From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <96D6CED6-EF41-4D65-8E96-DBA9D6724718@corpus-callosum.com> References: <9bef3191d2c415d1031b0d3dc02aebfb@proxima.alt.za> <20140522001334.DC674B82A@mail.bitblocks.com> <96D6CED6-EF41-4D65-8E96-DBA9D6724718@corpus-callosum.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 22:23:01 -0700 Message-ID: From: Skip Tavakkolian To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b86d78281f81f04f9f64e68 Subject: Re: [9fans] CMS/MMS (VCS/SCM/DSCM) [was: syscall 53] Topicbox-Message-UUID: eb941386-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --047d7b86d78281f81f04f9f64e68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i was thinking more in terms of having a git client (fs) on plan9 and using any number of public git servers. i'm looking at hgfs now; perhaps it already does all that's needed. On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Jeff Sickel wrote= : > > On May 21, 2014, at 7:13 PM, Bakul Shah wrote: > > > On Wed, 21 May 2014 09:56:26 PDT Skip Tavakkolian < > skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> i like git. as it is a kind of archival file system, one should be > able to > >> build a plan9 file system interface for it. > > > > Have you looked at porting git to plan9? 178K lines of *.[ch]. > > 20K lines of shell scripts (+ 100K+ lines of test scripts). > > Also python and perl scripts. > > As we=E2=80=99ve managed to migrate towards the topic of version control > systems, I have to add: I don=E2=80=99t like git. Maybe it=E2=80=99s bec= ause > I=E2=80=99ve used darcs and hg so much more, or maybe it=E2=80=99s just t= hat I > don=E2=80=99t like the way git is used in many situations. But mostly > I think it=E2=80=99s because I=E2=80=99ve found that many of the github p= rojects > lose sight of what I think is the more important portion of > the source history: the history and development process itself. > > At the base level I find that sources and sourcesdump are much > more accessible than many of the DSCMs (e.g., darcs, git, hg) > out there. Yes it=E2=80=99s great to use hg to snapshot state and > allow easy migration across various systems, but it still > clutters the model. > > One of the advantages of having a real archival store, like > Venti, is that it changes the conceptual level of how you deal > with metadata about a project. When the default is everything > is saved and you can manipulate the namespace to represent > various portions of the history then you don=E2=80=99t get caught > up in all the branching, rebasing, queues, merges, and other > general contortions that would make us happy to warp back in > time to an early copy of Dr. Dobb=E2=80=99s Journal of Computer > Calisthenics & Orthodontia when the future looked bright and > we really could do anything with 8 bits. Sure working with > an automatic snapshot system can be a headache at times, but > it=E2=80=99s one of those that easily passes, not like sitting down for > a [git] root canal because your tooth has been rotting to the > core while you worry about the configuration for the hottest > continuous integration system with a butler name that shows we > really didn=E2=80=99t learn anything about the 18th or 19th century > transitions to the modern age... > > Back on topic: be careful of the dependencies required to > get a system bootstrapped. The FreeBSD community took BIND > out of the default system and re-wrote a new basic resolver > because the BIND 10+ versions would require packaging Python > into the core distribution. There=E2=80=99s no reason for > bringing in more than is necessary to build, and putting a > dependency on Python would significantly increase the build > time and total lines of code to maintain just to have hg. > Darcs is in the same boat in that you=E2=80=99d have to keep a version > of Haskell in the system. Git is the closest as it=E2=80=99s just C, > sort of: it=E2=80=99s a whole lot of code. But why would you want to > bring in =E2=80=9C178K lines of *.[ch], 20K lines of shell scripts, 100K+ > lines of test scripts=E2=80=9D and have to lug in the massive payload > of Python and Perl just to make it functional? > > With a payload that large, it would take all the booster > rockets [money] on the planet to get it into orbit. And it > still might break apart, fall back to Earth, and kill us in the > process. > > At the end of the day, it=E2=80=99s the communication with people that=E2= =80=99s > the largest benefit. Let=E2=80=99s continue building systems based on th= e > ideas that drew us all to Plan 9 in the first place. > > > > --047d7b86d78281f81f04f9f64e68 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
i was thinking more in terms of having a git client (fs) o= n plan9 and using any number of public git servers. i'm looking at hgfs= now; perhaps it already does all that's needed.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Jeff Si= ckel <jas@corpus-callosum.com> wrote:

On May 21, 2014, at 7:13 PM, Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 21 May 2014 09:56:26 PDT Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> i like git. =C2=A0as it is a kind of archival file system, one sho= uld be able to
>> build a plan9 file system interface for it.
>
> Have you looked at porting git to plan9? 178K lines of *.[ch].
> 20K lines of shell scripts (+ 100K+ lines of test scripts).
> Also python and perl scripts.

As we=E2=80=99ve managed to migrate towards the topic of version control systems, I have to add: I don=E2=80=99t like git. =C2=A0Maybe it=E2=80=99s = because
I=E2=80=99ve used darcs and hg so much more, or maybe it=E2=80=99s just tha= t I
don=E2=80=99t like the way git is used in many situations. =C2=A0But mostly=
I think it=E2=80=99s because I=E2=80=99ve found that many of the github pro= jects
lose sight of what I think is the more important portion of
the source history: the history and development process itself.

At the base level I find that sources and sourcesdump are much
more accessible than many of the DSCMs (e.g., darcs, git, hg)
out there. =C2=A0Yes it=E2=80=99s great to use hg to snapshot state and
allow easy migration across various systems, but it still
clutters the model.

One of the advantages of having a real archival store, like
Venti, is that it changes the conceptual level of how you deal
with metadata about a project. =C2=A0When the default is everything
is saved and you can manipulate the namespace to represent
various portions of the history then you don=E2=80=99t get caught
up in all the branching, rebasing, queues, merges, and other
general contortions that would make us happy to warp back in
time to an early copy of Dr. Dobb=E2=80=99s Journal of Computer
Calisthenics & Orthodontia when the future looked bright and
we really could do anything with 8 bits. =C2=A0Sure working with
an automatic snapshot system can be a headache at times, but
it=E2=80=99s one of those that easily passes, not like sitting down for
a [git] root canal because your tooth has been rotting to the
core while you worry about the configuration for the hottest
continuous integration system with a butler name that shows we
really didn=E2=80=99t learn anything about the 18th or 19th century
transitions to the modern age...

Back on topic: be careful of the dependencies required to
get a system bootstrapped. =C2=A0The FreeBSD community took BIND
out of the default system and re-wrote a new basic resolver
because the BIND 10+ versions would require packaging Python
into the core distribution. =C2=A0There=E2=80=99s no reason for
bringing in more than is necessary to build, and putting a
dependency on Python would significantly increase the build
time and total lines of code to maintain just to have hg.
Darcs is in the same boat in that you=E2=80=99d have to keep a version
of Haskell in the system. =C2=A0Git is the closest as it=E2=80=99s just C,<= br> sort of: it=E2=80=99s a whole lot of code. =C2=A0But why would you want to<= br> bring in =E2=80=9C178K lines of *.[ch], 20K lines of shell scripts, 100K+ lines of test scripts=E2=80=9D and have to lug in the massive payload
of Python and Perl just to make it functional?

With a payload that large, it would take all the booster
rockets [money] on the planet to get it into orbit. =C2=A0And it
still might break apart, fall back to Earth, and kill us in the
process.

At the end of the day, it=E2=80=99s the communication with people that=E2= =80=99s
the largest benefit. =C2=A0Let=E2=80=99s continue building systems based on= the
ideas that drew us all to Plan 9 in the first place.




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