From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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From: Aharon Robbins <arnold@skeeve.com>
Message-id: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:49:41 +0200
To: 9fans@9fans.net
User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 6/20/10
Subject: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bee2a402-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

This says a lot, rather nicely:

	http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html

Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it's the same
story all over again.

(Or maybe the story never ended. Either way, the users are the ones who lost
out.)

Arnold



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200
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From: Christoph Lohmann <20h@r-36.net>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-Id: <20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
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Greetings comrades.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200 Aharon Robbins <arnold@skeeve.com> wro=
te:
> This says a lot, rather nicely:
>=20
> 	http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html
>=20
> Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it's the same
> story all over again.

The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?


Sincerely,

Christoph Lohmann




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
From: Rodrigo Miranda <rodrigo.miranda@acm.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:19:21 -0300
Message-ID: <CAEq5XA+MPy=OhEC7O6ko455yQfZ8F_YBU2dZR4oJd2GQw+8rBw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444032e9d14ad04cc46fdef
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
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--f46d0444032e9d14ad04cc46fdef
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Cel. Mustard
With the candlestick
In the Dining Room


Rodrigo Miranda

``The zen master hit me in the head.

I told him:

  "If you keep hitting me in the head,

     I won't be able to learn a thing!"

He hit me again.

  In

      the

             head.=B4=B4 (Rodrigo Miranda)


On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Christoph Lohmann <20h@r-36.net> wrote:

> Greetings comrades.
>
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200 Aharon Robbins <arnold@skeeve.com>
> wrote:
> > This says a lot, rather nicely:
> >
> >       http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html
> >
> > Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it's the same
> > story all over again.
>
> The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Christoph Lohmann
>
>
>

--f46d0444032e9d14ad04cc46fdef
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Cel. Mustard<div>With the candlestick</div><div>In the Dining Room</div><di=
v><br></div><div><br clear=3D"all">Rodrigo Miranda<br><br>``The zen master =
hit me in the head.<br><br>I told him:<br><br>=A0 &quot;If you keep hitting=
 me in the head,<br>

<br>=A0 =A0=A0 I won&#39;t be able to learn a thing!&quot;<br><br>He hit me=
 again.<br><br>=A0 In <br><br>=A0 =A0 =A0 the<br><br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0=A0 head.=B4=B4 (Rodrigo Miranda)<br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Christo=
ph Lohmann <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:20h@r-36.net" target=3D"=
_blank">20h@r-36.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">

Greetings comrades.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200 Aharon Robbins &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:arn=
old@skeeve.com">arnold@skeeve.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; This says a lot, rather nicely:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 <a href=3D"http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.htm=
l" target=3D"_blank">http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html</a><b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it&#39;s the sa=
me<br>
&gt; story all over again.<br>
<br>
</div>The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?<br>
<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Christoph Lohmann<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--f46d0444032e9d14ad04cc46fdef--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:22:15 -0400
From: Kurt H Maier <khm-9@intma.in>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-ID: <20121017202215.GA9803@intma.in>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In-Reply-To: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf0385fa-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 09:49:41PM +0200, Aharon Robbins wrote:
> This says a lot, rather nicely:
>
> 	http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html
>

The guy whose entire career has been spent cloning DOS and Windows
software claims that Linux sucks because it's not enough like Windows?

huge surprise



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 20:29:34 -0400
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Message-ID: <108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
In-Reply-To: <20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
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	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
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> The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?

poor special effects?

- erik



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: arnold@skeeve.com
Message-Id: <201210180731.q9I7VFiR011300@freefriends.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:31:15 -0600
To: 9fans@9fans.net
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
In-Reply-To: <108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08
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Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf328ee0-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

> > The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
>
> poor special effects?
>
> - erik

The Plan 9 desktop was never aimed at the consumer market, which is
what Miguel was bemoaning for Linux.  Plan 9 was never even aimed the
broader Unix / software developer market; it was designed mainly to
please the developers (which is fine, they did great things, but let's
be honest here).

