MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Christiane Howard]

Hi Russ,

Please confirm receipt of this email. 
We haven’t received payment for anti-spam services provided to 9fans.net <http://9fans.net/>. 
I have attached the invoice which was also sent via intuit.com <http://intuit.com/> (please whitelist intuit.com <http://intuit.com/> if you are not receiving them and/or check your junk folder). 

We offer 4 ways to pay:

1) This only works if you received the invoice via intuit.com <http://intuit.com/>.
Quick Pay: Click on 'View Invoice' then 'Pay Now' to enter payment information (credit card or echeck) and keep it on file for fast recurring payments controlled by you. *Note: Allow (whitelist) intuit.com <http://intuit.com/> to ensure delivery of invoices and payment receipts; or

2) Credit Card Payment: https://billing.mailroute.net <https://billing.mailroute.net/> (for recurring monthly and annual payments applied by MailRoute). 

3) Check: Remittance address is at the top of invoice

4) ACH/Wire;
    Bank name: Mailroute, Inc. c/o Wells Fargo Bank, N.A.
    ABA routing # 122000247
    Account # 6301195175
    International SWIFT BIC: WFBIUS6S
***Please Note: MailRoute does not cover wire transfer fees. 

Thank you for choosing MailRoute. We appreciate your business.

Christiane Howard
MailRoute Billing Department
888-485-7726, Option 3
billing@mailroute.net <mailto:billing@mailroute.net>

Re: MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Russ Cox]

Hi Christiane,

I received your voicemail and just updated my credit card information
at billing.mailroute.net. Apologies for not noticing these emails
earlier. I've updated my mail filters to highlight them better.

Please let me know if you need anything more from me.

Best,
Russ

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 4:42 PM Christiane Howard <xian@mailroute.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Russ,
>
> Please confirm receipt of this email.
> We haven’t received payment for anti-spam services provided to 9fans.net.
> I have attached the invoice which was also sent via intuit.com (please whitelist intuit.com if you are not receiving them and/or check your junk folder).
>
>
>
> We offer 4 ways to pay:
>
> 1) This only works if you received the invoice via intuit.com.
> Quick Pay: Click on 'View Invoice' then 'Pay Now' to enter payment information (credit card or echeck) and keep it on file for fast recurring payments controlled by you. *Note: Allow (whitelist) intuit.com to ensure delivery of invoices and payment receipts; or
>
> 2) Credit Card Payment: https://billing.mailroute.net (for recurring monthly and annual payments applied by MailRoute).
>
> 3) Check: Remittance address is at the top of invoice
>
> 4) ACH/Wire;
>     Bank name: Mailroute, Inc. c/o Wells Fargo Bank, N.A.
>     ABA routing # 122000247
>     Account # 6301195175
>     International SWIFT BIC: WFBIUS6S
> ***Please Note: MailRoute does not cover wire transfer fees.
>
> Thank you for choosing MailRoute. We appreciate your business.
>
> Christiane Howard
> MailRoute Billing Department
> 888-485-7726, Option 3
> billing@mailroute.net

Re: MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Christiane Howard]

Thanks Russ. Your account is paid in full and I sent over a statement showing that for your records.


> On Aug 8, 2019, at 2:01 PM, Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Christiane,
> 
> I received your voicemail and just updated my credit card information
> at billing.mailroute.net. Apologies for not noticing these emails
> earlier. I've updated my mail filters to highlight them better.
> 
> Please let me know if you need anything more from me.
> 
> Best,
> Russ
> 
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 4:42 PM Christiane Howard <xian@mailroute.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Russ,
>> 
>> Please confirm receipt of this email.
>> We haven’t received payment for anti-spam services provided to 9fans.net.
>> I have attached the invoice which was also sent via intuit.com (please whitelist intuit.com if you are not receiving them and/or check your junk folder).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We offer 4 ways to pay:
>> 
>> 1) This only works if you received the invoice via intuit.com.
>> Quick Pay: Click on 'View Invoice' then 'Pay Now' to enter payment information (credit card or echeck) and keep it on file for fast recurring payments controlled by you. *Note: Allow (whitelist) intuit.com to ensure delivery of invoices and payment receipts; or
>> 
>> 2) Credit Card Payment: https://billing.mailroute.net (for recurring monthly and annual payments applied by MailRoute).
>> 
>> 3) Check: Remittance address is at the top of invoice
>> 
>> 4) ACH/Wire;
>>    Bank name: Mailroute, Inc. c/o Wells Fargo Bank, N.A.
>>    ABA routing # 122000247
>>    Account # 6301195175
>>    International SWIFT BIC: WFBIUS6S
>> ***Please Note: MailRoute does not cover wire transfer fees.
>> 
>> Thank you for choosing MailRoute. We appreciate your business.
>> 
>> Christiane Howard
>> MailRoute Billing Department
>> 888-485-7726, Option 3
>> billing@mailroute.net

Re: [9fans] MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Skip Tavakkolian]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1858 bytes --]

Anti-Spam-as-a-Service or ASaaS


On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 2:03 PM Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:

> Hi Christiane,
>
> I received your voicemail and just updated my credit card information
> at billing.mailroute.net. Apologies for not noticing these emails
> earlier. I've updated my mail filters to highlight them better.
>
> Please let me know if you need anything more from me.
>
> Best,
> Russ
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 4:42 PM Christiane Howard <xian@mailroute.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Russ,
> >
> > Please confirm receipt of this email.
> > We haven’t received payment for anti-spam services provided to 9fans.net
> .
> > I have attached the invoice which was also sent via intuit.com (please
> whitelist intuit.com if you are not receiving them and/or check your junk
> folder).
> >
> >
> >
> > We offer 4 ways to pay:
> >
> > 1) This only works if you received the invoice via intuit.com.
> > Quick Pay: Click on 'View Invoice' then 'Pay Now' to enter payment
> information (credit card or echeck) and keep it on file for fast recurring
> payments controlled by you. *Note: Allow (whitelist) intuit.com to ensure
> delivery of invoices and payment receipts; or
> >
> > 2) Credit Card Payment: https://billing.mailroute.net (for recurring
> monthly and annual payments applied by MailRoute).
> >
> > 3) Check: Remittance address is at the top of invoice
> >
> > 4) ACH/Wire;
> >     Bank name: Mailroute, Inc. c/o Wells Fargo Bank, N.A.
> >     ABA routing # 122000247
> >     Account # 6301195175
> >     International SWIFT BIC: WFBIUS6S
> > ***Please Note: MailRoute does not cover wire transfer fees.
> >
> > Thank you for choosing MailRoute. We appreciate your business.
> >
> > Christiane Howard
> > MailRoute Billing Department
> > 888-485-7726, Option 3
> > billing@mailroute.net
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3027 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Russ Cox]

[-mailroute]

Sorry about the spam to 9fans everyone. Not sure what made them think
to add 9fans to try to contact me, and I didn't notice it was CC'ed at
first.

Running the list through mailroute has been really great for spam
reduction. I'd still really love to move 9fans itself to a proper
mailing list hosting place that would do the full package of list
management and spam rejection, but those don't seem to exist anymore
other than Google Groups, and the last time I checked, it wasn't clear
I could make a public group on a custom domain there.

Mailing lists are not the cool thing anymore, I guess. So we muddle on
with mailroute and self-hosted mailman. Would be happy to hear about
alternatives, though.

Best,
Russ

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 11:00 PM Skip Tavakkolian
<skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anti-Spam-as-a-Service or ASaaS
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 2:03 PM Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Christiane,
>>
>> I received your voicemail and just updated my credit card information
>> at billing.mailroute.net. Apologies for not noticing these emails
>> earlier. I've updated my mail filters to highlight them better.
>>
>> Please let me know if you need anything more from me.
>>
>> Best,
>> Russ
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 4:42 PM Christiane Howard <xian@mailroute.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Russ,
>> >
>> > Please confirm receipt of this email.
>> > We haven’t received payment for anti-spam services provided to 9fans.net.
>> > I have attached the invoice which was also sent via intuit.com (please whitelist intuit.com if you are not receiving them and/or check your junk folder).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We offer 4 ways to pay:
>> >
>> > 1) This only works if you received the invoice via intuit.com.
>> > Quick Pay: Click on 'View Invoice' then 'Pay Now' to enter payment information (credit card or echeck) and keep it on file for fast recurring payments controlled by you. *Note: Allow (whitelist) intuit.com to ensure delivery of invoices and payment receipts; or
>> >
>> > 2) Credit Card Payment: https://billing.mailroute.net (for recurring monthly and annual payments applied by MailRoute).
>> >
>> > 3) Check: Remittance address is at the top of invoice
>> >
>> > 4) ACH/Wire;
>> >     Bank name: Mailroute, Inc. c/o Wells Fargo Bank, N.A.
>> >     ABA routing # 122000247
>> >     Account # 6301195175
>> >     International SWIFT BIC: WFBIUS6S
>> > ***Please Note: MailRoute does not cover wire transfer fees.
>> >
>> > Thank you for choosing MailRoute. We appreciate your business.
>> >
>> > Christiane Howard
>> > MailRoute Billing Department
>> > 888-485-7726, Option 3
>> > billing@mailroute.net
>>

Re: [9fans] MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Devon H. O'Dell]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5066 bytes --]

TL;DR: hosted lists aren’t really a thing anymore and anyone doing it is
unlikely to do a good job at it.

I used to work for an email service / software provider and recently asked
some contacts there about this (hosted lists) sort of thing. It's really
not so much that it's not a cool thing anymore so much as marketing and
transactional messages are the only ways to make money sending email. My
former colleagues said that everyone has gotten out of the list hosting
business because they can’t find a billing model that works.

Overhead in list management is pretty high for a few reasons. One is that
people who want easy-mode lists often tend to have high support costs. The
service also tends to get abused by spammers (who are happy to pay a
pittance to force-subscribe people to a list and blast out messages), which
is hugely expensive for ESPs. This is expensive because you can't colocate
lists in IPv4 space (otherwise spammer and good sender behind the same IP
results in good sender failing to deliver messages when the IP gets added
to a DNSBL). IPv6 space with poor reputation on just a few addresses tends
to have the entire allocation blocked.

Because of this, to run such a service, you need to charge fees that aren't
really commensurate with the service provided just to handle the support
cost for easy-mode folks, support cost for folks wondering why their list
suddenly no longer gets delivered to gmail users, costs associated with
acquiring additional address space, and costs associated with spending time
to validate your customers are acting in good faith. Barring some sudden
advance in deliverability/reputation management, I don’t think that
reputable companies who can do a good job delivering messages are going
back to list hosting.

I've thought about making an improved list management system for
self-hosting, but a combination of having already been scarred by worked in
email for half a decade and ENOTIME have impeded that. If anyone else is
interested, I could probably be convinced to spend some cycles to help.

--dho

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 07:29 Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:

> [-mailroute]
>
> Sorry about the spam to 9fans everyone. Not sure what made them think
> to add 9fans to try to contact me, and I didn't notice it was CC'ed at
> first.
>
> Running the list through mailroute has been really great for spam
> reduction. I'd still really love to move 9fans itself to a proper
> mailing list hosting place that would do the full package of list
> management and spam rejection, but those don't seem to exist anymore
> other than Google Groups, and the last time I checked, it wasn't clear
> I could make a public group on a custom domain there.
>
> Mailing lists are not the cool thing anymore, I guess. So we muddle on
> with mailroute and self-hosted mailman. Would be happy to hear about
> alternatives, though.
>
> Best,
> Russ
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 11:00 PM Skip Tavakkolian
> <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Anti-Spam-as-a-Service or ASaaS
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 2:03 PM Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Christiane,
> >>
> >> I received your voicemail and just updated my credit card information
> >> at billing.mailroute.net. Apologies for not noticing these emails
> >> earlier. I've updated my mail filters to highlight them better.
> >>
> >> Please let me know if you need anything more from me.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Russ
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 4:42 PM Christiane Howard <xian@mailroute.net>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Russ,
> >> >
> >> > Please confirm receipt of this email.
> >> > We haven’t received payment for anti-spam services provided to
> 9fans.net.
> >> > I have attached the invoice which was also sent via intuit.com
> (please whitelist intuit.com if you are not receiving them and/or check
> your junk folder).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > We offer 4 ways to pay:
> >> >
> >> > 1) This only works if you received the invoice via intuit.com.
> >> > Quick Pay: Click on 'View Invoice' then 'Pay Now' to enter payment
> information (credit card or echeck) and keep it on file for fast recurring
> payments controlled by you. *Note: Allow (whitelist) intuit.com to ensure
> delivery of invoices and payment receipts; or
> >> >
> >> > 2) Credit Card Payment: https://billing.mailroute.net (for recurring
> monthly and annual payments applied by MailRoute).
> >> >
> >> > 3) Check: Remittance address is at the top of invoice
> >> >
> >> > 4) ACH/Wire;
> >> >     Bank name: Mailroute, Inc. c/o Wells Fargo Bank, N.A.
> >> >     ABA routing # 122000247
> >> >     Account # 6301195175
> >> >     International SWIFT BIC: WFBIUS6S
> >> > ***Please Note: MailRoute does not cover wire transfer fees.
> >> >
> >> > Thank you for choosing MailRoute. We appreciate your business.
> >> >
> >> > Christiane Howard
> >> > MailRoute Billing Department
> >> > 888-485-7726, Option 3
> >> > billing@mailroute.net
> >>
>
>

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Re: [9fans] MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Skip Tavakkolian]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2057 bytes --]

that was a poor attempt at humor. i apologize.


On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 7:59 PM Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Anti-Spam-as-a-Service or ASaaS
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019, 2:03 PM Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Christiane,
>>
>> I received your voicemail and just updated my credit card information
>> at billing.mailroute.net. Apologies for not noticing these emails
>> earlier. I've updated my mail filters to highlight them better.
>>
>> Please let me know if you need anything more from me.
>>
>> Best,
>> Russ
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 4:42 PM Christiane Howard <xian@mailroute.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Russ,
>> >
>> > Please confirm receipt of this email.
>> > We haven’t received payment for anti-spam services provided to
>> 9fans.net.
>> > I have attached the invoice which was also sent via intuit.com (please
>> whitelist intuit.com if you are not receiving them and/or check your
>> junk folder).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We offer 4 ways to pay:
>> >
>> > 1) This only works if you received the invoice via intuit.com.
>> > Quick Pay: Click on 'View Invoice' then 'Pay Now' to enter payment
>> information (credit card or echeck) and keep it on file for fast recurring
>> payments controlled by you. *Note: Allow (whitelist) intuit.com to
>> ensure delivery of invoices and payment receipts; or
>> >
>> > 2) Credit Card Payment: https://billing.mailroute.net (for recurring
>> monthly and annual payments applied by MailRoute).
>> >
>> > 3) Check: Remittance address is at the top of invoice
>> >
>> > 4) ACH/Wire;
>> >     Bank name: Mailroute, Inc. c/o Wells Fargo Bank, N.A.
>> >     ABA routing # 122000247
>> >     Account # 6301195175
>> >     International SWIFT BIC: WFBIUS6S
>> > ***Please Note: MailRoute does not cover wire transfer fees.
>> >
>> > Thank you for choosing MailRoute. We appreciate your business.
>> >
>> > Christiane Howard
>> > MailRoute Billing Department
>> > 888-485-7726, Option 3
>> > billing@mailroute.net
>>
>>

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Re: [9fans] MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Skip Tavakkolian]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 138 bytes --]

Hi Russ,

May I ask what the monthly cost of mailroute-ing 9fans is?  I can't
decipher the pricing from their site.

Thanks,
-Skip

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 288 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Russ Cox]

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 2:02 PM Skip Tavakkolian
<skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
> May I ask what the monthly cost of mailroute-ing 9fans is?  I can't decipher the pricing from their site.

Nothing but good things to say about Mailroute.

They're mostly aimed at businesses with individual users.
When I contacted them way back in 2011 to ask about 9fans,
the owner said he had run Plan 9 on a Sparc at UCLA in 1993 (!)
and offered to treat the list as a simple two-user domain
since the list traffic is so low, plus a 10% referral discount that
was running at the time. That amounts to $54/year currently
(it started at $60/year but apparently the per-user price went down!).

The service has worked like clockwork ever since then, except when
my bank sends me a replacement credit card and the next January
the annual automatic billing fails and I don't notice the emails about it
(I'm really terrible at keeping up with email since having kids).
The fact that the list is billed as a "user" is probably why they
thought to try mailing it to reach me.

Best,
Russ

Re: [9fans] MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[tlaronde]

On Fri, Aug 09, 2019 at 03:19:49PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 2:02 PM Skip Tavakkolian
> <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
> > May I ask what the monthly cost of mailroute-ing 9fans is?  I can't decipher the pricing from their site.
>
> Nothing but good things to say about Mailroute.
>
> They're mostly aimed at businesses with individual users.
> When I contacted them way back in 2011 to ask about 9fans,
> the owner said he had run Plan 9 on a Sparc at UCLA in 1993 (!)
> and offered to treat the list as a simple two-user domain
> since the list traffic is so low, plus a 10% referral discount that
> was running at the time. That amounts to $54/year currently
> (it started at $60/year but apparently the per-user price went down!).
>
> The service has worked like clockwork ever since then, except when
> my bank sends me a replacement credit card and the next January
> the annual automatic billing fails and I don't notice the emails about it
> (I'm really terrible at keeping up with email since having kids).
> The fact that the list is billed as a "user" is probably why they
> thought to try mailing it to reach me.
>

Even if you consider that it is an acceptable cost for you---and thank
you, BTW, for this and other things---I, for one, won't object to give
something per year so that the plan9 discussions and work can be hosted
(and I mean, all that is done around plan9---I have used Bell Labs'; I
installed 9front---I just discovered that there is the possibility to
define bounties with 9front for proposed work...).
--
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                     http://www.kergis.com/
                       http://www.sbfa.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

Re: [9fans] MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Skip Tavakkolian]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1268 bytes --]

Thank you for everything that goes into 9fans' upkeep.

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 12:20 PM Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 2:02 PM Skip Tavakkolian
> <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
> > May I ask what the monthly cost of mailroute-ing 9fans is?  I can't
> decipher the pricing from their site.
>
> Nothing but good things to say about Mailroute.
>
> They're mostly aimed at businesses with individual users.
> When I contacted them way back in 2011 to ask about 9fans,
> the owner said he had run Plan 9 on a Sparc at UCLA in 1993 (!)
> and offered to treat the list as a simple two-user domain
> since the list traffic is so low, plus a 10% referral discount that
> was running at the time. That amounts to $54/year currently
> (it started at $60/year but apparently the per-user price went down!).
>
> The service has worked like clockwork ever since then, except when
> my bank sends me a replacement credit card and the next January
> the annual automatic billing fails and I don't notice the emails about it
> (I'm really terrible at keeping up with email since having kids).
> The fact that the list is billed as a "user" is probably why they
> thought to try mailing it to reach me.
>
> Best,
> Russ
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1688 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Lucio De Re]

On 8/9/19, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for everything that goes into 9fans' upkeep.
>
Let me add my own gratitude to Skip's. Not just to Russ, who clearly
does all the weight-lifting here, but everyone else that is keeping
9fans and thus everything-9 alive.

Honestly, I can't imagine what my life would be like without the
sanity of Plan 9 and its band of 9fans to preserve my own sanity.

Lucio.

Re: [9fans] MailRoute: Past Due Invoice for 9fans.net

[Calvin Morrison]

I suggest topicbox. ML as a service, spam filtering, plus I work
there. We can import old emails in without much work. I use it
internally for work. I don't really think about it. It works. Frontend
won't work on a browser without JS.

ex: http://illumos.topicbox.com/


Thanks
Calvin

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 at 01:01, Lucio De Re <lucio.dere@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 8/9/19, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thank you for everything that goes into 9fans' upkeep.
> >
> Let me add my own gratitude to Skip's. Not just to Russ, who clearly
> does all the weight-lifting here, but everyone else that is keeping
> 9fans and thus everything-9 alive.
>
> Honestly, I can't imagine what my life would be like without the
> sanity of Plan 9 and its band of 9fans to preserve my own sanity.
>
> Lucio.
>