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Wed, 15 May 2024 01:57:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4FB3A3BB-1CFA-4BC7-9DC2-CC9138B8325C@gmail.com> <2ff4cb73-352f-44e1-844b-5bb6cc92e1fe@posixcafe.org> In-Reply-To: <2ff4cb73-352f-44e1-844b-5bb6cc92e1fe@posixcafe.org> From: Lucio De Re Date: Wed, 15 May 2024 11:02:10 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9. To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000000000000ce03e706187a4e9e Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 2c2ff92c-1299-11ef-a93d-d825e61565bf Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYWQzZGMwYzkzMDM5YTdkMi1NNTE3MzZmNmY0N2QwMGM0NWI3ZmRl?= =?UTF-8?B?ZWQ4Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M51736f6f47d00c45b7fdeed8:1:DAJxHQDD-FJwx1zw7v4SPKlQXIDewIBOUkgcWnWUVL4 --000000000000ce03e706187a4e9e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have asked precisely NOTHING and have only pointed out the consequences of omitting sources from the 9front distribution because it leads to undesirable divisions. I do find it tiresome that you keep ascribing intentions to me that may well reflect precisely how YOU would feel and react in my position. I assure I am nothing like that and I'm sure my history on 9fans for the past 20+ years would reflect that. But then again, people have abandoned 9fans in the past for reasons not dissimilar from these; I can read the undercurrent ("because you are asking for other people to maintain your software for you for free"), I am not impolite enough to respond in kind. Lucio. On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 8:05=E2=80=AFAM Jacob Moody w= rote: > On 5/14/24 23:46, Lucio De Re wrote: > > If this comes across as a troll, keep in mind that it is your > interpretation that makes it so, a lesson we South Africans are still busy > learning, at our country's expense. > > > > I've got Fossil running under 9front; thanks to all those who prodded me > (and others). I would be happier knowing that there is a "canonical" > version rather than at least two varieties as appears to be the case from > the above discussion, but I'd rather not spoil the moment. > > > > My point all along was that if the source (Fossil or other) is not > included in the (9front) distribution, a (bad) decision is being made by > arbitrary (non)contributors for all the silent participants who may not > even know about it. Why would anyone want to play God? Isn't Google bad > enough? > The decision was not made by an arbitrary contributor on a whim, it was > decided after people maintaining 9front got sick > and tired of dealing with people's data getting minced. Effort was put in > to the two (and soon to be three) other > file systems that have had a much better reliability track record. The > intent was to nudge people away from > using what was deemed buggy software. If you want this to change then > either you or someone else needs to step up and maintain > the software. You are asking for 9front to take on the burden of > maintaining an additional old buggy filesystem > because it makes your life a tiny bit easier? > > A bit hard to tell from your wording but either you are saying the > contributor became a "noncontributor" by deleting > fossil or are you accusing the person who deleted fossil as being > generally a "noncontributor"? > If you had spent even 10 seconds looking at the git history you would have > seen that the one to pull the plug and > delete fossil was cinap and not some random passerby. > > Do you not see the irony here? You, a most certain "noncontributor", are > demanding that we do what you want without any intent of doing any of the > work yourself. > Why can you not just tar up your files and put them on a supported > filesystem? Why are we still having this discussion? > > > > > I concede that I didn't know myself what I was looking for (I think what > "I" need is for 9legacy to boot, install and possibly run, from a USB sti= ck > on any PC hardware, and support both IDE and SATA where present) and my > rather vague question was intended to make the details less sketchy. > Instead, I got a tirade about what I was or was not ready, willing or able > to contribute. Fortunately, that tends to have the desired effect with me, > so right now I haven't yet recovered my decades of pretty > > pointless effort, but I know I can do it, with sufficient application, > it is no longer lost or teetering on edge of the abyss. > > Yes because you are asking for other people to maintain your software for > you for free. 9front maintainers do not want to do > this, so the reaction is going to be to do it yourself. I don't know why > this is seen as a surprising outcome. > > On 5/14/24 18:19, michaelian ennis wrote: > > > > > > > > The flurries of traffic on this list often seem to have a negative tone > to me. It means a lot to me when the conversations are supportive. >=20 > I agree, I would like to have positive interactions towards working on > solutions to current problems. I would much prefer if conversations > trended towards these type of topics. We seem to have no issue keeping > things like this at IWP9 (for the most part). >=20 --=20 Lucio De Re 2 Piet Retief St Kestell (Eastern Free State) 9860 South Africa Ph.: +27 58 653 1433 Cell: +27 83 251 5824 ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tad3dc0c93039a7d2-M51736= f6f47d00c45b7fdeed8 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --000000000000ce03e706187a4e9e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have asked precisely NOTHING and have o= nly pointed out the consequences of omitting sources from the 9front distri= bution because it leads to undesirable divisions.

I do= find it tiresome that you keep ascribing intentions to me that may well re= flect precisely how YOU would feel and react in my position. I assure I am = nothing like that and I'm sure my history on 9fans for the past 20+ yea= rs would reflect that. But then again, people have abandoned 9fans in the p= ast for reasons not dissimilar from these; I can read the undercurrent (&qu= ot;because you are asking for other people to maintain your software for yo= u for free"), I am not impolite enough to respond in kind.
<= br />
Lucio.

On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 8:05 AM Jacob = Moody <moody@posixcafe.org>= ; wrote:
On 5/= 14/24 23:46, Lucio De Re wrote:
> If this comes across as a troll, keep in mind that it is your interpre= tation that makes it so, a lesson we South Africans are still busy learning= , at our country's expense.
>
> I've got Fossil running under 9front; thanks to all those who prod= ded me (and others). I would be happier knowing that there is a "canon= ical" version rather than at least two varieties as appears to be the = case from the above discussion, but I'd rather not spoil the moment. >
> My point all along was that if the source (Fossil or other) is not inc= luded in the (9front) distribution, a (bad) decision is being made by arbit= rary (non)contributors for all the silent participants who may not even kno= w about it. Why would anyone want to play God? Isn't Google bad enough?=
The decision was not made by an arbitrary contributor on a whim, it was dec= ided after people maintaining 9front got sick
and tired of dealing with people's data getting minced. Effort was put = in to the two (and soon to be three) other
file systems that have had a much better reliability track record. The inte= nt was to nudge people away from
using what was deemed buggy software. If you want this to change then eithe= r you or someone else needs to step up and maintain
the software. You are asking for 9front to take on the burden of maintainin= g an additional old buggy filesystem
because it makes your life a tiny bit easier?

A bit hard to tell from your wording but either you are saying the contribu= tor became a "noncontributor" by deleting
fossil or are you accusing the person who deleted fossil as being generally= a "noncontributor"?
If you had spent even 10 seconds looking at the git history you would have = seen that the one to pull the plug and
delete fossil was cinap and not some random passerby.

Do you not see the irony here? You, a most certain "noncontributor&quo= t;, are demanding that we do what you want without any intent of doing any = of the work yourself.
Why can you not just tar up your files and put them on a supported filesyst= em? Why are we still having this discussion?

>
> I concede that I didn't know myself what I was looking for (I thin= k what "I" need is for 9legacy to boot, install and possibly run,= from a USB stick on any PC hardware, and support both IDE and SATA where p= resent) and my rather vague question was intended to make the details less = sketchy. Instead, I got a tirade about what I was or was not ready, willing= or able to contribute. Fortunately, that tends to have the desired effect = with me, so right now I haven't yet recovered my decades of pretty
> pointless effort, but I know I can do it, with sufficient application,= it is no longer lost or teetering on edge of the abyss.

Yes because you are asking for other people to maintain your software for y= ou for free. 9front maintainers do not want to do
this, so the reaction is going to be to do it yourself. I don't know wh= y this is seen as a surprising outcome.

On 5/14/24 18:19, michaelian ennis wrote:
>
>
>
> The flurries of traffic on this list often seem to have a negative ton= e to me.  It means a lot to me when the conversations are supportive.<= br />
I agree, I would like to have positive interactions towards working on solu= tions to current problems. I would much prefer if conversations
trended towards these type of topics. We seem to have no issue keeping thin= gs like this at IWP9 (for the most part).


------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https:= //9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tad3dc0c93039a7d2-Me7dff9ba3eef0718fabede= 05
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/gro= ups/9fans/subscription


--
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief St
= Kestell (Eastern Free State)
9860 South Africa

Ph.: +27 58 = 653 1433
Cell: +27 83 251 5824
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