The broader point is that the Unix / Linux / Open Source "communities"
seem to be plagued with a never-ending desire to reinvent the same wheels
over again instead of moving forward. This may be part of what Rob had
in mind in his 2000 paper about systems reearch being dead.

And it may just be part of the human condition.  :-(

Arnold



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:36:08 +0200
From: tlaronde@polynum.com
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-ID: <20121018083608.GA682@polynum.com>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf43293a-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:05:08PM +0200, Christoph Lohmann wrote:
>
> The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
>

Having forgotten that a market for a sensible solution is a niche
market. Only stupidity and lack of reflexion can replace the "what do
I need" with "i don't know what I need ; so what everybody has is
obviously what I do need", hence a mass market (the Panurge's sheeps).

--
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                      http://www.kergis.com/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:03:17 +0000
From: Balwinder S Dheeman <bsd.SANSPAM@anu.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <j3s4l9xupk.ln2@news.homelinux.net>
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References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>,
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf488876-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On 10/18/2012 01:35 AM, Christoph Lohmann wrote:
> Greetings comrades.
>
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200 Aharon Robbins <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
>> This says a lot, rather nicely:
>>
>> 	http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html
>>
>> Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it's the same
>> story all over again.
>
> The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?

1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit
2) Lack of Object Oriented GUI configuration tools
3) Lack of a decent web0browser
4) Lack of a decent communication/messaging client
5) Lack of an Office Applications suite
...
...
...
z) Last, but not the least, hate towards C++ and love for the Go

--
Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman
(http://werc.homelinux.net/contact/)



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <507FF1C9.4000205@lynxline.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:10:49 +0200
From: Oleksandr Iakovliev <yshurik@lynxline.com>
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	rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1
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To: 9fans@9fans.net
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>,
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<j3s4l9xupk.ln2@news.homelinux.net>
In-Reply-To: <j3s4l9xupk.ln2@news.homelinux.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="------------020505080302040300060409"
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf4cb4d2-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------020505080302040300060409
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 2012-10-18 11:03 , Balwinder S Dheeman wrote:
> On 10/18/2012 01:35 AM, Christoph Lohmann wrote:
>> Greetings comrades.
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200 Aharon Robbins <arnold@skeeve.com>
>> wrote:
>>> This says a lot, rather nicely:
>>>
>>>     http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html
>>>
>>> Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it's the same
>>> story all over again.
>>
>> The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
>
> 1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit
> 2) Lack of Object Oriented GUI configuration tools
> 3) Lack of a decent web0browser
> 4) Lack of a decent communication/messaging client
> 5) Lack of an Office Applications suite
> ...
> ...
> ...
> z) Last, but not the least, hate towards C++ and love for the Go
>

But that's the list of benefits, isn't? :)

--------------020505080302040300060409
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8" http-equiv=3D"Content-Ty=
pe">
  </head>
  <body text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 2012-10-18 11:03 , Balwinder S
      Dheeman wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite=3D"mid:j3s4l9xupk.ln2@news.homelinux.net" type=3D"ci=
te">On
      10/18/2012 01:35 AM, Christoph Lohmann wrote:
      <br>
      <blockquote type=3D"cite">Greetings comrades.
        <br>
        <br>
        On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200 Aharon Robbins
        <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:arnold@skeeve.c=
om">&lt;arnold@skeeve.com&gt;</a> wrote:
        <br>
        <blockquote type=3D"cite">This says a lot, rather nicely:
          <br>
          <br>
          =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=
=3D"http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html">http://tirania.org/=
blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html</a>
          <br>
          <br>
          Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it's
          the same
          <br>
          story all over again.
          <br>
        </blockquote>
        <br>
        The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit
      <br>
      2) Lack of Object Oriented GUI configuration tools
      <br>
      3) Lack of a decent web0browser
      <br>
      4) Lack of a decent communication/messaging client
      <br>
      5) Lack of an Office Applications suite
      <br>
      ...
      <br>
      ...
      <br>
      ...
      <br>
      z) Last, but not the least, hate towards C++ and love for the Go
      <br>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <font face=3D"Menlo">But that's the list of benefits, isn't? :)</font=
><br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------020505080302040300060409--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<j3s4l9xupk.ln2@news.homelinux.net> <507FF1C9.4000205@lynxline.com>
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From: Nemo <nemo@lsub.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:25:48 +0200
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf601a72-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025


--Apple-Mail-08255719-CCE0-48F5-BF16-D7F6FC27C884
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=us-ascii

that's what I thought. :)

On Oct 18, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Oleksandr Iakovliev <yshurik@lynxline.com> wrot=
e:

> On 2012-10-18 11:03 , Balwinder S Dheeman wrote:
>> On 10/18/2012 01:35 AM, Christoph Lohmann wrote:=20
>>> Greetings comrades.=20
>>>=20
>>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200 Aharon Robbins <arnold@skeeve.com> wr=
ote:=20
>>>> This says a lot, rather nicely:=20
>>>>=20
>>>>     http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it's the same=20=

>>>> story all over again.=20
>>>=20
>>> The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?=20
>>=20
>> 1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit=20
>> 2) Lack of Object Oriented GUI configuration tools=20
>> 3) Lack of a decent web0browser=20
>> 4) Lack of a decent communication/messaging client=20
>> 5) Lack of an Office Applications suite=20
>> ...=20
>> ...=20
>> ...=20
>> z) Last, but not the least, hate towards C++ and love for the Go=20
>>=20
>=20
> But that's the list of benefits, isn't? :)

--Apple-Mail-08255719-CCE0-48F5-BF16-D7F6FC27C884
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>that's what I thought. :)<br><br>On Oct 18, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Oleksandr Iakovliev &lt;<a href="mailto:yshurik@lynxline.com">yshurik@lynxline.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>


    <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">


    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2012-10-18 11:03 , Balwinder S
      Dheeman wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:j3s4l9xupk.ln2@news.homelinux.net" type="cite">On
      10/18/2012 01:35 AM, Christoph Lohmann wrote:
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite">Greetings comrades.
        <br>
        <br>
        On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200 Aharon Robbins
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arnold@skeeve.com">&lt;arnold@skeeve.com&gt;</a> wrote:
        <br>
        <blockquote type="cite">This says a lot, rather nicely:
          <br>
          <br>
          &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html">http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html</a>
          <br>
          <br>
          Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it's
          the same
          <br>
          story all over again.
          <br>
        </blockquote>
        <br>
        The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit
      <br>
      2) Lack of Object Oriented GUI configuration tools
      <br>
      3) Lack of a decent web0browser
      <br>
      4) Lack of a decent communication/messaging client
      <br>
      5) Lack of an Office Applications suite
      <br>
      ...
      <br>
      ...
      <br>
      ...
      <br>
      z) Last, but not the least, hate towards C++ and love for the Go
      <br>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <font face="Menlo">But that's the list of benefits, isn't? :)</font><br>



</div></blockquote></body></html>
--Apple-Mail-08255719-CCE0-48F5-BF16-D7F6FC27C884--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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From: Stephen Wiley <swwiley@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <j3s4l9xupk.ln2@news.homelinux.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:44:15 -0400
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <F0C8A9C6-002F-4989-A251-767DA2C0CAA1@gmail.com>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>,
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<j3s4l9xupk.ln2@news.homelinux.net>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf64ba78-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025


On Oct 18, 2012, at 5:03 AM, Balwinder S Dheeman wrote:

