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* [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
@ 2020-11-14  0:30 a
  2020-11-14  0:56 ` a
  2020-11-14  9:35 ` Richard Miller
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: a @ 2020-11-14  0:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

I've got two Pi 4 with 1GB RAM and one with 4GB.  All are running the
same firmware.  Using the same SD card in both, based on the image
currently in contrib/miller, the Pi with 4GB behaves normally, while
those with 1GB reboots after a while, seemingly spontaneously, while
sitting idle.  I don't have a serial console on the Pis and haven't
been able to otherwise capture a panic.

Also, perhaps related, in those with 1GB, I can't manage to get
display_rotate to work; if I set it, I get no video.  I have tested
that with multiple displays.

Anyone have any relevant info?

Anthony

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14  0:30 [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM a
@ 2020-11-14  0:56 ` a
  2020-11-14  9:35 ` Richard Miller
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: a @ 2020-11-14  0:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Sigh. Dependent *on* ram.

I should also point out that I'm not
doing anything noteworthy in config.txt;
I believe the only changes were HDMI
settings.

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14  0:30 [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM a
  2020-11-14  0:56 ` a
@ 2020-11-14  9:35 ` Richard Miller
  2020-11-14 11:14   ` Steve Simon
  2020-11-18 23:13   ` Anthony Sorace
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2020-11-14  9:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> reboots after a while, seemingly spontaneously

The pi4 is very sensitive to power supply voltage. Are you using
an "official" pi4 power supply (5.2v)?  I had to go through several
power supplies for my pi4 cluster until I found one which would keep
them stable (40W Anker PowerPort 5).


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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14  9:35 ` Richard Miller
@ 2020-11-14 11:14   ` Steve Simon
  2020-11-14 11:24     ` Richard Miller
  2020-11-14 11:24     ` Richard Miller
  2020-11-18 23:13   ` Anthony Sorace
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Steve Simon @ 2020-11-14 11:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> The pi4 is very sensitive to power supply voltage. 

absolutely,

i had loads of problems with a lowly pi3+ until i tried an old ipad charger (2.5A i think), it has been stable since.

-Steve
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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14 11:14   ` Steve Simon
@ 2020-11-14 11:24     ` Richard Miller
  2020-11-14 14:48       ` hiro
  2020-11-14 11:24     ` Richard Miller
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2020-11-14 11:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> i had loads of problems with a lowly pi3+ until i tried an old ipad charger

My desktop pi3b+ is currently running on a tablet charger (which was fine
for the pi2b). It shows the lightning bolt icon on the screen constantly,
but runs stably.

The pi4 flashes the red power LED to indicate undervoltage, so you can look
out for that if you don't have a monitor to see the lightning bolt on.


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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14 11:14   ` Steve Simon
  2020-11-14 11:24     ` Richard Miller
@ 2020-11-14 11:24     ` Richard Miller
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2020-11-14 11:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> i had loads of problems with a lowly pi3+ until i tried an old ipad charger

My desktop pi3b+ is currently running on a tablet charger (which was fine
for the pi2b). It shows the lightning bolt icon on the screen constantly,
but runs stably.

The pi4 flashes the red power LED to indicate undervoltage, so you can look
out for that if you don't have a monitor to see the lightning bolt on.


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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14 11:24     ` Richard Miller
@ 2020-11-14 14:48       ` hiro
  2020-11-14 15:05         ` Richard Miller
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2020-11-14 14:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

from the hardware point of view...

i never had a single problem with pi4 power rails or it's RAM.
if we're lucky this might be just your pi. while rare, memory does
fail sometimes...

