From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from tb-ob1.topicbox.com (tb-ob1.topicbox.com [64.147.108.173]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A302851E for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 19:18:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from tb-mx0.topicbox.com (tb-mx0.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.73]) by tb-ob1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF16A307CF for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:18:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bounce.mM0592fdb421431e638889480e.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id BA2D22F0E94F; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:18:34 -0500 (EST) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=bIT3F6ix header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=don.bailey@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-qt1-f180.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type:list-help:list-id:list-post :list-subscribe:reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t=1706206714; bh=qE/D+7RvE+NQ6RXv cxBFBO0PwsW65shkJboqgoRGHHk=; b=q3l3VO3fmWOTFMX4NIJFcoQ5x6R16jPQ URs2ObWppG/N3lOEQj0sohheQjXoogvPgAC9AXrYlxJluzUupOiKmhrqgiFwVLqX M5P8TM+kQ4EHApXORH9s72/LFMwFPx2eiwztzw+QIcDke8n33PuORrgIBqsM6oh8 OGChVnQ7kWs= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1706206714; b=G/u+jYy8PYdkfcUu0vPXalxFiAz4bccMASVOVH8BQJaQThXX3e 4tsUeBR0GEnJXe3fvAtxLe/NANFRevG/nw9X8NRoYoIeMpyGJj0CTQCkcyCeyzSo fdsMDgitPIfQn5UunDw8RHHNnn+NjON1m6SEPNcwkS6qHch4TzzAW2O9M= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=bIT3F6ix header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=don.bailey@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-qt1-f180.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=bIT3F6ix header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.160.180 (mail-qt1-f180.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=don.bailey@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-qt1-f180.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=Ihg5yLDB; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-qt1-f180.google.com policy.ptr=mail-qt1-f180.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h= mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject :to:content-type:list-help:list-id:list-post:list-subscribe :reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; t=1706206714; x=1706293114; bh=cGpzmGS7seW6bAgc1Y1qLjZdwZk8e7+j 9Ufo7d/z0qM=; b=B3d+YQLIM/7ibZHviviB/Vi6Ztc0OBXdmttrRtf+HAB0/PYh +8Clpvf+LYfxiMqzS8IB1smpc/3V50PIVy1CrIcB/Nx2l2J8Y7i6qZi0McMIu/TV cfPSibLN9eSQsmut571NRbeMe6tbPs35+wMtDEhfOlokuB8H6P9WDT2A02Y= Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22167A4878E for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:18:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from don.bailey@gmail.com) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id DBC1E16D474; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:18:24 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1706206704; b=TyZmr3iUnOw1o+2XHlr4roXdef1J5qfkjtNVS0wNxcpSPaXPZf pX4PYNRG/OiSCznxbLR3NWo+pJJIQUCLqBmOzH/hL884u0x9t61TaN5zp9drhPSB eKpFupH0uWNcadyGNEhXrTbHdJwtCe3u1iC8ej/GPKRIRhWp3snzjANjbXrM53E1 CTxg5wQKGBaha7WBRrfrnQSLgeGLNo6i24U6gqaOGuu8YzHGW8rHGmnjKE8ChWUJ qmwVfhoTB7BXOK4I+9OHg5S8En8fgXYhF+kByI8GfntAbu4YYTdAvg9iFD0hpyDI 0G747ifJS26fxGI465QTMRmJM3Mh5lwXzMfQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type; s=arcseal; t=1706206704; bh=F111kjhMZkHnGTfScUP7CiZVXSD4exVB/cL5RvqjCos=; b=P8G1mOu5aumM RZQIW6P+njvt9aVtf4n2lU4ykoagSRboZmI/yDfh6kEQHx3QG2kgBEq49iXkSghy /mx5qPikxGuAWofB27mESx5rIKyvZcyIoC1rPFHNk7rZtYPq4fVfH4x3C4IJKseN TV2Arh/wL7ERsUzjRjAsXnSQfys4/LYN3SwfgjVmROqrV0J4VIY5CQ5HYEVW65TP n+v0gB499cnrJZdD0KoaMEhtB11dtCoxzDHaRkP/noLPxLrQMCp4blciQ8/zt84e y3YBR7QBU4MTyGcY6m4/jy+6GsUOkxVA0UyyTyFcrfsBWc/ums/8DWI/MA/iMJZw yoNSop0IjQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=bIT3F6ix header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20230601 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.160.180 (mail-qt1-f180.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=don.bailey@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-qt1-f180.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=Ihg5yLDB; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-qt1-f180.google.com policy.ptr=mail-qt1-f180.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrvdelhedgudelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpeggfhgjhf ffkffuvfgtsegrtderredttdejnecuhfhrohhmpeffohhnuceurghilhgvhicuoeguohhn rdgsrghilhgvhiesghhmrghilhdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgfejffefge fggfeliefgjeekgefftdejgfeludetuddulefguefgueeuvdfhueetnecuffhomhgrihhn pehtohhpihgtsghogidrtghomhenucfkphepvddtledrkeehrdduiedtrddukedtnecuve hluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvthepvddtledrkeehrdduiedt rddukedtpdhhvghlohepmhgrihhlqdhqthduqdhfudektddrghhoohhglhgvrdgtohhmpd hmrghilhhfrhhomhepoeguohhnrdgsrghilhgvhiesghhmrghilhdrtghomheq X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'don.bailey@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx1.