From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <1441348.rbkaJH2T22@coil> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:57:43 -0800 Message-ID: From: David Leimbach To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9340683857e8304cf7f7691 Subject: Re: [9fans] C++ Topicbox-Message-UUID: e6748fe4-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --14dae9340683857e8304cf7f7691 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Haskell On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Eugene Gorodinsky wrote: > Yay! A "C++ vs the world" flamewar! Again. > > Let me just point out that writing a game engine consists of a little bit > more than just calls to opengl. Game engine programmers tend to embed > scripting languages in their engines as opposed to writing the engines in > Java, C#, Python or Lua. > > P.S. Coincidentally, here's a link to Carmack's rant about how script > interpreters suck: > http://www.codingthewheel.com/game-dev/john-carmack-script-interpreters-c= onsidered-harmful > P.P.S. idTech4 and above use C++. Carmack probably doesn't write idiomati= c > C anymore, considering his tips on doing functional programming in C++ ( > http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/04/26/functional-programming-in-c/) > > 2012/11/23 dexen deVries > >> On Friday 23 of November 2012 10:47:09 Gorka Guardiola wrote: >> > On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Winston Kodogo >> wrote: >> > > But, let the record show, C++ has been scientifically shown to be an >> > > unbelievably crap and monstrously complex language, even though I ea= rn >> > > my daily bread by using it. I was a contemporary of Dr Stroustrup wh= en >> > > he was spending his time dragging the Cambridge mainframe to its kne= es >> > > using the Simula compiler - the kindest description I ever heard fro= m >> > > friends in the computer lab was "stubborn"- and occasionally, ok >> > > frequently, or indeed always, am tempted to view C++ as his revenge = on >> > > the world for pointing out that he doesn't have a clue how to progra= m >> > > efficiently. >> > >> > Yes, this is why most games, which do not need speed or efficiency at >> all >> > are programmed in C++. (...) >> >> you've just stepped on my pet peeve, apologies in advance for what >> follows. >> >> <<'NITPICK' >> the bulk of in-game graphics processing is done via OpenGL calls/DirectX >> calls/whatever goes on the PS3' Cell CPU. the C++ parts could be replace= d >> with >> Python and noone would be any the wiser. >> >> similarily, Youtube flash player does not decode nor scale video in Flas= h' >> Actionscript; the GPU does it. unless you have broken drivers like i had >> once, >> in which case it is /slow/. >> >> C++ for the assembly-line-style game development [1] is choosen as PHB's >> safe >> bet -- a.k.a. ``industry's stadard practice'' -- and not on technical >> merits. >> cue picture of Scott Adams (of Dilbert fame). >> >> if you really must, John Carmak writes idomatic C, not C++. >> NITPICK; >> >> >> [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D4821152 and countless other >> stories. >> >> -- >> dexen deVries >> >> [[[=E2=86=93][=E2=86=92]]] >> >> >> Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity. >> -- Alvy Ray Smith >> >> > --14dae9340683857e8304cf7f7691 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Haskell


On Tue= , Nov 27, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Eugene Gorodinsky <e.gorodinsky@gmail.com= > wrote:
Yay! A "C++ vs the world" flamewar= ! Again.

Let me just point out that writing a game engin= e consists of a little bit more than just calls to opengl. Game engine prog= rammers tend to embed scripting languages in their engines as opposed to wr= iting the engines in Java, C#, Python or Lua.=C2=A0

P.S. Coincidentally, here's a link to Carmack's= rant about how script interpreters suck:=C2=A0http://www.codingthewheel.com/game-dev/john-carmack-scrip= t-interpreters-considered-harmful
P.P.S. idTech4 and above use C++. Carmack probably doesn't write i= diomatic C anymore, considering his tips on doing functional programming in= C++ (http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/04/26/fun= ctional-programming-in-c/)

2012/11/23 dexen deVries <dexen.= devries@gmail.com>
On Friday 23 of November 2012 10:47:09 Gorka Guardiola wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:
> > But, let the record show, C++ has been scientifically shown to be= an
> > unbelievably crap and monstrously complex language, even though I= earn
> > my daily bread by using it. I was a contemporary of Dr Stroustrup= when
> > he was spending his time dragging the Cambridge mainframe to its = knees
> > using the Simula compiler - the kindest description I ever heard = from
> > friends in the computer lab was "stubborn"- =C2=A0and o= ccasionally, ok
> > frequently, or indeed always, am tempted to view C++ as his reven= ge on
> > the world for pointing out that he doesn't have a clue how to= program
> > efficiently.
>
> Yes, this is why most games, which do not need speed or efficiency at = all
> are programmed in C++. (...)

you've just stepped on my pet peeve, apologies in advance for what foll= ows.

<<'NITPICK'
the bulk of in-game graphics processing is done via OpenGL calls/DirectX calls/whatever goes on the PS3' Cell CPU. the C++ parts could be replac= ed with
Python and noone would be any the wiser.

similarily, Youtube flash player does not decode nor scale video in Flash&#= 39;
Actionscript; the GPU does it. unless you have broken drivers like i had on= ce,
in which case it is /slow/.

C++ for the assembly-line-style game development [1] is choosen as PHB'= s safe
bet =C2=A0-- a.k.a. ``industry's stadard practice'' -- and not = on technical merits.
cue picture of Scott Adams (of Dilbert fame).

if you really must, John Carmak writes idomatic C, not C++.
NITPICK;


[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D4821152 and countless other = stories.

--
dexen deVries

[[[=E2=86=93][=E2=86=92]]]


Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -- Alvy Ray Smith


--14dae9340683857e8304cf7f7691--