried to find paid work
>>>> involving
>>>> > Inferno but couldn't, so he didn't have time to work on it.

------------------------------------------
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T39aec8f3f9d8503d-Mc3b25dbbddfd8754a6656ddc
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  8:52                   ` Conor Williams
@ 2021-09-20  8:58                     ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-20 11:06                       ` Conor Williams
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Conor Williams @ 2021-09-20  8:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5329 bytes --]

and dr john nelson in University Limerick -- a fine reputable uni down
south ireland (with
loads of good professor types and students (most of them anyways)
stole my fyp and bought me lunch and said nothing about nothing and then
told me to
fuck off over the phone when i was enquiring about doing a phd which i will
and has links into the psychaitric system and they keep locking me up to
hide their slimy pasts
and that my friends is not the end of that parrticular conundrum... keep
posted on irc... will let
u know what channel /c:202109200858:51

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:52 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
wrote:

> and tim roberts on an unrelated topic is a bunch of un-ethical hackers
> diminishing the intellect of the humanity /c:202109200851
> hack the planet my fiends...
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:45 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> i figured out the random hack which messed me up 12 years ago 2 days ago
>> /c:f20
>> and the buda bug is fixed on my system - took me 3 days strait to find
>> it...
>> and the fuseblk hack took a while /c:2021
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:39 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> if it is a vfat filesystem it is ok....
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:37 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> some of the fuseblk disc/k drivers/modules on peppermint which is a
>>>> flavour of ubuntu
>>>> are not even in the kernel space and there are mount.XYZ processes left
>>>> open which are
>>>> wide open to attack (with # fuser -p <PID>) /c09
>>>> for those chips tings
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:24 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i think the main reason people are willing to fall for the android
>>>>> platform is bec. there is no good long-term supply of updated phone
>>>>> hardware with backwards-compatible interfaces.
>>>>>
>>>>> a lot of qualcomm and mediatek chipsets are being built, but instead
>>>>> of documentation they only ship half-baked linux drivers, which are
>>>>> often not even mainlined.
>>>>>
>>>>> those linux drivers are already hard to make work on actual linux
>>>>> distributions, or even on android distributions.
>>>>>
>>>>> who wants to reverse-engineer the hardware over and over again based
>>>>> on such linux drivers...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/20/21, Ethan Gardener <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>>>> > tl;dr: forget inferno, port plan 9 to the pine phone.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:
>>>>> >> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I had to laugh at one of the slides. Inferno running natively on "x86
>>>>> > supercomputer"? I think implementing multicore support would be a
>>>>> first
>>>>> > step, not to mention 64-bit! While it would be nice if those jobs
>>>>> were done,
>>>>> > they will take time and effort. Overall, if porting natively, I see
>>>>> little
>>>>> > sense in preferring Inferno to Plan 9, especially as Plan 9 already
>>>>> supports
>>>>> > 64-bit multicore.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Sadly, not.  One issue is that modern Android releases don't
>>>>> >> support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was
>>>>> >> attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Recalling the issues Hellaphone had and the time it took, I'm of the
>>>>> opinion
>>>>> > that getting Inferno to work on any given phone's Linux kernel is
>>>>> hardly
>>>>> > more worthwhile than porting it directly to the hardware. The
>>>>> kernels have
>>>>> > undocumented interfaces.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > A current thread on OSdev (operating system development) forums is
>>>>> looking
>>>>> > at phones. It's a little rambly, but it reports on some encouraging
>>>>> things.
>>>>> > Lots of "baseband processors" (the phone-network communication
>>>>> subsystems)
>>>>> > have documented interfaces. There are at least 2 phones available
>>>>> now which
>>>>> > are fully open for operating system development: the PinePhone and
>>>>> the
>>>>> > Librem 5. (5 is the screen size.) Of the 2, the Pine Phone seems
>>>>> better, not
>>>>> > least because it can boot from the SD card; useful for testing.
>>>>> > https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53251
>>>>> >
>>>>> > There's also the option of building your own phone out of
>>>>> components. The
>>>>> > thread has some info. I'm guessing most here would prefer a
>>>>> PinePhone.
>>>>> >> But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>   https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv
>>>>> >
>>>>> > That's probably a good source of code. bhgv is a freelance
>>>>> programmer who
>>>>> > was very interested in Inferno and made several improvements
>>>>> including
>>>>> > Truetype fonts. The last I heard was he tried to find paid work
>>>>> involving
>>>>> > Inferno but couldn't, so he didn't have time to work on it.

