From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <81111AFC-BFA1-4C66-8492-DDDFE25DDC9D@gmail.com> References: <7715F725-C18F-42C0-9169-A507F12BDD27@airmail.cc> <0D1DE354-BD92-4969-9AC7-F6ABA745EA95@yingmi.cn> <81111AFC-BFA1-4C66-8492-DDDFE25DDC9D@gmail.com> From: dexen deVries Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 11:53:52 +0200 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000960661056f23e439" Subject: Re: [9fans] What are you using Plan 9 for? Topicbox-Message-UUID: d81af0e4-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --000000000000960661056f23e439 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i'm using plan9port (thanks, rsc) on linux for some 8 years now, for all coding - mostly low-brow web dev primarily Acme as IDE, Rc and awk for scripting the necessary tooling back when i was stuck at a corpo and had to use Windows on workstation, i installed p9p on one of build servers and ran Acme over LAN, through Xming there was no noticeable latency; it felt snappier than the corpo blessed IDE on windows my typical setup is: slackware linux, p9p, Acme maximized on the right screen. a few years ago i've coded a minimalist IRC client for Acme, was surprisingly comfy, but never followed it up another small use case was simplistic HTTP server for game map files coded in Rc; just enough to handle HTTP GET with Range header. was maybe 50 lines of shell. On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Rui Carmo wrote: > I=E2=80=99m late to the thread, but this seems like a good point to step = in. > > I=E2=80=99m using plan9 on a quad-core Raspberry Pi as a sort of universa= l > terminal to manage some of my home machines, and recently deleted the > 9front VM I had on my home KVM server because even though the programming > model and Go support were nice, most of my day-to-day work is on cloud > solutions and there was no easy way to make those co-exist with Plan9 usa= ge. > > There were a few discussions in this thread around dev stacks, browsers, > etc., and my $0.02 on that is that I could probably work in Plan9 on a > daily basis _if_ it had a usable (i.e., all the warts including JavaScrip= t > and fonts) web browser, but that the lack of alignment (intended or > otherwise) with Linux tools and app stacks (SSH, Node, Python, Java) woul= d > make it very painful. > > Running a remote browser (which is what I do often in that Pi) sort of > works, but you never get the full benefits you=E2=80=99d get with a nativ= e process. > And lack of access to modern app stacks renders the platform unattractive > for mainstream development work. > > But what killed it for me was the need for chording (mouse or keys). Usin= g > a modern trackpad on a MacBook or Surface device is a quantum leap beyond > using a mouse for general use, and the lack of a modernised Rio with enou= gh > thoughtful design to overcome the differences in philosophy is the first > barrier to continued usage. > > Acme is something I miss on occasion, but modern GUI editors compensate i= n > other ways (at the expense of resource usage, etc., but with a massive > boost in productivity for me). Also, I=E2=80=99m typing this on an iMac 5= K with > nearly unmatched font rendering and legibility (the only thing that comes > close is the Surface Pro alongside it). Visuals matter a great deal. > > There is an unmatchable degree of purity in Plan9, but (even though the > diehards will stick their ground and claim it=E2=80=99s perfect to the ex= clusion of > other modern comforts) to coexist successfully it has to provide more > affordances. > > Kind Regards, > > R. > > > On 14 Jun 2018, at 04:53, =E5=88=98=E5=AE=87=E5=AE=9D wrote: > > > > Compared to "not for you", "don't care", "intend to not be successful"= , > I like more the topic of cat-v irc channel on freenode set by aiju: "fun > fact: you can use multiple operating systems at the same time". > > > > Certainly Plan 9 can't replace Linux/macOS/BSD/Windows, I'm still > curious its upper bound for a sensible daily usage, and the best practic= e > from you happy experienced Plan 9 users. > > > > I checked mail headers in this mailing list, seems all use Apple Mail, > iPhone Mail, WebMail with AJAX, Gmail(a lot), ProtonMail, these emails > went through Postfix and Exim servers, probably on Linux. > > > > In great harmony, we use kinds of operating system and kinds of softwar= e > on them. > > > > Regards, > > Yubao Liu > > > >> On Jun 14, 2018, at 10:53 AM, N. S. Montanaro wrote: > >> > >> I think a lot of people discover Plan 9 and want it to be something it > isn=E2=80=99t, rather than stumble upon it out of necessity. As the FQA s= ays, =E2=80=9CPlan > 9 is not for you." > > > > > --000000000000960661056f23e439 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
i'm using plan9port (thanks, rsc)=C2=A0on linux for so= me 8 years now, for all coding - mostly low-brow web dev
primarily Acme= as IDE, Rc and awk for scripting the necessary tooling

<= /div>
back when i was stuck at a corpo and had to use Windows on workst= ation, i installed
p9p on one of build servers and ran Acme over = LAN, through Xming
there was no noticeable latency; it felt snapp= ier than the corpo blessed IDE on windows

my typic= al setup is: slackware linux, p9p, Acme maximized on the right screen.

a few years ago i've coded a minimalist IRC client= for Acme, was surprisingly comfy, but never followed it up
anoth= er small use case was simplistic HTTP server for game map files coded in Rc= ;
just enough to handle HTTP GET with Range header. was maybe 50 = lines of shell.


On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Rui Carmo <ru= i.carmo@gmail.com> wrote:
I= =E2=80=99m late to the thread, but this seems like a good point to step in.=

I=E2=80=99m using plan9 on a quad-core Raspberry Pi as a sort of universal = terminal to manage some of my home machines, and recently deleted the 9fron= t VM I had on my home KVM server because even though the programming model = and Go support were nice, most of my day-to-day work is on cloud solutions = and there was no easy way to make those co-exist with Plan9 usage.

There were a few discussions in this thread around dev stacks, browsers, et= c., and my $0.02 on that is that I could probably work in Plan9 on a daily = basis _if_ it had a usable (i.e., all the warts including JavaScript and fo= nts) web browser, but that the lack of alignment (intended or otherwise) wi= th Linux tools and app stacks (SSH, Node, Python, Java) would make it very = painful.

Running a remote browser (which is what I do often in that Pi) sort of work= s, but you never get the full benefits you=E2=80=99d get with a native proc= ess. And lack of access to modern app stacks renders the platform unattract= ive for mainstream development work.

But what killed it for me was the need for chording (mouse or keys). Using = a modern trackpad on a MacBook or Surface device is a quantum leap beyond u= sing a mouse for general use, and the lack of a modernised Rio with enough = thoughtful design to overcome the differences in philosophy is the first ba= rrier to continued usage.

Acme is something I miss on occasion, but modern GUI editors compensate in = other ways (at the expense of resource usage, etc., but with a massive boos= t in productivity for me). Also, I=E2=80=99m typing this on an iMac 5K with= nearly unmatched font rendering and legibility (the only thing that comes = close is the Surface Pro alongside it). Visuals matter a great deal.

There is an unmatchable degree of purity in Plan9, but (even though the die= hards will stick their ground and claim it=E2=80=99s perfect to the exclusi= on of other modern comforts) to coexist successfully it has to provide more= affordances.

Kind Regards,

R.

> On 14 Jun 2018, at 04:53, =E5=88=98=E5=AE=87=E5=AE=9D <liuyubao@yingmi.cn> wrote:
>
> Compared to "not for you", "don't care",=C2=A0= "intend to not be successful", I like more the topic of cat-v ir= c channel on freenode set by aiju:=C2=A0 "fun fact: you can use multip= le operating systems at the same time".
>
> Certainly Plan 9 can't replace Linux/macOS/BSD/Windows, I'm st= ill curious its upper bound for a sensible daily usage,=C2=A0 and the best = practice from you happy experienced Plan 9 users.
>
> I checked mail headers in this mailing list, seems all use Apple Mail,= iPhone Mail, WebMail with AJAX, Gmail(a lot), ProtonMail,=C2=A0 these emai= ls went through Postfix and Exim servers, probably on Linux.
>
> In great harmony, we use kinds of operating system and kinds of softwa= re on them.
>
> Regards,
> Yubao Liu
>
>> On Jun 14, 2018, at 10:53 AM, N. S. Montanaro <nsm@airmail.cc&g= t; wrote:
>>
>> I think a lot of people discover Plan 9 and want it to be somethin= g it isn=E2=80=99t, rather than stumble upon it out of necessity. As the FQ= A says, =E2=80=9CPlan 9 is not for you."
>



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