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="don.bailey@gmail.com"; helo=mail-qt1-f180.google.com; client-ip=209.85.160.180 Received: from mail-qt1-f180.google.com (mail-qt1-f180.google.com [209.85.160.180]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:18:23 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from don.bailey@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt1-f180.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-42a029c8e62so45642461cf.1 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 10:18:23 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706206703; x=1706811503; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=F111kjhMZkHnGTfScUP7CiZVXSD4exVB/cL5RvqjCos=; b=Ihg5yLDB7zc/LgwwXWUX9rUBhc+wxRvFYzC+Mv3pREzRYN5LvDfY9V5ulE4SVyFxpy RkqtXxtAbPC8Kj/DK9r6XkBuK+3/1o1cEz46VyNBGHYUVinCgkgIzQip5XakrrMwQhEE TFbetzuRERMOgKLCX9LYsJdT0+QhSRUJQq2a/9TJ+Il3IzzdLzwPEbony83BLKQWoVyP eBafdLqZucRdSbvWYFpF2m+yBlrHSbC6UkGyt+2mKb5Uvbl7RI8PIOUbXMhG7PzoIZM7 R+kLt0Iql6vcY1nGcRPkSiylL64gKWla1t1KO2RwnQTiy4U05Bg+nWlrjF6PrrXk0Bit 5jOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwlqFjy4w+2wpZCpsk8QTkOJg6dkyEo1v/CS/1M2SSEoALJMwGq Z1H2cYdr9YjE8guRYsPG9O7ySR2DtKKLHZqlzTXakMMSqePPZAxTtYNIM4egVztu6Ph4/4D0+eK UuGWRxRFOC9KrOLZrf4csJPUd1qJ3J/Y5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGz8t3sl1QkKhvJELt5vKL4JAAl9wTfYDGNt67QCckw8/2Gjjt57ztR4V51zWZHetbM/GesofV/ztMcM1NUfEo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:130a:b0:42a:6e2f:cb6e with SMTP id v10-20020a05622a130a00b0042a6e2fcb6emr80708qtk.46.1706206702760; Thu, 25 Jan 2024 10:18:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0effcc39-7b03-4a1c-af30-36ffc6d97e2a@app.fastmail.com> <721b70fd-f7e8-463a-b9bc-33c9abf9ef58@posixcafe.org> In-Reply-To: <721b70fd-f7e8-463a-b9bc-33c9abf9ef58@posixcafe.org> From: Don Bailey Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:18:11 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Charting the Future: Envisioning Plan 9 Release 5 for the 9fans Community. [Was:Re: [9fans] Supported Notebooks] To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0000000000006e972b060fc93461 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 234f32e2-bbae-11ee-b69f-9f8badec2d6e Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UNDJmMTFlMDI2NWJjZmExOC1NMDU5MmZkYjQyMTQzMWU2Mzg4ODk0?= =?UTF-8?B?ODBlPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M0592fdb421431e638889480e:1:_wCaiZUpB-ag87Q6dr_EE-wflpGA9kIEKG3rD9LnTBU --0000000000006e972b060fc93461 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And if 9front stays 9front, that's fine by me. Do it up :-) On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 1:13=E2=80=AFPM Jacob Moody w= rote: > Do you have specific issues with our code? All I've seen is vague finger > pointing. > We don't need some authority to point at 9front and say its "mainline", > people > see where the effort is going, endorsement or not. > > On 1/25/24 10:44, Don Bailey wrote: > > I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it. > > > > If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 altogether. Both > as a user and a developer. > > > > I trust the sources that come from 9legacy/9pio but I don't have any > interest in the mess of whatever 9front is supposed to be. > > > > D > > > > On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 11:40=E2=80=AFAM hiro via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net > > wrote: > > > I am not a fan of the weird 9front split from the standard repo. > I=E2=80=99d prefer the sources to be managed by the foundation and would = like to > only receive patches through them. > > > > Are you speaking as part of the foundation? As a developer? Or as a > User? > > > > Me, as a user, I would also appreciate if the foundation (or the re= al > > bell-labs unix room heritage, before the foundation existed) would > > "manage" something. for example development and continuous hosting > of > > the sources server. This doesn't seem to be the case. > > > > I also would appreciate the making available of patches by the > > foundation. I have no clue where their codebase is moving in the la= st > > few years as there was no single commit (or even simple patch via > > email) received from them. > > > > I think the reason the 9front repo is continuing to stay split "off" > > is because the bell-labs servers have all been shut down. As a resu= lt > > the community has stepped in to donate their own time, money, server > > resources, sweat and blood, etc. to keep a usable plan 9 version and > > community (that is willing to stay patches) alive. > > > > It is extremely unfortunate, but the pressure behind the freely > > contributed code ended up being stronger than the ability to > negotiate > > with the empty halls of bell-labs. So as a result lots of community > > members are able to contribute quite effectively. > > > > To me the legend of what must have been the unix room will always > stay > > alive, and I will continue to use it as a benchmark to measure my o= wn > > team's success against. But if I cannot be part of the group of cool > > kids that came out of this, I can at least have my own bell-labs, > with > > blackjack and hookers. In my head. > > > > Don, I wish you