From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21848 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2021 12:42:45 -0000 Received: from tb-ob0.topicbox.com (64.147.108.117) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 31 Dec 2021 12:42:45 -0000 Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (tb-mx1.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.61]) by tb-ob0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6C1219E7 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 07:42:43 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bounce.mMda6222ee0cc841b923ca9f0e.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id E38DCC74F95; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 07:42:43 -0500 (EST) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=C8UbRR6+ header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lf1-f47.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type:list-help:list-id:list-post :list-subscribe:reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t=1640954563; bh=aTdkFywJSCxCGLGw pS5PAgJrxdLz/0v8IiBMhKClwbI=; b=M+0XAlRRvtX+s30xUnjK+YCNwac6CLRp TaFzfFgTyW8LCjTq54BeQIRYJQLHlQlJNl54D8848EvCaP+N05n9Rr9CBQhSJdyB oyTqbuXsWo9DixUXbrF8Zw/nUFM4jlgIJpwiYgtgya1QcOQEdoynFBxVISNpjscx p2Eh/MnlFiQ= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1640954563; b=ohj7GUz2jZXCR/oXoSmFE6tqvO7J/in46mOCyJhUChIlrdM4S2 HVkVvWCr7KyOHqWUIPp+mWCElPFKXbNUV9eXmIQ5dUbxlFmT4SXCd2dLq4oTAErQ KW/aT406UKok6VSsk0rzG51nxatEs7uDp6RZQMlqtdpl1TYhNnUZRVrLs= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=C8UbRR6+ header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lf1-f47.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=C8UbRR6+ header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.167.47 (mail-lf1-f47.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lf1-f47.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=FVG/rPQH; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-lf1-f47.google.com policy.ptr=mail-lf1-f47.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h= mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject :to:content-type:list-help:list-id:list-post:list-subscribe :reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; bh=ULOBMTJCz3c7Exoch2JTmjwiHskFRcqrJSYfZCED0fw=; b=L9nKeTa8n6vG 3hYPtIsDNJQFupNi9rEORlrqMSI3lKHZPHAMAf8YsiRL8EJkD0XvJ8swyQVuLS1i Mw+huf8wGKzKBhgellzCFgzT6pb1hxQjvnBz1h8LIoOAy0+Bm2cLfm02jim1lxx2 WBUWU47yiNMPLHOq3Y+eZp4kmvcF0x8= Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FD5C74B90 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 07:42:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lucio.dere@gmail.com) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id 0BD7D16BB66; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 07:42:31 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1640954551; b=SwoTsaYjvloLfMNc7Zr8fhKtyB3KHhDCfd9VCG+mGzfJWKHocQ VkY+2DsLWnxx2ibLWZdW2tIJ8HIZXPREBXySVJMHpOWrAOhs2splFZKUXoJ5XUdS kOUwBw9ZlqbKlUZdB4Tvpu9POD8TzC34slvQr2IMEEEcM1LsKi3r/KMiRaY+Purr taUOuJx2juFYVQVt1bHAozG5DL/VgvBntt+85/5LgoVDe6o3b6+ki/4Ous5XsFNM pnChx33HwYkVj/RJi+/4ZbH/JQlYyZLNx02iytgmyNpEQ6bboED4U+KEc2zxYZkG xwEwacYWxCceMRa3NhxZLg68hgpyc5D89OPw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type; s=arcseal; t=1640954551; bh=43ekrxawHIl6ZQHJM/KkJhCeFHbElSoxOuCTlaXJtOk=; b=i24mlsXnGIOT 0J+lboApy11R4QGBbOFNrB6jnpJ0VcvNlpJ+4ST93iUf+tpD+g27/vA628piNOcd gm4trUueiieKrEwt5UjJgYFWd1KUtA7WeqY4ZlO2lo9xx1Qn/GJnzMTvlWo9gO+I ZPK48nkK7vV3YWO50RNejmuAtSStm/j2PvyHd7B8akBMVcBstUQ6UwyRzaXYcTPF uqXyxlvyCRjG0etu9DYlYzZqOzGYy2rIZ7SuJlcO5n0FkIo0r42a1XLN1UnHeSTL LWEO8NcCHMYuazmAO4rSGdPMGtOs2kEj4awgh84x8Fdm1VCKBZRaSwSBcgpZldTr lyN2jO4nZA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=C8UbRR6+ header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.167.47 (mail-lf1-f47.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lf1-f47.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=FVG/rPQH; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-lf1-f47.google.com policy.ptr=mail-lf1-f47.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddruddujedgleejucdltddurdegudehrddttd dmucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgf nhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttd enucenucfjughrpegjfhfhfffkuffvtgesthdtredttddtjeenucfhrhhomhepnfhutghi ohcuffgvucftvgcuoehluhgtihhordguvghrvgesghhmrghilhdrtghomheqnecuggftrf grthhtvghrnhepffdvgeeikeettdekhfehvdehveehtefhhfdthfejgedtudduieehledt feefiedvnecukfhppedvtdelrdekhedrudeijedrgeejnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivg eptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvthepvddtledrkeehrdduieejrdegjedphhgvlhhopehm rghilhdqlhhfuddqfhegjedrghhoohhglhgvrdgtohhmpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoehluh gtihhordguvghrvgesghhmrghilhdrtghomheq X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'lucio.dere@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx1.