From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: =?gb2312?B?wfXT7rGm?= To: "9fans@9fans.net" <9fans@9fans.net> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 08:22:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1529530542.3279707.1414877304.5B04A2FD@webmail.messagingengine.com> , <1529593878.3612180.1415740504.2BF0C5B8@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1529593878.3612180.1415740504.2BF0C5B8@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BJXPR01MB027765197512BDAABB7680EDD44B0BJXPR01MB0277CHNP_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [9fans] What are you using Plan 9 for? 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> I'd also add ctrl-x/c/v, and perhaps a prefix key to e= nter control codes.

> (I guess alt-x nnnn works already, but I know the keys= .)


Some days ago I wanted to input "\r" in Rio term window, spent ab= out half an hour to figure out what the prefix key was, or some special syn= tax in rc,  finally I gave up,  used "Ctrl-m" instead.<= /div>

Regards,
Yubao Liu

From: 9fans-bounces@9fans= .net <9fans-bounces@9fans.net> on behalf of Ethan A. Gardener <eek= ee57@fastmail.fm>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:11 PM
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: Re: [9fans] What are you using Plan 9 for?
 
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, at 8:20 AM, Mart Zirnask wro= te:
> On 21/06/2018, Ethan A. Gardener <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote: > >... I no longer have a desk of
> > the right proportions to make mouse use comfortable, and can no l= onger bend
> > over a laptop for hours on end, (a Thinkpad with 3 buttons,) text= editing in
> > Plan 9 has become unpleasant. I could patch Samterm and Rio to ma= ke it more
> > comfortable, but it's not worth it.
>
> Would you mind elaborating on these ideas?

Not at all. The first thing I would do is make it so Samterm keeps Sam's sn= arf buffer in sync with Rio's. I know it's sometimes useful to have the two= separate buffers, but I so often want to copy between the editor and other= windows that for me, it's an immense pain. An alternate, possibly better idea would be to add commands to Sam, = equivalent to >cat>/dev/snarf and <cat</dev/snarf . I've only j= ust thought of those commands, I think I'd try to implement them first, bec= ause synchronizing the snarf buffers is not entirely straightforward (if I remember right,) and menus...

Menus! Grarrr I hate you, go away! Not entirely, I like them when they remi= nd me of stuff, but every time I use one I have to Stop. And. Look. At. It.= Not wonderful when wanting to get on with the job, or to not lose my focus= . It matters less now I'm trying to relax, but I have experienced pie menus and found them a brilliant solu= tion to exactly this problem, up to a point.

I would not want to jam window lists (Sam's or Rio's) into an infinite seri= es of pie menus because, speaking from experience, nesting pie menus beyond= two levels more than negates the benefits. Given that I'd normally have pi= e menus with 8 elements, for the button-3 menus of both programs I'd have 5 elements in a semi-circle attac= hed to the side of a normal vertical menu containing the window list. (It w= ould have to warp the pointer so it comes up in the center of the pie (or h= alf-pie), there's no point making a pie if it doesn't do that.)

I'd also add ctrl-x/c/v, and perhaps a prefix key to enter control codes. (= I guess alt-x nnnn works already, but I know the keys.)

I think that's all my actual requirements for making Sam comfortable. It's = window management is a little fussy, but it doesn't annoy me the way Acme's= can. Acme makes assumptions about workflow which are only rarely valid in = my usage, and I can't see how to improve it without scrapping its entire window system premise, and startin= g again. Sam might be improved with a simple paned arrangement, but not lik= e acme in that the panes are relatively fixed. Still, I prefer overlapping = windows on a small screen, despite the extra fuss of managing them. With the way my eyesight is going, that m= ight soon be any screen. (That reminds me, I never did get around to portin= g ESpeak to Plan 9. It's supposedly C++, but IIRC the only actual C= ++ was in the RiscOS-specific parts. I remember very C-like code, anyway.)

Almost forgot: I also had an idea for a second control window for Sam. The = idea is that you enter commands into it, but they're not executed immediate= ly. Instead, when you button-2 click, the entire line is executed. In Acme,= I found myself frequently re-using commands. This would make that easy in Sam too -- or easier, rather. You c= an already snarf and send, but snarfing isn't so quick -- see above. 9front= added chording to Samterm, but it's not reliable when I use it; needs a bi= t of fixing.


Speaking of menus reminding me of stuff, sometimes I lc /bin/games to remin= d me what games exist, which was my primary use for a launcher menu in Linu= x. I don't play many of them often. I like Plan 9's hierarchical /bin. It's= a shame it's not very simple to union mount more than one level in Plan 9.

>
> Something I've been thinking along the same lines:
> Inferno's shell allows one to add custom buttons to a shell window. > See more here:
> http://debu.gs/entries/interlude-inferno-at-work

A fun idea. :) Acme is similarly flexible, of course, and my Forth junk def= initely will be.

Remarking on parts of that article:

"After that, starting up Inferno and hitting command-F (to run Inferno= full-screen) makes the Mac look like an Inferno terminal. Perfect! I can l= ie to myself about what=A1=AFs actually running on the computer."
This is what I did with my Mac. :) I don't hate its native interface but it= is a bit dumb. Before I ever started using Plan 9 on it, I tried Linux but= it was more hassle than necessary, and some hardware didn't work. I put OS= X back on, (10.4, one of the best versions,) used its control panel, wifi setup, and nothing else except the= X server full-screen. It was the best of both worlds, I loved it! :) Later= , I variously ran Inferno, P9P Acme, and drawterm full-screen, usually with= an external mouse. (It doesn't do multi-touch.)

>
> This could be used to add shortcuts to common/more complicated text > editing tasks in Inferno's sh + sam -d.
> I'm not sure if this would free one from using a 3-button mouse, thoug= h.

Didn't someone praise modern trackpads in this thread? In the dim and dista= nt past, (at least a whole year ago,) I recall a multitouch patch appearing= for P9P. I think it entirely eliminated the need for a 3-button mouse. I'm= sure it could be reasonably applied to Inferno, and to Drawterm if it hasn't already.

--
I regret nothing except my new-found capitalization policies.

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