------------------------------------------
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Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T39aec8f3f9d8503d-M637e0db04daf78a5d2805f76
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  7:51         ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-09-20  8:23           ` hiro
@ 2021-09-20 11:05           ` sirjofri
  2021-09-20 11:08             ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-21  9:25             ` Ethan Gardener
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-09-20 11:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

9front on pinephone is actually a project I'm interested in. I checked 
out some details:

The pinephone boot loader can boot from ext4 partition, so it seems 
possible. We'd have to use some ext4 filesystem (eg the one made by 
sigrid) and add it to the boot filesystem.

With a bit of luck (and proper arm compatibility) we can then get a 
9front pinephone booting, maybe even with some screen. I expect many 
things to not work (networking, touchscreen, WAN and lots of other phone 
hardware stuff), but if we get the base system running and some 
networking we already have something usable.

The most complex task is designing a proper plan 9-worthy touchscreen 
interface and developing apps for that.

sirjofri

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  8:58                     ` Conor Williams
@ 2021-09-20 11:06                       ` Conor Williams
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Conor Williams @ 2021-09-20 11:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5956 bytes --]

ethan you think your no-one driver/mobule is not too bad
i also something something something /c2021081105:37

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:58 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
wrote:

> and dr john nelson in University Limerick -- a fine reputable uni down
> south ireland (with
> loads of good professor types and students (most of them anyways)
> stole my fyp and bought me lunch and said nothing about nothing and then
> told me to
> fuck off over the phone when i was enquiring about doing a phd which i will
> and has links into the psychaitric system and they keep locking me up to
> hide their slimy pasts
> and that my friends is not the end of that parrticular conundrum... keep
> posted on irc... will let
> u know what channel /c:202109200858:51
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:52 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> and tim roberts on an unrelated topic is a bunch of un-ethical hackers
>> diminishing the intellect of the humanity /c:202109200851
>> hack the planet my fiends...
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:45 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> i figured out the random hack which messed me up 12 years ago 2 days ago
>>> /c:f20
>>> and the buda bug is fixed on my system - took me 3 days strait to find
>>> it...
>>> and the fuseblk hack took a while /c:2021
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:39 AM Conor Williams <conor.williams@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> if it is a vfat filesystem it is ok....
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:37 AM Conor Williams <
>>>> conor.williams@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> some of the fuseblk disc/k drivers/modules on peppermint which is a
>>>>> flavour of ubuntu
>>>>> are not even in the kernel space and there are mount.XYZ processes
>>>>> left open which are
>>>>> wide open to attack (with # fuser -p <PID>) /c09
>>>>> for those chips tings
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:24 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> i think the main reason people are willing to fall for the android
>>>>>> platform is bec. there is no good long-term supply of updated phone
>>>>>> hardware with backwards-compatible interfaces.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a lot of qualcomm and mediatek chipsets are being built, but instead
>>>>>> of documentation they only ship half-baked linux drivers, which are
>>>>>> often not even mainlined.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> those linux drivers are already hard to make work on actual linux
>>>>>> distributions, or even on android distributions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> who wants to reverse-engineer the hardware over and over again based
>>>>>> on such linux drivers...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/20/21, Ethan Gardener <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>>>>> > tl;dr: forget inferno, port plan 9 to the pine phone.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:
>>>>>> >> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>> >> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I had to laugh at one of the slides. Inferno running natively on
>>>>>> "x86
>>>>>> > supercomputer"? I think implementing multicore support would be a
>>>>>> first
>>>>>> > step, not to mention 64-bit! While it would be nice if those jobs
>>>>>> were done,
>>>>>> > they will take time and effort. Overall, if porting natively, I see
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> > sense in preferring Inferno to Plan 9, especially as Plan 9 already
>>>>>> supports
>>>>>> > 64-bit multicore.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Sadly, not.  One issue is that modern Android releases don't
>>>>>> >> support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was
>>>>>> >> attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Recalling the issues Hellaphone had and the time it took, I'm of
>>>>>> the opinion
>>>>>> > that getting Inferno to work on any given phone's Linux kernel is
>>>>>> hardly
>>>>>> > more worthwhile than porting it directly to the hardware. The
>>>>>> kernels have
>>>>>> > undocumented interfaces.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > A current thread on OSdev (operating system development) forums is
>>>>>> looking
>>>>>> > at phones. It's a little rambly, but it reports on some encouraging
>>>>>> things.
>>>>>> > Lots of "baseband processors" (the phone-network communication
>>>>>> subsystems)
>>>>>> > have documented interfaces. There are at least 2 phones available
>>>>>> now which
>>>>>> > are fully open for operating system development: the PinePhone and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > Librem 5. (5 is the screen size.) Of the 2, the Pine Phone seems
>>>>>> better, not
>>>>>> > least because it can boot from the SD card; useful for testing.
>>>>>> > https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53251
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > There's also the option of building your own phone out of
>>>>>> components. The
>>>>>> > thread has some info. I'm guessing most here would prefer a
>>>>>> PinePhone.
>>>>>> >> But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>   https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > That's probably a good source of code. bhgv is a freelance
>>>>>> programmer who
>>>>>> > was very interested in Inferno and made several improvements
>>>>>> including
>>>>>> > Truetype fonts. The last I heard was he tried to find paid work
>>>>>> involving
>>>>>> > Inferno but couldn't, so he didn't have time to work on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 9fans: 9fans
>>>>>> Permalink:
>>>>>> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T39aec8f3f9d8503d-M0f66e73ea984adbad982f776
>>>>>> Delivery options:
>>>>>> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
>>>>>>

