From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob1.topicbox.com (tb-ob1.topicbox.com [64.147.108.173]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291EA268A0 for ; Wed, 15 May 2024 17:57:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D22142D344 for ; Wed, 15 May 2024 11:57:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bounce.mM7234c91e28ba41a8fbd73af7.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id CF8B317E9E67; Wed, 15 May 2024 11:57:11 -0400 (EDT) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=T1UsFJUX header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=23hiro@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-pj1-f51.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :list-help:list-id:list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to :list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t=1715788631; bh=GfPl1wnmd1gKPviV GJFNkWluxVbs79jIz5ujV1Gul50=; b=c+OSYLM8x8im4NPXzogDlNAnLxHVCaPZ /0Y2wXUwau8K5oVJTfR4a5tyn7fKnGK8VgCWHlu98HPMqbJYq768zJSvSxE8z7tO whKycwoFDUU46OjgdhJLo0ZKMF1FrmGCrQpPgIK1qDL3JFx3hTt3IVseSxIJYNqv p5T77Krrt8A= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1715788631; b=DuwrtZVR9AQpYGw3+FBNc2bLfN9ZV5OV2Fb5rnLJ5ATMnUTID9 Vcq0y5bA6qDFS85UXzCSCZwtP3cs5qUajaHkx1231HMebGrfOgGp+s6WGaYhyzoO mcqeuucBmKRhbHJfpmDS6Y/Czjsd+w+nVLcKtU198Gn9Db2rh/44inZeI= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=T1UsFJUX header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=23hiro@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-pj1-f51.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=T1UsFJUX header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.216.51 (mail-pj1-f51.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=23hiro@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-pj1-f51.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=GFXYzZLQ; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-pj1-f51.google.com policy.ptr=mail-pj1-f51.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h= mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject :to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:list-help:list-id :list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; t=1715788631; x=1715875031; bh=GfPl1wnmd1gKPviVGJFNkWluxVbs79jI z5ujV1Gul50=; b=Tm7eP1c02c37zwtqiDwpfZ6/rSrKFSL2y/2aVRNJoxBGoi8u s1ZVqZW+uCy3ptyTS6osa0ZbNgr9yaUf2QUF9RhPMMXM3w36R2Cn8SZi6sOimyni JzXuuxNsactWmI4o7dIGkVdDnN/jFQWfm2g4jxwHVU8XKprxPfHJ9pahG3s= Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA51817E95B0 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 15 May 2024 11:56:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from 23hiro@gmail.com) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id F75D8522CC4; Wed, 15 May 2024 11:56:53 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1715788613; b=ua8quFW6ZEjpTaydExIImj9ytBpMAeDA1uI8kw7qc5o0dufIo9 eMolVnWWS2419T7N+rYOE52761b6vko6cEE/2f0kqpi0in43eu2znQmF4T78gM/V o/b7ksl0WFTlOBjtSuzOtmE7if3bpBV7+hZor/M1LMdlNLtjf7jHnoGXt3zKskxU 6+3gNKEpkRM/VH0V8eV9yKjSmoPW0y5zgWxSo90ALeji/3UP4bSeoHVOK8Iyn2Fd qoe7nEBXUibktLtzIx7GVZ6AOqM6IlPfDniywc4uBkNU55RzDaaNrAb3g0oZCrpo +bCFGx3iJxAzNhlv6uU+Um/uLly8GODk34Ww== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=arcseal; t=1715788613; bh=s01rrFY9UJHiIMQ5JkVghC1uKz5ZfOoWjo6 +NZhhSOs=; b=MIOIYEAVhy6fPLutuxZSZbi2f41zZ2Ds7QweySqLiP3bFMu23iS rWFZ6XTXgP5MEQBm2LPTPEsjz4CHcNVuUPPz3mkf9rBdJYPw0lVzDQbeJiXNHe2Q JJVYugcyXc70gb45kVwKtI2RYnwYiPeg93kHWuxI9wN9eYbm2TdRKzfPdR2D7Apt 27+UjxX0o6UZoFi8Awf56eCZYbe6Q3r1MASeW3YloiPIuy9BrGYeGyVRDdcs82hm mzUh4XGxdHCPMo0i6Hn/hnc41Ld6gUjnN0o/hQTv84u+m1NkJFrUweERqzHHDRTt 6q1Pw5Yhi6P7taTtsbVw4sZ9vgkO2YVEiow== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=T1UsFJUX header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.216.51 (mail-pj1-f51.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=23hiro@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-pj1-f51.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=GFXYzZLQ; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-pj1-f51.google.com policy.ptr=mail-pj1-f51.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrvdegkedgledtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpeggfhgjhf ffkffuvfgtgfesthhqredttddtjeenucfhrhhomhephhhirhhouceovdefhhhirhhosehg mhgrihhlrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedtgfejtedtffegueeilefgteegke euieegveefheelheevfeeigeeulefftdffkeenucfkphepvddtledrkeehrddvudeirdeh udenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpedvtdelrdekhe drvdduiedrhedupdhhvghlohepmhgrihhlqdhpjhduqdhfhedurdhgohhoghhlvgdrtgho mhdpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeovdefhhhirhhosehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqedpnhgspghrtg hpthhtohepuddprhgtphhtthhopeeolehfrghnsheslehfrghnshdrnhgvtheq X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use '23hiro@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx0.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="23hiro@gmail.com"; helo=mail-pj1-f51.google.com; client-ip=209.85.216.51 Received: from mail-pj1-f51.google.com (mail-pj1-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 15 May 2024 11:56:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from 23hiro@gmail.com) Received: by mail-pj1-f51.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2b4b30702a5so1720148a91.1 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 15 May 2024 08:56:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1715788612; x=1716393412; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=s01rrFY9UJHiIMQ5JkVghC1uKz5ZfOoWjo6+NZhhSOs=; b=GFXYzZLQUexpFg83rf9NSo8NvO/dR8vV0pl+H/iTxaBHhMd5U8XBlrJr5grMkOSzkM A3TSkB/NhQTsYBAS0medgwoJW4o5u/ozYLvjWGhexRAJN2LIVi2X9z0KpeGukKv/Ruq/ NIFZk5VyTSP2oLFRwam+Q0NcOKlmpCSVlXMC21KMbEN0/dObiYRapjHVXdQ7qgewiQVe qnRxDmr48HV3y4IsyxvdshHyxYXfOn7c4CBN6RzKo90wnG5BdHR45xRe83vppes5w6SV NfBP1zizmYqd67YWgnDM7v3a85s2CcqO77MY8u2egSdzJegd25IPu7Iz/J+WKAMDqoVE N50A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwVaTUt6l24gmdIJVBADkCUnIAu+A+QaKNUBB6/ERW77B5G9nJZ l9DSqRbcgOADxcIpdhsriZ4D/v4p6tFIPEmWMb3/blS8GtdOzenE8XbJCxQjWED1ySh19f4e+yO Yk9PanTORrH8+JVnuGFlhSgo054dQRYeBB7Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFWb3A8kac6Qa3XgCTN2+PKZqDdI2UOlhyoccbUWpW7XPWA/VYou5E8ACgrhY/4iltdY+JNkuQBhyrLwA0TjLs= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:2389:b0:2b1:99fd:4eea with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2b6ccd7d042mr16148532a91.2.1715788612507; Wed, 15 May 2024 08:56:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4FB3A3BB-1CFA-4BC7-9DC2-CC9138B8325C@gmail.com> <2ff4cb73-352f-44e1-844b-5bb6cc92e1fe@posixcafe.org> <04a0afc1-6440-47b3-957c-0071ad88b117@posixcafe.org> In-Reply-To: From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 May 2024 17:56:39 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9. To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: c2d3a88a-12d3-11ef-9cfa-ea5e098c7b06 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYWQzZGMwYzkzMDM5YTdkMi1NNzIzNGM5MWUyOGJhNDFhOGZiZDcz?= =?UTF-8?B?YWY3Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M7234c91e28ba41a8fbd73af7:1:KZe9rJbNxVeE-fCeFW5JBmYnZWU7GVnsJxPWrSBgoe8 > This is part of the issue I've had with 9front. If there are valid reason= s for things to disappear or not be used, that's OK. But please document th= em and provide rationale/evidence for their removal. and i agree that we should hold everybody to this standard. Preferably a big change like this should be mentioned in a verbose commit message, and maybe in the release notes. the problem is that this removal was kind of the joke that started 9front, and back then these kinds of jokes were not documented well yet and a good release process had not been established yet. when it turned out that the joke that was 9front was better than all the serious bizznezz competition, over time, (maybe accidentally?) professionalism set in. i would presume that nowadays there would be better notice in this regard to explain to all the many users in detail (back then there were just few) what awaits them in each release. yes, 9front was trolling, to some extent, but the troll has turned into something extremely useful. > That way, even if another group chooses not to remove those items, they c= an learn from other teams' decision making. This is especially imperative f= or file system stability, for those that have not had trouble with Fossil, = but need to understand that it is problematic enough to be pulled from 9fro= nt. How was the lack-of-stability tested? To what degree was it tested? etc. agreed. i'm confident that most of the releases are taking this kind of approach nowadays. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tad3dc0c93039a7d2-M7234c= 91e28ba41a8fbd73af7 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription