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* [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
@ 2021-03-25  9:53 saif.resun
  2021-03-25 20:14 ` Richard Miller
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: saif.resun @ 2021-03-25  9:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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hello there!


I downloaded the USB Disk image from there https://9p.io/plan9/download/usbdisk.bz2 and burned it with Rufus. When I booted using the USB it showed this:

MBR...PBS2...
Plan 9 from Bell Labspcirouting : ignoring south bridge PCT.0.31.0 8086/8C5C
bios (USB) loader
cpu0 :  3191MHz GenuineIntel P6(cpuid : Ax0x306C3 DX 0xBFEBFBFF)
ELCR : CCC8
into bios in real mode...and back
bios0: drive 0x80 :  7,851,736,06A bytes, 512-byte sectors


and then nothing is working.

What can I do now.
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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-25  9:53 [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image saif.resun
@ 2021-03-25 20:14 ` Richard Miller
  2021-03-25 20:30   ` saif.resun
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2021-03-25 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I downloaded the USB Disk image from there https://9p.io/plan9/download/usbdisk.bz2

I think that's not an installer image.  It's a self-contained Plan 9 system
(CPU kernel and fossil filesystem) which you can run from a USB flash drive
without having to "install" anything ...  provided, that is, you have
compatible hardware.  What are you trying to boot it on?


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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-25 20:14 ` Richard Miller
@ 2021-03-25 20:30   ` saif.resun
  2021-03-25 20:40     ` Richard Miller
  2021-03-25 20:51     ` saif.resun
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: saif.resun @ 2021-03-25 20:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 442 bytes --]

I want to install Plan9. Can you please tell me the right way to do that. I also downloaded the CD Image but Rufus were unable to burn it. Then I burned it with another CD burner but it didn't boot Plan9 installer.
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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-25 20:30   ` saif.resun
@ 2021-03-25 20:40     ` Richard Miller
  2021-03-25 20:51     ` saif.resun
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2021-03-25 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I want to install Plan9. Can you please tell me the right way to do that.

The traditional way is from the CD image.  If you expand plan9.iso.bz2
with the bunzip2 utility to produce plan9.iso, and make a CD of that
expanded image, you should have a bootable installer.


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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-25 20:30   ` saif.resun
  2021-03-25 20:40     ` Richard Miller
@ 2021-03-25 20:51     ` saif.resun
  2021-03-25 20:56       ` Richard Miller
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: saif.resun @ 2021-03-25 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 252 bytes --]

don't I need to burn it?
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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-25 20:51     ` saif.resun
@ 2021-03-25 20:56       ` Richard Miller
  2021-03-26  5:46         ` saif.resun
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2021-03-25 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> don't I need to burn it?

You need a CD with exactly the contents of plan9.iso beginning at sector zero.
How you make that depends on what operating system you're using. (I only know
how to do it on Plan 9, which won't help you much.)


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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-25 20:56       ` Richard Miller
@ 2021-03-26  5:46         ` saif.resun
  2021-03-26  6:53           ` Alexander Kapshuk
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: saif.resun @ 2021-03-26  5:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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I'm a Windows 10 user. I'm facing huge trouble to burn it. Can you please do this for me:

 * download the CD Image from here: https://9p.io/plan9/download/plan9.iso.bz2
 * extract it and then burn it on a USB using your plan9 system.
 * then copy everything  from the USB in a folder then compress the folder in a format you prefer
 * then upload it on GDrive or somewhere I can download it from.

Would you please do that for me?
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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26  5:46         ` saif.resun
@ 2021-03-26  6:53           ` Alexander Kapshuk
  2021-03-26  7:35             ` Lucio De Re
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Alexander Kapshuk @ 2021-03-26  6:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Have you tried downloading the archive that contains the CD iso image,
https://9p.io/plan9/download/plan9.iso.bz2, and burning that onto a CD
or USB drive?
If your hardware is supported,
https://9p.io/wiki/plan9/Supported_PC_hardware/index.html, you would
be able to boot the system off the CD/USB drive.
Alternatively, you could use the iso image to set up a Plan 9 system
in a virtual environment as described here,
https://9p.io/wiki/plan9/virtual_machines/index.html.