What doesn't work here is the usb-c power supply, so i have used a
crappier mobile phone charger with a passive USB-A -> c adaptor.
Luckily the current draw is lower than expected so it worked out.

also, lots of problems with wifi, the usb, the hdmi and the bluetooth
(on linux).
they seem to all interfere with each other on the physical level in
many ways, so i've only been able to use 1-2 of these systems at the
same time without crazy connection problems (thus i recommend saving
your time and not bothering to ever try and get the wifi or bluetooth
to work on plan9, it only makes things worse).

stable network, stable system for my purposes reminds me of my old
kirkwood devices.
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ uptime
 14:40:02 up 217 days, 19:57,  4 users,  load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14 14:48       ` hiro
@ 2020-11-14 15:05         ` Richard Miller
  2020-11-14 15:12           ` hiro
  2020-11-14 15:29           ` [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM Richard Miller
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2020-11-14 15:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> i recommend saving
> your time and not bothering to ever try and get the wifi or bluetooth
> to work on plan9

Wifi works fine on pi3 and pi4, in my experience.

Bluetooth works well when it works, but my driver missing some error
recovery code so it's only reliable in favourable conditions (short
range, no interference).


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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14 15:05         ` Richard Miller
@ 2020-11-14 15:12           ` hiro
  2020-11-14 16:58             ` Bakul Shah
  2020-11-14 15:29           ` [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM Richard Miller
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2020-11-14 15:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

well, for me hdmi reliably stops working when i turn on the bluetooth
keyboard and versa.
clearly RF interference was none of their concern when they made this chip.
if your monitor suggests a different pixel clock you might get lucky
and it's just good enough, but your signal quality is gonna suffer no
matter what

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14 15:05         ` Richard Miller
  2020-11-14 15:12           ` hiro
@ 2020-11-14 15:29           ` Richard Miller
  2020-11-14 16:15             ` hiro
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2020-11-14 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Wifi works fine on pi3 and pi4

To clarify, I meant "works fine on Plan 9 on pi3 and pi4".


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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14 15:29           ` [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM Richard Miller
@ 2020-11-14 16:15             ` hiro
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2020-11-14 16:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

well it's a hardware issue

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14 15:12           ` hiro
@ 2020-11-14 16:58             ` Bakul Shah
  2020-11-14 18:12               ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2020-11-14 16:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

There were reports of 2560x1440 res generating RF noise in the 2.4GHz band wifi channel 1. The proposed solution (by Eben Upton) was to use channel 4 or higher or use 5GHz wifi band at this res. And supposedly there is a firmware fix for this. No idea about the bluetooth issue. You should report these issues either on their forum or one of their github repos.

> On Nov 14, 2020, at 7:14 AM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> well, for me hdmi reliably stops working when i turn on the bluetooth
> keyboard and versa.
> clearly RF interference was none of their concern when they made this chip.
> if your monitor suggests a different pixel clock you might get lucky
> and it's just good enough, but your signal quality is gonna suffer no
> matter what

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14 16:58             ` Bakul Shah
@ 2020-11-14 18:12               ` hiro
  2020-11-22 10:48                 ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2020-11-14 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

well they have FCC compliance, so i'd hope it's just internal
interference due to lack of rf separation on the board. unless the fcc
test is so busted that they were able to activate a less-problematic
pixel clock and never tried the full possible range? :D

since i don't have a github account i don't think they will listen to
me about my issues with the device.

but anyway they should hire an RF engineer and not me. if they tried
the common combinations at all they should have noticed themselves, no
?

i have been using 4k@60hz when i experienced my problem, bluetooth
cannot be switched to 5ghz.

i'm just happy it works at all, i was just gonna return it otherwise
like i did with the earlier rpi version. don't have time to make
bug-wishlists for future raspberry christmas trees (took them 8 years
already to make the first rpi with working ethernet+usb).

