From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 32210 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2021 06:27:39 -0000 Received: from tb-ob20.topicbox.com (173.228.157.66) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Sep 2021 06:27:39 -0000 Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob20.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94CD26678 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 2021 02:27:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bounce.mM6e8d1a56fa784994195e1a3b.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id 70C0A34A89F3; Sat, 4 Sep 2021 02:27:36 -0400 (EDT) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=FJI9Cywi header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f174.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:to :content-type:list-help:list-id:list-post:list-subscribe :reply-to:subject:content-transfer-encoding:list-unsubscribe; s= sysmsg-1; t=1630736856; bh=5hnsyqyYNtsy/krlRmXsMfOaTWg+vE7xixhbs QmBvVM=; b=JOLRCktVel35YuJ0GtTZGPEdwqcsQ1vMjH3g0pwwGDvZG7eintXXb UMO6CR24t30tGw7nhbda9mHuPo3tNIEMJNdckehJmVkDJakQgnI3jzW7SO0n4PNk 39xG7MTgzZkq8NJjqKUNkMI4bX33o4gwrFaCTTdd5bMqMs0IKORWCE= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1630736856; b=IUYSBNLw9cRuv3OvlrPlYIlg318Nv3G1ExmalrDoLJvYiBO4C/ B/eslzVai1PiTM6CR04lOWmjXdezEwO6TYTE9QGyxgZoY8H0+0yI1sUvVVeziUt6 LlLJwdaLlaWRIMoub3ZvW9jrJXQ771vA3I6rBvvcwy/PGKDYHkp8chVDs= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=FJI9Cywi header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f174.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=FJI9Cywi header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.208.174 (mail-lj1-f174.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f174.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=Do7nUaKk; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f174.google.com policy.ptr=mail-lj1-f174.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h= mime-version:from:date:message-id:to:content-type:list-help :list-id:list-post:list-subscribe:reply-to:subject :content-transfer-encoding:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; bh=5hnsyq yYNtsy/krlRmXsMfOaTWg+vE7xixhbsQmBvVM=; b=qT6zzXCztNvRmmVwt4G7Qt UYc+K/DxGvktA75tk2yqaWzSJ71zW+4cJa9EJ7qy8wk2d2FC9Xb0S8GCM5Nhcblj Rb7zNylT7S3LPQseyf7w39MrNJ4pvX9HjovjSnUL8CtEoqSe9D1xytuB3sGtwTbM ENOhrWnFhq+4sxJB79zj4= Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD3C34A85F6 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Sat, 4 Sep 2021 02:27:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lucio.dere@gmail.com) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id 2B81815805C; Sat, 4 Sep 2021 02:27:23 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1630736843; b=ISka/1lSECH5FwRD7XKUQE8z/0SEiSqJH4xK2JWNmwZCHLHa5X FcBY456Tc46Bg84lKpUYmoTLHciVLvGafi42G/J1pQrbUG6TPkOTd1vRPG7CoHfI WoKHnqijJJiBST2CCyopKRySEhDyaNA674Q7Zj6ekzqX1cw/8pxo79aXujYxCpZE Xnzp2j2aO4BwkzErhyFl2atN34YSNxfo/83ng8FGu6MiRn33KTPgftx943JeFrhz RLBg/VYqp3dLlWcm9C/qIIsyiKglCcsLR+qjPknoNyW6O7KUCHU2P2v8IkpnLc7Y ir2173APdCvrljCgEwmnCoegHf88pKLfntTg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; s=arcseal; t=1630736843; bh=Fyb5ysSrQXU5IOvmFEPV2 cDbrWRcUFwExP6zmVP/AOY=; b=oGqSlqbxu3BAgENHUZk1sBtCSZZRJK5AAAl8p WbiMZX5sbrnKk8panULTi9+IxZ5a0/3SO6X1yxQcf/rZwVTV1P9ZUmi4XzWxLNjU E9SXmDxxCCOSF0Z3NQxrZhlxephCWa4HEughhCtHNCK7RB9usVdWGtKUfTb0euHB WYW1ArdeknKxCw3idoClkGZYZGp3/EOfkvbSlixQIvZXy4fRF68Faa451SAphLG0 hRoomneFDqmEGQstPhmueTrEt0omSgu0Y6xPEWvCgV1qqAn1zY/zBFT+E1ddEdPU ppw569+4rzY1Q3W0/eqKWARHTcn6jIqc7h0YUgwkLKOzze/yw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=FJI9Cywi header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.208.174 (mail-lj1-f174.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f174.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=Do7nUaKk; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f174.google.com policy.ptr=mail-lj1-f174.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddruddvkedgheefucdltddurdegudehrddttd dmucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgf nhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttd enucenucfjughrpefhfffkuffvtgesthdtredttddtjeenucfhrhhomhepnfhutghiohcu ffgvucftvgcuoehluhgtihhordguvghrvgesghhmrghilhdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnheptdegjefhuefgtefgjeevtefgjefftdfgkeffgefhieeiudejveeltddvtefg veegnecukfhppedvtdelrdekhedrvddtkedrudejgeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpe dtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpedvtdelrdekhedrvddtkedrudejgedphhgvlhhopehm rghilhdqlhhjuddqfhdujeegrdhgohhoghhlvgdrtghomhdpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeolh hutghiohdruggvrhgvsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqe X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'lucio.dere@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx0.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="lucio.dere@gmail.com"; helo=mail-lj1-f174.google.com; client-ip=209.85.208.174 Received: from mail-lj1-f174.google.com (mail-lj1-f174.google.com [209.85.208.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Sat, 4 Sep 2021 02:27:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lucio.dere@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-f174.google.com with SMTP id f2so2183366ljn.1 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 23:27:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Fyb5ysSrQXU5IOvmFEPV2cDbrWRcUFwExP6zmVP/AOY=; b=Do7nUaKk32/FrhjupzlksUbAMugyHFQXz9Sv9m4shG6OccRDrcVPg3Qm/LS1T+z2dd /kblJCdsBnX/BmWhQEoUXKbvobmcbJ6CW4XGn/CN6XxgNX/bXHMa9lTcqAmd1YBkI0IL calkcyod8qCi4gcCEVc7aMm7NfQSoRMpActldbEMjJDztdK3dCoTKi41AKj91BL5h8kb jiZQRf/ZfwDVHUwudp7aAh/vfUmQjt6HpZ6cFJRsbD2y7xC5sMXrlaGRCRgkhuLLiYAi DBNQSZ+khB2wo7EVHqqQXiNo77btXpc6uE1rn7LntLQhKaJKTKP0TgeJiAWfZonoP4Un lh9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530PaZDf2fZjWqaBB7vWWwULgBMhJ1dnQELIsTqF6uzuRqAxZMT2 +ZB7hqtpyJWT5WGjlEimxrxy0R5UB67F/d3PhLNlEpnYFKE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzPEebhUD4S4iYaM0vpfn9swtbC9isCRmMpgwJChjeHHjfiuyEQ0ovcVyW0rjVd45onDvLE4KUeuBtXCJSM8qk= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7304:: with SMTP id o4mr1931127ljc.51.1630736841403; Fri, 03 Sep 2021 23:27:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a2e:7606:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Sep 2021 23:27:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Lucio De Re Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2021 08:27:21 +0200 Message-ID: To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 2d7cf58a-0d49-11ec-8b66-91a585a5dd16 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UZmY3ZWMzYjdmMTExNDI4Ni1NNmU4ZDFhNTZmYTc4NDk5NDE5NWUx?= =?UTF-8?B?YTNiPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: [9fans] 9hybrid on T61 - work in progress (small beginnings?) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M6e8d1a56fa784994195e1a3b:1:H_A1pP-8osxRcWVR7x7OOFcgKS3mZUO70Nt9WuzjvOM The combination of (IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad) T60 chassis and T61 mother board is known as FrankenPad, I learnt since I bought a none too well refurbished Lenovo T61 7659-CTO laptop for a moderate price. I had long wished I could get a T61, so that was some impulsive buying. Maybe I should have spent the money (my guess is around $ 100 US) on a brand new Raspberry Pi I've also been wishing for, but I could not resist. The 9front fraternity may be pleased to hear that this new addition to my stable of obsolete equipment is currently capable of running both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of 9front - I just realised I'll need to compile executables for both architectures indefinitely, I wonder how many times that will bite me? To run under 32 bits I resorted to network booting (from my long suffering traditional Plan 9 network server), but that won't load the 64-bit kernel, complaining that it is too big. I tried compressing it, but netbooting no longer supports compression. I paired down the kernel a bit, but seemingly not enough. I presume 9front has ways to netboot a 64-bit kernel, but it isn't critical, yet - it would just fill what is a rather obvious hole that 9front and 9legacy (for want of a more suitable moniker - 9pf doesn't seem right) seem to suffer from differently. And, yes, this could be the start of a long, offline whinge about differences, I have long evolved a flameproof skin for this particular purpose. But first, let me tell my cautionary tale, it was quite an adventure and I am happy to act as proxy for those who may want to go in a similar direction. I had the idea to install both 9front and 9legacy on the T61 and thought I might run cwfs in the former case after discovering then that 9front has enhanced cwfs - which I have never used, but did for a long time use kenfs standalone - so I followed their lead for that. For 9legacy, I'm fine with fossil/venti, it has saved my bacon a few times and I respect its capabilities fully. So, where should I have started? Obviously, this being the non-deterministic world of New Computing (TM), I followed my head and installed 9front - no one argues that it is the one most likely to work on a T61. I can't quite recall how, but I managed to do something that in retrospect was not a great idea: I set up two Plan 9 primary partitions using Linux Mint off a USB stick - Windows was just not an option, in my experience, for editing partition tables. I left Windows 7 Professional installed, but shrank the partition to a safe, much smaller size - that left some scar tissue, incidentally, but irrelevant to this tale. The 9front installation completed without any memorable trouble and I left the boot loader unchanged (as instructed). Somehow, boot selection didn't work as I wished and I blamed the double partition for my woes. Time to start again, this time with the 9legacy bootstrap that I was in any case more comfortable with and only one, combined Plan 9 partition. It looks as if 9front used the same partitioning scheme as 9legacy. I got some idea of partition allocations to "other", "fscache" and "fsworm" from a recent disk/prep display, so I decided to configure the drive with fossil and venti partitions, leaving enough space for 9front, when I would eventually re-install it. The 9legacy installation almost, almost worked. I assigned half the plan9 partition to fossil, arenas, isect and bloom and left space for 9front. I assumed that nvram and 9fat would need to be shared. Except I got some spurious errors in the very last stage of writing the bootstrap loader and what looked like an otherwise happy installation simply could not be completed. I could not get past the final stage of 9legacy installation. The complaint was that 9fat could not be created, or perhaps something could not be written to that partition - from memory, it was the error one encounters after a server connection has failed. At that point only a reboot made sense to me. Of course, rebooting with the plan9 partition active didn't do anything useful. It's likely that this is when I also discovered that the Windows partitions were no longer recognised as bootable. That lost me the Windows recovery capability on the drive, but that was never an essential, no regrets. With a partially complete 9legacy installation, the time had come to see what 9front was good for. So I repeated that installation. When the time came to allocate disk space, however, 9front installation had no record of the previous content of the plan9 partition. As I had started to keep track of such things, I just proceeded with manual partitioning (not as wisely as I imagined, I am only now discovering). I set up all the partitions I could think of - and made a few judgemental mistakes, it turns out, but I didn't notice, so I could actually continue. The completed 9front installation this time included the 9front boot loader - which I will have to become more familar with, for obvious reasons. I have accepted that Windows will require special attention and will almost certainly not get it any time soon. With a working 9front installation, I was a lot more confident, ready to try 9legacy once more. If I made any additional preparations at this point, I do not remember them. Once again, 9legacy installation (fossil+venti) proceeded as expected, with manual disk preparation, using the space left by 9front. The installation had respected the previous settings, which needed some manual rearrangement. Once again, after a successful run, the penultimate step reported the same 9fat trouble and the last step simply failed altogether, just like before. Now, with a working 9front (32-bit) installation known to be working, thinking that I had sound foundations in place, I proceeded to do some post-installation configuration of the 9front system. It took a separate adventure to update the sources and regenerate the system including the amd64 version. The details also raise some issues, so expect a separate report for that. Small tweaks to plan9.ini - thank you, Stanley - allowed me to switch to the newer, more appropriate architecture, which is what I'm running now. I have had a netboot system in place just about forever and I thought I would use that to get past my lack of familiarity with 9front booting to be able to switch between 64-bit and 32-bit 9front and plausibly also 9legacy without a working boot loader and a suitable plan9.ini configuration. I think I mentioned that the Plan 9 bootloader refuses to work with the 64-bit kernel (that may be my error, in that I have no idea how the switch in architectures is likely to take place and where). It loads the 32-bit kernels adequately, so that it is possible for me to run normally under amd64 9front, with the 386 option available on demand. I can load the 9legacy kernel this way too, but it fails to access the SATA drive and fails quite miserably. If I boot off CD, though, using 9pcflop, I can access the 9legacy system and start both venti and fossil. I can also edit the 9fat partition, so that is food for thought. Venti works on 9front as well. For now, while the arenas are completely empty, the behaviour of venti is consistent across these flavours. In the long run, I'd like the two flavours (9front and 9legacy) to be both bootable in the available architectures (386 and amd64) and to be able to access each other's file systems at all times. That seems possible if fossil can be ported to 9front and cwfs64x to 9legacy - I haven't looked for such options yet, not while 9legacy is not an option. How other flavours (9atom, nix, etc.) can then be shoehorned into such a single ecosystem is a much more complex matter to resolve. There are many questions raised as a result of the efforts described above, I'll try to formulate them so that they can be resolved objectively. Private mail with suggestions, comments, insults and praise will be entertained as best I can. Lucio. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tff7ec3b7f1114286-M6e8d1= a56fa784994195e1a3b Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription