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Wed, 15 May 2024 08:20:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4FB3A3BB-1CFA-4BC7-9DC2-CC9138B8325C@gmail.com> <2ff4cb73-352f-44e1-844b-5bb6cc92e1fe@posixcafe.org> <04a0afc1-6440-47b3-957c-0071ad88b117@posixcafe.org> In-Reply-To: From: Don Bailey Date: Wed, 15 May 2024 11:20:48 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9. To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00000000000069da0106187faaa1 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: c1d61e54-12ce-11ef-9df4-c30741cb4293 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYWQzZGMwYzkzMDM5YTdkMi1NNTIyZjgxMmZjY2M1YzU0MGQ4Yjky?= =?UTF-8?B?YmMwPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M522f812fccc5c540d8b92bc0:1:AuTQ5-pXdt8jlVVtkSq6jgRGRdVwmEYjnzI3ydZKU9s --00000000000069da0106187faaa1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is part of the issue I've had with 9front. If there are valid reasons for things to disappear or not be used, that's OK. But please document them and provide rationale/evidence for their removal. That way, even if another group chooses not to remove those items, they can learn from other teams' decision making. This is especially imperative for file system stability, for those that have not had trouble with Fossil, but need to understand that it is problematic enough to be pulled from 9front. How was the lack-of-stability tested? To what degree was it tested? etc. D On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 11:14=E2=80=AFAM Lucio De Re = wrote: > What makes you think I want Fossil back in 9front? I suggested that the > sources could be included in the distribution, so they would not fork-rot > as they are doing presently. It's always been the case that the Plan 9 > distribution included "broken" sources that could not be compiled without > external support, but were interesting enough to be published. That chang= ed > some when Alef was dropped and in fact I saved the Alef development stuff > and ported it to 3ed and 4ed because I disagreed with the decision. Note > that I made a sweeping generalisation, for simplicity, much was discarded > between 2ed and 4ed, and I find all that quite regrettable. > > I am certain that Cinap had good reasons for removing Fossil, but I'm not > sure you have painted the entire picture for this audience. No matter, of > course, 9front will be what 9front will be. > > I'm not going to argue with the semantic subtleties of "bad" as you > interpret it, but I will privately consider your judgement and interpret > your postings with a bias parallel to the one you have displayed toward me > so far. > > And I will not go away. Not by choice. > > Lucio. > > On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 4:37=E2=80=AFPM Jacob Moody = wrote: > >> On 5/15/24 04:02, Lucio De Re wrote: >> > I have asked precisely NOTHING and have only pointed out the >> consequences of omitting sources from the 9front distribution because it >> leads to undesirable divisions. >> >> I'm just trying to correct the misinformation you stated. >> When you call the decision to drop fossil "bad", your email reads as a >> persuasive argument for why things should change. >> I was in turn explaining why this is not happening, and if someone wanted >> that to change what would need to happen. >> >> > >> > I do find it tiresome that you keep ascribing intentions to me that may >> well reflect precisely how YOU would feel and react in my position. I >> assure I am nothing like that and I'm sure my history on 9fans for the p= ast >> 20+ years would reflect that. But then again, people have abandoned 9fans >> in the past for reasons not dissimilar from these; I can read the >> undercurrent ("because you are asking for other people to maintain your >> software for you for free"), I am not impolite enough to respond in kind. >>=20 >> Are your intentions not to persuade someone in the 9front world that >> fossil is worth adding back to the system? >>=20 > > > -- > Lucio De Re > 2 Piet Retief St > Kestell (Eastern Free State) > 9860 South Africa > > Ph.: +27 58 653 1433 > Cell: +27 83 251 5824 > *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions > + participants > + delivery options > Permalink > > ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tad3dc0c93039a7d2-M522f8= 12fccc5c540d8b92bc0 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --00000000000069da0106187faaa1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is part of the issue I've had with 9f= ront. If there are valid reasons for things to disappear or not be used, th= at's OK. But please document them and provide rationale/evidence for th= eir removal. That way, even if another group chooses not to remove those it= ems, they can learn from other teams' decision making. This is especial= ly imperative for file system stability, for those that have not had troubl= e with Fossil, but need to understand that it is problematic enough to be p= ulled from 9front. How was the lack-of-stability tested? To what degree was= it tested? etc. 

D

<= br />
On We= d, May 15, 2024 at 11:14 AM Lucio De Re <lucio.dere@gmail.com> wrote:
What makes you think= I want Fossil back in 9front? I suggested that the sources could be includ= ed in the distribution, so they would not fork-rot as they are doing presen= tly. It's always been the case that the Plan 9 distribution included &q= uot;broken" sources that could not be compiled without external suppor= t, but were interesting enough to be published. That changed some when Alef= was dropped and in fact I saved the Alef development stuff and ported it t= o 3ed and 4ed because I disagreed with the decision. Note that I made a swe= eping generalisation, for simplicity, much was discarded between 2ed and 4e= d, and I find all that quite regrettable.

I am certain= that Cinap had good reasons for removing Fossil, but I'm not sure you = have painted the entire picture for this audience. No matter, of course, 9f= ront will be what 9front will be.

I'm not go= ing to argue with the semantic subtleties of "bad" as you interpr= et it, but I will privately consider your judgement and interpret your= postings with a bias parallel to the one you have displayed toward me so f= ar.

And I will not go away. Not by choice.
=

Lucio.

On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 4:37 PM = Jacob Moody <mo= ody@posixcafe.org> wrote:
On 5/15/24 04:02, Lucio De Re wrote:
> I have asked precisely NOTHING and have only pointed out the cons= equences of omitting sources from the 9front distribution because it leads = to undesirable divisions.

I'm just trying to correct the misinformation you stated.
When you call the decision to drop fossil "bad", your email reads= as a persuasive argument for why things should change.
I was in turn explaining why this is not happening, and if someone wanted t= hat to change what would need to happen.

>
> I do find it tiresome that you keep ascribing intentions to me that ma= y well reflect precisely how YOU would feel and react in my position. I ass= ure I am nothing like that and I'm sure my history on 9fans for the pas= t 20+ years would reflect that. But then again, people have abandoned 9fans= in the past for reasons not dissimilar from these; I can read the undercur= rent ("because you are asking for other people to maintain your softwa= re for you for free"), I am not impolite enough to respond in kind.
Are your intentions not to persuade someone in the 9front world that fossil= is worth adding back to the system?



------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https:= //9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tad3dc0c93039a7d2-M487e5306116b96ed7c5b70= 52
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/gro= ups/9fans/subscription


--
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief St
= Kestell (Eastern Free State)
9860 South Africa

Ph.: +27 58 = 653 1433
Cell: +27 83 251 5824
9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery&n= bsp;options Permalink = --00000000000069da0106187faaa1--