[9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

I have searched the web but can't find an answer. Any help highly
appreciated since I really want to use Plan9 on Raspberry Pi.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Quintile]

look at the plan9 wiki at bell labs.

http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/

-Steve


> On 11 Oct 2014, at 13:27, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have searched the web but can't find an answer. Any help highly
> appreciated since I really want to use Plan9 on Raspberry Pi.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

I have looked at the wiki and the documentation but it seems that some
things just doesn't apply when using Plan 9 on the Raspberry Pi.

On 10/11/14, Quintile <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
> look at the plan9 wiki at bell labs.
>
> http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/
>
> -Steve
>
>
>> On 11 Oct 2014, at 13:27, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have searched the web but can't find an answer. Any help highly
>> appreciated since I really want to use Plan9 on Raspberry Pi.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Quintile]

can you explain?

I cannot imagine what would be different on a pi, it's just a computer after all.

-Steve



> On 12 Oct 2014, at 08:28, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have looked at the wiki and the documentation but it seems that some
> things just doesn't apply when using Plan 9 on the Raspberry Pi.
> 
>> On 10/11/14, Quintile <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>> look at the plan9 wiki at bell labs.
>> 
>> http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/
>> 
>> -Steve
>> 
>> 
>>> On 11 Oct 2014, at 13:27, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have searched the web but can't find an answer. Any help highly
>>> appreciated since I really want to use Plan9 on Raspberry Pi.
>> 
>> 

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Quinti!
Do you have mail configured in Acme? If so, how did you make it work?

On 10/12/14, Quintile <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
> can you explain?
>
> I cannot imagine what would be different on a pi, it's just a computer after
> all.
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
>> On 12 Oct 2014, at 08:28, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have looked at the wiki and the documentation but it seems that some
>> things just doesn't apply when using Plan 9 on the Raspberry Pi.
>>
>>> On 10/11/14, Quintile <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>>> look at the plan9 wiki at bell labs.
>>>
>>> http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/
>>>
>>> -Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 11 Oct 2014, at 13:27, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have searched the web but can't find an answer. Any help highly
>>>> appreciated since I really want to use Plan9 on Raspberry Pi.
>>>
>>>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Quintile]

I'm not acme-ist, but a Sam-ite.

to send mail I use the mail program, and thus marshal.

to read it I use faces and thus nedmail




> On 12 Oct 2014, at 14:04, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Quinti!
> Do you have mail configured in Acme? If so, how did you make it work?
> 
>> On 10/12/14, Quintile <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>> can you explain?
>> 
>> I cannot imagine what would be different on a pi, it's just a computer after
>> all.
>> 
>> -Steve
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12 Oct 2014, at 08:28, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have looked at the wiki and the documentation but it seems that some
>>> things just doesn't apply when using Plan 9 on the Raspberry Pi.
>>> 
>>>> On 10/11/14, Quintile <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>>>> look at the plan9 wiki at bell labs.
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/
>>>> 
>>>> -Steve
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 11 Oct 2014, at 13:27, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have searched the web but can't find an answer. Any help highly
>>>>> appreciated since I really want to use Plan9 on Raspberry Pi.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Richard Miller]

Documentation for acme mail is cleverly hidden in /acme/mail/readme

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Eduardo Alvarez]

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On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 09:28:08AM +0200, Mats Olsson wrote:
> I have looked at the wiki and the documentation but it seems that some
> things just doesn't apply when using Plan 9 on the Raspberry Pi.

Mats,

As a (lurking) newbie myself, who is runnint Plan 9 on a Raspberry Pi, I can
tell you that following the instructions on the wiki do work. However, if you
have a lot of mail, you'll run out of memory. Or at least, I did. My gmail
account has over 4,000 messages, and that was too much for that setup. I tried
using it with a fastmail account, with only two messages, and it worked
perfectly. 

Maybe the more experienced users on the list can shed a little light on this.
Has anyone tried setting up upas on a raspberry pi, and succesfully handled that
amount of mail?

-- 
Eduardo Alvarez

"Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, moriturus sum"
  -- Rincewind The Wizzard

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steve Simon]

I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the raspberry pi per-se.
4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM.

Personally I save needed mail messages in named archives and try to keep the number
of messages in my inbox doen to the 10s.

Erik has nupas which reworks much to keep a file per message on disk, though
I'am not sure how thsi works with gmail (imap4 I assume).

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Kurt H Maier]

Quoting Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:

> I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the
> raspberry pi per-se.
> 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM.
>
> Personally I save needed mail messages in named archives and try to
> keep the number
> of messages in my inbox doen to the 10s.
>
> Erik has nupas which reworks much to keep a file per message on disk, though
> I'am not sure how thsi works with gmail (imap4 I assume).
>
> -Steve

nupas has done very well with large mailboxes, although I haven't
accessed a multithousand-message account with less than 256MB ram.
I'm unfamiliar with rpi-class subparcomputing but nupas should work
okay with comparatively little ram. the primary reason that we
haven't pushed to replace upas with nupas by default in 9front is
insufficent testing with the mbox format.

khm

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[kokamoto]

> okay with comparatively little ram. the primary reason that we
> haven't pushed to replace upas with nupas by default in 9front is
> insufficent testing with the mbox format.

I'm using nupas on 9front, which is much superior than upas.
Thanks eric!

Kenji

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Richard!

I've read the /acme/mail/readme but it just explains how it works not
how to configure it.

Kind Regards,
Mats

On 10/13/14, kokamoto@hera.eonet.ne.jp <kokamoto@hera.eonet.ne.jp> wrote:
>> okay with comparatively little ram. the primary reason that we
>> haven't pushed to replace upas with nupas by default in 9front is
>> insufficent testing with the mbox format.
>
> I'm using nupas on 9front, which is much superior than upas.
> Thanks eric!
>
> Kenji
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[p.d.finn]

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Hi Mats,

In an Acme window, try running:

Local upas/fs -f /imaps/your.mailserver.dom/username

On a Raspberry Pi, this may take a few seconds to complete with a
large mailbox.  You will know it is finished because the `fs' process
will disappear from the upper left-hand corner of Acme's tag line.
Then (also in an Acme window) run:

Mail

It helps if you already have auth/fgui running to receive your
password (if it isn't already loaded into factotum).

Best regards,
Peter

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From: Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 13:40:41 +0200
Message-ID: <CAEj9f0LCh00=sXU7QnVuWR4jNiN=dbzO-DhdMYZqLu7CqgZrHw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Richard!

I've read the /acme/mail/readme but it just explains how it works not
how to configure it.

Kind Regards,
Mats

On 10/13/14, kokamoto@hera.eonet.ne.jp <kokamoto@hera.eonet.ne.jp> wrote:
>> okay with comparatively little ram. the primary reason that we
>> haven't pushed to replace upas with nupas by default in 9front is
>> insufficent testing with the mbox format.
>
> I'm using nupas on 9front, which is much superior than upas.
> Thanks eric!
>
> Kenji
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

> I'm using nupas on 9front, which is much superior than upas.
> Thanks eric!

you're welcome, but you should really thank brantley coile for sponsoring
the work.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, steve@quintile.net wrote:
> I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the raspberry pi per-se.
> 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM.

it's a little worse than this, actually.

since upas stores messages in mbox format, the whole file needs to be read or written on
update.  certainly one could optimize the read bit, but that would be difficult  this means
that the the whole mbox gets written to the dump every day, and you need about 2x the
mailbox size ram for each upas/fs that is run.  this does not work out well for large mm
messages, or small ram boxes like the pi.

the solutions to this are straightforward
(1) store one message per file,
(2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,
(3) avoid O(n²) startup time due to small hash table sizes and high load factor,
(4) load message data on demand so ram required is MAX(largest mm hunk, 10mb).

i currently have 1000 messages in my inbox, but i have used nupas with 45000 messages.
some more work is necessary to handle a quarter million messages comfortably, as that's
too many for one directory.

nupas is just in /sys/src/cmd/upas on 9atom; the original is no more.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Eduardo Alvarez]

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On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:15:31PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, steve@quintile.net wrote:
> > I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the raspberry pi per-se.
> > 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM.
> 
> it's a little worse than this, actually.
> 
> since upas stores messages in mbox format, the whole file needs to be read or written on
> update.  certainly one could optimize the read bit, but that would be difficult  this means
> that the the whole mbox gets written to the dump every day, and you need about 2x the
> mailbox size ram for each upas/fs that is run.  this does not work out well for large mm
> messages, or small ram boxes like the pi.
> 
> the solutions to this are straightforward
> (1) store one message per file,
> (2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,
> (3) avoid O(n²) startup time due to small hash table sizes and high load factor,
> (4) load message data on demand so ram required is MAX(largest mm hunk, 10mb).

Have you considered other mailbox formats, such as maildir, for instance? Seems
that it could solve at least some of the problem.