On 11/14/20, Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
> There were reports of 2560x1440 res generating RF noise in the 2.4GHz band
> wifi channel 1. The proposed solution (by Eben Upton) was to use channel 4
> or higher or use 5GHz wifi band at this res. And supposedly there is a
> firmware fix for this. No idea about the bluetooth issue. You should report
> these issues either on their forum or one of their github repos.
>
>> On Nov 14, 2020, at 7:14 AM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> well, for me hdmi reliably stops working when i turn on the bluetooth
>> keyboard and versa.
>> clearly RF interference was none of their concern when they made this
>> chip.
>> if your monitor suggests a different pixel clock you might get lucky
>> and it's just good enough, but your signal quality is gonna suffer no
>> matter what

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14  9:35 ` Richard Miller
  2020-11-14 11:14   ` Steve Simon
@ 2020-11-18 23:13   ` Anthony Sorace
  2020-11-19  0:15     ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
                       ` (2 more replies)
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Anthony Sorace @ 2020-11-18 23:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Richard asked:
> The pi4 is very sensitive to power supply voltage. Are you using
> an "official" pi4 power supply (5.2v)?

Yes; same power supply on the 4GB and 1GB models. That is, same exact
unit, on the same outlet. I had all sorts of problems with my first several Pi
and know better than to mess around with that now.

> The pi4 flashes the red power LED to indicate undervoltage, so you can look
> out for that if you don't have a monitor to see the lightning bolt on.

Is this lightning bolt a hardware feature? Like, it overlays it on the display,
even on Plan 9? I've never seen it. I'll watch for the power LED indicator.

I've also got the bad behavior on two different 1GB models, so it's at least
pretty unlikely to be a hardware issue.

Then this went other places. Is anyone else running a 4GB Pi 4 with Richard's
latest kernel, successfully? Terminal or cpu?



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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-18 23:13   ` Anthony Sorace
@ 2020-11-19  0:15     ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
  2020-11-19  7:37       ` Steve Simon
  2020-11-19  8:27     ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2020-11-20 23:05     ` Stuart Morrow
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: Thaddeus Woskowiak @ 2020-11-19  0:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:
> > Richard asked:
...
> Is this lightning bolt a hardware feature? Like, it overlays it on the display,
> even on Plan 9? I've never seen it. I'll watch for the power LED indicator.

Correct. Though I have not seen them on my pi 3b+ running both
Miller's pi and 9front as I use the same honkin brick Richard
mentioned and 1m anker usb-c cables. See this official post on the
subject: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/introducing-pixel/

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-19  0:15     ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
@ 2020-11-19  7:37       ` Steve Simon
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Steve Simon @ 2020-11-19  7:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


not the same but i am just building up a pi3b+ server running Richard’s current kernel. i have a lightning bolt onscreen and occasional red led flashes but so far it has bern absolutely reliable.

the only areas of minor problems: wifi does not always connect, and if it fails it needs a power cycle, and fshalt -r can leave it wedged, again needing a power cycle.

-Steve


> On 19 Nov 2020, at 12:16 am, Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:
>>> Richard asked:
> ...
>> Is this lightning bolt a hardware feature? Like, it overlays it on the display,
>> even on Plan 9? I've never seen it. I'll watch for the power LED indicator.
> 
> Correct. Though I have not seen them on my pi 3b+ running both
> Miller's pi and 9front as I use the same honkin brick Richard
> mentioned and 1m anker usb-c cables. See this official post on the
> subject: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/introducing-pixel/

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-18 23:13   ` Anthony Sorace
  2020-11-19  0:15     ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
@ 2020-11-19  8:27     ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2020-11-20 23:05     ` Stuart Morrow
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2020-11-19  8:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1604 bytes --]

I've been using an RPI4B with 4GB as my main term for several months. It
pxe boots (no SD card) and I leave the session on, but run screenlock to
guard against cat walk (pun?). It has rebooted once, but I'm pretty sure it
was due to power fluctuations (didn't see it happen). I built the kernel on
May 31st, with the latest patches at the time.


On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 3:17 PM Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:

> > Richard asked:
> > The pi4 is very sensitive to power supply voltage. Are you using
> > an "official" pi4 power supply (5.2v)?
>
> Yes; same power supply on the 4GB and 1GB models. That is, same exact
> unit, on the same outlet. I had all sorts of problems with my first
> several Pi
> and know better than to mess around with that now.
>
> > The pi4 flashes the red power LED to indicate undervoltage, so you can
> look
> > out for that if you don't have a monitor to see the lightning bolt on.
> 
> Is this lightning bolt a hardware feature? Like, it overlays it on the
> display,
> even on Plan 9? I've never seen it. I'll watch for the power LED indicator.
> 
> I've also got the bad behavior on two different 1GB models, so it's at
> least
> pretty unlikely to be a hardware issue.
> 
> Then this went other places. Is anyone else running a 4GB Pi 4 with
> Richard's
> latest kernel, successfully? Terminal or cpu?
> 

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-18 23:13   ` Anthony Sorace
  2020-11-19  0:15     ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
  2020-11-19  8:27     ` Skip Tavakkolian
@ 2020-11-20 23:05     ` Stuart Morrow
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Stuart Morrow @ 2020-11-20 23:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Is this lightning bolt a hardware feature? Like, it overlays it on the
> display, even on Plan 9?

Well yes, but actually no:
https://ownyourbits.com/2019/02/02/whats-wrong-with-the-raspberry-pi/

There's an OS involved.

Also I ordered a 1GB compute module without thinking of this thread.

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* Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM
  2020-11-14 18:12               ` hiro
@ 2020-11-22 10:48                 ` hiro
  2020-11-23 22:46                   ` [9fans] node-red Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 20+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2020-11-22 10:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

i should not have said anything

[11561053.235151] xhci_hcd 0000:01:00.0: @000000001ed0c6e0 00000000
00000000 0e000000 02048000
[11572206.218075] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
[11572207.738154] bcmgenet fd580000.genet eth0: Link is Down
[11572211.898285] bcmgenet fd580000.genet eth0: Link is Up -
1Gbps/Full - flow control off
[11572212.458226] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
[11585621.202242] xhci_hcd 0000:01:00.0: ERROR Transfer event for
disabled endpoint slot 2 ep 3

gonna move back to my seagate dockstar (kirkwood) for this thing :(
at least then the rpi is free for a stateless 9front terminal again
(easier to reboot when there's problems like the above :()

On 11/14/20, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> well they have FCC compliance, so i'd hope it's just internal
> interference due to lack of rf separation on the board. unless the fcc
> test is so busted that they were able to activate a less-problematic
> pixel clock and never tried the full possible range? :D
>
> since i don't have a github account i don't think they will listen to
> me about my issues with the device.
>
> but anyway they should hire an RF engineer and not me. if they tried
> the common combinations at all they should have noticed themselves, no
> ?
>
> i have been using 4k@60hz when i experienced my problem, bluetooth
> cannot be switched to 5ghz.
>
> i'm just happy it works at all, i was just gonna return it otherwise
> like i did with the earlier rpi version. don't have time to make
> bug-wishlists for future raspberry christmas trees (took them 8 years
> already to make the first rpi with working ethernet+usb).
>
> On 11/14/20, Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>> There were reports of 2560x1440 res generating RF noise in the 2.4GHz
>> band
>> wifi channel 1. The proposed solution (by Eben Upton) was to use channel
>> 4
>> or higher or use 5GHz wifi band at this res. And supposedly there is a
>> firmware fix for this. No idea about the bluetooth issue. You should
>> report
>> these issues either on their forum or one of their github repos.
>>
>>> On Nov 14, 2020, at 7:14 AM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> well, for me hdmi reliably stops working when i turn on the bluetooth
>>> keyboard and versa.
>>> clearly RF interference was none of their concern when they made this
>>> chip.
>>> if your monitor suggests a different pixel clock you might get lucky
>>> and it's just good enough, but your signal quality is gonna suffer no
>>> matter what

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* [9fans] node-red
  2020-11-22 10:48                 ` hiro
@ 2020-11-23 22:46                   ` Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2020-11-23 22:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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I saw a comment on Hackaday by someone who uses 25 Pis (all running node-red) on a manufacturing line 24/7, producing ~60K parts a day. Another commenter talked about a setup involving 100 or so Pis on shop floor. Lots of people using pi+node-red combination for all sorts of things. Looks like one can work around Pi's shortcomings if there is a real app!

Something like node-red would be a fun project for plan9. With a graph editor as a frontend - I suspect sure such a thing doesn't exist for plan9. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeN7g4bdHiM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Node-RED
https://nodered.org/

> On Nov 22, 2020, at 2:48 AM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> i should not have said anything
> 
> [11561053.235151] xhci_hcd 0000:01:00.0: @000000001ed0c6e0 00000000
> 00000000 0e000000 02048000
> [11572206.218075] Under-voltage detected! (0x00050005)
> [11572207.738154] bcmgenet fd580000.genet eth0: Link is Down
> [11572211.898285] bcmgenet fd580000.genet eth0: Link is Up -
> 1Gbps/Full - flow control off
> [11572212.458226] Voltage normalised (0x00000000)
> [11585621.202242] xhci_hcd 0000:01:00.0: ERROR Transfer event for
> disabled endpoint slot 2 ep 3
> 
> gonna move back to my seagate dockstar (kirkwood) for this thing :(
> at least then the rpi is free for a stateless 9front terminal again
> (easier to reboot when there's problems like the above :()
> 
> On 11/14/20, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com <mailto:23hiro@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> well they have FCC compliance, so i'd hope it's just internal
>> interference due to lack of rf separation on the board. unless the fcc
>> test is so busted that they were able to activate a less-problematic
>> pixel clock and never tried the full possible range? :D
>> 
>> since i don't have a github account i don't think they will listen to
>> me about my issues with the device.
>> 
>> but anyway they should hire an RF engineer and not me. if they tried
>> the common combinations at all they should have noticed themselves, no
>> ?
>> 
>> i have been using 4k@60hz when i experienced my problem, bluetooth
>> cannot be switched to 5ghz.
>> 
>> i'm just happy it works at all, i was just gonna return it otherwise
>> like i did with the earlier rpi version. don't have time to make
>> bug-wishlists for future raspberry christmas trees (took them 8 years
>> already to make the first rpi with working ethernet+usb).
>> 
>> On 11/14/20, Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>>> There were reports of 2560x1440 res generating RF noise in the 2.4GHz
>>> band
>>> wifi channel 1. The proposed solution (by Eben Upton) was to use channel
>>> 4
>>> or higher or use 5GHz wifi band at this res. And supposedly there is a
>>> firmware fix for this. No idea about the bluetooth issue. You should
>>> report
>>> these issues either on their forum or one of their github repos.
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 14, 2020, at 7:14 AM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> well, for me hdmi reliably stops working when i turn on the bluetooth
>>>> keyboard and versa.
>>>> clearly RF interference was none of their concern when they made this
>>>> chip.
>>>> if your monitor suggests a different pixel clock you might get lucky
>>>> and it's just good enough, but your signal quality is gonna suffer no
>>>> matter what
> 
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-11-23 22:46 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 20+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-11-14  0:30 [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM a
2020-11-14  0:56 ` a
2020-11-14  9:35 ` Richard Miller
2020-11-14 11:14   ` Steve Simon
2020-11-14 11:24     ` Richard Miller
2020-11-14 14:48       ` hiro
2020-11-14 15:05         ` Richard Miller
2020-11-14 15:12           ` hiro
2020-11-14 16:58             ` Bakul Shah
2020-11-14 18:12               ` hiro
2020-11-22 10:48                 ` hiro
2020-11-23 22:46                   ` [9fans] node-red Bakul Shah
2020-11-14 15:29           ` [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM Richard Miller
2020-11-14 16:15             ` hiro
2020-11-14 11:24     ` Richard Miller
2020-11-18 23:13   ` Anthony Sorace
2020-11-19  0:15     ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
2020-11-19  7:37       ` Steve Simon
2020-11-19  8:27     ` Skip Tavakkolian
2020-11-20 23:05     ` Stuart Morrow

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