> On 10/18/2012 01:35 AM, Christoph Lohmann wrote:
>> Greetings comrades.
>>=20
>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 22:05:08 +0200 Aharon Robbins <arnold@skeeve.com> =
wrote:
>>> This says a lot, rather nicely:
>>>=20
>>> 	http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html
>>>=20
>>> Having lived through the Unix wars of the 80s and 90s, it's the same
>>> story all over again.
>>=20
>> The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
>=20
> 1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit
> 2) Lack of Object Oriented GUI configuration tools
> 3) Lack of a decent web0browser
> 4) Lack of a decent communication/messaging client
> 5) Lack of an Office Applications suite
> ...
> ...
> ...
> z) Last, but not the least, hate towards C++ and love for the Go
>=20
> --=20
> Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman
> (http://werc.homelinux.net/contact/)
>=20

Is this another one of those weird plan9 jokes?=



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:54:22 -0400
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Message-ID: <8ebc37060e76b6ffcb047cdb6f3c0d26@kw.quanstro.net>
In-Reply-To: <201210180731.q9I7VFiR011300@freefriends.org>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
	<201210180731.q9I7VFiR011300@freefriends.org>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf778d88-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>
> > > The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
> >
> > poor special effects?
> >
> > - erik
>
> The Plan 9 desktop was never aimed at the consumer market, which is
[...]

that was supposed to be a switcheroo, not a comment on plan 9 graphics
or the importance of graphics.

sorry.

- erik



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:16:14 +0000
From: Pavel Klinkovsky <pavel.klinkovsky@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68690d18-469a-4bed-ae98-398f6fa5b5ab@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>, >,
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf8a5558-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

Dne =C4=8Dtvrtek, 18. =C5=99=C3=ADjna 2012 14:23:03 UTC+2 Oleksandr Iakovli=
ev napsal(a):
>>       1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit
>>       ...
>     But that's the list of benefits, isn't? :)

I mostly agree except the browser.
I would appreciate a well working browser in the P9 too. ;)

Pavel



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android
In-Reply-To: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=UTF-8
From: yard-ape@telus.net
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 07:18:33 -0700
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-ID: <4d9455a9-85dd-4920-b527-320f54de9fc4@email.android.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf800d50-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

>	http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2012/Aug-29.html

If developmental stability was all it took to attract third party develop=
ers then why didn't FreeBSD "win the desktop" a decade ago? Or indeed Pla=
n 9 (I suppose this is reductio)?



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 07:20:47 -0700
From: Albert Skye <mistlail@yahoo.co.uk>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Message-ID: <20121018072047.35fd3762@nance>
In-Reply-To: <108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] new-topic: typographical interface
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf7bfcce-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

> > The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
>
> poor special effects?

it's just resting!
but maybe it should die

yes
no "modern GUI", &c.
(and I'm grateful for that! :)

but Plan 9 (and other software)
can be much more useful by exposition
within a *typographical interface*
i.e.,
an interface
informed by typographical imperative[1]
(to increase signal
decrease noise)
in
arranging streams
(of text/numbers/symbols/images
outputs and inputs)
using established patterns
of typographical technology
for
improving the interface/tools
between process and user

to make it
natural/immediate/effortless

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Typographic_Style



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:41:13 +0200
From: Julius Schmidt <aiju@phicode.de>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
In-Reply-To: <20121018072047.35fd3762@nance>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1210181740140.15752@localhost>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
	<20121018072047.35fd3762@nance>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LNX 1167 2008-08-23)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Subject: Re: [9fans] new-topic: typographical interface
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bfa5c464-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

the solution is
to just stop worrying and love
the bitmap font because there
are more important things
in life.
such as not inserting spurious
new lines
in mailing list posts.

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012, Albert Skye wrote:

> erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>
>>> The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
>>
>> poor special effects?
>
> it's just resting!
> but maybe it should die
>
> yes
> no "modern GUI", &c.
> (and I'm grateful for that! :)
>
> but Plan 9 (and other software)
> can be much more useful by exposition
> within a *typographical interface*
> i.e.,
> an interface
> informed by typographical imperative[1]
> (to increase signal
> decrease noise)
> in
> arranging streams
> (of text/numbers/symbols/images
> outputs and inputs)
> using established patterns
> of typographical technology
> for
> improving the interface/tools
> between process and user
>
> to make it
> natural/immediate/effortless
>
> [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Typographic_Style
>
>



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:42:20 -0400
From: Kurt H Maier <khm-9@intma.in>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-ID: <20121018154220.GA9201@intma.in>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
	<20121018072047.35fd3762@nance>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20121018072047.35fd3762@nance>
Subject: Re: [9fans] new-topic: typographical interface
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bf9f2df2-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 07:20:47AM -0700, Albert Skye wrote:
> erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>
> > > The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
> >
> > poor special effects?
>
> it's just resting!
> but maybe it should die
>
> yes
> no "modern GUI", &c.
> (and I'm grateful for that! :)
>
> but Plan 9 (and other software)
> can be much more useful by exposition
> within a *typographical interface*
> i.e.,
> an interface
> informed by typographical imperative[1]
> (to increase signal
> decrease noise)
> in
> arranging streams
> (of text/numbers/symbols/images
> outputs and inputs)
> using established patterns
> of typographical technology
> for
> improving the interface/tools
> between process and user
>
> to make it
> natural/immediate/effortless
>
> [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Typographic_Style
>

Who Ignore 4 Simultaneous

 Days Same Earth Typography.

Practicing  Evil  ONEness -

Upon Earth Of  Quadrants.

 Evil Adult Crime VS Youth.

  Supports Lie Of Integration.

  1 Educated Are Most Dumb.

  Not 1 Human Except Dead 1.

  Man Is Paired,  2 Half 4 Self.

  1 of God Is Only 1/4 Of God.






From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <68690d18-469a-4bed-ae98-398f6fa5b5ab@googlegroups.com>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<68690d18-469a-4bed-ae98-398f6fa5b5ab@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:50:36 +0100
Message-ID: <CAH+xwdAA7oSGm8ZBiv-YZf-oa3GEZ7snP3Fq-VuRJPOX-td+vw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Robert Raschke <rtrlists@googlemail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d044289f6bd8c5104cc582f7f
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bfb6d04c-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

--f46d044289f6bd8c5104cc582f7f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A "well working browser" is an OS these days. A bit of a dilemma that.  ;-)
On Oct 18, 2012 3:25 PM, "Pavel Klinkovsky" <pavel.klinkovsky@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dne =C4=8Dtvrtek, 18. =C5=99=C3=ADjna 2012 14:23:03 UTC+2 Oleksandr Iakov=
liev napsal(a):
> >>       1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit
> >>       ...
> >     But that's the list of benefits, isn't? :)
>
> I mostly agree except the browser.
> I would appreciate a well working browser in the P9 too. ;)
>
> Pavel
>
>

--f46d044289f6bd8c5104cc582f7f
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<p>A &quot;well working browser&quot; is an OS these days. A bit of a dilem=
ma that.=C2=A0 ;-)</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Oct 18, 2012 3:25 PM, &quot;Pavel Klinkovsky&=
quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pavel.klinkovsky@gmail.com">pavel.klinkovsky@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x">
Dne =C4=8Dtvrtek, 18. =C5=99=C3=ADjna 2012 14:23:03 UTC+2 Oleksandr Iakovli=
ev napsal(a):<br>
&gt;&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit=
<br>
&gt;&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ...<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 But that&#39;s the list of benefits, isn&#39;t? :)<br>
<br>
I mostly agree except the browser.<br>
I would appreciate a well working browser in the P9 too. ;)<br>
<br>
Pavel<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

--f46d044289f6bd8c5104cc582f7f--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:52:23 -0400
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Message-ID: <634878599f65177a8a9648f63bc3b9d9@brasstown.quanstro.net>
In-Reply-To: <CAH+xwdAA7oSGm8ZBiv-YZf-oa3GEZ7snP3Fq-VuRJPOX-td+vw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<68690d18-469a-4bed-ae98-398f6fa5b5ab@googlegroups.com>
	<CAH+xwdAA7oSGm8ZBiv-YZf-oa3GEZ7snP3Fq-VuRJPOX-td+vw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bfc4db06-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> A "well working browser" is an OS these days. A bit of a dilemma that.  ;-)

you overestimate how complicated an os needs to be.

- erik



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <508040C5.4070004@lynxline.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 19:47:49 +0200
From: Oleksandr Iakovliev <yshurik@lynxline.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7;
	rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: 9fans@9fans.net
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<68690d18-469a-4bed-ae98-398f6fa5b5ab@googlegroups.com>
	<CAH+xwdAA7oSGm8ZBiv-YZf-oa3GEZ7snP3Fq-VuRJPOX-td+vw@mail.gmail.com>
	<634878599f65177a8a9648f63bc3b9d9@brasstown.quanstro.net>
In-Reply-To: <634878599f65177a8a9648f63bc3b9d9@brasstown.quanstro.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="------------060102090306020501000205"
Subject: Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bfd99eba-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------060102090306020501000205
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 2012-10-18 18:52 , erik quanstrom wrote:
>> A "well working browser" is an OS these days. A bit of a dilemma that.  ;-)
> you overestimate how complicated an os needs to be.
>
> - erik
>

Browsers are on the dark side - they have cookies

--------------060102090306020501000205
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2012-10-18 18:52 , erik quanstrom
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:634878599f65177a8a9648f63bc3b9d9@brasstown.quanstro.net"
      type="cite">
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">A "well working browser" is an OS these days. A bit of a dilemma that.  ;-)
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
you overestimate how complicated an os needs to be.

- erik

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <font face="Menlo">Browsers are on the dark side - they have cookies</font><br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------060102090306020501000205--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20121018154220.GA9201@intma.in>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
	<20121018072047.35fd3762@nance> <20121018154220.GA9201@intma.in>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:37:57 -0400
Message-ID: <CAJiQxwMmBiu=EtsAW50Vg=-SV92nmhW9kPfUY_wvYYga01JMNw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Corey Thomasson <cthom.lists@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d042fddca31bc2204cc5a8649
Subject: Re: [9fans] new-topic: typographical interface
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bfe641ec-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

--f46d042fddca31bc2204cc5a8649
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Oct 18, 2012 11:44 AM, "Kurt H Maier" <khm-9@intma.in> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 07:20:47AM -0700, Albert Skye wrote:
> > erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
> > >
> > > poor special effects?
> >
> > it's just resting!
> > but maybe it should die
> >
> > yes
> > no "modern GUI", &c.
> > (and I'm grateful for that! :)
> >
> > but Plan 9 (and other software)
> > can be much more useful by exposition
> > within a *typographical interface*
> > i.e.,
> > an interface
> > informed by typographical imperative[1]
> > (to increase signal
> > decrease noise)
> > in
> > arranging streams
> > (of text/numbers/symbols/images
> > outputs and inputs)
> > using established patterns
> > of typographical technology
> > for
> > improving the interface/tools
> > between process and user
> >
> > to make it
> > natural/immediate/effortless
> >
> > [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Typographic_Style
> >
>
> Who Ignore 4 Simultaneous
>
>  Days Same Earth Typography.
>
> Practicing  Evil  ONEness -
>
> Upon Earth Of  Quadrants.
>
>  Evil Adult Crime VS Youth.
>
>   Supports Lie Of Integration.
>
>   1 Educated Are Most Dumb.
>
>   Not 1 Human Except Dead 1.
>
>   Man Is Paired,  2 Half 4 Self.
>
>   1 of God Is Only 1/4 Of God.
>
>
>
>

Everyday I'm slightly more convinced that you're a highly sophisticated
Markov chain.

--f46d042fddca31bc2204cc5a8649
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<p><br>
On Oct 18, 2012 11:44 AM, &quot;Kurt H Maier&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kh=
m-9@intma.in">khm-9@intma.in</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 07:20:47AM -0700, Albert Skye wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; erik quanstrom &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:quanstro@quanstro.net">quans=
tro@quanstro.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?=
<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; poor special effects?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; it&#39;s just resting!<br>
&gt; &gt; but maybe it should die<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; yes<br>
&gt; &gt; no &quot;modern GUI&quot;, &amp;c.<br>
&gt; &gt; (and I&#39;m grateful for that! :)<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; but Plan 9 (and other software)<br>
&gt; &gt; can be much more useful by exposition<br>
&gt; &gt; within a *typographical interface*<br>
&gt; &gt; i.e.,<br>
&gt; &gt; an interface<br>
&gt; &gt; informed by typographical imperative[1]<br>
&gt; &gt; (to increase signal<br>
&gt; &gt; decrease noise)<br>
&gt; &gt; in<br>
&gt; &gt; arranging streams<br>
&gt; &gt; (of text/numbers/symbols/images<br>
&gt; &gt; outputs and inputs)<br>
&gt; &gt; using established patterns<br>
&gt; &gt; of typographical technology<br>
&gt; &gt; for<br>
&gt; &gt; improving the interface/tools<br>
&gt; &gt; between process and user<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; to make it<br>
&gt; &gt; natural/immediate/effortless<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [1]: <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Typo=
graphic_Style">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Typographic_Sty=
le</a><br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Who Ignore 4 Simultaneous<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0Days Same Earth Typography.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Practicing =A0Evil =A0ONEness -<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Upon Earth Of =A0Quadrants.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0Evil Adult Crime VS Youth.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0 Supports Lie Of Integration.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0 1 Educated Are Most Dumb.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0 Not 1 Human Except Dead 1.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0 Man Is Paired, =A02 Half 4 Self.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0 1 of God Is Only 1/4 Of God.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;</p>
<p>Everyday I&#39;m slightly more convinced that you&#39;re a highly sophis=
ticated Markov chain.<br>
</p>

--f46d042fddca31bc2204cc5a8649--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:40:55 -0400
From: Kurt H Maier <khm-9@intma.in>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-ID: <20121018194055.GA45462@intma.in>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
	<20121018072047.35fd3762@nance> <20121018154220.GA9201@intma.in>
	<CAJiQxwMmBiu=EtsAW50Vg=-SV92nmhW9kPfUY_wvYYga01JMNw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAJiQxwMmBiu=EtsAW50Vg=-SV92nmhW9kPfUY_wvYYga01JMNw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] new-topic: typographical interface
Topicbox-Message-UUID: bfed9fb4-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 03:37:57PM -0400, Corey Thomasson wrote:
>
> Everyday I'm slightly more convinced that you're a highly sophisticated
> Markov chain.

How do you feel about you're a highly sophisticated
Markov chain?




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:19:16 -0700
From: Albert Skye <mistlail@yahoo.co.uk>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Message-ID: <20121024001916.70bdf620@nance>
In-Reply-To: <20121018072047.35fd3762@nance>
References: <201210171949.q9HJnfon003990@skeeve.com>
	<20121017200938.198DB12BB12E@r-36.net>
	<108cc49f0db0ffc6d5f6fa4c40a443ac@kw.quanstro.net>
	<20121018072047.35fd3762@nance>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] new-topic: typographical interface
Topicbox-Message-UUID: c7f0a35a-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

I welcome anyone interested in discussing
the nature of typographic interface
to contact me off-list

I simply see untapped potential
and I want to bring it into useful form
(by communication/cooperation more than solitude)

askye