From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <52AF7017.4020700@lynxline.com> References: <52AF7017.4020700@lynxline.com> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 15:47:58 -0600 Message-ID: From: Blake McBride To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b86eae6e8f5d204edadc3a8 Subject: Re: [9fans] Ideas from Plan-9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9e658a2c-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --047d7b86eae6e8f5d204edadc3a8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I apologize for that statement. I made it before I knew of 9Front and 9Atom. From what I saw, the code hadn't changed in a long time, and wouldn't boot in any environment I had. All that is false when you take into account 9Front and 9Atom. I now have 9Front running fine, and, in fact, I am renewing a port of an OO language extension to it. Blake On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Oleksandr Iakovliev wrote: > On 2013-12-15 18:05 , Blake McBride wrote: > > In spite of some really great ideas, I think we'd all agree that Plan-9 > has no real future. > > > I would not agree about that. If you would try to have a look at coming > future tendencies, you would be notified that there is coming what is now > named as "internet of things" where a lot of material objects in your > environment will have very small chips which would like to communicate to > each other and so on (there are already "scary" news about arrested china > transport containers of electric-irons and kettles which have some extra > less 1cm chip/device to listen for open wifi nets and spy on them or do > whatever they are programmed ;) ). > > Another tendency which is not so clear now but it is also coming: > computers/devices/systems/grids which perform actions being same time what > is called interface-less (good example is your car which automatically > identify you by sensors and wireless key/cellphone in your pocket when you > touch cardoor and then system just unlocks that - lot of computations, > communications and same time interfaceless). > > When you try to add these two tendencies to each other it would look like > that the next generation OSes should be much close to Plan9/Inferno because > it should easily cover connectivity and inter-communications of these grids > of tens/hundred/thousands of chips/soc/devices per 10 cubic meters around > you or worldwide (btw you can just read story about "bad bios" and suspect > of ultrasonic communications). They(OS) should be simple regarding internal > design. Parallel programming, computing/resource sharing, CSP, etc is > highly required and should not be complicated as it is now in world of > Unix/Linux/MS/Apple and should be possible to be programmed by individuals > or small groups. > Why not MS/Apple-like solution - because then such "nets" will be closed > and not really manageable at all. > Why not Linux - it is already over-sized and overcomplicated and highly > resistive to design changes, so even an admin with 1meter beard cannot see > all especialities of these such system/nets and cannot administering such > grids manually. Also consider the security of these complicated systems as > effect of simplicity of design of each part. > Regarding Apps - Plan9/Inferno have "reverse" idea: instead of App to > support environment where it has to run, it makes the environment to fit > the App needs - much more productive, stable, manageable. > It should be something simple, easy to join in swarm. Then interface part > does not have such huge value - even if it is ms system with browser - this > part does not play "key" role anymore. Plan9/Inferno or their derivatives > now have great chance for resurrection aka phoenix, but not as your laptop > OS with nicely drawn weather/news widgets or animated icons, though even > this is possible. > > just my 2cents for what we may see next > --047d7b86eae6e8f5d204edadc3a8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I apologize for that statement. =A0I made it before I knew= of 9Front and 9Atom. =A0From what I saw, the code hadn't = changed in a long time, and wouldn't boot in any environment I had. =A0= All that is false when you take into account=A09Front and 9Atom. =A0I now h= ave 9Front running fine, and, in fact, I am renewing a port of an OO langua= ge extension to it.

Blake

<= br>
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Oleksand= r Iakovliev <yshurik@lynxline.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
On 2013-12-15 18:05 , Blake McBride wrote:
In spite of some really great ideas, I think = we'd all agree that Plan-9 has no real future.

I would not agree about that. If you would t= ry to have a look at coming future tendencies, you would be notified that there is coming what is now named as "internet of things" where a lot of material objects in your environment will have very small chips which would like to communicate to each other and so on (there are already "scary"= ; news about arrested china transport containers of electric-irons and kettles which have some extra less 1cm chip/device to listen for open wifi nets and spy on them or do whatever they are programmed ;) ).

Another tendency which is not so clear now but it is also coming: computers/devices/systems/grids which perform actions being same time what is called interface-less (good example is your car which automatically identify you by sensors and wireless key/cellphone in your pocket when you touch cardoor and then system just unlocks that - lot of computations, communications and same time interfaceless).

When you try to add these two tendencies to each other it would look like that the next generation OSes should be much close to Plan9/Inferno because it should easily cover connectivity and inter-communications of these grids of tens/hundred/thousands of chips/soc/devices per 10 cubic meters around you=A0 or worldwide (btw you can just read story about "bad bios" and suspect of ultra= sonic communications). They(OS) should be simple regarding internal design. Parallel programming, computing/resource sharing, CSP, etc is highly required and should not be complicated as it is now in world of Unix/Linux/MS/Apple and should be possible to be programmed by individuals or small groups.
Why not MS/Apple-like solution - because then such "nets" wil= l be closed and not really manageable at all.
Why not Linux - it is already over-sized and overcomplicated and highly resistive to design changes, so even an admin with 1meter beard cannot see all especialities of these such system/nets and cannot administering such grids manually. Also consider the security of these complicated systems as effect of simplicity of design of each part.
Regarding Apps - Plan9/Inferno have "reverse" idea: instead o= f App to support environment where it has to run, it makes the environment to fit the App needs - much more productive, stable, manageable.
It should be something simple, easy to join in swarm. Then interface part does not have such huge value - even if it is ms system with browser - this part does not play "key" role anymore. Plan9/I= nferno or their derivatives now have great chance for resurrection aka phoenix, but not as your laptop OS with nicely drawn weather/news widgets or animated icons, though even this is possible.

just my 2cents for what we may see next

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