[9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Caleb Malchik]

I'm considering buying a Logitech M-S35 to help me learn sam/acme. My
only worry is that I'll wish I had a scroll wheel. It seems that
clicking the scroll bar whenever I want to scroll would take some focus,
and I shouldn't have to shift my focus to accomplish something as basic
as scrolling. Is there a consensus that scroll wheels make life easier?
Does anyone choose no scroll wheel out of preference rather than
availability?

Caleb

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Terry Wendt]

My vote would be for the scroll wheel.  I don't like to reach for the
mouse if I don't have to, but when you're already using the mouse the
scroll wheel is extremely handy.  Also, just because the mouse has a
scroll wheel it doesn't mean you have to use it.  And of course the
wheel doubles as a middle button, so no loss of functionality.  Just
my two cents.

Terry.

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Caleb Malchik <cmalchik@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm considering buying a Logitech M-S35 to help me learn sam/acme. My only
> worry is that I'll wish I had a scroll wheel. It seems that clicking the
> scroll bar whenever I want to scroll would take some focus, and I shouldn't
> have to shift my focus to accomplish something as basic as scrolling. Is
> there a consensus that scroll wheels make life easier? Does anyone choose no
> scroll wheel out of preference rather than availability?
>
> Caleb
>

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Rob Pike]

Let me put in a word about the Apple wireless trackpad. I doubt it's
got support in Plan 9, although it works from plan9port on the Mac. I
am devoted to it now: I use it for scrolling. Right hand for pointing
and clicking, left hand for scrolling. Works in acme, sam, etc. plus
of course all the other (non-Plan 9) tools in the hostile environment.

I may be the only person in the world who works like this, and is
therefore happy to move not one but two hands off the keyboard to use
2-d input devices.

-rob

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Anthony Sorace]

On Jul 2, 2013, at 22:18 , Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:

> I may be the only person in the world who works like this, and is
> therefore happy to move not one but two hands off the keyboard to use
> 2-d input devices.

This reminds me of Engelbart's "Mother of All Demos", with his mouse
and the chording thing. I've had a similar experience with the Shuttle
Xpress (or however they spell it), although that was more specific to the
workflow I was using at the time. The multi-touch trackpads are great,
although I do wish they could differentiate fingers somehow.

Anthony

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Joseph Xu]

I usually just lurk here, but I didn't want anybody else to go through
3 different mice like I did (HP 3 button mouse, contour mouse,
evoluent mouse) before settling on the lenovo scrollpoint mouse. IMHO
it's the best option that's abundantly available, reasonably priced,
and comfortable to use. It has a real middle button and a scroll
"stick" instead of a wheel. You can rest the tip of your middle finger
over the third button and manipulate the stick with your finger joint,
allowing you to middle click and scroll without repositioning your
finger. Its biggest drawback is the lack of driver support for the
scroll stick on any OS except Windows. In linux and freebsd, the
scroll stick is sensitive to the point of being unusable. I don't know
how it behaves in native plan 9. The only reason I'm happy with it is
because I run plan9port in a linux VM with a Windows host, so the
scroll events are processed by the host.

Joseph

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Aram Hăvărneanu]

> I may be the only person in the world who works like this, and is
> therefore happy to move not one but two hands off the keyboard to use
> 2-d input devices.

I used the same setup until I got the Contour Mouse:
http://ergo.contour-design.com/ergonomic-mouse/contour-mouse

--
Aram Hăvărneanu

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Steven Stallion]

I'm another Lenovo scrollpoint user, though I don't care for it as
much as Joseph. I've used the magic mouse on Mac OS for plan9port and
drawterm with a couple of actions bound to swipe actions that has
worked well too. I've been curious about the contour mouse, though I
haven't been curious enough to drop a hundred dollars on one just yet.

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Joseph Xu <josephzxu@gmail.com> wrote:
> I usually just lurk here, but I didn't want anybody else to go through
> 3 different mice like I did (HP 3 button mouse, contour mouse,
> evoluent mouse) before settling on the lenovo scrollpoint mouse. IMHO
> it's the best option that's abundantly available, reasonably priced,
> and comfortable to use. It has a real middle button and a scroll
> "stick" instead of a wheel. You can rest the tip of your middle finger
> over the third button and manipulate the stick with your finger joint,
> allowing you to middle click and scroll without repositioning your
> finger. Its biggest drawback is the lack of driver support for the
> scroll stick on any OS except Windows. In linux and freebsd, the
> scroll stick is sensitive to the point of being unusable. I don't know
> how it behaves in native plan 9. The only reason I'm happy with it is
> because I run plan9port in a linux VM with a Windows host, so the
> scroll events are processed by the host.
>
> Joseph
>

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Steve McCoy]

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 10:18:09 PM UTC-4, Rob Pike wrote:
> I may be the only person in the world who works like this, and is
> therefore happy to move not one but two hands off the keyboard to use
> 2-d input devices.
>
> -rob

This is actually how I've worked on my MacBook for a while, so
you're not alone. My left hand scrolls and sometimes points,
my right hand uses an HP 3-button for pointing, clicking, and
chording. I enjoy it.