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20 11:05           ` sirjofri
@ 2021-09-20 11:08             ` Conor Williams
  2021-09-20 14:01               ` sirjofri
  2021-09-21  9:25             ` Ethan Gardener
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread
From: Conor Williams @ 2021-09-20 11:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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ext2 is around much longer and seems to use the same driver mount thingy on
pmint

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:06 AM sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de>
wrote:

> 9front on pinephone is actually a project I'm interested in. I checked
> out some details:
> 
> The pinephone boot loader can boot from ext4 partition, so it seems
> possible. We'd have to use some ext4 filesystem (eg the one made by
> sigrid) and add it to the boot filesystem.
> 
> With a bit of luck (and proper arm compatibility) we can then get a
> 9front pinephone booting, maybe even with some screen. I expect many
> things to not work (networking, touchscreen, WAN and lots of other phone
> hardware stuff), but if we get the base system running and some
> networking we already have something usable.
> 
> The most complex task is designing a proper plan 9-worthy touchscreen
> interface and developing apps for that.
> 
> sirjofri

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20 11:08             ` Conor Williams
@ 2021-09-20 14:01               ` sirjofri
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-09-20 14:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Re ext2:

Afaik sigrids ext stuff also supports ext4, and only ext4 (and a non-ext 
format) is mentioned on the supported filesystems list on the pinephone 
wiki.

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* Re: [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  5:11         ` vidak
@ 2021-09-20 15:02           ` ori
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2021-09-20 15:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth vidak@riseup.net:
> Can I suggest a GSoC idea project?

You can suggest, but.. *checks calendar* it
no longer appears to be summer.

You might be better off just writing the code
instead of waiting for next year.


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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20  8:23           ` hiro
  2021-09-20  8:37             ` Conor Williams
@ 2021-09-21  9:01             ` Ethan Gardener
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-09-21  9:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 9:23 AM, hiro wrote:
> i think the main reason people are willing to fall for the android
> platform is bec. there is no good long-term supply of updated phone
> hardware with backwards-compatible interfaces.

Probably, but when do Linux kernel interfaces remain backwards-compatible? :) I've seen the sysfs battery-monitoring files change beyond all recognition.

> a lot of qualcomm and mediatek chipsets are being built, but instead
> of documentation they only ship half-baked linux drivers, which are
> often not even mainlined.
>
> those linux drivers are already hard to make work on actual linux
> distributions, or even on android distributions.
>
> who wants to reverse-engineer the hardware over and over again based
> on such linux drivers...

Quite, but feeling such pressure may be based on a false perspective. I've had 3 phones in the last 8 years, and I've upgraded to avoid falling too far behind with Android rather than carrier changes or hardware failures. The first of my 3 phones is capable of 4G, so I could have upgraded only once or even not at all. It's still in perfect condition. If you're not concerned with keeping up with Android or feeding poor impoverished phone manufacturers and the many shareholders who depend on them, ;-) then upgrading once every 5 years is entirely fine and once every 10 years may be acceptable. I think that cuts down the workload a bit. :)

On the other hand, using parts of Android is a way to make use of hardware you already value. I keep trying to think of ways to use my 8 year old phone because it's the only phone I've ever had with adequate sound quality. Perhaps I should just ask about sound quality on... maybe XDA forums or something.

> On 9/20/21, Ethan Gardener <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> tl;dr: forget inferno, port plan 9 to the pine phone.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:
>>> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere?
>>> >
>>> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf
>>
>> I had to laugh at one of the slides. Inferno running natively on "x86
>> supercomputer"? I think implementing multicore support would be a first
>> step, not to mention 64-bit! While it would be nice if those jobs were done,
>> they will take time and effort. Overall, if porting natively, I see little
>> sense in preferring Inferno to Plan 9, especially as Plan 9 already supports
>> 64-bit multicore.
>>
>>> Sadly, not.  One issue is that modern Android releases don't
>>> support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was
>>> attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since).
>>
>> Recalling the issues Hellaphone had and the time it took, I'm of the opinion
>> that getting Inferno to work on any given phone's Linux kernel is hardly
>> more worthwhile than porting it directly to the hardware. The kernels have
>> undocumented interfaces.
>>
>> A current thread on OSdev (operating system development) forums is looking
>> at phones. It's a little rambly, but it reports on some encouraging things.
>> Lots of "baseband processors" (the phone-network communication subsystems)
>> have documented interfaces. There are at least 2 phones available now which
>> are fully open for operating system development: the PinePhone and the
>> Librem 5. (5 is the screen size.) Of the 2, the Pine Phone seems better, not
>> least because it can boot from the SD card; useful for testing.
>> https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53251
>>
>> There's also the option of building your own phone out of components. The
>> thread has some info. I'm guessing most here would prefer a PinePhone.
>>
>>> But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here:
>>>
>>>   https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv
>> 
>> That's probably a good source of code. bhgv is a freelance programmer who
>> was very interested in Inferno and made several improvements including
>> Truetype fonts. The last I heard was he tried to find paid work involving
>> Inferno but couldn't, so he didn't have time to work on it.

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* Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas
  2021-09-20 11:05           ` sirjofri
  2021-09-20 11:08             ` Conor Williams
@ 2021-09-21  9:25             ` Ethan Gardener
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-09-21  9:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 12:05 PM, sirjofri wrote:
> 9front on pinephone is actually a project I'm interested in. I checked 
> out some details:
>
> The pinephone boot loader can boot from ext4 partition, so it seems 
> possible. We'd have to use some ext4 filesystem (eg the one made by 
> sigrid) and add it to the boot filesystem.
>
> With a bit of luck (and proper arm compatibility) we can then get a 
> 9front pinephone booting, maybe even with some screen. I expect many 
> things to not work (networking, touchscreen, WAN and lots of other phone 
> hardware stuff), but if we get the base system running and some 
> networking we already have something usable.

It'll be interesting to see how it goes. :) The pinephone's docking bar supports wired ethernet which will likely ease development.

> The most complex task is designing a proper plan 9-worthy touchscreen 
> interface and developing apps for that.

What do you think of p9p's support for multitouch as an alternative to chords? I recall it was well-received.

Ooh! Pine64 have announced they're developing a keyboard inspired by the Psion series 4. I was just thinking a keyboard would reduce the need for a clever interface.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-09-21  9:25 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 46+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-01-29 19:23 [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 Anthony Sorace
2021-02-01  0:31 ` ~vidak
2021-02-01  9:35   ` sirjofri
2021-02-01 11:07     ` svaderaa
2021-02-01 11:26   ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-02  1:15     ` raingloom
2021-02-01  7:16 ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) cigar562hfsp952fans
2021-02-01 20:46   ` Steve Simon
2021-02-03 14:14     ` Ethan Gardener
2021-02-01 21:47   ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas sirjofri
2021-02-03 14:07     ` Ethan Gardener
2021-08-06 16:25     ` Jack Johnson
2021-08-19 21:06       ` unobe
2021-09-20  4:52       ` [9fans] " cigar562hfsp952fans
2021-09-20  5:08         ` Conor Williams
2021-09-20  5:11         ` vidak
2021-09-20 15:02           ` ori
2021-09-20  5:43       ` [9fans] " Dave Eckhardt
2021-09-20  7:51         ` Ethan Gardener
2021-09-20  8:23           ` hiro
2021-09-20  8:37             ` Conor Williams
2021-09-20  8:39               ` Conor Williams
2021-09-20  8:45                 ` Conor Williams
2021-09-20  8:52                   ` Conor Williams
2021-09-20  8:58                     ` Conor Williams
2021-09-20 11:06                       ` Conor Williams
2021-09-21  9:01             ` Ethan Gardener
2021-09-20 11:05           ` sirjofri
2021-09-20 11:08             ` Conor Williams
2021-09-20 14:01               ` sirjofri
2021-09-21  9:25             ` Ethan Gardener
2021-02-02  8:29   ` [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) tlaronde
2021-02-03 15:07     ` Ethan Gardener
2021-01-19 11:08       ` pouya+lists.9fans
2021-02-03 18:58         ` Ethan Gardener
2021-02-06  2:17     ` David Arroyo
2021-02-03 18:26   ` ori
2021-02-03 23:31   ` Skip Tavakkolian
2021-02-05 16:42   ` Ethan Gardener
2021-02-07 22:59     ` [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas cigar562hfsp952fans
2021-02-09  0:26       ` Steve Simon
2021-02-09  1:59         ` [9fans] " Jeff Sickel
2021-02-09  0:34       ` [9fans] " Ethan Gardener
2021-02-02  5:30 ` [9fans] Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 ori
2021-02-02 10:40 ` [9fans] Project idea (was: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021) sirjofri
2021-02-02 16:07 ` [9fans] Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021 Jeff Sickel

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