From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <449720C2-7F8C-40D3-9DC4-F7F69EF66645@me.com> References: <57BB9228.5070600@gmail.com> <57BB98EC.6030507@gmail.com> <57BD601A.508@gmail.com> <157DDAE0-B239-41FB-B10F-AFCC3F45A18F@me.com> <449720C2-7F8C-40D3-9DC4-F7F69EF66645@me.com> From: Nickolas Peter Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:54:04 -0400 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0819f4503d18053ad19d4c Subject: Re: [9fans] Is 9Fans dead or alive Topicbox-Message-UUID: 988b5b58-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --94eb2c0819f4503d18053ad19d4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brantley, Wow, that's really impressive. Thanks for sharing. Would you say that Supermicro hardware supports Plan 9 well, or did it take a lot of hacking and driver development? I have a Supermicro 1U sitting in my uncles basement =E2=80=94 I might go grab it and set it up as a fileserver. Nick On Wednesday, August 24, 2016, Brantley Coile wrote: > Nick, > > Coraid, Inc sold network storage systems that consisted of our software > running on more or less stock Supermicro hardware. We invented the > ATA-over-Ethernet block storage network protocol. We sold almost > $100,000,000 worth of stuff, somewhere north of 10,000 units, all running > Plan 9. > > I left Coraid the company in 2014 over disagreements with management on > the direction of the company, and started SouthSuite Software. Coraid, In= c. > was foreclosed on by the bank in 2015 and I was subsequently able to > purchase the good parts of the old Coraid, including the brand name > =E2=80=9CCoraid.=E2=80=9D Now, Coraid the brand lives on as a product of = SouthSuite > Software. > > Now, we license that same software, or our continuing evolution of it, to > run on Supermicro hardware our customer buys themselves at a big savings. > We also support the existing Coraid equipment that is in the field. > > You can check us out at http://www.coraid.com > > Thanks for asking. > > P. S. I still code exclusively in C and see no reason for me to change. > > Brantley > > > On Aug 24, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Nickolas Peter > wrote: > > > > Hi Brantley, > > > > I am by no means an experienced developer or Plan 9 user, so I can > hardly speak from the same experience level as most (I assume) of the > posters on this list. I only recently found myself very interested in Pla= n > 9, C, and embedded systems. As of now, I only run 9front as a learning > environment on series of virtual machines. > > > > It's really intriguing to hear that there's commercial hardware running > Plan 9, and very motivating to see that there are still people utilizing > Plan 9 in some way as a primary system. > > > > When you mentioned using Plan 9 in your shipping software, were you > referring to some internal software that you use to handle shipping > hardware to customers, or software that you sell to customers (say, to ru= n > on your hardware)? I'm interested to hear more about it, if you're at > liberty to share. > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > On Wednesday, August 24, 2016, Brantley Coile > wrote: > > Some general comments. > > > > It=E2=80=99s good to see it used in at least a few places. It=E2=80=99s= too good a > system to be the only one using it. But I will until providence completel= y > forces me to do otherwise, which I don=E2=80=99t anticipate. > > > > I=E2=80=99m really lucky to be able to use the system, especially in th= e way it > was envisioned in the 1980=E2=80=99s. My first knowledge of it was when I= asked > Dennis Ritchie what was new. He said that Ken was playing around with the > concept of union directories. Later, during one of my visits to the Labs, > in 1988 I think, Dennis gave me a demonstration of the system. > > > > One problem with most people who haven=E2=80=99t been as fortunate as I= have, is > they really just need a single system, not a distributed system. While Pl= an > 9 makes a better single system for some things than most OSes, it=E2=80= =99s really > not supposed to have local disks at all. It really is designed to be a > larger distributed timesharing system. At Coraid, we had two setups, one = in > Athens and one in Redwood City, that supported over 100 users in total. A= nd > without a single dedicated system admin. It was a very part time job, > mostly for Erik, but Ian Ennis did some as well. It was very easy to mana= ge > because it was a single machine. > > > > As far as I know, SouthSuite is now the only company both using it as a > development system or shipping software based on Plan 9. Does anyone know > of any others? > > > > Different people choose tools for different reasons and to satisfy > different requirements the world places on them. I chose to work in > embedded appliances so I could pick the software I use. The PIX Firewall > was a bit too early for Plan 9=E2=80=94it was not yet released when I wro= te the > PIX=E2=80=94but it was very much of the spirit, as was the Cisco LocalDir= ector. > Soon, we began using the 1995 Plan 9 release and I have been using it > almost exclusively ever since. I use it as the sole development environme= nt > and as the base of the products we ship. > > > > In spite of our early success at Coraid with the SR, after the VC > investment the use of Plan 9 became controversial. It=E2=80=99s not what = others > use, and in Sand Land (what else can one call Silicon Valley) that makes > people nervous. Over my objections, the company attempted to move to Open > Solaris. It=E2=80=99s a truism that a company that changes operating syst= em goes > out of business, and Coraid, Inc. again proved that to be true. The reaso= n? > A small company can=E2=80=99t afford the retooling costs to switch to ano= ther > operating system. > > > > But things have turned out well anyway, at least for me and the > traditional Coraid users. Now I have everything from the trademark to the > source code and now offer the Coraid product as a software product and ca= n > support existing Coraid users, both with software updates and with help > getting their hardware fixed or replaced. We are helping all those folks > who bought Coraid gear continue to get value of their purchase. One fello= w > sent me a note showing that he=E2=80=99s been up over 2,000 days without = rebooting. > There=E2=80=99s never a reason to fork-lift an SR. > > > > I like to think we do a good job, but our performance, efficiency and > low cost is all made possible by the superior system that was developed b= y > the folks at the Labs from 1987 thru 2002. > > > > Brantley > > > --94eb2c0819f4503d18053ad19d4c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brantley,

Wow, that's really impressive. Thanks for = sharing. Would you say that Supermicro hardware supports Plan 9 well, or di= d it take a lot of hacking and driver development? I have a Supermicro 1U s= itting in my uncles basement =E2=80=94 I might go grab it and set it up as = a fileserver.

Nick

On Wednesday, August 2= 4, 2016, Brantley Coile <brantle= ycoile@me.com> wrote:
Nick,

Coraid, Inc sold network storage systems that consisted of our software run= ning on more or less stock Supermicro hardware. We invented the ATA-over-Et= hernet block storage network protocol. We sold almost $100,000,000 worth of= stuff, somewhere north of 10,000 units, all running Plan 9.

I left Coraid the company in 2014 over disagreements with management on the= direction of the company, and started SouthSuite Software. Coraid, Inc. wa= s foreclosed on by the bank in 2015 and I was subsequently able to purchase= the good parts of the old Coraid, including the brand name =E2=80=9CCoraid= .=E2=80=9D Now, Coraid the brand lives on as a product of SouthSuite Softwa= re.

Now, we license that same software, or our continuing evolution of it, to r= un on Supermicro hardware our customer buys themselves at a big savings. We= also support the existing Coraid equipment that is in the field.

You can check us out at http://www.coraid.com

Thanks for asking.

P. S. I still code exclusively in C and see no reason for me to change.

=C2=A0 Brantley

> On Aug 24, 2016, at 9:00 AM, Nickolas Peter <nickpeteromalley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Brantley,
>
> I am by no means an experienced developer or Plan 9 user, so I can har= dly speak from the same experience level as most (I assume) of the posters = on this list. I only recently found myself very interested in Plan 9, C, an= d embedded systems. As of now, I only run 9front as a learning environment = on series of virtual machines.
>
> It's really intriguing to hear that there's commercial hardwar= e running Plan 9, and very motivating to see that there are still people ut= ilizing Plan 9 in some way as a primary system.
>
> When you mentioned using Plan 9 in your shipping software, were you re= ferring to some internal software that you use to handle shipping hardware = to customers, or software that you sell to customers (say, to run on your h= ardware)? I'm interested to hear more about it, if you're at libert= y to share.
>
>
> Nick
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2016, Brantley Coile <= brantleycoile@me.com> wrote:
> Some general comments.
>
> It=E2=80=99s good to see it used in at least a few places. It=E2=80=99= s too good a system to be the only one using it. But I will until providenc= e completely forces me to do otherwise, which I don=E2=80=99t anticipate. >
> I=E2=80=99m really lucky to be able to use the system, especially in t= he way it was envisioned in the 1980=E2=80=99s. My first knowledge of it wa= s when I asked Dennis Ritchie what was new. He said that Ken was playing ar= ound with the concept of union directories. Later, during one of my visits = to the Labs, in 1988 I think, Dennis gave me a demonstration of the system.=
>
> One problem with most people who haven=E2=80=99t been as fortunate as = I have, is they really just need a single system, not a distributed system.= While Plan 9 makes a better single system for some things than most OSes, = it=E2=80=99s really not supposed to have local disks at all. It really is d= esigned to be a larger distributed timesharing system. At Coraid, we had tw= o setups, one in Athens and one in Redwood City, that supported over 100 us= ers in total. And without a single dedicated system admin. It was a very pa= rt time job, mostly for Erik, but Ian Ennis did some as well. It was very e= asy to manage because it was a single machine.
>
> As far as I know, SouthSuite is now the only company both using it as = a development system or shipping software based on Plan 9. Does anyone know= of any others?
>
> Different people choose tools for different reasons and to satisfy dif= ferent requirements the world places on them. I chose to work in embedded a= ppliances so I could pick the software I use. The PIX Firewall was a bit to= o early for Plan 9=E2=80=94it was not yet released when I wrote the PIX=E2= =80=94but it was very much of the spirit, as was the Cisco LocalDirector. S= oon, we began using the 1995 Plan 9 release and I have been using it almost= exclusively ever since. I use it as the sole development environment and a= s the base of the products we ship.
>
> In spite of our early success at Coraid with the SR, after the VC inve= stment the use of Plan 9 became controversial. It=E2=80=99s not what others= use, and in Sand Land (what else can one call Silicon Valley) that makes p= eople nervous. Over my objections, the company attempted to move to Open So= laris. It=E2=80=99s a truism that a company that changes operating system g= oes out of business, and Coraid, Inc. again proved that to be true. The rea= son? A small company can=E2=80=99t afford the retooling costs to switch to = another operating system.
>
> But things have turned out well anyway, at least for me and the tradit= ional Coraid users. Now I have everything from the trademark to the source = code and now offer the Coraid product as a software product and can support= existing Coraid users, both with software updates and with help getting th= eir hardware fixed or replaced. We are helping all those folks who bought C= oraid gear continue to get value of their purchase. One fellow sent me a no= te showing that he=E2=80=99s been up over 2,000 days without rebooting. The= re=E2=80=99s never a reason to fork-lift an SR.
>
> I like to think we do a good job, but our performance, efficiency and = low cost is all made possible by the superior system that was developed by = the folks at the Labs from 1987 thru 2002.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Brantley


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