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Peter A. Cejchan]

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I have ThinkPad T23 and the stick works with native Plan 9...
++pac


On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 6:51 AM, Joseph Xu <josephzxu@gmail.com> wrote:

> I usually just lurk here, but I didn't want anybody else to go through
> 3 different mice like I did (HP 3 button mouse, contour mouse,
> evoluent mouse) before settling on the lenovo scrollpoint mouse. IMHO
> it's the best option that's abundantly available, reasonably priced,
> and comfortable to use. It has a real middle button and a scroll
> "stick" instead of a wheel. You can rest the tip of your middle finger
> over the third button and manipulate the stick with your finger joint,
> allowing you to middle click and scroll without repositioning your
> finger. Its biggest drawback is the lack of driver support for the
> scroll stick on any OS except Windows. In linux and freebsd, the
> scroll stick is sensitive to the point of being unusable. I don't know
> how it behaves in native plan 9. The only reason I'm happy with it is
> because I run plan9port in a linux VM with a Windows host, so the
> scroll events are processed by the host.
>
> Joseph
>
>

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Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Devon H. O'Dell]

Hi Rob,

2013/7/2 Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com>:
> Let me put in a word about the Apple wireless trackpad. I doubt it's
> got support in Plan 9, although it works from plan9port on the Mac. I
> am devoted to it now: I use it for scrolling. Right hand for pointing
> and clicking, left hand for scrolling. Works in acme, sam, etc. plus
> of course all the other (non-Plan 9) tools in the hostile environment.
>
> I may be the only person in the world who works like this, and is
> therefore happy to move not one but two hands off the keyboard to use
> 2-d input devices.

Although I spend a large part of my time on a Mac laptop, I'm a little
puzzled at how or why one would use two hands with the trackpad
doohickey. I just have the trackpad built-in -- I don't have the
wireless trackpad -- but I'm curious as to how / why you use this, and
how two hands make it more interesting than what one might do with
multitouch.

Really not trolling, genuinely interested in hearing how you're using
this device. (Sad that I have to qualify that these days on this
list.)

> -rob

--dho

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Nemo]

On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:09 PM, "Devon H. O'Dell" <devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:

> Although I spend a large part of my time on a Mac laptop, I'm a little
> puzzled at how or why one would use two hands with the trackpad
> doohickey.

I use one pad|mouse combined with Fn keys defined as mouse buttons (with
chording). This works only on Plan 9, not on plan9ports, but, I found it very very
convenient. I usually end up with one hand in the mouse plus the left hand on
Fns, when not in typing mode.

I guess, regarding usability, that using an external pad could be as convenient.

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Kurt H Maier]

On Mon, Jul 08, 2013 at 06:09:14AM -0400, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
> Although I spend a large part of my time on a Mac laptop, I'm a little
> puzzled at how or why one would use two hands with the trackpad
> doohickey. I just have the trackpad built-in -- I don't have the
> wireless trackpad -- but I'm curious as to how / why you use this, and
> how two hands make it more interesting than what one might do with
> multitouch.


They're discussing using it in addition to a fully-functional mouse,
rather than instead of a fully-functional mouse.

khm

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Matthew Veety]

On Jul 8, 2013, at 10:19, Kurt H Maier <khm-9@intma.in> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 08, 2013 at 06:09:14AM -0400, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>> Although I spend a large part of my time on a Mac laptop, I'm a little
>> puzzled at how or why one would use two hands with the trackpad
>> doohickey. I just have the trackpad built-in -- I don't have the
>> wireless trackpad -- but I'm curious as to how / why you use this, and
>> how two hands make it more interesting than what one might do with
>> multitouch.
> 
> 
> They're discussing using it in addition to a fully-functional mouse,
> rather than instead of a fully-functional mouse.
> 
> khm
> 

I use a trackpad in addition to a mouse. Makes moving the cursor easy when I'm lazy.

Veety

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Devon H. O'Dell]

2013/7/8 Kurt H Maier <khm-9@intma.in>:
> On Mon, Jul 08, 2013 at 06:09:14AM -0400, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>> Although I spend a large part of my time on a Mac laptop, I'm a little
>> puzzled at how or why one would use two hands with the trackpad
>> doohickey. I just have the trackpad built-in -- I don't have the
>> wireless trackpad -- but I'm curious as to how / why you use this, and
>> how two hands make it more interesting than what one might do with
>> multitouch.
>
> They're discussing using it in addition to a fully-functional mouse,
> rather than instead of a fully-functional mouse.

I also have a fully functional mouse, so I fail to see how this is
answering anything about my question, which is what Rob is doing with
it. Because it sounds interesting and I'm apparently not smart enough
to infer.

> khm
>

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[fgergo]

On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Devon H. O'Dell <devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2013/7/2 Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com>:
> > I may be the only person in the world who works like this, and is
> > therefore happy to move not one but two hands off the keyboard to use
> > 2-d input devices.
> why one would use two hands with the trackpad
no change since 1997?
http://9fans.net/archive/1997/09/3

glass anyone?

Re: [9fans] How useful is a scroll wheel?

[Rob Pike]

I sit at my desk with a computer (not a laptop) on the floor, a
keyboard in front of me, a mouse on the right and a trackpad on the
left.

On the rare cases I'm programming on a laptop, it's really the same
except for the location of the trackpad. In particular, there's still
a mouse.

-rob