From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob20.topicbox.com (tb-ob20.topicbox.com [173.228.157.66]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36A324CEE for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2024 22:42:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob20.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC77B2ED64 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2024 16:42:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bounce.mMec07348f737f68bed8fea253.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id 8B5DD15D8D76; Thu, 18 Apr 2024 16:42:40 -0400 (EDT) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=ZuEr3T3p header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=crossd@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f173.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :list-help:list-id:list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to :list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t=1713472960; bh=TzIeFKQ51KjNKi5o GfQutJyOTQ/1rYIWiB+G2JhAzYQ=; b=PKNOPUox0Cw7XDT6wywvYv8O/rt8utLS NJIFSHwlJQlj/KzcwnacHF8rftgIfIMkFBOJENRPZA18KK1XlafgIwwNKjwOzGzf mjCosLT44N4d9xvD+a33ovN7TRSAW8PrB3r8IaVSWTtbGXWxwDD3GO/j/fliGe1e eY1HhxdfDds= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1713472960; b=srh/6E9yt8xHte0abbxKPh3NJtiUa+1g/EcQ/CoHZEV14poC3W uMkBRmqEBdccGJTx6UAbU1t7yaZ/vWrdq5J2FFNlFruUFfBhWEgCrpm+HBAOMJ61 tKdqhDg41z9r6DFI07bs7XuwbSlLfFHHHw8iXCMNLY1if+FxXdXY9sUVc= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=ZuEr3T3p header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=crossd@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f173.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=ZuEr3T3p header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.208.173 (mail-lj1-f173.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=crossd@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f173.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=AzCRlc3s; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f173.google.com policy.ptr=mail-lj1-f173.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h= mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject :to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-help:list-id :list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; t=1713472960; x=1713559360; bh=Zhl6w2ndsFaKfBhU8RntCDdxfk9MWBjl 5yrhTqFP7j0=; b=DHuDDM4dRSooFgSPPENOWoYTzydV9T+vv0zBeNbHjLc0jER/ wXnfe4eRIqOba+36AfRrxDTwUHHD248wMiuqJHIyTdA6L1fbS2zyWyoaz3JnWwHk q9/8Jj/3iXqoVrgFDKky669TRPteutRuHwddC7PPULhA/8YdG86mTAV0Qrk= Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB21E1370170 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 18 Apr 2024 16:42:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from crossd@gmail.com) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id 685F3B2AE36; Thu, 18 Apr 2024 16:42:29 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1713472949; b=jJI0JsJjw8H4Mi0oJZoBIYcmv4wvgzZbJEvo4gjItBCvxniMpz GCijbFsMw7rhftdPgVqFBVJNkluK9MBWnJEmFgPJqTFVCZUwjL5mUCfw5y1pbXB9 y7lGpaZN5YZ8T6EAUMItW45TcNvp5mfQCY1OLbM+fkp3YxjvImTg6f3R8cUY2lfF bkRikj+RBF1jU16wj/eKphXX3gtfgtl9aXrbxzVh/LVeeikW0DHu4PjB5LhCzdhg Kw6MFBJYKQmE1WF491be+7HFVOX2GmKPeG0q6memtQz8Z2NupsL1FQ+vQMq16j8t IKEkzuUdQebWzDrMmWgcNXQ9jk+2k33+dmgg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=arcseal; t=1713472949; bh=Vb1iSUoIBT0uQTVpuaRbX7divarhElTnWqo 6UgrSXYg=; b=y4a6WhQEFsczxM/xp2dj5EvV+3N7X9veE8QP2MfukXlBm+H/ZsJ r/VALGqHT+mEjIMSQWEwbIaJBM2drnndTfzzPVB1tHOWneUOddQNOSb9JC3jMe7m kIHuJa4NbV33xDZRgKmF5IUobATTUh0uDpelxVUboQzQgtXxwhCBuHY/8lbOM3gt mDZwBSehxzN3beD0GAGvH2zRZxjojlgJt79FfCZ6CV14j2A7f56cBQTbCAxbvBv4 ppCTqW5njJVnHPIUu1cHp7J2N7+m7ksvqdI9J3ZFoHfgoXR+P1je4Rv6/o4pYDrI WbApDU5J3kdMH2c/dJNWE/4H0dgAlbrG5Ow== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=ZuEr3T3p header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.208.173 (mail-lj1-f173.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=crossd@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f173.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=AzCRlc3s; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f173.google.com policy.ptr=mail-lj1-f173.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrudektddgudehudcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdp uffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepgghfjg fhfffkuffvtgfgsehtqhertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpeffrghnucevrhhoshhsuceotghr ohhsshgusehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedttdegheetkeduke elgefhvdetieeitdekieeitefhkeehgfelffffjeekleekheenucffohhmrghinhepthho phhitggsohigrdgtohhmnecukfhppedvtdelrdekhedrvddtkedrudejfeenucevlhhush htvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpedvtdelrdekhedrvddtkedrudej fedphhgvlhhopehmrghilhdqlhhjuddqfhdujeefrdhgohhoghhlvgdrtghomhdpmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpeeotghrohhsshgusehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqedpnhgspghrtghpthhtohep uddprhgtphhtthhopeeolehfrghnsheslehfrghnshdrnhgvtheq X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'crossd@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx1.