great technical collaborations. At least this is wh= at > > I have came here for, and have tried to take what caused awe in me > and > > keep them alive and infect others with all that. Maybe you can subm= it > > another patch to sources some day soon. > > > > hiro > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > 9fans: 9fans > > Permalink: > https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18-Md70d852f764bf0= 7113bf0b48 > < > https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18-Md70d852f764bf0= 7113bf0b48 > > > > Delivery options: > https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription < > https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> > > > > *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions < > https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants < > https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options < > https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink < > https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18-M49c3ee9d437d12= 3d75160dc8 ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18-M0592f= db421431e638889480e Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --0000000000006e972b060fc93461 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
And if 9front stays 9front, that's fine by= me. Do it up :-) 



On Thu, Jan 25, = 2024 at 1:13 PM Jacob Moody <moody@posixcafe.org> wrote:
Do you have specific issues with our code? All I= 9;ve seen is vague finger pointing.
We don't need some authority to point at 9front and say its "mainl= ine", people
see where the effort is going, endorsement or not.

On 1/25/24 10:44, Don Bailey wrote:
> I'm not sure what all this was, so I didn't read most of it.&n= bsp;
>
> If 9front becomes the "mainline" 9, I will stop using 9 alto= gether. Both as a user and a developer. 
>
> I trust the sources that come from 9legacy/9pio but I don't have a= ny interest in the mess of whatever 9front is supposed to be. 
>
> D
>
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 11:40 AM hiro via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net <mailto:9fans@9fans.net>&= gt; wrote:
>
>     > I am not a fan of the weird 9front split from = the standard repo. I’d prefer the sources to be managed by the founda= tion and would like to only receive patches through them.
>
>     Are you speaking as part of the foundation? As a de= veloper? Or as a User?
>
>     Me, as a user, I would also appreciate if the found= ation (or the real
>     bell-labs unix room heritage, before the foundation= existed) would
>     "manage" something. for example  dev= elopment and continuous hosting of
>     the sources server. This doesn't seem to be the= case.
>
>     I also would appreciate the making available of pat= ches by the
>     foundation. I have no clue where their codebase is = moving in the last
>     few years as there was no single commit (or even si= mple patch via
>     email) received from them.
>
>     I think the reason the 9front repo is continuing to= stay split "off"
>     is because the bell-labs servers have all been shut= down. As a result
>     the community has stepped in to donate their own ti= me, money, server
>     resources, sweat and blood, etc. to keep a usable p= lan 9 version and
>     community (that is willing to stay patches) alive.<= br /> >
>     It is extremely unfortunate, but the pressure behin= d the freely
>     contributed code ended up being stronger than the a= bility to negotiate
>     with the empty halls of bell-labs. So as a result l= ots of community
>     members are able to contribute quite effectively. >
>     To me the legend of what must have been the unix ro= om will always stay
>     alive, and I will continue to use it as a benchmark= to measure my own
>     team's success against. But if I cannot be part= of the group of cool
>     kids that came out of this, I can at least have my = own bell-labs, with
>     blackjack and hookers. In my head.
>
>     Don, I wish you great technical collaborations. At = least this is what
>     I have came here for, and have tried to take what c= aused awe in me and
>     keep them alive and infect others with all that. Ma= ybe you can submit
>     another patch to sources some day soon.
>
>     hiro
>
>     ------------------------------------------
>     9fans: 9fans
>     Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18= -Md70d852f764bf07113bf0b48 <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18= -Md70d852f764bf07113bf0b48>
>     Delivery options: https:= //9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription>
>
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans = / see discussions <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans= > + participants <https://9fans.topicbox.co= m/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Pe= rmalink <https= ://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18-M49c3ee9d437d123d75160= dc8>

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https:= //9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18-M3474b3710be83f926df8fe= 13
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/gro= ups/9fans/subscription
= --0000000000006e972b060fc93461--