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* [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
@ 2021-04-26 20:27 Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-04-26 21:16 ` hiro
                   ` (4 more replies)
  0 siblings, 5 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) @ 2021-04-26 20:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

Time to build out some proper infrastructure at home, and the
first order of business is the file+auth server.  I don't need
screaming fast performance, just something basic, and I have been
looking at some of the current crop of small form factor desktops,
along the lines of the Intel NUC.  (But I'm in no way married
to Intel.)

I'm curious in hearing from anybody ACTUALLY RUNNING on that sort
of machine.  The spec's I'm looking for are pretty minimal:

* amd64 arch.

* a gig-E port I can saturate.

* SATA-II SSD disk (2.5 inch is fine), preferably that will
  max out the SATA interface. PCIe/m.2/whatever is okay, as
  long as it works with the 9legacy kernel, but remember this
  is a file server, so I want to be able to pack a fair number
  of bytes into it, making $$$ an issue for non-SATA storage.

* >= 16GB RAM.

* 2 x USB1/2 (for kbd/mouse), USB-3 for external blu-ray writer.

* basic bitmap video (VGA/VESA is fine).

Thanks for any feedback you can give!

--lyndon

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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-26 20:27 [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
@ 2021-04-26 21:16 ` hiro
  2021-04-26 21:20   ` hiro
  2021-04-26 21:40   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-04-26 23:32 ` kokamoto
                   ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-04-26 21:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

sure you want just one sata disk for a fileserver? or is the worm all on bluray?

the thinkcentre on my desk here has exactly one nvme and one 2,5" slot
for sata inside.
i'm not sure it has usb2, but we have xhci support in 9front anyway so
that should cover it...
i think you can chose between some used intel (very cheap) and now
also newer ryzen...

it might be that you'll have to copy some patches into 9legacy first,
there were too many (esp. about xhci) to keep track for me.

On 4/26/21, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) <lyndon@orthanc.ca> wrote:
> Time to build out some proper infrastructure at home, and the
> first order of business is the file+auth server.  I don't need
> screaming fast performance, just something basic, and I have been
> looking at some of the current crop of small form factor desktops,
> along the lines of the Intel NUC.  (But I'm in no way married
> to Intel.)
> 
> I'm curious in hearing from anybody ACTUALLY RUNNING on that sort
> of machine.  The spec's I'm looking for are pretty minimal:
> 
> * amd64 arch.
> 
> * a gig-E port I can saturate.
> 
> * SATA-II SSD disk (2.5 inch is fine), preferably that will
>   max out the SATA interface. PCIe/m.2/whatever is okay, as
>   long as it works with the 9legacy kernel, but remember this
>   is a file server, so I want to be able to pack a fair number
>   of bytes into it, making $$$ an issue for non-SATA storage.
> 
> * >= 16GB RAM.
> 
> * 2 x USB1/2 (for kbd/mouse), USB-3 for external blu-ray writer.
> 
> * basic bitmap video (VGA/VESA is fine).
> 
> Thanks for any feedback you can give!
> 
> --lyndon

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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-26 21:16 ` hiro
@ 2021-04-26 21:20   ` hiro
  2021-04-26 21:40   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-04-26 21:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

btw, here are the exact models we tested:

http://fqa.9front.org/fqa3.html#3.2
at subheader 3.2.6.4.1 - ThinkCentre

On 4/26/21, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> sure you want just one sata disk for a fileserver? or is the worm all on
> bluray?
>
> the thinkcentre on my desk here has exactly one nvme and one 2,5" slot
> for sata inside.
> i'm not sure it has usb2, but we have xhci support in 9front anyway so
> that should cover it...
> i think you can chose between some used intel (very cheap) and now
> also newer ryzen...
>
> it might be that you'll have to copy some patches into 9legacy first,
> there were too many (esp. about xhci) to keep track for me.
>
> On 4/26/21, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) <lyndon@orthanc.ca> wrote:
>> Time to build out some proper infrastructure at home, and the
>> first order of business is the file+auth server.  I don't need
>> screaming fast performance, just something basic, and I have been
>> looking at some of the current crop of small form factor desktops,
>> along the lines of the Intel NUC.  (But I'm in no way married
>> to Intel.)
>> 
>> I'm curious in hearing from anybody ACTUALLY RUNNING on that sort
>> of machine.  The spec's I'm looking for are pretty minimal:
>> 
>> * amd64 arch.
>> 
>> * a gig-E port I can saturate.
>> 
>> * SATA-II SSD disk (2.5 inch is fine), preferably that will
>>   max out the SATA interface. PCIe/m.2/whatever is okay, as
>>   long as it works with the 9legacy kernel, but remember this
>>   is a file server, so I want to be able to pack a fair number
>>   of bytes into it, making $$$ an issue for non-SATA storage.
>> 
>> * >= 16GB RAM.
>> 
>> * 2 x USB1/2 (for kbd/mouse), USB-3 for external blu-ray writer.
>> 
>> * basic bitmap video (VGA/VESA is fine).
>> 
>> Thanks for any feedback you can give!
>> 
>> --lyndon

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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-26 21:16 ` hiro
  2021-04-26 21:20   ` hiro
@ 2021-04-26 21:40   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) @ 2021-04-26 21:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, hiro

hiro writes:
> sure you want just one sata disk for a fileserver? or is the worm all on bl=
> uray?

One disk is fine for now.  The blu-ray is for backing up the arenas,
and yes, I'll deal with the xhci driver issues myself. (I can use
slower USB ports until I get that part running.)

--lyndon

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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-26 20:27 [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-04-26 21:16 ` hiro
@ 2021-04-26 23:32 ` kokamoto
  2021-04-26 23:36   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-04-27  5:02 ` ori
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2021-04-26 23:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


I'm using 9legacy file/auth/cpu server of 3rd ed. core-i5-3470S (2.9GHz)
 machine with two 2.5 inch disks, one for fossil, another for venti.

> * amd64 arch.
I wonder amd64 architecture on 9legacy is sufficient to full use...
If you use 9front, amd64 is much better than 386, I think.

> * >= 16GB RAM.
 Then, it is unneccessary.☺

> * 2 x USB1/2 (for kbd/mouse), USB-3 for external blu-ray writer.

usb-3 is not supported on 9legacy.
It works only on 9front.

For the usb issue, amd64(9legacy) does not support usb mouse/keyboard,
only ps2 keyboard/mouse.   Is there any such machine having PS/2
interface around?

> * basic bitmap video (VGA/VESA is fine).

vesa is now working very fine for me up to 1920x1080x32 (just for me now).

I'm now working for 9legacy, because it uses fossil+venti, which is
technically newer than cwfs(9front), and then fancier for me.

Kenji


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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-26 23:32 ` kokamoto
@ 2021-04-26 23:36   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-04-26 23:41     ` kokamoto
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) @ 2021-04-26 23:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, kokamoto

kokamoto@hera.eonet.ne.jp writes:

> For the usb issue, amd64(9legacy) does not support usb mouse/keyboard,
> only ps2 keyboard/mouse.   Is there any such machine having PS/2
> interface around?

Pretty much everything supports BIOS mapping from USB->PS/2.  This is
one of the many reasons I was asking for reports only from people who
are ACTUALLY RUNNING THE CONFIGURATION THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

--lyndon

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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-26 23:36   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
@ 2021-04-26 23:41     ` kokamoto
  2021-04-28  1:31       ` kokamoto
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2021-04-26 23:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Pretty much everything supports BIOS mapping from USB->PS/2.  

On my machine, only keyboard can use.

Kenji


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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-26 20:27 [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-04-26 21:16 ` hiro
  2021-04-26 23:32 ` kokamoto
@ 2021-04-27  5:02 ` ori
  2021-04-27  9:28 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-04-28  9:40 ` Steve Simon
  4 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2021-04-27  5:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Quoth Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) <lyndon@orthanc.ca>:
> Time to build out some proper infrastructure at home, and the
> first order of business is the file+auth server.  I don't need
> screaming fast performance, just something basic, and I have been
> looking at some of the current crop of small form factor desktops,
> along the lines of the Intel NUC.  (But I'm in no way married
> to Intel.)
> 
> I'm curious in hearing from anybody ACTUALLY RUNNING on that sort
> of machine.  The spec's I'm looking for are pretty minimal:

I run 9front, so not quite what you asked for, but
drivers that exist in one flavor of plan9 are easier
to port than drivers that don't exist.

My CPU server is a Zotac mi533, with 16g of ram and
a Samsung 970 EVO drive.

I've also got a NUC DCCP847DYE and BOXNUC7I5BNK,
which were apparently named by a cat walking on
a keyboard. They are also fully functional running
9front.


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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-26 20:27 [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-04-27  5:02 ` ori
@ 2021-04-27  9:28 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-04-27 10:33   ` kokamoto
  2021-04-28  9:40 ` Steve Simon
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-04-27  9:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

From the information floating around, short summary of my
understanding (hopefully I'm not wrong):

1) 9legacy on amd64 is unable to use more than 4Gb of memory (and
possibly has other issues?)
2) fossil+venti on amd64 seems to be largely untested and bugs are
being discovered and fixed:
https://pixelhero.dev/patches/venti/set.patch
3) some are using fossil+venti extensively on 9front/amd64 with
success, even though fossil was removed from the base system due to
bugs and no one stepping up to fix those

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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-27  9:28 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-04-27 10:33   ` kokamoto
  2021-04-27 10:35     ` kokamoto
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2021-04-27 10:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> 1) 9legacy on amd64 is unable to use more than 4Gb of memory (and
> possibly has other issues?)
True.
for example, Go1.16.3 and cmd/ga by /amd64/bin/6l.
Somewhat strange/different vihaviour from 386' kernel for example vesa☺

> 2) fossil+venti on amd64 seems to be largely untested and bugs are
> being discovered and fixed:
I have no problem to use fossil+venti other than it somewhat slower than cwfs.

> 3) some are using fossil+venti extensively on 9front/amd64 with
> success, even though fossil was removed from the base system due to
> bugs and no one stepping up to fix those
If we can use fossil+venti + 9front, it may be the best one, I feel.

Kenji


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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-27 10:33   ` kokamoto
@ 2021-04-27 10:35     ` kokamoto
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2021-04-27 10:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> for example, Go1.16.3 and cmd/ga by /amd64/bin/6l.

cmd/gs by /amd64/bin/6l

Sorry

Kenji


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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-26 23:41     ` kokamoto
@ 2021-04-28  1:31       ` kokamoto
  2021-04-28  2:33         ` kokamoto
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2021-04-28  1:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>> Pretty much everything supports BIOS mapping from USB->PS/2.  
> 
> On my machine, only keyboard can use.

Correction.
I put devkbin.c from 386 kernel to /sys/src/9k/k10 with minor
change, and compiled 9k10f again.

Yes, USB mouse/keybord works for amd64 kernel now.

Kenji


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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-28  1:31       ` kokamoto
@ 2021-04-28  2:33         ` kokamoto
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: kokamoto @ 2021-04-28  2:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>>> Pretty much everything supports BIOS mapping from USB->PS/2.  
>> 
>> On my machine, only keyboard can use.
> 
> Correction.
> I put devkbin.c from 386 kernel to /sys/src/9k/k10 with minor
> change, and compiled 9k10f again.
> 
> Yes, USB mouse/keybord works for amd64 kernel now.

And now, I can input 日本語 on 9legacy usb keyboard/mouse.

Kenji


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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-26 20:27 [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
                   ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-04-27  9:28 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-04-28  9:40 ` Steve Simon
  2021-04-28 18:21   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Steve Simon @ 2021-04-28  9:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

I am running a PI4 as my file/auth/cpu server.

I planned to use an external ssd on a usb3 but this has stalled
as I cannot get the 9front xhci driver to work in richard's kernel.
It is probably not a big issue, and works fine (abet slowly) over USB2.

until last year I still had a dual Atom machine which worked nicely but
is a propper desktop machine even though its a mini ITX.

-Steve

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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-28  9:40 ` Steve Simon
@ 2021-04-28 18:21   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-04-28 18:41     ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) @ 2021-04-28 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Steve Simon writes:

> until last year I still had a dual Atom machine which worked nicely but
> is a propper desktop machine even though its a mini ITX.

I have at least a half dozen mini-ITX boards lying around that I
can fall back on.  The problem is I seem to have lost most of the
cases and/or power supplies for them.  Push comes to shove though
and I will use one of them if I have to.  There's quite a mix ranging
from old i386s to a fairly recent and kick-ass 64 bit board that
would make a very nice CPU server.

Maybe I should just go on a hunt for replacement cases.  The problem
last time around was that mini-ITX cases were no longer very "mini" ...

--lyndon

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* Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware
  2021-04-28 18:21   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
@ 2021-04-28 18:41     ` hiro
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-04-28 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

there are some cases on ebay where the front fell off, they are
extremely compatible, just like all power supplies, 9front has very
decent low-to-medium quality software-side support for all power
supplies.

On 4/28/21, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) <lyndon@orthanc.ca> wrote:
> Steve Simon writes:
>
>> until last year I still had a dual Atom machine which worked nicely but
>> is a propper desktop machine even though its a mini ITX.
> 
> I have at least a half dozen mini-ITX boards lying around that I
> can fall back on.  The problem is I seem to have lost most of the
> cases and/or power supplies for them.  Push comes to shove though
> and I will use one of them if I have to.  There's quite a mix ranging
> from old i386s to a fairly recent and kick-ass 64 bit board that
> would make a very nice CPU server.
> 
> Maybe I should just go on a hunt for replacement cases.  The problem
> last time around was that mini-ITX cases were no longer very "mini" ...
> 
> --lyndon

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end of thread, other threads:[~2021-04-28 18:41 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-04-26 20:27 [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2021-04-26 21:16 ` hiro
2021-04-26 21:20   ` hiro
2021-04-26 21:40   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2021-04-26 23:32 ` kokamoto
2021-04-26 23:36   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2021-04-26 23:41     ` kokamoto
2021-04-28  1:31       ` kokamoto
2021-04-28  2:33         ` kokamoto
2021-04-27  5:02 ` ori
2021-04-27  9:28 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-04-27 10:33   ` kokamoto
2021-04-27 10:35     ` kokamoto
2021-04-28  9:40 ` Steve Simon
2021-04-28 18:21   ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2021-04-28 18:41     ` hiro

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