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="crossd@gmail.com"; helo=mail-lj1-f173.google.com; client-ip=209.85.208.173 Received: from mail-lj1-f173.google.com (mail-lj1-f173.google.com [209.85.208.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 18 Apr 2024 16:42:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from crossd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-f173.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2db17e876abso11935431fa.1 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 18 Apr 2024 13:42:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1713472948; x=1714077748; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Vb1iSUoIBT0uQTVpuaRbX7divarhElTnWqo6UgrSXYg=; b=AzCRlc3soa6SI7++0/qZJG6K49ocAAWaBMGpF9C8CkxLjA5x6wNI7QLPbzWzgKnk+R HT8hp1gm8NbzX3W1SBpVslN/xowHupj5lSPoaSXs1EslIHJVTKBHc/qEZ3KA7cNkCQ7X KUJl6jSJBFB41xmh0hfnF4c+9hV60H/9fvHShFOkL4ancgla6nynWu9V/ITworFpYOQ8 Yu5nhlVLkJlFUPWhgzlYKYZlUR5s1J14qbs5gvKf9AHrKi0TbW3F573NNmvB0DXGRee0 jWRZV8GE+/l2l1s3EgpBEEVJwvFi5e9yYeNDqRr9ZaAIqgDfD22Fl0nyrmjEWy+w8eP+ GOCg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzGcbRIAH9q8Ewcsj6/zkj0L5lUw4cI4jjj+vfI6+wATuts6QFp nWoVs+QbZ54sOqqINSSNQeFFGJKYRDU41tf2iSn89D8BshNDtKS6JJ1SFUBB1K9OGc7bASGX+os 6mQqfUszzXT4SF2SI5biNdaNGj7D1HQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEdfsyUQtR56IrgaEq1h1UlguaT9i8pyJnVcSPcy4c4pRM1Vdp4pWYy4QzqDLABnf7xQizHNC/mSWklxOs9c6w= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:3009:0:b0:2d8:5e21:8ec5 with SMTP id w9-20020a2e3009000000b002d85e218ec5mr41605ljw.48.1713472947424; Thu, 18 Apr 2024 13:42:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4AB7C637-0E7D-492E-AA3A-BEAA980B22BB@iitbombay.org> In-Reply-To: <4AB7C637-0E7D-492E-AA3A-BEAA980B22BB@iitbombay.org> From: Dan Cross Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 16:41:50 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] VCS on Plan9 To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 2f3b8c6a-fdc4-11ee-9933-aee6d41bc015 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYWIyNzE1YjBlNmYzZTBhNS1NZWMwNzM0OGY3MzdmNjhiZWQ4ZmVh?= =?UTF-8?B?MjUzPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Mec07348f737f68bed8fea253:1:zuTe94uWK8GEN78nody2darNPNwnNHo3hqWr8_eyKwE On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 4:27=E2=80=AFPM Bakul Shah via 9fans <9fans@9fans.n= et> wrote: > Did anyone try to port sccs to plan9? Interesting question; I suspect not. The only reason to have done so would have been to inspect source repositories created outside of plan 9, in which case it likely would have been more natural to do so via Unix (at least for the repositories I can think of that would have been adjacent). Culturally, there was a feeling that source revision a la RCS, SCCS, etc, were unnecessary because the dump filesystem gave you snapshots already. Moreover, those were automatic and covered more than one file at a time; RCS/SCCS required some discipline in that one had to remember to check in a new revision. And as Paul said, the idea of an atomic, multi-file changeset was revolutionary at the time. The downside of the filesystem approach for maintaining history is two-fold: 1) granularity. Typically the dump is only generated once a day, but often one would rather commit more frequently (or perhaps less so...) than that. 2) context. As it turns out, the ability to associate a changeset with a well-written commit message is very valuable. I have lost count of the number of times I've asked, "what was going on when _this_ code was written?" Having that directly available from the source repository is incredibly powerful. Thankfully, I doubt anyone is using the old patch mechanism anymore. Git and Jujitsu are, frankly, superior. - Dan C. > On Apr 18, 2024, at 9:11=E2=80=AFAM, Paul Lalonde wrote: > > The Bell Labs approach to source control was, I'm, weak. It relied on sn= apshots of the tree and out-of-band communication. Don't forget how small = and tight-knit that development team was, and how valuable perfect historic= snapshots were. > > Add that 40 years ago source code revision control systems were incredibl= y primitive. The idea of an atomic change set (in Unix land at least) was = revolutionary in the early 90s. > > This is one place where 35 years of evolution in software practices has v= ery much improved. > > Paul > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2024, 8:55=E2=80=AFa.m. certanan via 9fans <9fans@9fans.n= et> wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> is there any more "organic/natural" way to do source control on today's = Plan9 (9front specifically), other than Ori's Git? >>=20 >> In other words, how (if at all) did people at Bell Labs and the communit= y alike originally manage their contributions in a way that would allow the= m to create patches without much hassle? >>=20 >> Was it as simple as backing a source tree up, making some changes, and t= hen comparing the two? Venti? Replica? >>=20 >> tom > > > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permali= nk ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tab2715b0e6f3e0a5-Mec073= 48f737f68bed8fea253 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription