From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Marshall Conover Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 15:19:51 +0000 Message-ID: To: 9fans@9fans.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11473ae0d90013053cb59c60 Subject: [9fans] Questions on the browser as a platform if plan 9 had gained marketshare Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9ef1ebb0-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --001a11473ae0d90013053cb59c60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, For context, I am a plan 9 novice - I've played around just enough to add jury-rigged background-image support for rio (for better or worse), implore sl - if I remember correctly - to add the ^B option to 9front's rc that brings the cursor to the current input place, and, for what it's worth, create this: http://i.imgur.com/6iiF3zi.png. I've been wondering about how the web - specifically, the browser as a platform for applications - would have been different had plan 9 become a significant influence in operating systems in the early 90s. I've come to the point where I thought a discussion here might be enjoyable and enlightening, hopefully even to the point of dispelling the playful ribbing that this mailing list may or may not be dead. If this conversation has already occurred, my apologies. The improvement I think plan 9 could have brought to the early web is in allowing the browser to have remained, as I understand it to have been, a medium for mark-up text and images, and have the OS act as the platform for web applications. The process I'm thinking of would be, with the example of a banking application: the user opens the bank's web page in a plan 9 browser; the user clicks a 'login' link; that link is sent to the plumber, which detects it as a web application link and directs it to a service which: - sandboxes it, perhaps by using a 'web' user or just modifying the namespace to show the process a limited set of information; - sets the namespace to prefer any libraries that are on the remote bank machine, allowing the application to always run with the environment the application developers intended; - sets the namespace to include any files the application needs from the remote sandbox, e.g. a directory with the user's banking files. As a result of this, it seems that much of the hooplah around flash, webGL, javascript, etc. could have been avoided, and that web applications from yesteryear could still run today (for better or worse), since they could control their environment. Web programming would have also have started off with far greater ability, instead of having being limited by the abilities of its browser platform and waiting years for even simple things to be standardized. Web games, video-streaming applications, etc. on par with local applications could have been launched as soon as the infrastructure could support them, as the providers could just program the application to do whatever the OS allowed. It also seems it would avoid cookies and other privacy issues, since applications would be sandboxed to only know about the things they have available to them. That said, having had discussions with friends in web development, they have expressed concerns about ease-of-use and their initial interest in the field - if I understand correctly, they feel that html's ease of modification and immediate gratification was beneficial to getting them into programming, which - while my understanding of this community is that here it's not a highly valued thing - is, I think an important point to address. They are application developers, and the web had aspects system languages did not which attracted them. Again, if these thoughts are obvious, my apologies, and if it's deeply flawed, my apologies - but I'd be interested in hearing why. Thanks for your time, Mars --001a11473ae0d90013053cb59c60 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi = all,

=C2=A0=C2=A0 For context, I am a plan 9 novice - I've= played around just enough to add jury-rigged background-image support for = rio (for better or worse), implore sl - if I remember correctly - to add th= e ^B option to 9front's rc that brings the cursor to the current input = place, and, for what it's worth, create this: http://i.imgur.com/6iiF3zi.png.

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 I've been wondering about how the web - specifically, the browse= r as a platform for applications - would have been different had plan 9 bec= ome a significant influence in operating systems in the early 90s. I've= come to the point where I thought a discussion here might be enjoyable and= enlightening, hopefully even to the point of dispelling the playful ribbin= g that this mailing list may or may not be dead. If this conversation has a= lready occurred, my apologies.

=C2=A0 The improvement I think = plan 9 could have brought to the early web is in allowing the browser to ha= ve remained, as I understand it to have been,=C2=A0 a medium for mark-up te= xt and images, and have the OS act as the platform for web applications.
The process I'm thinking of would be, with the example of a = banking application: the user opens the bank's web page in a plan 9 bro= wser; the user clicks a 'login' link; that link is sent to the plum= ber, which detects it as a web application link and directs it to a service= which:
- sandboxes it, perhaps by using a 'web' user or j= ust modifying the namespace to show the process a limited set of informatio= n;
- sets the namespace to prefer any libraries that are on the re= mote bank machine, allowing the application to always run with the environm= ent the application developers intended;
- sets the namespace to i= nclude any files the application needs from the remote sandbox, e.g. a dire= ctory with the user's banking files.

As a result of this, = it seems that much of the hooplah around flash, webGL, javascript, etc. cou= ld have been avoided, and that web applications from yesteryear could still= run today (for better or worse), since they could control their environmen= t. Web programming would have also have started off with far greater abilit= y, instead of having being limited by the abilities of its browser platform= and waiting years for even simple things to be standardized. Web games, vi= deo-streaming applications, etc. on par with local applications could have = been launched as soon as the infrastructure could support them, as the prov= iders could just program the application to do whatever the OS allowed.
=
It also seems it would avoid cookies and other privacy issues, since ap= plications would be sandboxed to only know about the things they have avail= able to them.

That said, having had discussions with friends in web= development, they have expressed concerns about ease-of-use and their init= ial interest in the field - if I understand correctly, they feel that html&= #39;s ease of modification and immediate gratification was beneficial to ge= tting them into programming, which - while my understanding of this communi= ty is that here it's not a highly valued thing - is, I think an importa= nt point to address. They are application developers, and the web had aspec= ts system languages did not which attracted them.

Again, if th= ese thoughts are obvious, my apologies, and if it's deeply flawed, my a= pologies - but I'd be interested in hearing why.

Thanks fo= r your time,

Mars


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