From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob0.topicbox.com (tb-ob0.topicbox.com [64.147.108.117]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D8026549 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2024 19:47:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C60E22449 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2024 14:47:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bounce.mM5172ccb429ebabb05ba2e9b6.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id 200FA11F7184; Sun, 17 Mar 2024 14:47:01 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h=from:to :message-id:date:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:list-help:list-id:list-post :list-subscribe:reply-to:subject:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; t= 1710701220; x=1710787620; bh=31lMm5P6xuRP780nNcXe1u5ZIhqG2Bbj6K+ LRBRv1Ig=; b=luVp+ZxLb+Myo14jYotUDL2AkfflYEJPiz7MsiygiX6rw+8vhDJ RDvfScREnIPAtI/8+sJ3tW0qvLmXc3++S7MzIF5uyrKG+Knaq/iYwqMlCUaivEB7 0Czm9ou3cHTeFU1r1DFiQ2mve+KA1qTeSMO1HX8tEQbjX1s8Rw5UP+p4= From: jubal.biggs@gmail.com To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Message-Id: <17107012140.3DDfA3.94831@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 14:46:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=17107012141.6D9B.94831 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: b9f1ddcc-e48e-11ee-bccf-876641decc0b Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYzA4MTE1NTUyMjgyYTBhMi1NNTE3MmNjYjQyOWViYWJiMDViYTJl?= =?UTF-8?B?OWI2Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: [9fans] VMX Cores List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M5172ccb429ebabb05ba2e9b6:1:zTSPVF2IMmBiek8-dvQTyj2z6hxfOpjFi4X44YcXtQM --17107012141.6D9B.94831 Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 14:46:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the man pages for VMX, it states under "bugs":=C2=A0 Currently only one core is supported. Does anyone know why this is? The inclusion of this under "bugs" alongside = the tendency to crash the kernel makes me think that VMX was originally int= ended to be able to leverage multiple cores and the author only got it "mos= tly working". Is there any documentation around what direction was going to= be taken with this?=C2=A0 ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tc08115552282a0a2-M5172c= cb429ebabb05ba2e9b6 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --17107012141.6D9B.94831 Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 14:46:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In the man pages for VMX, it states under &quo= t;bugs": 
      =
    Currently only one core is supported.
Does anyone know why this is? The inclusion of this under = "bugs" alongside the tendency to crash the kernel makes me think = that VMX was originally intended to be able to leverage multiple cores and = the author only got it "mostly working". Is there any documentati= on around what direction was going to be taken with this? 
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identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="cinap_lenrek@felloff.net"; helo=duke.felloff.net; client-ip=216.126.196.34 Received: from duke.felloff.net (duke.felloff.net [216.126.196.34]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for <9fans@9fans.net>; Sun, 17 Mar 2024 16:45:58 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from cinap_lenrek@felloff.net) Message-ID: <13FCA7C1E47C7879DAEF559AB19DEE5F@felloff.net> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 21:45:48 +0100 From: cinap_lenrek@felloff.net To: 9fans@9fans.net Subject: Re: [9fans] VMX Cores In-Reply-To: <17107012140.3DDfA3.94831@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 650fecde-e49f-11ee-bd61-75310a8c7b06 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYzA4MTE1NTUyMjgyYTBhMi1NNmFjNjIzNzk3YzUwNzQzY2Y5ZGU5?= =?UTF-8?B?MmFkPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M6ac623797c50743cf9de92ad:1:yKi-GVvmbq4S2zmrlDjGSo0T9Wtuw8YGl7DAKYLenyM for the kernel part, a devvmx vm *IS* a core basically and the physical memory that core sees is passed as a segment to the device. so having multiple cpu support should be fine without having even to change the kernel part, you just have multiple vmx instances share a memory segment. however, to be practical, you'd need to add emulation code for the apic interrupt controller as well provide acpi or mp tables... reason is a core is started with a inter processor interrupt thru the apic. the kernel discoveres the apics thru eigther MP tables or ACPI tables. and the processor comes up in real-mode, which might have some limitations in what hardware will emulate for us so a interpreter might be needed. (tho i'm not fully sure on this) (note, right now vmx has no BIOS and it implements each OS bootloader itself so it starts executing the kernel in 32 bit mode directly). i dont see vmx causing kernel crashes for me. however, i think the author meant to express is lack of confidence in the air-tightiness of vmx giving the zillions of architectual registers you have to setup to contain a guest. it is easy to forget to set some bit and everything works until someone manages to exploit that. patches welcome. -- cinap ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tc08115552282a0a2-M6ac62= 3797c50743cf9de92ad Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob1.topicbox.com (tb-ob1.topicbox.com [64.147.108.173]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 533A826932 for ; 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Mon, 18 Mar 2024 04:40:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <17107012140.3DDfA3.94831@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> <13FCA7C1E47C7879DAEF559AB19DEE5F@felloff.net> In-Reply-To: <13FCA7C1E47C7879DAEF559AB19DEE5F@felloff.net> From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 12:40:42 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] VMX Cores To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 643b0cf8-e51c-11ee-b2a8-bb5c28513ea5 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYzA4MTE1NTUyMjgyYTBhMi1NNjJjN2I3NmU1ZThhNzY2ZDdlY2M2?= =?UTF-8?B?MDFkPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M62c7b76e5e8a766d7ecc601d:1:QYejUIX7HP-J5nTHx79cC5YZr8yNN-w4zJZq_Bz8Xao > i dont see vmx causing kernel crashes for me. > however, i think the author meant to express is lack > of confidence in the air-tightiness of vmx giving > the zillions of architectual registers you have to > setup to contain a guest. it is easy to forget > to set some bit and everything works until someone > manages to exploit that. and not like any competitor has any great solution to that either. the hardware just never was built for such strong isolation to meaningfully prevent that kind of exploit. and if it did, there would still always be other side-channels. just less obvious ones (from today's pov). in terms of stability, my slowlaris hypervisor (their own vmx plus qemu) has finally reached some limit, which destroyed the guest kernel's interpretation of time, which created some centuries of timeshifting, waits don't fire any more, and suddenly i have 1000s days of uptime bec. it's like a hundred years later now. forced me to destroy this virtual computer and thus reboot the guest. :D stuff breaks. everywhere. vmx is small, so actually it might break less in some edge-cases. but yes, virtualization is one more layer, and the interfaces, drivers, aren't as minimal as they could be, so virtualization still sucks. even with all these hw optimizations now. still a neat hack, i guess if you want to implement multi-core vmx, a lot of firefox on vmx on plan9 users will be happy. otherwise, what do we need that needs multiple cores in a vm? ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tc08115552282a0a2-M62c7b= 76e5e8a766d7ecc601d Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription