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identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="bounce+f18fc9.08547a-9fans=9fans.net@mg.wilsonb.com"; helo=m42-5.mailgun.net; client-ip=69.72.42.5 Received: from m42-5.mailgun.net (m42-5.mailgun.net [69.72.42.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 18 Dec 2025 10:51:02 -0500 (EST) X-Mailgun-Sid: WyIzMzIyZiIsIjlmYW5zQDlmYW5zLm5ldCIsIjA4NTQ3YSJd Received: from wilsonb.com (42.203.199.104.bc.googleusercontent.com [104.199.203.42]) by a97ade09b8561e8212027b548ed69964eee5bfb44324b744552f9fe0c3d59ea9 with SMTP id 694422e5efb6b0d55fc4901d (version=TLS1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256); Thu, 18 Dec 2025 15:51:01 GMT X-Mailgun-Sending-Ip: 69.72.42.5 Sender: quiekaizam=wilsonb.com@mg.wilsonb.com Received: from ehlo.thunderbird.net (flh2-133-200-159-199.tky.mesh.ad.jp [133.200.159.199]) by wilsonb.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 628C5A5370; Thu, 18 Dec 2025 15:50:59 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2025 00:50:59 +0900 To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>, Shawn Rutledge Subject: Re: [9fans] Why does utfutf() exist? User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <2ae07915-6e27-49f6-9424-d3eacc73e9e7@posixcafe.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=----991TUHKQ9Y7B5MDX26USED5K2XFU0Q Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: moderate: sender is a member; group holds all messages Topicbox-Message-UUID: 5bf6f664-dc29-11f0-8f1d-75786bc11ef0 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UODgzMTA3M2Y4YjhiYjM1MS1NYjcxZjBiNmMzNGI5OGY4OWM3OTUy?= =?UTF-8?B?NDM0Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> From: "quiekaizam via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Mb71f0b6c34b98f89c7952434:0:6Wqs4QuMi0gQaYMS8Hczb9_BjaFigKaGS9WCZek8Yjg ------991TUHKQ9Y7B5MDX26USED5K2XFU0Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I would assume converting to a rune would turn out the same either way: This sounds wrong to me. IIUC Runes are just Unicode code points. Glyphs ma= y have multiple representations in Unicode, of which your =C3=BC is a good = example. Mapping these representations together is a question of Unicode no= rmalization, however, and involves lots of fiddly questions whose answers a= re specific to the particular use case. As such, conversation to Runes cann= ot reasonably perform normalization AFAIU. 2025=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=8818=E6=97=A5 18:53:35 JST=E3=80=81Shawn Rutledge =E3=82=88=E3=82=8A: >> On Dec 17, 2025, at 22:17, Jacob Moody wrote: >>=20 >> I've been poking at some of the utf* functions lately and utfutf is a bi= t puzzling. >> At face value, strstr() should be sufficient for handling utf8 encoded s= trings just as strcmp() is. >=20 > Maybe normalization could be the reason: there can be multiple representa= tions, for example, =C3=BC might be one code point (Unicode: U+00FC, UTF-8:= C3 BC), or might be u with a combining umlaut. I would assume converting = to a rune would turn out the same either way: then you can compare them eve= n if the haystack is represented one way in utf8 and the needle is the othe= r way. (Disclaimer: I=E2=80=99m not a unicode expert, even less so on 9) >=20 ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T8831073f8b8bb351-Mb71f0= b6c34b98f89c7952434 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription ------991TUHKQ9Y7B5MDX26USED5K2XFU0Q Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>  I would a= ssume converting to a rune would turn out the same either way:

T= his sounds wrong to me. IIUC Runes are just Unicode code points. Glyphs may= have multiple representations in Unicode, of which your ü is a good e= xample. Mapping these representations together is a question of Unicode nor= malization, however, and involves lots of fiddly questions whose answers ar= e specific to the particular use case. As such, conversation to Runes canno= t reasonably perform normalization AFAIU.


2025年12月18日 18:53:35 JST&= #x3001;Shawn Rutledge <lists@ecloud.org> より:
=

On Dec 17,=
 2025, at 22:17, Jacob Moody <moody@posixcafe.org> wrote:

=
I've been poking at some of the utf* functions lately and utfutf is a b=
it puzzling.
At face value, strstr() should be sufficient for handling=
 utf8 encoded strings just as strcmp() is.

Maybe normalization could be the reason: there can be multi=
ple representations, for example, ü might be one code point (Unicode: =
U+00FC, UTF-8: C3 BC), or might be u with a combining umlaut.  I would assu=
me converting to a rune would turn out the same either way: then you can co=
mpare them even if the haystack is represented one way in utf8 and the need=
le is the other way.  (Disclaimer: I’m not a unicode expert, even les=
s so on 9)
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