Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[Prof Brucee <prof.brucee@gmail.com>]

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I've never understood the fascination with gdb. To me it's just turgid.

I like saying "acid has always worked for me" because it's a fun thing to
say but not only is it painlessly useful it is programmable. stk and leak
are pretty neat.

brucee

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:52 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
wrote:

> hmm.  neither db nor acid work for you?  I've found acid to be much easier
> to use than gdb, but on my plan 9 projects a few prints are quicker for me
> than messing with a debugger.
>
> unless harvey has added core dumps to plan 9, then post trap debugging
> would be via broken processes not core dumps.
>
> why are you forced into core dump driven development.  that makes it
> should like the environment isn't an effective on for development.
>
> - erik
>
>
> On Jul 26, 2015 10:54 AM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Who claimed fast compilation was a motive?
> > From what I understand this is all about being able to use gdb for
> debugging.
> >
> > It makes sense to me, but it might still be subjective.
> > If you care I will explain my experience:
> >
> > Some longer time ago I tried gdb for disassembling some secret binary,
> > but quickly gave up cause of the complex interface and reverted to
> > objdump instead. I wasted a lot of time and that made me hate gdb a
> > lot.
> >
> > Now, much later I started using gdb again, cause as long as it has
> > access to the source analyzing coredumps is very easy. It's a better
> > workflow than my printf() debugging, because the Makefiles of the
> > project I'm working on are so complex and broken that everybody avoids
> > compiling (takes too long).
> > I have seen many complaints in Ron's commit logs about makefiles, too.
> > I'm fairly certain that for Harvey and Akaros they're pretty much
> > forced just like me into a coredump-driven development workflow.
> >
> > tldr: gcc is needed so that we can use gdb so that we don't have to
> > compile as often so that we can fix bugs faster.
> >
> > On 7/26/15, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> > > just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self
> contained
> > > thing to be a must have.  i don't consider the gcc toolchain to be a
> > > feature.
> > >
> > > if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some
> > > numbers.
> > >
> > > - erik
> > >
> > > On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante
> > > <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=axel.belinfante@utwente.nl]axel.belinfante@utwente.nl
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I couldn’t resist looking, and found
> > >> in [
> http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.osnews.com%2Fcomments%2F28699&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGHKFWanYoFNYbSy6In7LAXtMi-tg]http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699
> > >>
> > >> "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and
> clang”.
> > >>
> > >> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
> > >>
> > >> More details, including the feature list below, are
> > >> at [
> http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fharvey-os.org&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNErZ4XfGFvsgbhV-uqEiG8K2pSdYQ]http://harvey-os.org
> > >>
> > >> Features
> > >>
> > >> • AMD 64 bit
> > >> • Modern, simplified syscall system
> > >> • GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
> > >> • Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to
> > >> change anything else
> > >> • Fast compilation of the whole system
> > >> • All Plan9 userland apps available
> > >> • Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new
> fileserver,
> > >> native toolchain and more
> > >>
> > >> I’m intrigued by the “compile … using Harvey's headers and libs, no
> need
> > >> to change anything else” —
> > >> I guess that means that it will be easy to “port” stuff to Harvey?
> > >>
> > >> The team list contains names well-known on this list...
> > >>
> > >> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
> > >>
> > >> Axel.
> > >>
> > >>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez
> > >>> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=rymg19@gmail.com]rymg19@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
> > >>
> > >> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT,
> > >> "[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=steve@quintile.net]steve@quintile.net"
> > >> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=steve@quintile.net]steve@quintile.net> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?
> > >>>
> > >>> if so does gcc run under Harvey?
> > >>>
> > >>> does gcc run under plan9 now?
> > >>>
> > >>> Steve
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez
> > >>> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=rymg19@gmail.com]rymg19@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> [
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2Fthis-is-not-a-monad-tutorial%2Fharvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFKZSymwu8nNoZ6I7kp6PyVvp9A1g]https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and
> > >>>> found it interesting.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I found this part particularly neat:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well
> known
> > >>>> > tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have
> in a
> > >>>> > modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would
> be
> > >>>> > very difficult to have.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>

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