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 7:47 AM <saif.resun@outlook.com> wrote:
>
> I'm a Windows 10 user. I'm facing huge trouble to burn it. Can you please do this for me:
>
> download the CD Image from here: https://9p.io/plan9/download/plan9.iso.bz2
> extract it and then burn it on a USB using your plan9 system.
> then copy everything  from the USB in a folder then compress the folder in a format you prefer
> then upload it on GDrive or somewhere I can download it from.
>
>
> Would you please do that for me?
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26  6:53           ` Alexander Kapshuk
@ 2021-03-26  7:35             ` Lucio De Re
  2021-03-26  7:53               ` saif.resun
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Lucio De Re @ 2021-03-26  7:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

The trouble here isn't so much Windows as failure to realise that a
compressed image isn't what one needs to write to the CD. I don't know
what tools are available on Windows to uncompress .bz2 files. Once
that hurdle is overcome, I have little doubt that wrting to CD (or to
a USB drive) will be straightforward even for a Windows user.

Lucio.

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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26  7:35             ` Lucio De Re
@ 2021-03-26  7:53               ` saif.resun
  2021-03-26  8:34                 ` Skip Tavakkolian
                                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: saif.resun @ 2021-03-26  7:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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I've uncompressed .bz2 but the problem is burning the .ISO file. And I also have some problem. I don't use any GNU or Linux related stuffs. Most of the ISO burner are from GUN. I used the one that comes with Windows and also tried Rufus(though I don't like GNU related stuffs) but failed. However with which program do you burn a .iso on plan9? and Is that program Cross-platform?
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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26  7:53               ` saif.resun
@ 2021-03-26  8:34                 ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2021-03-26  8:36                   ` saif.resun
  2021-03-26 10:03                 ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-03-26 11:01                 ` Lucio De Re
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2021-03-26  8:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

I've not tried this, but I think an easier way to play with Plan 9 on
Windows 10 might be to use Hyper-V and have the VM boot up from
plan9.iso file.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 12:54 AM <saif.resun@outlook.com> wrote:
>
> I've uncompressed .bz2 but the problem is burning the .ISO file. And I also have some problem. I don't use any GNU or Linux related stuffs. Most of the ISO burner are from GUN. I used the one that comes with Windows and also tried Rufus(though I don't like GNU related stuffs) but failed. However with which program do you burn a .iso on plan9? and Is that program Cross-platform?
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26  8:34                 ` Skip Tavakkolian
@ 2021-03-26  8:36                   ` saif.resun
  2021-03-26  9:39                     ` saif.resun
                                       ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: saif.resun @ 2021-03-26  8:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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I want it as a dual booted os on my system
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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26  8:36                   ` saif.resun
@ 2021-03-26  9:39                     ` saif.resun
  2021-03-26 10:03                     ` Richard Miller
  2021-03-26 13:20                     ` Wes Kussmaul
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: saif.resun @ 2021-03-26  9:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 328 bytes --]

however is there any way to burn an iso file  in Inferno operating system?
I've a working Inferno.
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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26  7:53               ` saif.resun
  2021-03-26  8:34                 ` Skip Tavakkolian
@ 2021-03-26 10:03                 ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-03-26 11:01                 ` Lucio De Re
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-03-26 10:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021, at 7:53 AM, saif.resun@outlook.com <mailto:saif.resun%40outlook.com> wrote:
> I've uncompressed .bz2 but the problem is burning the .ISO file.

Following my guess at what's wrong:
You need to burn it as an image not a file. I think the default for most burners is to make a filesystem on the CD & put foo.iso into that filesystem as a file. How to do it will vary, but I'm pretty sure all burning software will have the option. If you've done it right, when you open the disk in Windows it should look have the same folders and files as the iso image. You'll see folders named 386 mips [other CPU names] mnt n bin dev sys lib adm cfg ...

Alternative #1:
If you can give a virtual machine access to a hard disk, you can use the virtual machine to install. You'd have to be careful not to harm Windows, but you would anyway. But if the iso won't boot when burned properly, I guess the installed system won't boot either.

Alternative #2:
Install 9front instead. Their iso image is USB-bootable. (You'll need to write the image to the raw device; not sure what tool but I think they document some.) It's almost the same as Plan 9, having some different fixes, some different drivers, and some other minor tweaks. (There's some work going on to share the changes as patches.) The biggest difference is 9front's website and documentation have... uh... a distinct flavour. ;) http://9front.org/

Huh.. 9front describe an alternative USB install process you might want to try if you can't get the others working. It's point 2 here:
http://fqa.9front.org/fqa4.html#4.2.2
For Plan 9, replace 9boot with 9load. You'll need to type the image name during boot as something like `sdC0!dos!9front.iso`. The letter C may be different. However, I'm not sure 9load has the necessary USB drivers. If it calls the BIOS, you'll be fine if your BIOS supports the right emulation; many do. (As a sort-of example: I have one laptop which emulates a USB floppy drive as a real floppy drive. It's great for old OSs which use the BIOS, but not so much for OSs which access the hardware directly.)

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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26  8:36                   ` saif.resun
  2021-03-26  9:39                     ` saif.resun
@ 2021-03-26 10:03                     ` Richard Miller
  2021-03-26 13:20                     ` Wes Kussmaul
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2021-03-26 10:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I want it as a dual booted os on my system

The standard CD works best to install Plan 9 as the first or only
operating system on a machine. Do you have an empty hard disk? Or
an empty primary partition? If installing on a partition of a shared
disk, it's safest to use your existing operating system to change
the partition type to "Plan 9" (0x39) before installing. Otherwise,
if the disk has partitions which are not aligned to cylinder boundaries,
the Plan 9 partition editor may damage them.

In any case, you will of course need to make a complete backup of
anything valuable and be sure you can restore it again, before starting
to install any extra dual boot OS.

I have an experimental Plan 9 installer which runs directly from a
USB flash drive, for use with machines without an optical drive.
So far it has only been tried on thinkpads, so I can't guarantee it
will work on your machine. You can fetch it from 
   http://www.hamnavoe.com/plan9install.usb.img.bz2
Expand the bz2, and copy the result as a binary image to an empty
usb stick starting at sector zero. You should end up with the usb
stick reformatted as a single 1GB FAT partition, containing an install
kernel 9pcflop and a terminal kernel 9pcf.

Mount this and copy the expanded CD image onto the FAT partition
as plan9.iso - this should give you a bootable installer. Follow
the installation instructions on 9p.io, with these choices in
particular:
   Distribution disk [no default]: /dev/sdXX/dos
   Location of archives [browse]: /

To boot the installed system, you can use the installer usb stick to boot
the terminal kernel.  You can either interrupt the boot sequence by hitting
a key as soon as you see the list of config assignments on the screen, and
type new configs before entering "boot" to continue booting; or you can edit
plan9.ini on another system to make the new boot configs permanent.  Adding
"wait" at the end of the plan9.ini will cause it to pause so you don't have
to be quick hitting a key.

Boot config assignemts to run the installed system instead of the installer:
  bootfile=sdB0!/9pcf
  bootargs=local!/dev/sdE0/fossil

Use "glenda" as the username until you've set up your own account.


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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26  7:53               ` saif.resun
  2021-03-26  8:34                 ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2021-03-26 10:03                 ` Ethan Gardener
@ 2021-03-26 11:01                 ` Lucio De Re
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Lucio De Re @ 2021-03-26 11:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On 3/26/21, saif.resun@outlook.com <saif.resun@outlook.com> wrote:
> I've uncompressed .bz2 but the problem is burning the .ISO file. And I also
> have some problem. I don't use any GNU or Linux related stuffs. Most of the
> ISO burner are from GUN. I used the one that comes with Windows and also
> tried Rufus(though I don't like GNU related stuffs) but failed. However with
> which program do you burn a .iso on plan9? and Is that program
> Cross-platform?

No, it is not cross-platform; little in Plan 9 is. I may as well warn
you now that Plan 9 is very much minimalistics and does not come with
an archive of tens of thousands of utilities to duplicate tasks that
one can perform with a little learning using much simpler command line
tools. And that is just a small aspect that may well surprise you.

Go has created a new paradigm (not to everybody's liking,
understandably) by enforcing portability, but like Plan 9, does not
focus on fancy graphics, so the applications tend to be more services.

That said, burning an ISO image onto a CD under Windows cannot be such
a challenge, it has been an available feature for decades. I do note
that CDs and DVDs are disappearing form shop shelves even here in
Africa.

Lucio.

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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26  8:36                   ` saif.resun
  2021-03-26  9:39                     ` saif.resun
  2021-03-26 10:03                     ` Richard Miller
@ 2021-03-26 13:20                     ` Wes Kussmaul
  2021-03-26 13:27                       ` hiro
                                         ` (2 more replies)
  2 siblings, 3 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2021-03-26 13:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


On 3/26/21 4:36 AM, saif.resun@outlook.com wrote:
> I want it as a dual booted os on my system

If your Windows system is of recent vintage, that is probably not going 
to work.

I recently purchased, and returned, a high end Lenovo laptop with the 
intent of dual booting it. The replacement of legacy BIOS with UEFI had 
two consequences:

 1. Dual booting is not possible
 2. UEFI introduced vulnerabilities that resulted in the trickbot worm,
    which rewrites your firmware http://trickbot.osmio.ch/

Here's what Lenovo support finally admitted after many rounds of denial:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, it appears this model is UEFI only and does not support 
Legacy Boot.  If Legacy Boot was an option on this device it would be 
enabled by the following (however I do not see this as an option for 
this machine):

  * Entering BIOS via F1
  * Navigating to the Security Tab and selecting Secure Boot
  * Disabling Secure Boot
  * Pressing ESC to go back to main menu
  * Navigating to the Startup Tab and Selecting UEFI / Legacy Boot
  * However this is not an option for the P17 Gen 1 Please see the
    screen shots attached

  Please let me know if this resolves your question.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Imagine being that support rep and having to sign off all messages with 
that last line.

-- 


*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
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t: +1 781 790 1674
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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 13:20                     ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2021-03-26 13:27                       ` hiro
  2021-03-26 16:06                         ` Wes Kussmaul
  2021-03-26 15:07                       ` Richard Miller
  2021-03-26 16:18                       ` Kurt H Maier
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-03-26 13:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> http://trickbot.osmio.ch/
please stop spamming your weird snakeoil bullshit companies here.

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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 13:20                     ` Wes Kussmaul
  2021-03-26 13:27                       ` hiro
@ 2021-03-26 15:07                       ` Richard Miller
  2021-03-26 15:20                         ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-03-26 16:18                       ` Kurt H Maier
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Richard Miller @ 2021-03-26 15:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>  1. Dual booting is not possible
>  2. UEFI introduced vulnerabilities ...

Don't these two things cancel each other out? Can we not use
the same vulnerabilities to induce the firmware to boot our
own choice of operating system? It wouldn't be the first time
Plan 9 was installed using ... shall we say unofficial methods?


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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 15:07                       ` Richard Miller
@ 2021-03-26 15:20                         ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-03-26 15:21                           ` Charles Forsyth
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2021-03-26 15:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 940 bytes --]

I see that 9front has had some UEFI boot support for 6 years.
I use an earlier version of their iplpxe on my 64-bit cpu servers (not
booting 9front).
I did use the iplfat and ipliso as well to boot other kernels.
When I've got a moment I might diff to see what changes I made.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:08 PM Richard Miller <9fans@hamnavoe.com> wrote:

> >  1. Dual booting is not possible
> >  2. UEFI introduced vulnerabilities ...
> 
> Don't these two things cancel each other out? Can we not use
> the same vulnerabilities to induce the firmware to boot our
> own choice of operating system? It wouldn't be the first time
> Plan 9 was installed using ... shall we say unofficial methods?
> 

------------------------------------------
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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2223 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 15:20                         ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-03-26 15:21                           ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-03-28 11:32                             ` Lucio De Re
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2021-03-26 15:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1200 bytes --]

That reminds me that this
https://retrage.github.io/2020/08/01/9pfspkg-en.html looked quite
interesting but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:20 PM Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I see that 9front has had some UEFI boot support for 6 years.
> I use an earlier version of their iplpxe on my 64-bit cpu servers (not
> booting 9front).
> I did use the iplfat and ipliso as well to boot other kernels.
> When I've got a moment I might diff to see what changes I made.
>
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:08 PM Richard Miller <9fans@hamnavoe.com> wrote:
>
>> >  1. Dual booting is not possible
>> >  2. UEFI introduced vulnerabilities ...
>> 
>> Don't these two things cancel each other out? Can we not use
>> the same vulnerabilities to induce the firmware to boot our
>> own choice of operating system? It wouldn't be the first time
>> Plan 9 was installed using ... shall we say unofficial methods?
>> 

------------------------------------------
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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2833 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 13:27                       ` hiro
@ 2021-03-26 16:06                         ` Wes Kussmaul
  2021-03-26 16:12                           ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2021-03-26 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


On 3/26/21 9:27 AM, hiro wrote:
>> http://trickbot.osmio.ch/
> please stop spamming your weird snakeoil bullshit companies here.

While I don't know the details of your arrangement I understand that 
you're partial to Microsoft, which is fine, they're a good company.

But people really do need to know about the hazards that were 
inadvertently introduced with UEFI.

Some systems use Ron Minnich's Coreboot, an excellent alternative.


-- 


*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>

Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 16:06                         ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2021-03-26 16:12                           ` hiro
  2021-03-26 17:26                             ` Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-03-26 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> While I don't know the details of your arrangement I understand that
> you're partial to Microsoft, which is fine, they're a good company.
>
> But people really do need to know about the hazards that were
> inadvertently introduced with UEFI.

sure. but your link is not providing that knowledge.

> Some systems use Ron Minnich's Coreboot, an excellent alternative.

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 13:20                     ` Wes Kussmaul
  2021-03-26 13:27                       ` hiro
  2021-03-26 15:07                       ` Richard Miller
@ 2021-03-26 16:18                       ` Kurt H Maier
  2021-03-26 16:27                         ` Wes Kussmaul
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Kurt H Maier @ 2021-03-26 16:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 09:20:44AM -0400, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
> The replacement of legacy BIOS with UEFI had two consequences:
> 
>  1. Dual booting is not possible


This is false.  Dual-booting works just fine with UEFI; tools like
efibootmgr make it trivial and I do it all the time.  It's much nicer
than having to work with grub.

khm

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 16:18                       ` Kurt H Maier
@ 2021-03-26 16:27                         ` Wes Kussmaul
  2021-03-27 23:14                           ` Ethan Gardener
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2021-03-26 16:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


On 3/26/21 12:18 PM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 09:20:44AM -0400, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
>> The replacement of legacy BIOS with UEFI had two consequences:
>>
>>   1. Dual booting is not possible
>
> This is false.  Dual-booting works just fine with UEFI; tools like
> efibootmgr make it trivial and I do it all the time.  It's much nicer
> than having to work with grub.

Then perhaps it wasn't just UEFI but something else in the system. I 
recall trying to disable Secure Boot with no effect.

If I still had the laptop I would certainly try efibootmgr but as I said 
I sent it back.

At any rate Lenovo had an incentive to make it work (preventing a 
return/refund) and told me it couldn't be done.


-- 


*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>

Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured 
unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with 
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 16:12                           ` hiro
@ 2021-03-26 17:26                             ` Wes Kussmaul
  2021-03-26 18:20                               ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2021-03-26 17:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


On 3/26/21 12:12 PM, hiro wrote:
>> While I don't know the details of your arrangement I understand that
>> you're partial to Microsoft, which is fine, they're a good company.
>>
>> But people really do need to know about the hazards that were
>> inadvertently introduced with UEFI.
> sure. but your link is not providing that knowledge.

Knowledge of the hazard is provided immediately at that link.

As for knowledge of the solution, well, most people are unaware of PKI, 
and the story about how we can get to accountability with privacy has to 
start with an explanation of how PKI works, how it's bigger than 
technology, and how to deploy it so that it delivers what it's supposed to.

We've been working for years on ways to shorten that story.

I have to agree, it would be wonderful to be able to get to the point 
more quickly.

-- 


*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>

Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured 
unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with 
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 17:26                             ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2021-03-26 18:20                               ` hiro
  2021-03-26 19:51                                 ` Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2021-03-26 18:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

the only "knowledge" is a screenshot of some headline of some article
on wired.com
and not even a link to or summary of the article. the rest below is
spam spam and more spam.

On 3/26/21, Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/26/21 12:12 PM, hiro wrote:
>>> While I don't know the details of your arrangement I understand that
>>> you're partial to Microsoft, which is fine, they're a good company.
>>>
>>> But people really do need to know about the hazards that were
>>> inadvertently introduced with UEFI.
>> sure. but your link is not providing that knowledge.
> 
> Knowledge of the hazard is provided immediately at that link.
> 
> As for knowledge of the solution, well, most people are unaware of PKI,
> and the story about how we can get to accountability with privacy has to
> start with an explanation of how PKI works, how it's bigger than
> technology, and how to deploy it so that it delivers what it's supposed to.
> 
> We've been working for years on ways to shorten that story.
> 
> I have to agree, it would be wonderful to be able to get to the point
> more quickly.
> 
> --
> 
> *Wes Kussmaul*
> 
> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
> an Authenticity Enterprise
> 738 Main Street
> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
> t: +1 781 790 1674
> m: +1 781 330 1881
> e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>
> 
> Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>
> 
> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
> 

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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 18:20                               ` hiro
@ 2021-03-26 19:51                                 ` Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2021-03-26 19:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

The original message only included the link parenthetically, to 
illustrate vulnerabilities introduced by UEFI. As in, "Here's one 
example of the problem." It was certainly not introducing a technical 
discussion of either UEFI or Trickbot.

Chill.

On 3/26/21 2:20 PM, hiro wrote:
> the only "knowledge" is a screenshot of some headline of some article
> on wired.com
> and not even a link to or summary of the article. the rest below is
> spam spam and more spam.
>
> On 3/26/21, Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
>> On 3/26/21 12:12 PM, hiro wrote:
>>>> While I don't know the details of your arrangement I understand that
>>>> you're partial to Microsoft, which is fine, they're a good company.
>>>>
>>>> But people really do need to know about the hazards that were
>>>> inadvertently introduced with UEFI.
>>> sure. but your link is not providing that knowledge.
>> Knowledge of the hazard is provided immediately at that link.
>>
>> As for knowledge of the solution, well, most people are unaware of PKI,
>> and the story about how we can get to accountability with privacy has to
>> start with an explanation of how PKI works, how it's bigger than
>> technology, and how to deploy it so that it delivers what it's supposed to.
>>
>> We've been working for years on ways to shorten that story.
>>
>> I have to agree, it would be wonderful to be able to get to the point
>> more quickly.
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Wes Kussmaul*
>>
>> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
>> an Authenticity Enterprise
>> 738 Main Street
>> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
>> t: +1 781 790 1674
>> m: +1 781 330 1881
>> e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>
>>
>> Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>
>>
>> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
>> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
>> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
>> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
>> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
>> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
>> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
>>
> ------------------------------------------
> 9fans: 9fans
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-- 


*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>

Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured 
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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 16:27                         ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2021-03-27 23:14                           ` Ethan Gardener
  2021-03-28  7:28                             ` sirjofri
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2021-03-27 23:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021, at 4:27 PM, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
> 
> On 3/26/21 12:18 PM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 09:20:44AM -0400, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
> >> The replacement of legacy BIOS with UEFI had two consequences:
> >>
> >>   1. Dual booting is not possible
> >
> > This is false.  Dual-booting works just fine with UEFI; tools like
> > efibootmgr make it trivial and I do it all the time.  It's much nicer
> > than having to work with grub.
> 
> Then perhaps it wasn't just UEFI but something else in the system. I 
> recall trying to disable Secure Boot with no effect.
> 
> If I still had the laptop I would certainly try efibootmgr but as I said 
> I sent it back.
> 
> At any rate Lenovo had an incentive to make it work (preventing a 
> return/refund) and told me it couldn't be done.

There are broken UEFI implementations just like there were broken BIOS implementations in the 90s.

https://wiki.osdev.org/Broken_UEFI_implementations

It's certainly not a complete list. Lenovo appears twice, although one of the problems is just a boot logo thing. At least they're not Acer.

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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-27 23:14                           ` Ethan Gardener
@ 2021-03-28  7:28                             ` sirjofri
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-03-28  7:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


28.03.2021 00:14:51 Ethan Gardener <eekee57@fastmail.fm>:
> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021, at 4:27 PM, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
>>
>> On 3/26/21 12:18 PM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 09:20:44AM -0400, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
>>>> The replacement of legacy BIOS with UEFI had two consequences:
>>>>
>>>>   1. Dual booting is not possible
>>>
>>> This is false.  Dual-booting works just fine with UEFI; tools like
>>> efibootmgr make it trivial and I do it all the time.  It's much nicer
>>> than having to work with grub.
>>
>> Then perhaps it wasn't just UEFI but something else in the system. I
>> recall trying to disable Secure Boot with no effect.
>>
>> If I still had the laptop I would certainly try efibootmgr but as I 
>> said
>> I sent it back.
>>
>> At any rate Lenovo had an incentive to make it work (preventing a
>> return/refund) and told me it couldn't be done.
>
> There are broken UEFI implementations just like there were broken BIOS 
> implementations in the 90s.
>
> https://wiki.osdev.org/Broken_UEFI_implementations
>
> It's certainly not a complete list. Lenovo appears twice, although one 
> of the problems is just a boot logo thing. At least they're not Acer.

I remember back in the days when I bought my lenovo laptop in 2014 
something. UEFI was still new to me, and it was my first UEFI product. I 
bombarded lenovo with questions about the UEFI and secure boot since I 
wanted to install linux on it. They responded with a proper answer and a 
link.

The link led to an online/web bios interface simulation where you could 
click around the firmware settings. It was model specific, so I suppose 
the same exists for their other products.

On the same page were instructions about replacing parts and more, it was 
a page for support people and lenovo partners.

sirjofri

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* Re: [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image
  2021-03-26 15:21                           ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-03-28 11:32                             ` Lucio De Re
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread
From: Lucio De Re @ 2021-03-28 11:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On 3/26/21, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote:
> That reminds me that this
> https://retrage.github.io/2020/08/01/9pfspkg-en.html looked quite
> interesting but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.
>
I have followed the instructions and with a little help (I filed an
issue and I got a prompt, helpful response - I also discovered I
needed "nasm" on my LinuxMint system), I completed the build
successfully.

So, Charles, if you know what to do with the extremely interesting
product, please provide some guidance :-). I have no idea of the
context in which the remaining instructions are meant to be executed.

Lucio.

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-03-28 11:32 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 31+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-03-25  9:53 [9fans] problem with installing plan9 from USB disk image saif.resun
2021-03-25 20:14 ` Richard Miller
2021-03-25 20:30   ` saif.resun
2021-03-25 20:40     ` Richard Miller
2021-03-25 20:51     ` saif.resun
2021-03-25 20:56       ` Richard Miller
2021-03-26  5:46         ` saif.resun
2021-03-26  6:53           ` Alexander Kapshuk
2021-03-26  7:35             ` Lucio De Re
2021-03-26  7:53               ` saif.resun
2021-03-26  8:34                 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2021-03-26  8:36                   ` saif.resun
2021-03-26  9:39                     ` saif.resun
2021-03-26 10:03                     ` Richard Miller
2021-03-26 13:20                     ` Wes Kussmaul
2021-03-26 13:27                       ` hiro
2021-03-26 16:06                         ` Wes Kussmaul
2021-03-26 16:12                           ` hiro
2021-03-26 17:26                             ` Wes Kussmaul
2021-03-26 18:20                               ` hiro
2021-03-26 19:51                                 ` Wes Kussmaul
2021-03-26 15:07                       ` Richard Miller
2021-03-26 15:20                         ` Charles Forsyth
2021-03-26 15:21                           ` Charles Forsyth
2021-03-28 11:32                             ` Lucio De Re
2021-03-26 16:18                       ` Kurt H Maier
2021-03-26 16:27                         ` Wes Kussmaul
2021-03-27 23:14                           ` Ethan Gardener
2021-03-28  7:28                             ` sirjofri
2021-03-26 10:03                 ` Ethan Gardener
2021-03-26 11:01                 ` Lucio De Re

9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

This inbox may be cloned and mirrored by anyone:

	git clone --mirror http://inbox.vuxu.org/9fans

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V1 9fans 9fans/ http://inbox.vuxu.org/9fans \
		9fans@9fans.net
	public-inbox-index 9fans

Example config snippet for mirrors.
Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://inbox.vuxu.org/vuxu.archive.9fans


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git