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Sun, 22 Aug 2021 06:44:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <92764e35-f5cf-460a-91df-050ba471e6dd@sirjofri.de> In-Reply-To: <92764e35-f5cf-460a-91df-050ba471e6dd@sirjofri.de> From: Paul Lalonde Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 06:44:45 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] Drawterm GPU (was: Software philosophy) To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000256ec905ca261b69" Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 2908166e-034f-11ec-9884-8e8dd4d36a78 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYWQyOWJmYzIyM2RjNGZiZS1NNWY1ZmMzZWZmMjZlODAyMDQ3ZGJj?= =?UTF-8?B?NjlkPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M5f5fc3eff26e802047dbc69d:1:L6clJJx-OsQ5WZ3ZWrLK7dw9aYvg3lba9_l5_id_36o --000000000000256ec905ca261b69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd love to see GPU support for Plan9. This discussion falls right into my professional capacity. I'll say that people generally *grossly* underestimate the complexity of a modern GPU and of its supporting software stack. The GPU driver is effectively a second operating system with shared memory and DMA interfaces to the host. Even bringing up a modern GPU for just compute tasks is a very large endeavour. That being said, if you want real hardware support, the best place to start is currently AMD's open-source stack. Ignoring the Vulkan bit, understanding their platform abstraction layer (PAL) and shader ISA ( https://developer.amd.com/wp-content/resources/Vega_Shader_ISA_28July2017.p= df) is the base. The lower hardware levels are reasonably well-described in linux's libdrm and its AMD support in amdgpu. Opinions on how to bring this to Plan9? I don't really have any - it's a huge pile of work with minimal benefit. If you're looking for lightweight graphics, WebGL is a doable path, and almost certainly the right way to experiment with Plan9-like interfaces to graphics hardware. Paul On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 5:30 AM sirjofri wrote: > > 22.08.2021 14:10:20 Stuart Morrow : > > Also: > >> people have discussed that for years > > > > They have? I mean I might have seen occasionally someone vaguely > > going "some sort of GPU support would be cool to have". That isn't > > discussion. >=20 > I've even heard of someone actually making GPU stuff work on plan 9. I've > only heard from their partner, who made a cute glenda thing on a piece of > cloth. I chatted with her a little and told her she should encourage her > partner for some discussion about this in our channels. It looked like > it's some academic work, but I don't know any details about it. >=20 > Worst case, someone already has a proper and good GPU implementation for > Plan 9 and nobody knows about it. >=20 > sirjofri >=20 > Btw if the said person reads this: it would be nice to learn some > details. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tad29bfc223dc4fbe-M5f5fc= 3eff26e802047dbc69d Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --000000000000256ec905ca261b69 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd love to see  GPU support for Plan= 9.  This discussion falls right into my professional capacity.  I= 'll say that people generally *grossly* underestimate the complexity of= a modern GPU and of its supporting software stack.  The GPU driver is= effectively a second operating system with shared memory and DMA interface= s to the host.  Even bringing up a modern GPU for just compute tasks i= s a very large endeavour.

That being said, if you= want real hardware support, the best place to start is currently AMD's= open-source stack.  Ignoring the Vulkan bit, understanding their plat= form abstraction layer (PAL) and shader ISA (https://develop= er.amd.com/wp-content/resources/Vega_Shader_ISA_28July2017.pdf) is the = base.  The lower hardware levels are reasonably well-described in= linux's libdrm and its AMD support in amdgpu.

Opinions on how to bring this to Plan9?  I don't really have an= y - it's a huge pile of work with minimal benefit.  If you're = looking for lightweight graphics, WebGL is a doable path, and almost certai= nly the right way to experiment with Plan9-like interfaces to graphics hard= ware.

Paul



On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 5:30 AM sirjofri <sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de> wrote:
=

22.08.2021 14:10:20 Stuart Morrow <morrow.stuart@gmail.com>:
> Also:
>> people have discussed that for years
>
> They have?  I mean I might have seen occasionally someone vaguely=
> going "some sort of GPU support would be cool to have". = ; That isn't
> discussion.

I've even heard of someone actually making GPU stuff work on plan 9. I&= #39;ve
only heard from their partner, who made a cute glenda thing on a piece of <= br /> cloth. I chatted with her a little and told her she should encourage her partner for some discussion about this in our channels. It looked like
it's some academic work, but I don't know any details about it.

Worst case, someone already has a proper and good GPU implementation for Plan 9 and nobody knows about it.

sirjofri

Btw if the said person reads this: it would be nice to learn some
details.

------------------------------------------
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