From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <20130423.225549.100804076576453919.root@davidrhoskin.com> Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:46:42 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Peter A. Cejchan" To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4720f8dac4ab04db3de53b Subject: Re: [9fans] [GSOC] graphics projects Topicbox-Message-UUID: 487e9928-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --047d7b4720f8dac4ab04db3de53b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > Also, keep in mind that there is already a well known and popular tiling environment in Plan 9. If you are able to make a window manager with an acme feeling I'm sure many users would be interested. The challenge here is to have the good taste > required to come up with the right design, and that's quite a challenge. Adding graphics capabilities to Acme would be nice. Just IMHO. ++pac On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:34 AM, yy wrote: > On 24 April 2013 07:55, David Hoskin wrote: > >> Hello 9fans, >> >> I am interested in working on either of the graphics-related projects >> suggested on the GSOC wiki page. >> >> > Nice. > > >> For the window system enhancements, my immediate idea would be to >> implement title bars and dwm-style keyboard commands and tiling, but I >> fear that this would not be a large enough project for the whole >> summer. >> >> > Just porting dwm or some of its features to rio would probably be not > enough for a gsoc project. However, you have lots of interesting options to > expand on that. > > First, whatever you do must have, at some point, the form of a file > server, and you will have to play with the design until you find the right > one. It's easy to think in wmii-like file servers where you copy a window > to a tag with cp (or bind) and remove it with rm. Maybe even some > interesting new feature comes up naturally (the rio design makes natural > running rio inside rio, maybe whatever you do makes natural to have tags > inside tags or whatever). You also have to keep in mind that most of the > Plan 9 programs were intended to be used with a mouse, so although key > bindings may be implemented it should be comfortable for mouse users too > (you also have interesting options here, just now I'm using a > mouse-controlled dwm version and works quite well). > > Also, keep in mind that there is already a well known and popular tiling > environment in Plan 9. If you are able to make a window manager with an > acme feeling I'm sure many users would be interested. The challenge here is > to have the good taste required to come up with the right design, and > that's quite a challenge. > > >> I have the opposite concern about the Web /dev/draw; would it be >> acceptable to move some of the logic to the Go client rather than use >> it as a dumb proxy? I am not sure what division of labour I would >> settle on here. >> >> > I don't think nobody is sure about anything. Certainly, there is a way to > have a "drawterm in the browser", but it is not clear how to do it. I guess > figuring this out may be the first task. You will need some way to draw to > the screen and read input events, and you will need to provide a 9P servers > for applications to use. Drawing to the screen will probably involve the > HTML5 canvas and some dynamic language. The 9P server could be implemented > at different levels. There are many 9P libraries for different languages > and platforms which may be used, or you could use a custom protocol like > p9p's devdraw and then implement the 9P server in Inferno, Plan9 or some > program in the local host. And then, you need to glue both parts together. > > There are many options here, I think many of us have our own opinion on > the best way to achieve this. You will have to discuss the details with > your mentor. In any case, I think if you are confident to implement the > "web part" of the project, serving 9P is not going to be a significant > problem, and you could easily get some help for that. > > I think it is feasible to finish this project in a summer, but it won't be > easy. > > > Thanks, >> > > Good luck! > > > -- > - yiyus || JGL . > --047d7b4720f8dac4ab04db3de53b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Also, keep in mind that there is already a well = known and popular=20 tiling environment in Plan 9. If you are able to make a window manager=20 with an acme feeling I'm sure many users would be interested. The=20 challenge here is to have the good taste > required to come up with the= =20 right design, and that's quite a challenge.

Adding gr= aphics capabilities to Acme would be nice. Just IMHO.

++p= ac


On Wed,= Apr 24, 2013 at 9:34 AM, yy <yiyu.jgl@gmail.com> wrote:
On 24 April 2013 07:55, David Hoskin <root@davidrhoskin.com> wrote:
Hello 9fans,

I am interested in working on either of the graphics-related projects
suggested on the GSOC wiki page.


Nice.
=C2=A0
For the window system enhancements, my immediate idea would be to
implement title bars and dwm-style keyboard commands and tiling, but I
fear that this would not be a large enough project for the whole
summer.


Just porting dwm or some of its = features to rio would probably be not enough for a gsoc project. However, y= ou have lots of interesting options to expand on that.

First, whatever you do must have, at some point, the form of= a file server, and you will have to play with the design until you find th= e right one. It's easy to think in wmii-like file servers where you cop= y a window to a tag with cp (or bind) and remove it with rm. Maybe even som= e interesting new feature comes up naturally (the rio design makes natural = running rio inside rio, maybe whatever you do makes natural to have tags in= side tags or whatever). You also have to keep in mind that most of the Plan= 9 programs were intended to be used with a mouse, so although key bindings= may be implemented it should be comfortable for mouse users too (you also = have interesting options here, just now I'm using a mouse-controlled dw= m version and works quite well).

Also, keep in mind that there is already a well known a= nd popular tiling environment in Plan 9. If you are able to make a window m= anager with an acme feeling I'm sure many users would be interested. Th= e challenge here is to have the good taste required to come up with the rig= ht design, and that's quite a challenge.
=C2=A0
I have the opposite concern about the Web /dev/draw; would it be
acceptable to move some of the logic to the Go client rather than use
it as a dumb proxy? =C2=A0I am not sure what division of labour I would
settle on here.


I don't think nobody is sure= about anything. Certainly, there is a way to have a "drawterm in the = browser", but it is not clear how to do it. I guess figuring this out = may be the first task. You will need some way to draw to the screen and rea= d input events, and you will need to provide a 9P servers for applications = to use. Drawing to the screen will probably involve the HTML5 canvas and so= me dynamic language. The 9P server could be implemented at different levels= . There are many 9P libraries for different languages and platforms which m= ay be used, or you could use a custom protocol like p9p's devdraw and t= hen implement the 9P server in Inferno, Plan9 or some program in the local = host. And then, you need to glue both parts together.

There are many options here, I think many of us have ou= r own opinion on the best way to achieve this. You will have to discuss the= details with your mentor. In any case, I think if you are confident to imp= lement the "web part" of the project, serving 9P is not going to = be a significant problem, and you could easily get some help for that.

I think it is feasible to finish this project in a summ= er, but it won't be easy.
=C2=A0

Thanks,

=C2=A0Good luck!


--
- yiyus || JGL .

--047d7b4720f8dac4ab04db3de53b--