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="lucio.dere@gmail.com"; helo=mail-lf1-f47.google.com; client-ip=209.85.167.47 Received: from mail-lf1-f47.google.com (mail-lf1-f47.google.com [209.85.167.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 07:42:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lucio.dere@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-f47.google.com with SMTP id x7so60120160lfu.8 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 04:42:31 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=43ekrxawHIl6ZQHJM/KkJhCeFHbElSoxOuCTlaXJtOk=; b=FVG/rPQHwfQKbm/xb3lBIxn6ga9CrsrheQiRbHZS+dhCYnHoTzBBz6QRy0R4KgGzK7 isZcSJ813uuVp1yYI9J5LtBZgMbAjjmDc8+5ciIazIOXwlRDSlk9L647FE0jf/XL6sdY F+gQuYrUj7XE978y6CIygWhH30zNGednwOvb4wgFN42SHyuGS5D4QwG0+3ndsHdJkn8O jruke13wkeCyizA+UA8Lg//rwUy5FwbU76LlivRDj+R4DOGQrs/WDP+9kJcc4JATZeUl rplopWwoygcXKVLw/vRHzv5ySUS4o0fxbdvOOfpGrnGSqf902fTzsioZGQ+iLiqmX22p TsPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531wbdIxla0Yr0T7h6xaSyL8Z/dSSbp4fiYDxnUUU0XhRdBRBdR9 FjqZErDkY3prxmXzDPGmboBILaEzKlNDcDgdYI09yUPn X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzBde6dYuyef43SEtzteuYZpxaCGNYY2j4NvPqJGf0ev0gGwvw4W84xjhmwQHyM8zPQR+4rZseliChFV4yuFt4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:22d6:: with SMTP id g22mr31801493lfu.199.1640954549579; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 04:42:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a2e:bb90:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 04:42:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20211228100631.57c374374ebfc4c5e082ec69@gmx.com> <20211228102954.7719df6c64e7d4808a4f426e@gmx.com> <1dc3d93b-4cac-4319-a0fe-4bdeb32d61c5@www.fastmail.com> <5c7c39c3-ff9a-8273-ed0e-d61b49a04d3a@kolabnow.com> <60b0bdc8-8d10-42c6-96f1-ee498f8ccfb0@www.fastmail.com> From: Lucio De Re Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 14:42:28 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 2214f4e0-6a37-11ec-8e20-c4231aec0207 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UNTg4ODU5MTExNGE3Y2YzNC1NZGE2MjIyZWUwY2M4NDFiOTIzY2E5?= =?UTF-8?B?ZjBlPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Mda6222ee0cc841b923ca9f0e:1:T399wcapzHk2hAxb8G8WOfWvWievB-_VXDMMtU0mHhQ On 12/31/21, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote: > > so instead i learned to be a little bit picky about the hardware > avoiding having to write drivers for everything that doesn't work. > The Lenovo Thinkpad T68 I managed to lay my hands on wasn't that cheap and came with an Atheros based wi-fi card. So, yes one has to be picky. I think I can replace the card, but it won't come cheaply. SSD and memory are a hassle, too. I've had an HP Pavilion for long enough to wear the lettering on some popular keys away and only discovered recently that in fact it will run 9front out of the box. Legacy doesn't seem to support XHCI (USB) and I have no idea quite how that connects to both the ethernet and the wi-fi adapters, that's a research project by itself; unlike what I imagine drives Vic, I like to know that I can complete a task within a reasonable time and my poor knowledge means little does get accomplished around here. But I do enjoy the rare achievement when I get that right (my Plan 9 workstation uses freefonts through fontsrv, hardly perfect, but I can choose from a very broad range of fonts - not that I need to, mind you, it's just that I have yet to find a satisfactory font, Ubuntu comes close). 9atom can shut down all the hardware I boot it on, neither legacy nor 9front can do the same, again, on the hardware I own (and I have some old stuff lying around). I have little idea how to compare the three kernels as they have diverged rather significantly, based on the source code. I do wish I could propagate my preferences into a single Plan 9 kernel release, I find the divergence very frustrating. Full disclosure: I don't "run" 9atom on anything. I can see where 9front has the edge, by quite a margin, and I hesitate to suggest that it has veered off the Plan 9 tradition to accommodate the PC complexities, without quite addressing the real objectives of PC platforms: web browsing, office document handling and gaming. I don't believe that any descendant of Plan 9 can retain simplicity and fulfil those needs. When it comes to "research", though, specially slightly unfocussed personal satisfaction type of research, I find legacy - which I have known since early in the 1990s, I own a 2ed CD set - more true to its own philosophy. Like Hiro, I don't for one moment want to chastise 9front users, I can see why their aims are very different from my own. I am however entitled to pursue mine, with no need to draw insignificant comparisons that can so quickly devolve into pissing contests. Just my perspective. I'd like to hear how Vic sees this kind of cyber archeology. Or anyone else's views, for that matter. Lucio. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5888591114a7cf34-Mda622= 2ee0cc841b923ca9f0e Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription