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Wed, 18 Aug 2021 04:47:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a2e:7606:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 04:47:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <12DD420A-50B4-4270-A042-DFFF58F73BA6@pixelheresy.com> References: <27f9d66f-4fe9-4c5f-b622-f11c7a231cfd@www.fastmail.com> <12DD420A-50B4-4270-A042-DFFF58F73BA6@pixelheresy.com> From: Lucio De Re Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 13:47:25 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] Software philosophy To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 1303019a-001a-11ec-8295-eabb4eddc928 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UOWVmNjQzMGYzMDI1ZTczMS1NMDk1M2Q5ZDMxMGFmNmQ4N2ZiMzVm?= =?UTF-8?B?Y2ZmPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M0953d9d310af6d87fb35fcff:1:mcLeMndux5kIgJLw6aCl9qOupjXTJLaYNm1zGPUDkFY Yoh! What can I say? I kind of cherish being so wildly misrepresented. At least I'm taken seriously, even if totally misunderstood. Lucio. On 8/18/21, Keith Gibbs wrote: > Come, come, Vester. Please don=E2=80=99t introduce false premises under t= he guise of > calling them out. I never said that. 9front as the official Plan 9 would = be > pretty absurd. > > I never said it was *the* development branch. It is *a* development branc= h. > I could even imagine that it may in fact be the most popular and active f= or > those wishing to develop new software on (with 9miller being very popular= as > well). > > If fact, I noted other projects... other Plan 9s as well in my initial and > my response to Lucio. I was merely pointing out that Lucio in the past and > in the OAuth thread keeps introducing the idea that the P9F should impose > order and wall off everything but 9legacy [which he implies is the offici= al > one], even to the point of arguing in the past that 9front developers sho= uld > port changes that are =E2=80=9Cgood for the community=E2=80=9D or some su= ch to the =E2=80=9Cactual=E2=80=9D > Plan 9. > > Instea the charter for P9F's language was written to be inclusive. Why? > Because historically this mailing list/community has been host to discuss= ion > for 9legacy, 9atom, 9front, p9p, etc. Even Inferno or Harvey come up > semi-regularly. As such, it is not outside the general understanding of > =E2=80=9CPlan 9=E2=80=9D as encompassing a wider berth. Although many of = the P9F folk are > contributors to 9legacy, I think they know that the community is broader = and > want all of it to be =E2=80=9CPlan 9=E2=80=9D. > > So in the end, I apologise if it was unclear or confusing that I suggested > to Lucio that 9front was to be "Plan 9 from Bell Labs Version 5=E2=80=9D.= It was a > joke and everything I wrote following that should have made that very cle= ar > that I was arguing *specifically* for a plurality of Plan 9s rather than a > single one [which Lucio was advocating for]. Lucio seems to hate 9front > specifically for some reason, so the initial statement was intended as > tongue in cheek. > > Both 9legacy and 9front serve important niche functions within Plan 9 spa= ce, > but neither *are* Plan 9. There is only one =E2=80=9Cofficial=E2=80=9D Pl= an 9 and that was > last updated January 2015. 9legacy positions itself as patch set on top of > V4, but wants to maintain it in such a way that V4 will always function as > V4. 9legacy maintains that it is not a fork. 9front says explicitly that = it > is a fork of V4 and a continuation based on it=E2=80=99s core principles.= Both have > fed into each other=E2=80=99s ecosystems. Hell, 9legacy=E2=80=99s site ev= en says to run Plan > 9 from Bell Labs rather than 9legacy if possible, which is kind of funny. > And NIX is still active, last I heard, but currently has a closed communi= ty, > not to mention Harvey and Jeanne. > > So my main point was that we have a plurality and we *should* continue to > have a plurality. Much like Lucio would find 9front as being blessed as = =E2=80=9Cthe > official one true Plan 9=E2=80=9D repugnant, so too would others re: 9leg= acy. A fair > swathe of the Plan 9 enthusiast community want to build and evolve and a > fair swathe want to preserve and maintain, with some incremental quality = of > life tweaks added in, and *both are totally valid*. > > -pixelheresy > >> On 18. Aug 2021, at 13.13, vic.thacker@fastmail.fm wrote: >> >> Starting from a false premise does not help. 9front is not a development >> branch of Plan 9. Plan 9 is Plan 9. 9front is 9front. 9front is an >> open-source fork or derivation of Plan 9. >> >> Trying to make 9front the new and official Plan 9 does seem absurd. I'm >> not sure why there is a strong need for validation. 9front does not need >> official recognition. Let 9front be what it is. It can exist independent >> of the Plan 9 name. >> >> Sincerely, >> Vester >> --=20 Lucio De Re 2 Piet Retief St Kestell (Eastern Free State) 9860 South Africa Ph.: +27 58 653 1433 Cell: +27 83 251 5824 ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T9ef6430f3025e731-M0953d= 9d310af6d87fb35fcff Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription