From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9A3455DB-8B65-46B3-9F57-6E98639392CB@me.com> References: <9A3455DB-8B65-46B3-9F57-6E98639392CB@me.com> From: Winston Kodogo Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 10:56:29 +1200 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c08f13ee27374053b7a1ff6 Subject: Re: [9fans] Musings on Interfaces Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9b388d9e-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --94eb2c08f13ee27374053b7a1ff6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to Brantley for his thoughtful musings. Me, I love many things about Sam, but I just can't use it as my everyday editor. The structural regular expression stuff is a work of genius, but I still find, such are my limitations, that the user interface is just too clunky and retro. On 2 September 2016 at 02:42, Brantley Coile wrote: > I think I=E2=80=99ve been a member of 9fans for its entire history. The e= arliest > saved 9fans email in my /mail/box/bwc is dated 2001. But most of the time= I > have not said much. Given that the list isn=E2=80=99t very busy these day= s, and > that I=E2=80=99m doing a lot of thinking about Plan 9, I thought I would = post some > of my seemingly random musings. > > Today I=E2=80=99m thinking about Plan 9=E2=80=99s interfaces. > > The reason for thinking about those is that I=E2=80=99ve just switch back= to > sam(1) from acme(1). No real reason, except for the old adage, a change i= s > as good as a rest. I=E2=80=99ve been working 10 to 12 hour days, six days= a week > lately. I just wanted to change things a bit. Nothing against acme. I=E2= =80=99ve > been using it for many years and it is a great tool. > > The one time that Ken Thompson visited my office, when I had an office in > Redwood City, he noticed that I was using acme and made a comment to the > effect that =E2=80=9Cyou are one of those.=E2=80=9D He uses sam as do man= y of the folks who > created Plan 9. Many of the original folks also use acme. I had did a pol= l > years ago but can=E2=80=99t seem to find the results. As did I for many y= ears, even > after acme make its appearance. I had gotten a version of it working on m= y > Unix using an Teletype 630 terminal, downloading the samterm and all. It > was the main Plan 9 editor during my very brief tenure at Bell Labs in > 1990. Acme came after I left with the arrival of Phil Winterbottom and hi= s > Alef language. The window manager was 8 1/2, which is like rio(1) without > the bumpers one can use to move and resize the window. > > I must say that it is refreshing to be back with the older editor. I did > have modify rio to look for an environmental variable that tells it not t= o > do acme chording. I kept trying to use chording in sam and realized that > part of the problem was that I could still use it in rio. So, I added a > shell variable that turned that feature of rio off. After that subconscio= us > chording stopped. > > I don=E2=80=99t think that sam is better than acme, or even the other way= around. > Both do a good job of getting the job done. They are different. And that > difference has an affect on the way one used the system. When I use acme,= I > mostly stay in acme, using the win program for my shell access. It become= s > a kind of integrated environment. With sam, I seem to use tools like sed > and awk in the rio windows, like sed and awk more than when I was using > acme. I had a similar thing happen when in the 1980=E2=80=99s I dropped v= i for ed. > I used ed until the 1990=E2=80=99s when I was able to switch to sam full = time. > > But my use of edit commands in sam is the biggest difference between it > and acme. > > In sam, I think more about how to modify things using the command window > rather than moving the mouse around and clicking on things. The command > language in acme using the Edit command is the same, but somehow it feels > different. There is something to be said for the convenience of the comma= nd > windows in sam. > > If I thought of the change as an experiment, one result would be the time > it took me to not have to think about which editor I was using while > working. Our tools should be, for the most part, transparent. It took abo= ut > a week to switch back to sam from acme. That time is certainly a function > of how much I used sam in the past. > > I=E2=80=99m very grateful to still be using these tools. It=E2=80=99s a v= ery personal > thing but for someone who first used 6th Edition Unix, ed and the old > shell, and used all the versions of Unix that followed, these tools, both > acme and sam, rio and 8 1/2, are an improvement to all that proceeded the= m > and followed them. > > Brantley Coile > > > --94eb2c08f13ee27374053b7a1ff6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks to Brantley for his thoughtful musings. Me, I love = many things about Sam, but I just can't use it as my everyday editor. T= he structural regular expression stuff is a work of genius, but I still fin= d, such are my limitations, that the user interface is just too clunky and = retro.

O= n 2 September 2016 at 02:42, Brantley Coile <brantleycoile@me.com= > wrote:
I think I=E2=80=99ve b= een a member of 9fans for its entire history. The earliest saved 9fans emai= l in my /mail/box/bwc is dated 2001. But most of the time I have not said m= uch. Given that the list isn=E2=80=99t very busy these days, and that I=E2= =80=99m doing a lot of thinking about Plan 9, I thought I would post some o= f my seemingly random musings.

Today I=E2=80=99m thinking about Plan 9=E2=80=99s interfaces.

The reason for thinking about those is that I=E2=80=99ve just switch back t= o sam(1) from acme(1). No real reason, except for the old adage, a change i= s as good as a rest. I=E2=80=99ve been working 10 to 12 hour days, six days= a week lately. I just wanted to change things a bit. Nothing against acme.= I=E2=80=99ve been using it for many years and it is a great tool.

The one time that Ken Thompson visited my office, when I had an office in R= edwood City, he noticed that I was using acme and made a comment to the eff= ect that =E2=80=9Cyou are one of those.=E2=80=9D He uses sam as do many of = the folks who created Plan 9. Many of the original folks also use acme. I h= ad did a poll years ago but can=E2=80=99t seem to find the results. As did = I for many years, even after acme make its appearance. I had gotten a versi= on of it working on my Unix using an Teletype 630 terminal, downloading the= samterm and all. It was the main Plan 9 editor during my very brief tenure= at Bell Labs in 1990. Acme came after I left with the arrival of Phil Wint= erbottom and his Alef language. The window manager was 8 1/2, which is like= rio(1) without the bumpers one can use to move and resize the window.

I must say that it is refreshing to be back with the older editor. I did ha= ve modify rio to look for an environmental variable that tells it not to do= acme chording. I kept trying to use chording in sam and realized that part= of the problem was that I could still use it in rio. So, I added a shell v= ariable that turned that feature of rio off. After that subconscious chordi= ng stopped.

I don=E2=80=99t think that sam is better than acme, or even the other way a= round. Both do a good job of getting the job done. They are different. And = that difference has an affect on the way one used the system. When I use ac= me, I mostly stay in acme, using the win program for my shell access. It be= comes a kind of integrated environment. With sam, I seem to use tools like = sed and awk in the rio windows, like sed and awk more than when I was using= acme. I had a similar thing happen when in the 1980=E2=80=99s I dropped vi= for ed. I used ed until the 1990=E2=80=99s when I was able to switch to sa= m full time.

But my use of edit commands in sam is the biggest difference between it and= acme.

In sam, I think more about how to modify things using the command window ra= ther than moving the mouse around and clicking on things. The command langu= age in acme using the Edit command is the same, but somehow it feels differ= ent. There is something to be said for the convenience of the command windo= ws in sam.

If I thought of the change as an experiment, one result would be the time i= t took me to not have to think about which editor I was using while working= . Our tools should be, for the most part, transparent. It took about a week= to switch back to sam from acme. That time is certainly a function of how = much I used sam in the past.

I=E2=80=99m very grateful to still be using these tools. It=E2=80=99s a ver= y personal thing but for someone who first used 6th Edition Unix, ed and th= e old shell, and used all the versions of Unix that followed, these tools, = both acme and sam, rio and 8 1/2, are an improvement to all that proceeded = them and followed them.

=C2=A0 Brantley Coile



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