From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob1.topicbox.com (tb-ob1.topicbox.com [64.147.108.173]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A45B24D3A for ; Fri, 10 May 2024 16:54:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070532B1FA for ; Fri, 10 May 2024 10:54:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bounce.mMa35bdb36e0ec374698abde17.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id 04B6E1826DC2; Fri, 10 May 2024 10:54:57 -0400 (EDT) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=Aebs2YeT header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-wr1-f45.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type:list-help:list-id:list-post :list-subscribe:reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t=1715352896; bh=E1d8N/kyN1vdhQSX 5WEMvlkpeW1jNLIDgTwbRr++n4Q=; b=lii1V4fOk23W102tKb2SwF6gqGEpKyQ5 X/1kDcuV/Jc4rBuT/aItUpVcAN+oY59Zd2LwjmimfdrEEvbKl/lZVtG99YydTEh0 2x4JNnYsjWPXZeaAUZTTwIw1SGBUiJs9povbVqLGs0s0eqyrANpXR6Y21CZErdtX FtN0DGIo5ZY= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1715352896; b=a3f8aqcXoXSlvgOmO0bXsTY5T4tx7TVnUSUk/IhczN1GPt8kmn 4VGvt8irK+Fj7m8asANtL5BT1RcFS1IXWFz4gQ7ilMDG/PnlaFDA5p/+jXKJdBxe y57o3lsplrXQO4YZQCFrhKSmW4lFGrx7adkKYAoa2u6aoAWP8I/Ef4YfU= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=Aebs2YeT header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-wr1-f45.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=Aebs2YeT header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.221.45 (mail-wr1-f45.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-wr1-f45.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=IlaoYIwm; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-wr1-f45.google.com policy.ptr=mail-wr1-f45.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=35 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h= mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject :to:content-type:list-help:list-id:list-post:list-subscribe :reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; t=1715352896; x=1715439296; bh=S5DdthfL7rcra1y8EuSnoUNkZwPR2hZG fCL20aXjJjE=; b=B38xSyA2VIuIckoQuuLBpT0P2oed9ueSU5Ccr4oWvBTVQQMQ +XtPcBCp7f+AjNo/VO/tJ5+irXO2MHtmQ3TU4V7cDqsFxtbRpfKji+G8gbcZuJnt zwWdngVve/e7tQHzONnL7+UwPquhZxuvqmtPV15qme/A5MEkqpQIIINQKzw= Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F6961826988 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 10 May 2024 10:54:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lucio.dere@gmail.com) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id BA74660AC93; Fri, 10 May 2024 10:54:44 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1715352884; b=gcXCS4DzLpvr2pqb2JvlBcckMre2sEulflgkT71V3dbM1i00rB dw6ywaRSGBnfrGKgWY0+4aegUcVr5aS0X4o+FPHqHc+IwmQBNC88CoZMxXz9CvWk //KIjc+tXdXCRYigjcXa8YZbHoa5sJwUJxI1Km1rGRT7EjgfZ5upmt7alst100OA cSn9At90SQEzOfLBBewZcpo2j0XIwVOXjEUvatUAUkqYxgbdarf4F3ExmkrZFUuO fd77kCX7PFpXrm8LoGHMVj8NIvD3TlTjA8PsBKKDtecDZLjwcHU5ZxKdka20USYR CD5uFo8C+lu7BLnpXfufkztfuRwW4OQfBGgQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type; s=arcseal; t=1715352884; bh=NYHb1aAdq1Br5mjeInCJjH4EdNHb3X87sT3UniWj9dQ=; b=VCyz6Z70zPFl jxKLiahAtFybDfyCscPFDvrVF8/1QHwx6Cxbt9WifLSPTfIfSXz1xlCvIdQEWFsq aXBqxy3gMCjYbFsIA6IgRbTDH29SL0Ij1Ewbaf2saUblB3q5VEwRsAWqwm8tfwY3 3zDueLymBsIZp2DqY7aQiaDv+U/MUTQwxj0p/XEccWZ+1rR6I8q2LKmGfpOVhhLx 19plMnORC1VkQ2T2pfEL2X6Rn4TTXFXMpI32M8v5daQh+78Qy7iYLu2mvTI4EzI7 Y0itk8ldkLsVtgQawXPYNXJcLZPJDr5tnt60aa2v8uQaByBaEx7p1AqryYAmagEB 5gDvReB24A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx0.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=Aebs2YeT header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.221.45 (mail-wr1-f45.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lucio.dere@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-wr1-f45.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=IlaoYIwm; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-wr1-f45.google.com policy.ptr=mail-wr1-f45.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=35 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrvdefkedgkedvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgfrhhlucfvnfffucdlfe ehmdenucfjughrpeggfhgjhfffkffuvfgtsegrtderredttdejnecuhfhrohhmpefnuhgt ihhoucffvgcutfgvuceolhhutghiohdruggvrhgvsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqeenucggtf frrghtthgvrhhnpefhhedtheffgedvfeduvdduhedvhfetfeehjeduvdehhfeghedugffg iedthfehffenucffohhmrghinhepthhophhitggsohigrdgtohhmnecukfhppedvtdelrd ekhedrvddvuddrgeehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgv thepvddtledrkeehrddvvddurdeghedphhgvlhhopehmrghilhdqfihruddqfheghedrgh hoohhglhgvrdgtohhmpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoehluhgtihhordguvghrvgesghhmrghi lhdrtghomheqpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedupdhrtghpthhtohepoeelfhgrnhhsseelfh grnhhsrdhnvghtqe X-ME-VSScore: 35 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'lucio.dere@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx0.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="lucio.dere@gmail.com"; helo=mail-wr1-f45.google.com; client-ip=209.85.221.45 Received: from mail-wr1-f45.google.com (mail-wr1-f45.google.com [209.85.221.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 10 May 2024 10:54:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lucio.dere@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-f45.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-34f52fc2191so1091819f8f.1 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Fri, 10 May 2024 07:54:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1715352882; x=1715957682; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=NYHb1aAdq1Br5mjeInCJjH4EdNHb3X87sT3UniWj9dQ=; b=IlaoYIwmfM+Ec9USLzVf1DI1W5+EkksHIROGm6d0WcTjlyqD0pMKt5/5eumFtduNYk v+QAYQQIovL9+IVxgsUxwNPPF+GO+iDZ05yyBI9Ka8t/8bZOXgLlDwSTa/xTmD68CLwy oiG5LXF3ySOWCvmiWNkNF4MMxzCluevVo/tPJAwjpeg2hqA/HgWfnPRNHIGUzuCbpEkC iKGvRmLXat51YEFRicLOJaFPMWu5bPsoZhoszZxol9gmwX4OIh1yGtNl03SRW+t4h0jB YBQws9ogbR7dC1uaMYAKkXqM5nYEhrOkFpuNbyJmDFDee7x8JWsil+aLjHZRQ43M0eK2 Jnlg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy48QEin/AlIFYP9hqIj0A3nuN+L1PfdRgACYIiE+ao4DXl17+l WEF7s6P9n+CN9OSOMNzSNOmCv1ijVL0mpJVUr2BUQ5bK+Mbuz0/UPLdQOMvy55JTV/sb/Mass/p wi044bl2dSB8eE5T2EKBhcr6o8LCdKA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEsA6R18cNj/eu7DL7I4tFUZnkj0cyD4IVW14Qj90DXIxajtCy/OfPZh/6HAh0fzQ1frpq0DvNuXxA189cCIZw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:12d0:b0:34d:a719:4e09 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3504a96866cmr2086000f8f.45.1715352881515; Fri, 10 May 2024 07:54:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <31BB1E7FB4EDB3600A876C5F1506E804@migadu.com> In-Reply-To: From: Lucio De Re Date: Fri, 10 May 2024 16:54:28 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front) To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0000000000002adaef06181ab7a5 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 3fc4b9e2-0edd-11ef-a12c-2250028c7b06 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UY2YxMjhmYTk1NWI4YWFmYy1NYTM1YmRiMzZlMGVjMzc0Njk4YWJk?= =?UTF-8?B?ZTE3Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Ma35bdb36e0ec374698abde17:1:6xMlEnCaiG8lDBqviAgXHHC4ryIWarOhLAM_ZV4dxBY --0000000000002adaef06181ab7a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I guess we're on the same page, right up and including the fist fight(s). But I think we are all entitled to be treated more courteously in a public forum such as this, including not ascribing malice unless it is explicit. Being touchy has plagued this forum just about forever, it would be nicer if instead of calling out bad behaviour, it got the benefit of the doubt. I accept that I was as guilty of that presumption as much as anyone who posted after me. Lucio. On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 3:39=E2=80=AFPM wrote: > > > > What I notice - correct me if I am mistaken - is that any comparison > between 9front and 9legacy seems to needle a few members (very few, there > are many names from that community that have not participated, specifical= ly > the ones I know hand have long respectes, ask them) of the 9front communi= ty > that seem to take offence unless 9front is painted in a better light. I > guess that's permissible, but please mind your manners if you choose to go > that route, this is 9fans and 9front I believe has its own discussion > groups. >=20 > I offer you the perspective that this happens by rule when obviously wrong > or ridicolous claims or demands about / of 9front are made. > This is seen to further degrade the already quite degraded perspective > it has within parts of the 9fans community. >=20 > I don't think it is unreasonable for people who have invested a lot of > effort > into 9front and believe it to be something worthwhile to feel the urgency > to > defend it, or at the very least talk about it. >=20 > I do think a bit more courtesy or less bad faith assumptions could > be prescribed to certain individuals, and not only on the 9front side. >=20 > Anyway, I propose such issues are best solved by a fist fight, therefore > acknowledging the legacy of dispute resolution methods of our ancestors a= nd > fostering a more resilient and vibrant community that thrives on both > change > and tradition. --=20 Lucio De Re 2 Piet Retief St Kestell (Eastern Free State) 9860 South Africa Ph.: +27 58 653 1433 Cell: +27 83 251 5824 ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tcf128fa955b8aafc-Ma35bd= b36e0ec374698abde17 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --0000000000002adaef06181ab7a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I guess we're on the same page, right up a= nd including the fist fight(s). But I think we are all entitled to be treat= ed more courteously in a public forum such as this, including not ascribing= malice unless it is explicit. Being touchy has plagued this forum just abo= ut forever, it would be nicer if instead of calling out bad behaviour, it g= ot the benefit of the doubt. I accept that I was as guilty of that presumpt= ion as much as anyone who posted after me.

Lucio. = ;

On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 3:39 PM <kvik@a-b.xyz> wrote:
>
> What I notice - correct me if I am mistaken - is that any comparison b= etween 9front and 9legacy seems to needle a few members (very few, there ar= e many names from that community that have not participated, specifically t= he ones I know hand have long respectes, ask them) of the 9front community = that seem to take offence unless 9front is painted in a better light. I gue= ss that's permissible, but please mind your manners if you choose to go= that route, this is 9fans and 9front I believe has its own discussion grou= ps.
>

I offer you the perspective that this happens by rule when obviously wrong<= br /> or ridicolous claims or demands about / of 9front are made.
This is seen to further degrade the already quite degraded perspective
it has within parts of the 9fans community.

I don't think it is unreasonable for people who have invested a lot of = effort
into 9front and believe it to be something worthwhile to feel the urgency t= o
defend it, or at the very least talk about it.

I do think a bit more courtesy or less bad faith assumptions could
be prescribed to certain individuals, and not only on the 9front side.

Anyway, I propose such issues are best solved by a fist fight, therefore acknowledging the legacy of dispute resolution methods of our ancestors and=
fostering a more resilient and vibrant community that thrives on both chang= e
and tradition.

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https:= //9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tcf128fa955b8aafc-Mb5d3c0ebed77a8c9231bc7= 57
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/gro= ups/9fans/subscription


--
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief St
= Kestell (Eastern Free State)
9860 South Africa

Ph.: +27 58 = 653 1433
Cell: +27 83 251 5824
= --0000000000002adaef06181ab7a5--