From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <72f15b81-8550-44f7-9823-87100bd68978@email.android.com> References: <20160831034806.GB19159@wopr> <957d9161a8fd44eb4411d5bf173ae80b@9netics.com> <20160831064010.GE19159@wopr> <97b4156d-9350-42c2-a573-3a6fe0ea80e9@email.android.com> <72f15b81-8550-44f7-9823-87100bd68978@email.android.com> From: Winston Kodogo Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:53:45 +1200 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114416ce8f2cac053b69523d Subject: Re: [9fans] Is 9Fans dead or alive Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9ae8499c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --001a114416ce8f2cac053b69523d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Well, the meaning of the word "ilk" has always puzzled me. As in "Sir Robert Pike of that Ilk". But then I'm not Scottish. Or Scotch, whichever is correct. Me, I still lend a fraction of an ear to this group in the increasingly vain hope of learning something. Personally, I don't use Plan9, or even p9p, to get stuff done. I just like to look at the code from time to time. I'm with Carmack on Plan9 circa 1997: " It has an achingly elegant internal structure, but a user interface that has been asleep for the past decade." Add a couple of decades to that. Also, don't be mean to Skip! On 1 September 2016 at 09:36, stanley lieber wrote: > Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > > >On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:43 AM stanley lieber wrote: > > > >> Steven Stallion wrote: > >> > >> >On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Kurt H Maier > >wrote: > >> >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 10:52:31PM -0700, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > >> >>> > plan 9 as more than a masturbatory aid. > >> >>> > >> >>> put up or shut up: > >> >> ... > >> >> Congratulations on your accomplishments! > >> > > >> >% fn ck { grep $* /n/sources/patch/*/email > >/n/sources/patch/^(applied > >> >maybe saved sorry)^/*/email >[2]/dev/null |wc -l} > >> >% ck sstallion@gmail.com > >> > 28 > >> >% ck khm@sciops.net > >> > 0 > >> > > >> >Perhaps it's better to be known for the occasional masturbatory > >> >session than for being an incorrigible troll. > >> > > >> >Steve > >> > >> What's incorrigible is the way you people consistently reply to > >questions > >> from newbs with claims that it is trivial to do various tasks on Plan > >9 > >> without ever quite revealing that 1.) it isn't, and 2.) you aren't > >really > >> referring to the task they suggested, anyway. Skip does this, Every. > >> Single. Time. What is the point? > >> > > > >you're assuming a person who is new to Plan 9, is new to computing, > >system > >admin or programming. > > > >easy means: "no different than setting up a cpu once you've configured > >your > >fs and auth". adding entries for 8 rpi's in /lib/ndb/local and > >/cfg/pxe is > >as easy as cutting and pasting after the first one. they all run the > >same > >kernel. > > > >please take the hyperbole down a bit or provide instances for what you > >claim i did. the internet has a long memory; http links would be > >sufficient. > > > >regarding pi cluster, it was related to a work-in-progress i talked > >about > >at IWP9 2010. i've shared as much detail as i could. > > > > > >> What do you use that rpi "cluster" for, Skip? Do you mean to imply > >some > >> the availability of some facility for process migration? You know > >none > >> exists. > >> > >> The latest amusing evolution is a parade of replies from the usual > >> suspects where it's never quite clear which of them are promoting or > >> denigrating the degraded web-centric nature of modern computing. > >First > >> various ribbons and medals associated with historic Plan 9 campaigns > >are > >> displayed and then the same noble campaigners suggest that Plan 9 > >users are > >> cave men clinging to stone tools. I think the quips are so clever > >precisely > >> because their target is indeterminate. Great, you're funny, but > >again, what > >> is the point? > >> > >> How does any of this clarify matters for interested newbs? > >> > >> My personal favorite aspect of this tiresome dance is the eventual > >> denunciation of trolls. Here, in the spiritual home of Mark V Shaney! > >> > >> The problem is not trolling. The problem is low to medium quality > >> trolling, performed by armchair quarterbacks who want credit for > >being Plan > >> 9 Gandalfs but who are unwilling to provide the simple service of > >speaking > >> in words that make sense. Mothra forbid any should cast aspersions > >upon the > >> sacred world wide web, > >> bringer of the paycheck and dresser of the tongue. > >> > > > >and yet, it is you and your ilk who claim the mantle of the true > >keepers of > >the faith, beating back the evildoers. > > > > > >> > >> Kurt provides free hosting for the 9front mercurial repository, after > >> Google found better things to do with their time. Thanks, Kurt. > >> > >> sl > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > "your ilk" > > What does that mean, exactly, Skip? > > http://fqa.9front.org > > What I say is that Plan 9 runs on my computer and I use it to do the > things I use computers for. Documentation of the hows and whys can be found > at the URL above. 9fans manage to consistently make fun of this idea while > somehow simultaneously retaining an incredibly easily offended sense of > ownership over anything mentioned on 9fans since 1993. Which is the real > you? And why do quips become verboten only after you've contributed the > quips you wanted to contribute? > > It's not so much keeping the flame as it is simply wanting to run the > software to actually do things, and realizing that waiting for the last > remaining Bell Labs staff working on Plan 9 to jump ship is a poor strategy > for keeping the OS alive. We forked, and the OS lives. > > Oblique references to a talk given six years ago about a project the > details of which you can't reveal publicly is a good example of what I'm > describing in this thread. What does this innuendo illuminate? Who does it > help? Why even mention it when you can't elaborate? And this is what you > dangle just over the heads of newbs? How about providing instead actual > advice on how to get the OS to do something useful? > > The best part about your challenge to produce links is that the 9fans web > archive has been offline for close to a year. People objected when I made > the claim 9fans quit bothering with Plan 9, but the status quo leans > farther and farther away from it with each passing year. Alcatel-Lucent had > to be pestered on Twitter just to get the sources machine back online. > > sl > > > > --001a114416ce8f2cac053b69523d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, the meaning of the word "ilk" has alw= ays puzzled me. As in "Sir Robert Pike of that Ilk". But then I&#= 39;m not Scottish. Or Scotch, whichever is correct. Me, I still lend a frac= tion of an ear to this group in the increasingly vain hope of learning some= thing.

Personally, I don't use Plan9, or even p9p, to= get stuff done. I just like to look at the code from time to time. I'm= with Carmack on Plan9 circa 1997: " It has an achingly elegant internal structure, but a user interface that has been asleep for the past decade." Add a couple of decades to that.=

Also, don't be mean to Skip!

On 1 September 2016 at 09= :36, stanley lieber <sl@9front.org> wrote:
Skip Tavakkolian <= skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:43 AM stanley lieber <sl@9front.org> wrote:
>
>> Steven Stallion <sstalli= on@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>
>wrote:
>> >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 10:52:31PM -0700, Skip Tavakkolia= n wrote:
>> >>> > plan 9 as more than a masturbatory aid.
>> >>>
>> >>> put up or shut up:
>> >> ...
>> >> Congratulations on your accomplishments!
>> >
>> >% fn ck { grep $* /n/sources/patch/*/email
>/n/sources/patch/^(applied
>> >maybe saved sorry)^/*/email >[2]/dev/null |wc -l}
>> >% ck sstallion@gmail.co= m
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A028
>> >% ck khm@sciops.net
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0
>> >
>> >Perhaps it's better to be known for the occasional masturb= atory
>> >session than for being an incorrigible troll.
>> >
>> >Steve
>>
>> What's incorrigible is the way you people consistently reply t= o
>questions
>> from newbs with claims that it is trivial to do various tasks on P= lan
>9
>> without ever quite revealing that 1.) it isn't, and 2.) you ar= en't
>really
>> referring to the task they suggested, anyway. Skip does this, Ever= y.
>> Single. Time. What is the point?
>>
>
>you're assuming a person who is new to Plan 9, is new to computing,=
>system
>admin or programming.
>
>easy means: "no different than setting up a cpu once you've co= nfigured
>your
>fs and auth".=C2=A0 adding entries for 8 rpi's in /lib/ndb/loc= al and
>/cfg/pxe is
>as easy as cutting and pasting after the first one. they all run the >same
>kernel.
>
>please take the hyperbole down a bit or provide instances for what you<= br> >claim i did. the internet has a long memory; http links would be
>sufficient.
>
>regarding pi cluster, it was related to a work-in-progress i talked
>about
>at IWP9 2010.=C2=A0 i've shared as much detail as i could.
>
>
>> What do you use that rpi "cluster" for, Skip? Do you mea= n to imply
>some
>> the availability of some facility for process migration? You know<= br> >none
>> exists.
>>
>> The latest amusing evolution is a parade of replies from the usual=
>> suspects where it's never quite clear which of them are promot= ing or
>> denigrating the degraded web-centric nature of modern computing. >First
>> various ribbons and medals associated with historic Plan 9 campaig= ns
>are
>> displayed and then the same noble campaigners suggest that Plan 9<= br> >users are
>> cave men clinging to stone tools. I think the quips are so clever<= br> >precisely
>> because their target is indeterminate. Great, you're funny, bu= t
>again, what
>> is the point?
>>
>> How does any of this clarify matters for interested newbs?
>>
>> My personal favorite aspect of this tiresome dance is the eventual=
>> denunciation of trolls. Here, in the spiritual home of Mark V Shan= ey!
>>
>> The problem is not trolling. The problem is low to medium quality<= br> >> trolling, performed by armchair quarterbacks who want credit for >being Plan
>> 9 Gandalfs but who are unwilling to provide the simple service of<= br> >speaking
>> in words that make sense. Mothra forbid any should cast aspersions=
>upon the
>> sacred world wide web,
>> bringer of the paycheck and dresser of the tongue.
>>
>
>and yet, it is you and your ilk who claim the mantle of the true
>keepers of
>the faith, beating back the evildoers.
>
>
>>
>> Kurt provides free hosting for the 9front mercurial repository, af= ter
>> Google found better things to do with their time. Thanks, Kurt. >>
>> sl
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

"your ilk"

What does that mean, exactly, Skip?

http= ://fqa.9front.org

What I say is that Plan 9 runs on my computer and I use it to do the things= I use computers for. Documentation of the hows and whys can be found at th= e URL above. 9fans manage to consistently make fun of this idea while someh= ow simultaneously retaining an incredibly easily offended sense of ownershi= p over anything mentioned on 9fans since 1993. Which is the real you? And w= hy do quips become verboten only after you've contributed the quips you= wanted to contribute?

It's not so much keeping the flame as it is simply wanting to run the s= oftware to actually do things, and realizing that waiting for the last rema= ining Bell Labs staff working on Plan 9 to jump ship is a poor strategy for= keeping the OS alive. We forked, and the OS lives.

Oblique references to a talk given six years ago about a project the detail= s of which you can't reveal publicly is a good example of what I'm = describing in this thread. What does this innuendo illuminate? Who does it = help? Why even mention it when you can't elaborate? And this is what yo= u dangle just over the heads of newbs? How about providing instead actual a= dvice on how to get the OS to do something useful?

The best part about your challenge to produce links is that the 9fans web a= rchive has been offline for close to a year. People objected when I made th= e claim 9fans quit bothering with Plan 9, but the status quo leans farther = and farther away from it with each passing year. Alcatel-Lucent had to be p= estered on Twitter just to get the sources machine back online.

sl




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