-- 
Eduardo Alvarez

"Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, moriturus sum"
  -- Rincewind The Wizzard

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Bakul Shah]

On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:15:31 EDT erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, steve@quintile.net wrote:
> > I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the ras=
> pberry pi per-se.
> > 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM=
> .
>
> it's a little worse than this, actually.
>
> since upas stores messages in mbox format, the whole file needs to be rea=
> d or written on
> update.  certainly one could optimize the read bit, but that would be dif=
> ficult  this means
> that the the whole mbox gets written to the dump every day, and you need =
> about 2x the
> mailbox size ram for each upas/fs that is run.  this does not work out we=
> ll for large mm
> messages, or small ram boxes like the pi.
>
> the solutions to this are straightforward
> (1) store one message per file,

This is what MH (an old mail client) does by default.

> (2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,

This is what dovecot (an imap/pop3 server) does.

One other thing such mailservers do is to usually only
*append* to an mbox file. Deleted messages are marked as such
but their space is not reclaimed until you force a rebuild of
the mbox file and its index.

Pure imap clients typically only read last N messages from a
given mailbox.  More may be loaded as you scroll back.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Peter!

That sounds like something I could manage to try out. Thanks a lot!!!

Kind Greetings,
Mats

On 10/13/14, Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:15:31 EDT erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
> wrote:
>> On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, steve@quintile.net wrote:
>> > I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the
>> > ras=
>> pberry pi per-se.
>> > 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in
>> > RAM=
>> .
>>
>> it's a little worse than this, actually.
>>
>> since upas stores messages in mbox format, the whole file needs to be
>> rea=
>> d or written on
>> update.  certainly one could optimize the read bit, but that would be
>> dif=
>> ficult  this means
>> that the the whole mbox gets written to the dump every day, and you need
>> =
>> about 2x the
>> mailbox size ram for each upas/fs that is run.  this does not work out
>> we=
>> ll for large mm
>> messages, or small ram boxes like the pi.
>>
>> the solutions to this are straightforward
>> (1) store one message per file,
>
> This is what MH (an old mail client) does by default.
>
>> (2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,
>
> This is what dovecot (an imap/pop3 server) does.
>
> One other thing such mailservers do is to usually only
> *append* to an mbox file. Deleted messages are marked as such
> but their space is not reclaimed until you force a rebuild of
> the mbox file and its index.
>
> Pure imap clients typically only read last N messages from a
> given mailbox.  More may be loaded as you scroll back.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

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Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:
 |On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:15:31 EDT erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> \
 |wrote:
 |> On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, steve@quintile.net wrote:
 |>> I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the ras=
 |> pberry pi per-se.
 |>> 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM=
 |> .
 |> 
 |> it's a little worse than this, actually.

 |> the solutions to this are straightforward
 |> (1) store one message per file,
 |
 |This is what MH (an old mail client) does by default.
 |
 |> (2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,
 |
 |This is what dovecot (an imap/pop3 server) does.

Jamie Zawinski implemented that for Netscape 2.0/3.0 [1] but still
went for MBOX format.  But of course that wasn't designed for
Plan9 and permanent backup storage.  The page says

 Right now I'm looking at a folder in 3.0. It has 15,466 messages
 in it. Selecting this folder takes less than a second (it's hard
 to eyeball it, but I'd say it takes about 1/2 to 3/4 second from
 when I click to when I see the message summary on the screen).
 The BSD mbox file is 57.2MB (1.2 million lines) and the summary
 file is 1.3MB (2% of the size of the folder.)

 This is on a P266 with a local IDE disk (Linux.)

  [1] <http://www.jwz.org/doc/mailsum.html>

--steffen

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From: Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:10:51 -0700
Message-ID: <20141013171051.28A35B827@mail.bitblocks.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:15:31 EDT erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, steve@quintile.net wrote:
> > I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the ras=
> pberry pi per-se.
> > 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM=
> .
>
> it's a little worse than this, actually.
>
> since upas stores messages in mbox format, the whole file needs to be rea=
> d or written on
> update.  certainly one could optimize the read bit, but that would be dif=
> ficult  this means
> that the the whole mbox gets written to the dump every day, and you need =
> about 2x the
> mailbox size ram for each upas/fs that is run.  this does not work out we=
> ll for large mm
> messages, or small ram boxes like the pi.
>
> the solutions to this are straightforward
> (1) store one message per file,

This is what MH (an old mail client) does by default.

> (2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,

This is what dovecot (an imap/pop3 server) does.

One other thing such mailservers do is to usually only
*append* to an mbox file. Deleted messages are marked as such
but their space is not reclaimed until you force a rebuild of
the mbox file and its index.

Pure imap clients typically only read last N messages from a
given mailbox.  More may be loaded as you scroll back.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Anthony Sorace]

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On Oct 13, 2014, at 12:46 , Eduardo Alvarez <astrochelonian@gmail.com> wrote:

> Have you considered other mailbox formats, such as maildir, for instance? Seems
> that it could solve at least some of the problem.

nupas uses a maildir-like format. It helps tremendously.

Really: if you're doing mail on Plan 9, you want to be running nupas.


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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Winston Kodogo]

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Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed with
Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It has an
achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
asleep for the past decade."

On 14 October 2014 12:55, Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:

> On Oct 13, 2014, at 12:46 , Eduardo Alvarez <astrochelonian@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Have you considered other mailbox formats, such as maildir, for
> instance? Seems
> > that it could solve at least some of the problem.
>
> nupas uses a maildir-like format. It helps tremendously.
>
> Really: if you're doing mail on Plan 9, you want to be running nupas.
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Kurt H Maier]

Quoting Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com>:

> Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed with
> Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It has an
> achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
> asleep for the past decade."


patches welcome

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Winston Kodogo]

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https://www.apple.com/nz/support/icloud/mail-notes/

Sorry, not a patch as such.


On 14 October 2014 15:51, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:

> Quoting Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com>:
>
>  Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed
>> with
>> Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It has
>> an
>> achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
>> asleep for the past decade."
>>
>
>
> patches welcome
>
>
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Skip Tavakkolian]

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iCloud! Yes! Let's do that! It might even be secure on Plan 9 :)
On Oct 13, 2014 8:01 PM, "Winston Kodogo" <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:

> https://www.apple.com/nz/support/icloud/mail-notes/
>
> Sorry, not a patch as such.
>
>
> On 14 October 2014 15:51, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>
>> Quoting Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com>:
>>
>>  Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed
>>> with
>>> Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It has
>>> an
>>> achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
>>> asleep for the past decade."
>>>
>>
>>
>> patches welcome
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Winston Kodogo]

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i9factotum? It's a go!

On 14 October 2014 16:08, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com>
wrote:

> iCloud! Yes! Let's do that! It might even be secure on Plan 9 :)
> On Oct 13, 2014 8:01 PM, "Winston Kodogo" <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> https://www.apple.com/nz/support/icloud/mail-notes/
>>
>> Sorry, not a patch as such.
>>
>>
>> On 14 October 2014 15:51, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Quoting Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>  Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed
>>>> with
>>>> Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It
>>>> has an
>>>> achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
>>>> asleep for the past decade."
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> patches welcome
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steve Simon]

> Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email

Interesting, thats me then I guess - though I have never
thought of myself in those terms.

I send mail using mail(1)/marshal(1), never had a problem with it.

To receive mail I use faces which I find much more useful
than most modern apps, which insist on giving me sender
and subject lists.

When I look at my inbox I would rather have an icon of the sender,
this I can access quickly to judge wether I need to read the mail
now or defer it till later. Reading the (often cryptic) subject text
or parsing the name (things like "The Dude") takes a mental switch.

Looking at a picture of the culprit is better for my visually
orientated brain.

I also read email via imap on my iphone, which is useful but actually
feels clunkier than plan9 to me - too much "pretty zooming windows" and
not enough "just get on with it".

What features do you need that plan9 is missing (honest question)?

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On 14 October 2014 11:09, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
> What features do you need that plan9 is missing (honest question)?

Since I can't run a dedicated mail server and I want to be able to read
mail from anywhere, I have to use imap/pop3 from some server I have
no control over. So I use google's gmail.

Then:

-- Running imap with multiple mboxes (folders or whatever) did not work
for me (only one of them was updated).

-- Threading did not work properly.

-- When something went wrong during 'sending' from acme Mail, I did not
get any information that the mail had not been sent. So actually I always
had to control sending an email from, say, gmail's web interface.
(Or had to look manually into the logs.) That's a pretty bad behaviour.

-- You can't easily search within all mail like you can using gmail
(for anything in the body, withing given dates, from somebody,
combinations, etc.

-- I don't know how to correctly 'forward' an email from within acme Mail.

-- the fact that gmail helps you to fill addresses when writing an email
is extremely handy and useful.

That's just a few things.

[The worst I feel about www interface of gmail is the lack of a good
editor (undo, formatting). Thus I often prepare the email in acme
but then send it from gmail's interface.]


Ruda

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steve Simon]

Ok,

I don't use acme so most of those issues don't appear for me.

Also, I do run a server so mail is delivered to my machine and I
connect to it from iphones/ipads/etc etc when I want to use
those devcies. Most often I just use plan9 to read mail.

searching in nedmail is more limited I agree, you can only search
forwards or backwards in the current mailbox for patterns that match
either the header or the body; However this is enough for me.

autocompleting email addresses would be a niceity, though I tend to set
up aliases which I remember (I use a name I chose rather than the name
the computer or some authority chose). This is imperfect and occasionally
I need to lookup an adress but its rare.

I think I am trying to say, my experience is better than what you had,
however it is not as slick as gmail et al, however I have gotten used it
plan9's email and it doesn't feel like a problem for me.

Now a modern web browser, either native or running in an emulated environment
would be really good... Actually I have been toying with running another raspberry
Pi with Linux on it as a Chrome server.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Anthony Sorace]

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The mail I mostly read from Plan 9 is hosted on Plan 9, but I've done IMAP with it as well.

-- Running imap with multiple mboxes (folders or whatever) did not work
for me (only one of them was updated).

This is almost certainly a configuration issue. It's not exactly clear what you mean by "wasn't updated", but I can't think of anything that matches my experience. Setup with plumber, faces, &c can take some thought up front, though.

-- Threading did not work properly.

Folks have put this into the readers, but I don't use it and haven't evaluated it.

-- When something went wrong during 'sending' from acme Mail, I did not
get any information that the mail had not been sent. So actually I always
had to control sending an email from, say, gmail's web interface.
(Or had to look manually into the logs.) That's a pretty bad behaviour.

That is bad behavior. I haven't observed (n)upas to be any worse in that regard than any other system I've used, though. Upas maybe provides one or two more places for the handoff to go wonky, but there's always a handoff that can go bad.

Regardless, if this is coming up with *any* regularity, I again suspect a configuration issue.

-- You can't easily search within all mail like you can using gmail
(for anything in the body, withing given dates, from somebody,
combinations, etc.

True. I wrote Mg (http://9fans.net/archive/2008/11/647) to offset some of these deficiencies, but "modern" interfaces are well ahead here.

-- I don't know how to correctly 'forward' an email from within acme Mail.

If you just care about sending the content on, open the message, edit the first line to who you want it to go to, hit Post. Fastest method, although you're tweaking the original. If you'd rather the original message be included unmolested, open the message, hit Reply, edit the address, hit Post.

-- the fact that gmail helps you to fill addresses when writing an email
is extremely handy and useful.

Agreed.

That's just a few things.

The main thing for me that prevents me from using it for more of my mail is the lack of a good HTML formatter. I occasionally get mail I actually care about (and often get mail that I don't) where the formatting matters. It's rare enough that I can punt that to other devices and have it be okay, but common enough that it's distracting.

Configuration, especially when all you're doing is the client (IMAP) side, is more of a pain that most other options.




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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Richard Miller]

> -- When something went wrong during 'sending' from acme Mail, I did not
> get any information that the mail had not been sent.

acme/mail sends by handing messages to upas/marshal, and doesn't check
for return status.  The assumption is probably that if marshal fails,
you'll see its sysfatal message in an acme error window, and once
marshal has handed the message to upas/send it will either be
successfully delivered or you'll get an asynchronous bounce message
back by email.

Just last week I hit a case where that assumption wasn't true.  My file
system became full, so upas/send couldn't queue the message. Sadly
it couldn't send a bounce message back either, because ... the file
system was full.  Even more sadly, I missed the "file system full"
message, because my terminal didn't have a console window for the
cpu server open.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

> -- Threading did not work properly.
>
> Folks have put this into the readers, but I don't use it and haven't evaluated it.

nupas maintains References:, so i believe threading should work if you use a
threading reader.  so it would notbe hard to set up a command
to collect the references and display them with either ned or Mail.

> -- the fact that gmail helps you to fill addresses when writing an email
> is extremely handy and useful.
>
> Agreed.

wouldn't be hard to have upas/fs set up a fake directory with common or all
known email addresses so that the usual tab completion works in ned and Mail.

i never did this, because it's not how i deal with mail.

> The main thing for me that prevents me from using it for more of my mail is the lack of a good HTML formatter. I occasionally get mail I actually care about (and often get mail that I don't) where the formatting matters. It's rare enough that I can punt that to other devices and have it be okay, but common enough that it's distracting.

i actually like the fact that htmlfmt is rather basic.  it has made more than
one sophisticated phishing attempt easy to spot.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

> -- Running imap with multiple mboxes (folders or whatever) did not work
> for me (only one of them was updated).

tested with nupas, and it does work.  the default folder seperator in upas is /,
as one would expect, since "folder" is just a windows-centric synonym for
directory.  one can make + work too by adding a rewrite rule for it.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

On Mon Oct 13 22:42:58 EDT 2014, kodogo@gmail.com wrote:
> Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed with
> Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It has an
> achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
> asleep for the past decade."

i can't agree with this generalization.  i've had a lot of fun with plan 9 email.
both Mail and ned are interesting ideas, fun to work on and effective tools for me.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 14 October 2014 17:22, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> -- Running imap with multiple mboxes (folders or whatever) did not work
>> for me (only one of them was updated).
>
> tested with nupas, and it does work.  the default folder seperator in upas is /,
> as one would expect, since "folder" is just a windows-centric synonym for
> directory.  one can make + work too by adding a rewrite rule for it.
>
> - erik
>

http://9fans.net/archive/2012/12/62
is what was my problem back then

Ruda

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

> > tested with nupas, and it does work.  the default folder seperator in upas is /,
> > as one would expect, since "folder" is just a windows-centric synonym for
> > directory.  one can make + work too by adding a rewrite rule for it.
> >
> > - erik
> >
>
> http://9fans.net/archive/2012/12/62
> is what was my problem back then

there's no rule against running 2 acme mail instances.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Anthony Sorace]

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Ruda:
Just now, I tried this:

	: root; cd /mail/fs
	: root; lf
	ctl		mbox/
	: root; echo 'open /imap/mail.foo.org/anthony@foo.org box1' > ctl
	: root; lf
	box1/	ctl		mbox/
	: root; lf box1
	1/	15/	19/	22/	28/	32/	36/	40/	44/	48/	52/	56/	60/	64/	68/	71/	75/	ctl
	10/	16/	2/	23/	29/	33/	37/	41/	45/	49/	53/	57/	61/	65/	69/	72/	76/
	11/	17/	20/	24/	30/	34/	38/	42/	46/	50/	54/	58/	62/	66/	7/	73/	8/
	12/	18/	21/	25/	31/	35/	39/	43/	47/	51/	55/	59/	63/	67/	70/	74/	9/
	: root; echo 'open /imap/mail.foo.org/anthony@foo.org/Auction box2' > ctl
	: root; lf box2
	1/	13/	17/	20/	24/	28/	31/	35/	39/	42/	46/	5/	53/	57/	60/	64/	68/	9/
	10/	14/	18/	21/	25/	29/	32/	36/	4/	43/	47/	50/	54/	58/	61/	65/	69/	ctl
	11/	15/	19/	22/	26/	3/	33/	37/	40/	44/	48/	51/	55/	59/	62/	66/	7/
	12/	16/	2/	23/	27/	30/	34/	38/	41/	45/	49/	52/	56/	6/	63/	67/	8/

After that, I can run "Mail box1" and "Mail box2" in Acme, and both are
updated as one would expect. Faces, which was started earlier and needs
to know about specific mailbox names to monitor, is not.

The message you cited implied you're doing this from p9p, not Plan 9. Is
that the case? That would be a big difference.


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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Wes Kussmaul]

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Skip, why settle for "might even be secure" while using the platform of 
one of the companies that makes a practice of burglarizing your 
information home?

Why not use something like SpiderOak 
https://spideroak.com/?utm_expid=14446725-7.EXfixEIwRZmffqInbsytsg.0

- which lets you keep and control the encryption keys.

Or perhaps even better, the owners of SpiderOak put out a toolkit called 
Crypton https://crypton.io/ that lets you roll your own.

Wes


On 10/13/2014 11:08 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
>
> iCloud! Yes! Let's do that! It might even be secure on Plan 9 :)
>
> On Oct 13, 2014 8:01 PM, "Winston Kodogo" <kodogo@gmail.com 
> <mailto:kodogo@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     https://www.apple.com/nz/support/icloud/mail-notes/
>
>     Sorry, not a patch as such.
>
>
>     On 14 October 2014 15:51, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net
>     <mailto:khm@sciops.net>> wrote:
>
>         Quoting Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com
>         <mailto:kodogo@gmail.com>>:
>
>             Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for
>             email.I agreed with
>             Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running
>             Plan9. It has an
>             achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface
>             that has been
>             asleep for the past decade."
>
>
>
>         patches welcome
>
>
>
>

-- 

Wes Kussmaul
The Authenticity Institute
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451

office +1 781 790 1674
mobile +1 781 330 1881

“Try this fruit, and by the way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves Arthur Andersen signs something it’s the same as if a person named Arthur Andersen signed it.”

	- The Serpent


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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Skip Tavakkolian]

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Wes, i was being sarcastic in my reply to the suggestion that iCloud (or
any iSplat) products should be emulated on Plan 9.

-Skip


On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:

>  Skip, why settle for "might even be secure" while using the platform of
> one of the companies that makes a practice of burglarizing your information
> home?
>
> Why not use something like SpiderOak
> https://spideroak.com/?utm_expid=14446725-7.EXfixEIwRZmffqInbsytsg.0
>
> - which lets you keep and control the encryption keys.
>
> Or perhaps even better, the owners of SpiderOak put out a toolkit called
> Crypton https://crypton.io/ that lets you roll your own.
>
> Wes
>
>
>
> On 10/13/2014 11:08 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
>
> iCloud! Yes! Let's do that! It might even be secure on Plan 9 :)
> On Oct 13, 2014 8:01 PM, "Winston Kodogo" <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  https://www.apple.com/nz/support/icloud/mail-notes/
>>
>>  Sorry, not a patch as such.
>>
>>
>> On 14 October 2014 15:51, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Quoting Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>  Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed
>>>> with
>>>> Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It
>>>> has an
>>>> achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
>>>> asleep for the past decade."
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  patches welcome
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
>
> Wes Kussmaul
> The Authenticity Institute
> 738 Main Street
> Waltham, MA 02451
>
> office +1 781 790 1674
> mobile +1 781 330 1881
>
> “Try this fruit, and by the way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves Arthur Andersen signs something it’s the same as if a person named Arthur Andersen signed it.”
>
> 	- The Serpent
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Wes Kussmaul]

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Oh, I knew that...

:(  :(  :(


On 10/14/2014 04:03 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> Wes, i was being sarcastic in my reply to the suggestion that iCloud 
> (or any iSplat) products should be emulated on Plan 9.
>
> -Skip
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com 
> <mailto:wes@reliableid.com>> wrote:
>
>     Skip, why settle for "might even be secure" while using the
>     platform of one of the companies that makes a practice of
>     burglarizing your information home?
>
>     Why not use something like SpiderOak
>     https://spideroak.com/?utm_expid=14446725-7.EXfixEIwRZmffqInbsytsg.0
>
>     - which lets you keep and control the encryption keys.
>
>     Or perhaps even better, the owners of SpiderOak put out a toolkit
>     called Crypton https://crypton.io/ that lets you roll your own.
>
>     Wes
>
>
>
>     On 10/13/2014 11:08 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
>>
>>     iCloud! Yes! Let's do that! It might even be secure on Plan 9 :)
>>
>>     On Oct 13, 2014 8:01 PM, "Winston Kodogo" <kodogo@gmail.com
>>     <mailto:kodogo@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         https://www.apple.com/nz/support/icloud/mail-notes/
>>
>>         Sorry, not a patch as such.
>>
>>
>>         On 14 October 2014 15:51, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net
>>         <mailto:khm@sciops.net>> wrote:
>>
>>             Quoting Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com
>>             <mailto:kodogo@gmail.com>>:
>>
>>                 Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it
>>                 for email.I agreed with
>>                 Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months
>>                 running Plan9. It has an
>>                 achingly elegent internal structure, but a user
>>                 interface that has been
>>                 asleep for the past decade."
>>
>>
>>
>>             patches welcome
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>     -- 
>
>     Wes Kussmaul
>     The Authenticity Institute
>     738 Main Street
>     Waltham, MA 02451
>
>     office+1 781 790 1674  <tel:%2B1%20781%20790%201674>
>     mobile+1 781 330 1881  <tel:%2B1%20781%20330%201881>
>
>     “Try this fruit, and by the way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves Arthur Andersen signs something it’s the same as if a person named Arthur Andersen signed it.”
>
>     	- The Serpent
>
>

-- 

Wes Kussmaul
The Authenticity Institute
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451

office +1 781 790 1674
mobile +1 781 330 1881

“Try this fruit, and by the way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves Arthur Andersen signs something it’s the same as if a person named Arthur Andersen signed it.”

	- The Serpent


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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Winston Kodogo]

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Skip was being sarcastic? Who knew???

But in answer to Steve's question, the only things I would add to Plan9 are
a mail program and Web browser that I can work out how to use even in the
trance-like state of supreme enlightenment that can only be achieved when
one has consumed far too much gin. Apple Mail & Safari work for me, more's
the pity.

On 15 October 2014 09:29, Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:

>
> Oh, I knew that...
>
> :(  :(  :(
>
>
>
> On 10/14/2014 04:03 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
>
> Wes, i was being sarcastic in my reply to the suggestion that iCloud (or
> any iSplat) products should be emulated on Plan 9.
>
>  -Skip
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
>
>>  Skip, why settle for "might even be secure" while using the platform of
>> one of the companies that makes a practice of burglarizing your information
>> home?
>>
>> Why not use something like SpiderOak
>> https://spideroak.com/?utm_expid=14446725-7.EXfixEIwRZmffqInbsytsg.0
>>
>> - which lets you keep and control the encryption keys.
>>
>> Or perhaps even better, the owners of SpiderOak put out a toolkit called
>> Crypton https://crypton.io/ that lets you roll your own.
>>
>> Wes
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/13/2014 11:08 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
>>
>> iCloud! Yes! Let's do that! It might even be secure on Plan 9 :)
>> On Oct 13, 2014 8:01 PM, "Winston Kodogo" <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  https://www.apple.com/nz/support/icloud/mail-notes/
>>>
>>>  Sorry, not a patch as such.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14 October 2014 15:51, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quoting Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>  Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed
>>>>> with
>>>>> Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It
>>>>> has an
>>>>> achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
>>>>> asleep for the past decade."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  patches welcome
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>  --
>>
>> Wes Kussmaul
>> The Authenticity Institute
>> 738 Main Street
>> Waltham, MA 02451
>>
>> office +1 781 790 1674
>> mobile +1 781 330 1881
>>
>> “Try this fruit, and by the way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves Arthur Andersen signs something it’s the same as if a person named Arthur Andersen signed it.”
>>
>> 	- The Serpent
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Wes Kussmaul
> The Authenticity Institute
> 738 Main Street
> Waltham, MA 02451
>
> office +1 781 790 1674
> mobile +1 781 330 1881
>
> “Try this fruit, and by the way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves Arthur Andersen signs something it’s the same as if a person named Arthur Andersen signed it.”
>
> 	- The Serpent
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Rudolf Sykora]

Dear Anthony,

On 14 October 2014 20:40, Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:
> After that, I can run "Mail box1" and "Mail box2" in Acme, and both are
> updated as one would expect. Faces, which was started earlier and needs
> to know about specific mailbox names to monitor, is not.
>
> The message you cited implied you're doing this from p9p, not Plan 9. Is
> that the case? That would be a big difference.
>

I believe at that time I really used p9p, as you write.
(p9 proper is just not enough for my work.)
So if things are that much different (and more, you checked
it is ok with p9 proper), this issue is only relevant for p9p.

Thanks for the note.
Ruda

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[trebol]

For a external imap server, like gmail, you can compile heirloom's mailx
with ape.  Works nice with the plumber, and setting the pager to cat
it integrates nice within acme, a rio window or 9term.  I use it also
in p9p, until I meet a nice alternative.

trebol.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

trebol <trebol@india.com > wrote:
 |For a external imap server, like gmail, you can compile heirloom's mailx
 |with ape.  Works nice with the plumber, and setting the pager to cat
 |it integrates nice within acme, a rio window or 9term.  I use it also

So you like the bad girls honey,..
Is that true.

--steffen

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[trebol]

Steffen Nurpmeso <sdaoden@yandex.com> wrote:

> trebol <trebol@india.com > wrote:
>  |For a external imap server, like gmail, you can compile heirloom's mailx
>  |with ape.  Works nice with the plumber, and setting the pager to cat
>  |it integrates nice within acme, a rio window or 9term.  I use it also
>
> So you like the bad girls honey,..
> Is that true.
>
> --steffen

Yeah...

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

OK now I can receive email in Acme in Plan 9 for the Raspberry Pi. I'm
trying to get auth/fgui to start automatically when I start Plan 9.
Have tried to put it into the profile file but it doesn't work. Any
hints greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,
Mats

2014-10-15 15:00 GMT+02:00, trebol <trebol@india.com>:
> Steffen Nurpmeso <sdaoden@yandex.com> wrote:
>
>> trebol <trebol@india.com > wrote:
>>  |For a external imap server, like gmail, you can compile heirloom's
>> mailx
>>  |with ape.  Works nice with the plumber, and setting the pager to cat
>>  |it integrates nice within acme, a rio window or 9term.  I use it also
>>
>> So you like the bad girls honey,..
>> Is that true.
>>
>> --steffen
>
> Yeah...
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[P. D. Finn]

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>OK now I can receive email in Acme in Plan 9 for the Raspberry Pi. I'm
>trying to get auth/fgui to start automatically when I start Plan 9.
>Have tried to put it into the profile file but it doesn't work. Any
>hints greatly appreciated.

auth/fgui requires Rio, so it needs to load after Rio has started.  I
have a separate script to load a workspace in my lib directory.  This
script can be called when Rio starts in the profile by something like:

exec rio -f $font -i lib/script

Where `script' is an executable rc script which contains the lines:

#!/bin/rc
auth/fgui &

Once you have some windows arranged the way you like them you can run
wloc which reproduces the commands needed to generate them.  These
commands can likewise be added to your login script to load a
workspace.

Once you have auth/fgui running, you will want to get secstore setup
for your frequently-accessed credentials.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Peter

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From: Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2014 21:43:39 +0200
Message-ID: <CAEj9f0+t89o_XtNN0WnaSMsaTPQfjTREqcGjNNDp1kZmi4mCAQ@mail.gmail.com>

OK now I can receive email in Acme in Plan 9 for the Raspberry Pi. I'm
trying to get auth/fgui to start automatically when I start Plan 9.
Have tried to put it into the profile file but it doesn't work. Any
hints greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,
Mats

2014-10-15 15:00 GMT+02:00, trebol <trebol@india.com>:
> Steffen Nurpmeso <sdaoden@yandex.com> wrote:
>
>> trebol <trebol@india.com > wrote:
>>  |For a external imap server, like gmail, you can compile heirloom's
>> mailx
>>  |with ape.  Works nice with the plumber, and setting the pager to cat
>>  |it integrates nice within acme, a rio window or 9term.  I use it also
>>
>> So you like the bad girls honey,..
>> Is that true.
>>
>> --steffen
>
> Yeah...
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Peter!

Thanks a lot for your information. This will help me further to
configure Plan 9 OS on the Raspberry Pi. Thanks agai! I really
appreciate this info.

Kind Greetings,
Mats

2014-10-20 0:26 GMT+02:00, P. D. Finn <p.d.finn@gmail.com>:
>>OK now I can receive email in Acme in Plan 9 for the Raspberry Pi. I'm
>>trying to get auth/fgui to start automatically when I start Plan 9.
>>Have tried to put it into the profile file but it doesn't work. Any
>>hints greatly appreciated.
>
> auth/fgui requires Rio, so it needs to load after Rio has started.  I
> have a separate script to load a workspace in my lib directory.  This
> script can be called when Rio starts in the profile by something like:
>
> exec rio -f $font -i lib/script
>
> Where `script' is an executable rc script which contains the lines:
>
> #!/bin/rc
> auth/fgui &
>
> Once you have some windows arranged the way you like them you can run
> wloc which reproduces the commands needed to generate them.  These
> commands can likewise be added to your login script to load a
> workspace.
>
> Once you have auth/fgui running, you will want to get secstore setup
> for your frequently-accessed credentials.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[P. D. Finn]

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One more thing, for the line:

exec rio -f $font -i lib/script

make sure $font is correctly set or the exec of rio will fail.  You
can use that variable to set a different default font for rio if you like.

Since you can run rio in a regular window, test the command out that
way before you put it in your profile.

Best,
Peter

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From: Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 09:04:56 +0200
Message-ID: <CAEj9f0+0b33UcEnmruWmRENhDcBSqXOzBPCP1XjEHARPCo32Lg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Peter!

Thanks a lot for your information. This will help me further to
configure Plan 9 OS on the Raspberry Pi. Thanks agai! I really
appreciate this info.

Kind Greetings,
Mats

2014-10-20 0:26 GMT+02:00, P. D. Finn <p.d.finn@gmail.com>:
>>OK now I can receive email in Acme in Plan 9 for the Raspberry Pi. I'm
>>trying to get auth/fgui to start automatically when I start Plan 9.
>>Have tried to put it into the profile file but it doesn't work. Any
>>hints greatly appreciated.
>
> auth/fgui requires Rio, so it needs to load after Rio has started.  I
> have a separate script to load a workspace in my lib directory.  This
> script can be called when Rio starts in the profile by something like:
>
> exec rio -f $font -i lib/script
>
> Where `script' is an executable rc script which contains the lines:
>
> #!/bin/rc
> auth/fgui &
>
> Once you have some windows arranged the way you like them you can run
> wloc which reproduces the commands needed to generate them.  These
> commands can likewise be added to your login script to load a
> workspace.
>
> Once you have auth/fgui running, you will want to get secstore setup
> for your frequently-accessed credentials.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Peter!

I've tried the suggestion from your first post excluding $font and
that made rio execute but I get a "permission denied" when it comes to
running the script. I'm running as the default user Glenda on my
Raspberry Pi. So how can I get administrative permissions? I've tried
to create another user with adm and sys rights but I couldn't make it
work even though I did it according to the documantation. So it seems
to boil down to get administrative rights to be able to get everything
to work the way I want. So if you could help me out about this I would
greatly appreciate that and thanks a lot for the help you have given
me up to now. Thanks again!

Sincerely Yours,
Mats

2014-10-20 7:28 GMT, P. D. Finn <p.d.finn@gmail.com>:
> One more thing, for the line:
>
> exec rio -f $font -i lib/script
>
> make sure $font is correctly set or the exec of rio will fail.  You
> can use that variable to set a different default font for rio if you like.
>
> Since you can run rio in a regular window, test the command out that
> way before you put it in your profile.
>
> Best,
> Peter
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steve Simon]

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Under plan9 the user who boots a machine has rights to its filesystem,
so unless you are accessing a remote plan9 file server which is running
an auth server I doubt your problems are to do with administration rights.

Somtimes plan9 will produce slightly misleading error messages, permission
denied might be saying the OS will not allow you to do what you wanted
because it doesn't make sense.

What I suspect is that you didn't chmod your startup (riostart) script
to make it executable?

If this isn't the problem can you cut and paste the exact command that produced
the permission denied error?

I have attached my startup script for interest, it lives in my $home/bin/rc/startup
(other script names are available).

-Steve

[-- Attachment #2: startup --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 849 bytes --]

#!/bin/rc

rfork e

scr=(`{cat /dev/draw/new >[2]/dev/null || status=''})

height=$scr(12)
y1=`{echo 'int(' $height '*' 0.12 ')' | hoc}
y2=`{echo 'int(' $height '*' 0.3 ')' | hoc}
y3=`{echo 'int(' $height '*' 0.7 ')' | hoc}

width=$scr(11)
x1=`{echo 'int(' $width '*' 0.1 ')' | hoc}

x2=`{echo $x1 + 1 | hoc}
x3=`{echo 'int(' $x2 + '(' $width '*' 0.5 '))' | hoc}

x4=`{echo $x3 + 1 | hoc}
x6=`{echo $width - $y1 | hoc}
x5=`{echo $x6 - 1 | hoc}
x7=`{echo $width - 1 | hoc}

if(~ $service terminal)
	auth/fgui &

if(~ $service terminal && ! ~ $#cpu 0)
	window -r 0 0 $x1 $y1 stats -lmei $sysname $cpu
if not
	window -r 0 0 $x1 $y1 stats -lmei

window -r $x2 0 $x3 $y1 faces -i

if(cat /dev/volume >[2] /dev/null)
	window -r $x4 0 $x5 $y1 audio/tuner

window -r $x6 0 $x7 $y1 clock

window -r $x2 $y2 $x3 $y3 logwin

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi again Peter!

Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart but I
still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
of < '/bin/lib* file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
/lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.

Kind Greetings,
Mats

2014-10-20 13:34 GMT+02:00, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:
> Under plan9 the user who boots a machine has rights to its filesystem,
> so unless you are accessing a remote plan9 file server which is running
> an auth server I doubt your problems are to do with administration rights.
>
> Somtimes plan9 will produce slightly misleading error messages, permission
> denied might be saying the OS will not allow you to do what you wanted
> because it doesn't make sense.
>
> What I suspect is that you didn't chmod your startup (riostart) script
> to make it executable?
>
> If this isn't the problem can you cut and paste the exact command that
> produced
> the permission denied error?
>
> I have attached my startup script for interest, it lives in my
> $home/bin/rc/startup
> (other script names are available).
>
> -Steve

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi again Peter!

Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart" but I
still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
of < '/bin/lib' file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
/lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.

Kind Greetings,
Mats

PS Typo corrected DS

2014-10-20 19:25 GMT+02:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> Hi again Peter!
>
> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart but I
> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
> of < '/bin/lib* file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>
> Kind Greetings,
> Mats
>
> 2014-10-20 13:34 GMT+02:00, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:
>> Under plan9 the user who boots a machine has rights to its filesystem,
>> so unless you are accessing a remote plan9 file server which is running
>> an auth server I doubt your problems are to do with administration
>> rights.
>>
>> Somtimes plan9 will produce slightly misleading error messages,
>> permission
>> denied might be saying the OS will not allow you to do what you wanted
>> because it doesn't make sense.
>>
>> What I suspect is that you didn't chmod your startup (riostart) script
>> to make it executable?
>>
>> If this isn't the problem can you cut and paste the exact command that
>> produced
>> the permission denied error?
>>
>> I have attached my startup script for interest, it lives in my
>> $home/bin/rc/startup
>> (other script names are available).
>>
>> -Steve
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi again Peter!

Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart" but I
still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib' file
does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
of < '/bin/lib' file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
/lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.

Kind Greetings,
Mats

PPS Text changes when sent DDS

* should be an apostrophe like before /bin


2014-10-20 19:28 GMT+02:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> Hi again Peter!
>
> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart" but I
> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
> of < '/bin/lib' file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>
> Kind Greetings,
> Mats
>
> PS Typo corrected DS
>
> 2014-10-20 19:25 GMT+02:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>> Hi again Peter!
>>
>> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart but I
>> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
>> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
>> of < '/bin/lib* file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
>> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>>
>> Kind Greetings,
>> Mats
>>
>> 2014-10-20 13:34 GMT+02:00, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:
>>> Under plan9 the user who boots a machine has rights to its filesystem,
>>> so unless you are accessing a remote plan9 file server which is running
>>> an auth server I doubt your problems are to do with administration
>>> rights.
>>>
>>> Somtimes plan9 will produce slightly misleading error messages,
>>> permission
>>> denied might be saying the OS will not allow you to do what you wanted
>>> because it doesn't make sense.
>>>
>>> What I suspect is that you didn't chmod your startup (riostart) script
>>> to make it executable?
>>>
>>> If this isn't the problem can you cut and paste the exact command that
>>> produced
>>> the permission denied error?
>>>
>>> I have attached my startup script for interest, it lives in my
>>> $home/bin/rc/startup
>>> (other script names are available).
>>>
>>> -Steve
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Quintile]

FYI I'm Steve😄

I think some misunderstanding
lib/riostart refers to a file in the lib directory
in your home dir, as Rio is started in your home did.

/lib/riostart is a different file.

when rc(1) searches for command it does not strip
the leading path like sh(1) does, so you can run commands like
fs/zipfs, so you can classify commands - object orientation ? 😃

so, your script should be in lib, or bin/rc under your home
directory, and this is what your script should reference.

plan is different.

-Steve



> On 20 Oct 2014, at 18:32, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi again Peter!
> 
> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart" but I
> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib' file
> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
> of < '/bin/lib' file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
> 
> Kind Greetings,
> Mats
> 
> PPS Text changes when sent DDS
> 
> * should be an apostrophe like before /bin
> 
> 
> 2014-10-20 19:28 GMT+02:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>> Hi again Peter!
>> 
>> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart" but I
>> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
>> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
>> of < '/bin/lib' file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
>> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>> 
>> Kind Greetings,
>> Mats
>> 
>> PS Typo corrected DS
>> 
>> 2014-10-20 19:25 GMT+02:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>>> Hi again Peter!
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart but I
>>> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
>>> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
>>> of < '/bin/lib* file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
>>> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>>> 
>>> Kind Greetings,
>>> Mats
>>> 
>>> 2014-10-20 13:34 GMT+02:00, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:
>>>> Under plan9 the user who boots a machine has rights to its filesystem,
>>>> so unless you are accessing a remote plan9 file server which is running
>>>> an auth server I doubt your problems are to do with administration
>>>> rights.
>>>> 
>>>> Somtimes plan9 will produce slightly misleading error messages,
>>>> permission
>>>> denied might be saying the OS will not allow you to do what you wanted
>>>> because it doesn't make sense.
>>>> 
>>>> What I suspect is that you didn't chmod your startup (riostart) script
>>>> to make it executable?
>>>> 
>>>> If this isn't the problem can you cut and paste the exact command that
>>>> produced
>>>> the permission denied error?
>>>> 
>>>> I have attached my startup script for interest, it lives in my
>>>> $home/bin/rc/startup
>>>> (other script names are available).
>>>> 
>>>> -Steve
>> 

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi!

Sorry for the confusion! It's easier for me to compile a kernel in
linux than understand the basics of Plan 9. So, yes you're right, Plan
9 is different. But I won't give up so easy so thanks for your
patience with a 15+ years linux user trying to grasp something
completely different. Thanks Steve. I'll give it some more time
tomorrow since I feel kind of shot right now. Busy day and a lot of
travelling during the past weekend.

Kindest regards,
Mats

2014-10-20 19:49 GMT+02:00, Quintile <steve@quintile.net>:
> FYI I'm Steve😄
>
> I think some misunderstanding
> lib/riostart refers to a file in the lib directory
> in your home dir, as Rio is started in your home did.
>
> /lib/riostart is a different file.
>
> when rc(1) searches for command it does not strip
> the leading path like sh(1) does, so you can run commands like
> fs/zipfs, so you can classify commands - object orientation ? 😃
>
> so, your script should be in lib, or bin/rc under your home
> directory, and this is what your script should reference.
>
> plan is different.
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 18:32, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi again Peter!
>>
>> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart" but I
>> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib' file
>> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
>> of < '/bin/lib' file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
>> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>>
>> Kind Greetings,
>> Mats
>>
>> PPS Text changes when sent DDS
>>
>> * should be an apostrophe like before /bin
>>
>>
>> 2014-10-20 19:28 GMT+02:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>>> Hi again Peter!
>>>
>>> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart" but I
>>> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
>>> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
>>> of < '/bin/lib' file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
>>> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>>>
>>> Kind Greetings,
>>> Mats
>>>
>>> PS Typo corrected DS
>>>
>>> 2014-10-20 19:25 GMT+02:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>>>> Hi again Peter!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart but I
>>>> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
>>>> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
>>>> of < '/bin/lib* file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
>>>> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>>>>
>>>> Kind Greetings,
>>>> Mats
>>>>
>>>> 2014-10-20 13:34 GMT+02:00, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:
>>>>> Under plan9 the user who boots a machine has rights to its filesystem,
>>>>> so unless you are accessing a remote plan9 file server which is
>>>>> running
>>>>> an auth server I doubt your problems are to do with administration
>>>>> rights.
>>>>>
>>>>> Somtimes plan9 will produce slightly misleading error messages,
>>>>> permission
>>>>> denied might be saying the OS will not allow you to do what you wanted
>>>>> because it doesn't make sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I suspect is that you didn't chmod your startup (riostart) script
>>>>> to make it executable?
>>>>>
>>>>> If this isn't the problem can you cut and paste the exact command that
>>>>> produced
>>>>> the permission denied error?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have attached my startup script for interest, it lives in my
>>>>> $home/bin/rc/startup
>>>>> (other script names are available).
>>>>>
>>>>> -Steve
>>>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi again!

Tried again with different setups in <riostart> and I didn't get any
error messages sometimes but auth/fgui didn't start but it works just
fine manually. Maybe it's a Raspberry Pi thing.

Kind regards from a cold Sweden,
meo

2014-10-20 20:44 GMT+02:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> Hi!
>
> Sorry for the confusion! It's easier for me to compile a kernel in
> linux than understand the basics of Plan 9. So, yes you're right, Plan
> 9 is different. But I won't give up so easy so thanks for your
> patience with a 15+ years linux user trying to grasp something
> completely different. Thanks Steve. I'll give it some more time
> tomorrow since I feel kind of shot right now. Busy day and a lot of
> travelling during the past weekend.
>
> Kindest regards,
> Mats
>
> 2014-10-20 19:49 GMT+02:00, Quintile <steve@quintile.net>:
>> FYI I'm Steve😄
>>
>> I think some misunderstanding
>> lib/riostart refers to a file in the lib directory
>> in your home dir, as Rio is started in your home did.
>>
>> /lib/riostart is a different file.
>>
>> when rc(1) searches for command it does not strip
>> the leading path like sh(1) does, so you can run commands like
>> fs/zipfs, so you can classify commands - object orientation ? 😃
>>
>> so, your script should be in lib, or bin/rc under your home
>> directory, and this is what your script should reference.
>>
>> plan is different.
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 18:32, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi again Peter!
>>>
>>> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart" but I
>>> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib' file
>>> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
>>> of < '/bin/lib' file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
>>> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>>>
>>> Kind Greetings,
>>> Mats
>>>
>>> PPS Text changes when sent DDS
>>>
>>> * should be an apostrophe like before /bin
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-10-20 19:28 GMT+02:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>>>> Hi again Peter!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart" but I
>>>> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
>>>> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
>>>> of < '/bin/lib' file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
>>>> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>>>>
>>>> Kind Greetings,
>>>> Mats
>>>>
>>>> PS Typo corrected DS
>>>>
>>>> 2014-10-20 19:25 GMT+02:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>>>>> Hi again Peter!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your patience. I did "chmod +x /path to/riostart but I
>>>>> still get the error message that follows: lib/script '/bin/lib* file
>>>>> does not exist . Since the script is in /lib I don't get the meaning
>>>>> of < '/bin/lib* file does not exist>. Well /bin/lib doesn't exist but
>>>>> /lib/script does. Would greatly appreciate a hint about what to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind Greetings,
>>>>> Mats
>>>>>
>>>>> 2014-10-20 13:34 GMT+02:00, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:
>>>>>> Under plan9 the user who boots a machine has rights to its
>>>>>> filesystem,
>>>>>> so unless you are accessing a remote plan9 file server which is
>>>>>> running
>>>>>> an auth server I doubt your problems are to do with administration
>>>>>> rights.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Somtimes plan9 will produce slightly misleading error messages,
>>>>>> permission
>>>>>> denied might be saying the OS will not allow you to do what you
>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>> because it doesn't make sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I suspect is that you didn't chmod your startup (riostart)
>>>>>> script
>>>>>> to make it executable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this isn't the problem can you cut and paste the exact command
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> produced
>>>>>> the permission denied error?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have attached my startup script for interest, it lives in my
>>>>>> $home/bin/rc/startup
>>>>>> (other script names are available).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Steve
>>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[k0ga]

Hi,

This is my first post in the list, so it is also my presentation.

>
> Tried again with different setups in <riostart> and I didn't get any
> error messages sometimes but auth/fgui didn't start but it works just
> fine manually. Maybe it's a Raspberry Pi thing.

I am running plan9 in a raspberry and I am writing this mail with
acme. I had a problem while I was configuring the mail system, and
maybe you are having the same problem. The default profile has
something like:

	prompt=('cpu% ' '	')
	fn cpu%{ $* }
	startupasfs
	news
	if (! test -e /mnt/term/mnt/wsys) {
		# cpu call from drawterm
		font=/lib/font/bit/pelm/latin1.8.font
		plumber
		auth/factotum
		exec rio -i riostart
	}

You can see that startupasfs is executed before auth/factotum, so
the namespace entries created by factotum are not seen by
startupasfs. I had to change it to:

	prompt=('cpu% ' '	')
	fn cpu%{ $* }
	if (! test -e /mnt/term/mnt/wsys) {
		# cpu call from drawterm
		auth/factotum
		plumber
		startupasfs
		mailstart
		news
		exec rio -i riostart
	}
	if not {
		startupasfs
		news
	}

You can see that startupasfs is now called after be sure that there is
a factotum running. Maybe, this was not the problem, but in my
case it began to work after this modification.

Regards,

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

> Under plan9 the user who boots a machine has rights to its filesystem,
> so unless you are accessing a remote plan9 file server which is running
> an auth server I doubt your problems are to do with administration rights.

in practice, it often works out this way.  especially because the file server
typically drops a console that allows even to put the file system into allow mode.

but it doesn't have to be this way.  strictly speaking, the hostowner has
no special rights at all.  and the file system is not necessarly co-located on
your cpu server.  this is the difference between eve and root on unix.

one does not have to put eve in adm or especially sys.  in fact, i think this
makes one's system significantly less secure.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[lucio]

> one does not have to put eve in adm or especially sys.  in fact, i think this
> makes one's system significantly less secure.

It's complicated, in that access controls are enforced by distinct
entities with potentially very distinct criteria.  Trying to conceive
all possible combination of clients, servers and third-party
authenticators can lead to massive migraines.

That said, it's good to have the options.  Specially knowing that your
"root" does not by default have the same privileges on my equipment as
my "root" does.

Lucio.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email has been scanned by the MxScan Email Security System.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

On Mon Oct 27 12:34:58 EDT 2014, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote:
> > one does not have to put eve in adm or especially sys.  in fact, i think this
> > makes one's system significantly less secure.
>
> It's complicated, in that access controls are enforced by distinct
> entities with potentially very distinct criteria.  Trying to conceive
> all possible combination of clients, servers and third-party
> authenticators can lead to massive migraines.

it's not complicated.  permissions work like unix.  there is simply
a lack of the unix requirement that the owner of the file server be
the owner of the cpu server.

certainly one could require different creds for the same user on
every host, but we don't do that.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi guys!

OK, now I can get my mail but not send mail. This is what I've done:
     Changed the header file in /mail/box/$user/headers (since it
didn't exist i filled in the below).
     Added my login information to factotum according to the docs.
     Sent email to the server like this:
       ;upas/smtp -d -a -h localhost.localdomain net!smtp.gmail.com
myemail recipiente-mail
         a window shows up like when retrieving mail to fill in the password

A lot of thing are going on but terminates in "Username and Password
not accepted
Temporary failure, Retry "(all the time)

The command:
  ;tail -1 /sys/log/smtp results in the following:
  myipaddr. the time and TLS started to smtp.gmail.com

So obviously I'm missing something that I can't find in the
documentation or the wiki. I would be eternally grateful if someone
could shed some light on this. The only thing I can come up with is
that the machinename is wrong but I've tried several with the same
result. So, please help me out.

Kind greetings,
Mats

2014-10-27 20:10 GMT+01:00, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>:
> On Mon Oct 27 12:34:58 EDT 2014, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote:
>> > one does not have to put eve in adm or especially sys.  in fact, i think
>> > this
>> > makes one's system significantly less secure.
>>
>> It's complicated, in that access controls are enforced by distinct
>> entities with potentially very distinct criteria.  Trying to conceive
>> all possible combination of clients, servers and third-party
>> authenticators can lead to massive migraines.
>
> it's not complicated.  permissions work like unix.  there is simply
> a lack of the unix requirement that the owner of the file server be
> the owner of the cpu server.
>
> certainly one could require different creds for the same user on
> every host, but we don't do that.
>
> - erik
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi again!

Forgot to mention that I've installed the sha fingerprint for the
smtp.gmail.server.

-Mats

2014-10-29 22:43 GMT+01:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> Hi guys!
>
> OK, now I can get my mail but not send mail. This is what I've done:
>      Changed the header file in /mail/box/$user/headers (since it
> didn't exist i filled in the below).
>      Added my login information to factotum according to the docs.
>      Sent email to the server like this:
>        ;upas/smtp -d -a -h localhost.localdomain net!smtp.gmail.com
> myemail recipiente-mail
>          a window shows up like when retrieving mail to fill in the
> password
>
> A lot of thing are going on but terminates in "Username and Password
> not accepted
> Temporary failure, Retry "(all the time)
>
> The command:
>   ;tail -1 /sys/log/smtp results in the following:
>   myipaddr. the time and TLS started to smtp.gmail.com
>
> So obviously I'm missing something that I can't find in the
> documentation or the wiki. I would be eternally grateful if someone
> could shed some light on this. The only thing I can come up with is
> that the machinename is wrong but I've tried several with the same
> result. So, please help me out.
>
> Kind greetings,
> Mats
>
> 2014-10-27 20:10 GMT+01:00, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>:
>> On Mon Oct 27 12:34:58 EDT 2014, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote:
>>> > one does not have to put eve in adm or especially sys.  in fact, i
>>> > think
>>> > this
>>> > makes one's system significantly less secure.
>>>
>>> It's complicated, in that access controls are enforced by distinct
>>> entities with potentially very distinct criteria.  Trying to conceive
>>> all possible combination of clients, servers and third-party
>>> authenticators can lead to massive migraines.
>>
>> it's not complicated.  permissions work like unix.  there is simply
>> a lack of the unix requirement that the owner of the file server be
>> the owner of the cpu server.
>>
>> certainly one could require different creds for the same user on
>> every host, but we don't do that.
>>
>> - erik
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steve Simon]

Can you send the complete log when sending the email.

You can prevent the window that appears when sending mail
by teaching factotum the passwords for your mail provider.

Just so we can see the complete conversation with gmail
and get a better understanding of what went wrong.

I assume you have worked you way through this:

	http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/mail_configuration/index.html

particularly with reference to the section on SMTP TLS auth

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Steve!

First I want to mention that I've added the login information to
factotum prior to trying to send an e-mail from Acme. I open a new
window in Acme and type in the body of the mail. Afterward I type in
the tag line: ;upas/smtp -d -a -h localhost.localdomain
net!smtp.gmail.com mye-mail recipiente-mail

Then I get this error message:

Sending /net/dns 'smtp.gmail.com mx'
dns: dns: resource does not exist; negrcode 0
mxdial trying /net/net!smtp.gmail.com!smtp
220 mx.google.com ESMTP k72974791lak.22 – gsmtp (*)
EHLO plan9.168.0.118 (*)
250 - mx.google.com at your service,[109.225.120.180] (*)
250 – SIZE 35882577 (*)
250 – 8BITMIME (*)
250 – STARTTLS (*)
250 – ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES (*)
250 – PIPELINING (*)
250 – CHUNKING (*)
250 – SMTPUTF8 (*)
STARTTLS (*)
220 2.0.0 Ready to start TLS (*)
EHLO plan9.168.0.118 (*)
250 – mx.google.com at your service, [109.225.120.180] (*)
250 – SIZE 35882577 (*)
250 – 8BITMIME (*)
250 – AUTH LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH XOAUTH2 PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN OAUTHBEARER (*)
250 – ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES (*)
250 – PIPELINING (*)
250 – CHUNKING (*)
250 – SMTPUTF8 (*)
AUTH LOGIN
334 VXNlcm5hbWU6 (*)
ZHJ5NjmbHK= (*)
535 – 5.7.8 Username and Password bot accepted. Learn more at (*)
535 5.7.8 http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257
k7sm2974971lak22 – gsmtp (*)
535 – 5.7.8 Username and Password bot accepted. Learn more at (*)
535 5.7.8 http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257
k7sm2974971lak22 – gsmtp QUIT(*)
221 2.0.0  closing connection  k7sm2974971lak22 – gsmtp (*)
rc 280: smtp 281: Retry, Temporary Failure

NOTE BY ME: (*) stands for a sign looking like a messy backwards
eurosign maybe covering a final character.

I would be inmensly appreciative if you or anyone else could shed some
light on what's missing.

Yours Sincerely,
Mats

2014-10-29 22:58 GMT+01:00, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:
> Can you send the complete log when sending the email.
>
> You can prevent the window that appears when sending mail
> by teaching factotum the passwords for your mail provider.
>
> Just so we can see the complete conversation with gmail
> and get a better understanding of what went wrong.
>
> I assume you have worked you way through this:
>
> 	http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/mail_configuration/index.html
>
> particularly with reference to the section on SMTP TLS auth
>
> -Steve
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Kurt H Maier]

Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:

> 535 – 5.7.8 Username and Password bot accepted. Learn more at (*)
> 535 5.7.8 http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257

Did you read the linked web page?

khm

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Yes, I did and I made changes in the configuration of that mail box
accordingly but it still does give the same error message.

2014-10-30 15:08 GMT+01:00, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
> Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>
>> 535 – 5.7.8 Username and Password bot accepted. Learn more at (*)
>> 535 5.7.8 http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257
>
> Did you read the linked web page?
>
> khm
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Kurt H Maier]

Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:

> Yes, I did and I made changes in the configuration of that mail box
> accordingly but it still does give the same error message.
>

That website doesn't say anything about changing configuration.  Did
you perform the unlock captcha?

khm

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

could it be that with recent ssl/tls bugs, and the general fix being to turn
sslv3 off, plan 9 ssl isn't up to talking to gmail?

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Well that is what I meant with changing configuration since the level
of security was lowered with this action. In other words security
configuration.

2014-10-30 17:00 GMT+01:00, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>:
> could it be that with recent ssl/tls bugs, and the general fix being to
> turn
> sslv3 off, plan 9 ssl isn't up to talking to gmail?
>
> - erik
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Erik!

FYI my middle name is Erik. I'm kind of leaning towards an ssl problem
since gmail require ssl to receive e-mail.

2014-10-30 17:11 GMT+01:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> Well that is what I meant with changing configuration since the level
> of security was lowered with this action. In other words security
> configuration.
>
> 2014-10-30 17:00 GMT+01:00, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>:
>> could it be that with recent ssl/tls bugs, and the general fix being to
>> turn
>> sslv3 off, plan 9 ssl isn't up to talking to gmail?
>>
>> - erik
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi all of you!

Thanks for all the help you've given me to get this far using the Plan
9 OS on a Raspberry Pi! I can now retrieve mail from the gmail
accounts I've tried. It works well but, even though it doesn't make
sense to me, I can't send e-mail to those accounts. I just get the
error message that I posted a while ago. Now I've tried an updated
installation (pulled the sources and compiled and installed) but the
error message keeps coming up. Don't know what to do next. If anyone
has a solution to this problem I would be truly grateful to receive
it. Even if it's just a hint how to solve it.

Sincerely Yours,
Mats

2014-10-30 17:14 GMT+01:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> Hi Erik!
>
> FYI my middle name is Erik. I'm kind of leaning towards an ssl problem
> since gmail require ssl to receive e-mail.
>
> 2014-10-30 17:11 GMT+01:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>> Well that is what I meant with changing configuration since the level
>> of security was lowered with this action. In other words security
>> configuration.
>>
>> 2014-10-30 17:00 GMT+01:00, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>:
>>> could it be that with recent ssl/tls bugs, and the general fix being to
>>> turn
>>> sslv3 off, plan 9 ssl isn't up to talking to gmail?
>>>
>>> - erik
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[trebol]

Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all of you!
>
> Thanks for all the help you've given me to get this far using the Plan
> 9 OS on a Raspberry Pi! I can now retrieve mail from the gmail
> accounts I've tried. It works well but, even though it doesn't make
> sense to me, I can't send e-mail to those accounts. I just get the
> error message that I posted a while ago. Now I've tried an updated
> installation (pulled the sources and compiled and installed) but the
> error message keeps coming up. Don't know what to do next. If anyone
> has a solution to this problem I would be truly grateful to receive
> it. Even if it's just a hint how to solve it.
>
> Sincerely Yours,
> Mats
>
> 2014-10-30 17:14 GMT+01:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Erik!
> >
> > FYI my middle name is Erik. I'm kind of leaning towards an ssl problem
> > since gmail require ssl to receive e-mail.
> >
> > 2014-10-30 17:11 GMT+01:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> >> Well that is what I meant with changing configuration since the level
> >> of security was lowered with this action. In other words security
> >> configuration.
> >>
> >> 2014-10-30 17:00 GMT+01:00, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>:
> >>> could it be that with recent ssl/tls bugs, and the general fix being to
> >>> turn
> >>> sslv3 off, plan 9 ssl isn't up to talking to gmail?
> >>>
> >>> - erik
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[trebol]

You can try other smtp server.  If the problem is in the authorization
with Google, remember that you can use heirloom's mailx.  I compiled it in
plan9 some time ago, and I don't remember any trouble.  The configuration
is a child game.

Good luck.
trebol.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi trebol!

Thanks for your response! Will check it out ASAP.

Kind Regards,
Mats

2014-10-31 11:59 GMT+01:00, trebol <trebol@india.com>:
> You can try other smtp server.  If the problem is in the authorization
> with Google, remember that you can use heirloom's mailx.  I compiled it in
> plan9 some time ago, and I don't remember any trouble.  The configuration
> is a child game.
>
> Good luck.
> trebol.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:

 |error message keeps coming up. Don't know what to do next. If anyone
 |has a solution to this problem I would be truly grateful to receive
 |it. Even if it's just a hint how to solve it.

Have you read this thread already?

  <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.plan9/QJ095OvrvvI>

--steffen

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

On Fri Oct 31 09:10:50 EDT 2014, sdaoden@yandex.com wrote:
> Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  |error message keeps coming up. Don't know what to do next. If anyone
>  |has a solution to this problem I would be truly grateful to receive
>  |it. Even if it's just a hint how to solve it.
>
> Have you read this thread already?
>
>   <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.plan9/QJ095OvrvvI>

that thread's about p9p not plan 9, and i don't see the error at hand in the output.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

I have read bits of it before and now just about all. It's kind of
confusing since some are using different ports of Plan 9 and to figure
out what would apply on my setup on the Raspberry Pi. Have copied some
thoughts that seems useful and will ponder over them. Thanks for your
help! Since I'm new to Plan 9 I need all help I can get.

Kind greetings,
Mats

2014-10-31 14:30 GMT+01:00, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>:
> On Fri Oct 31 09:10:50 EDT 2014, sdaoden@yandex.com wrote:
>> Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  |error message keeps coming up. Don't know what to do next. If anyone
>>  |has a solution to this problem I would be truly grateful to receive
>>  |it. Even if it's just a hint how to solve it.
>>
>> Have you read this thread already?
>>
>>   <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.plan9/QJ095OvrvvI>
>
> that thread's about p9p not plan 9, and i don't see the error at hand in the
> output.
>
> - erik
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

 |that thread's about p9p not plan 9, and i don't see the error \
 |at hand in the output.

Well i do see hints from Erik.  In that thread, that is.
I consider that is.. something..

--steffen

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Quintile]

sorry for the delay, it's 1/2 term and I have kids to entertain.

the (*) would print as a carriage return if your font had the character.

I am on my phone here so no manuals , but I wonder if gmail objects to plain passwords over an unencrypted link? I think SMTP has a flag to force tls on, and to use macrame or digest auth. 

worth a try, it looks ok to me on the plan9 side. I used to use gmail but haven't for several years, but my old setup looked like yours.

-Steve





> On 30 Oct 2014, at 11:13, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Steve!
> 
> First I want to mention that I've added the login information to
> factotum prior to trying to send an e-mail from Acme. I open a new
> window in Acme and type in the body of the mail. Afterward I type in
> the tag line: ;upas/smtp -d -a -h localhost.localdomain
> net!smtp.gmail.com mye-mail recipiente-mail
> 
> Then I get this error message:
> 
> Sending /net/dns 'smtp.gmail.com mx'
> dns: dns: resource does not exist; negrcode 0
> mxdial trying /net/net!smtp.gmail.com!smtp
> 220 mx.google.com ESMTP k72974791lak.22 – gsmtp (*)
> EHLO plan9.168.0.118 (*)
> 250 - mx.google.com at your service,[109.225.120.180] (*)
> 250 – SIZE 35882577 (*)
> 250 – 8BITMIME (*)
> 250 – STARTTLS (*)
> 250 – ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES (*)
> 250 – PIPELINING (*)
> 250 – CHUNKING (*)
> 250 – SMTPUTF8 (*)
> STARTTLS (*)
> 220 2.0.0 Ready to start TLS (*)
> EHLO plan9.168.0.118 (*)
> 250 – mx.google.com at your service, [109.225.120.180] (*)
> 250 – SIZE 35882577 (*)
> 250 – 8BITMIME (*)
> 250 – AUTH LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH XOAUTH2 PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN OAUTHBEARER (*)
> 250 – ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES (*)
> 250 – PIPELINING (*)
> 250 – CHUNKING (*)
> 250 – SMTPUTF8 (*)
> AUTH LOGIN
> 334 VXNlcm5hbWU6 (*)
> ZHJ5NjmbHK= (*)
> 535 – 5.7.8 Username and Password bot accepted. Learn more at (*)
> 535 5.7.8 http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257
> k7sm2974971lak22 – gsmtp (*)
> 535 – 5.7.8 Username and Password bot accepted. Learn more at (*)
> 535 5.7.8 http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257
> k7sm2974971lak22 – gsmtp QUIT(*)
> 221 2.0.0  closing connection  k7sm2974971lak22 – gsmtp (*)
> rc 280: smtp 281: Retry, Temporary Failure
> 
> NOTE BY ME: (*) stands for a sign looking like a messy backwards
> eurosign maybe covering a final character.
> 
> I would be inmensly appreciative if you or anyone else could shed some
> light on what's missing.
> 
> Yours Sincerely,
> Mats
> 
> 2014-10-29 22:58 GMT+01:00, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:
>> Can you send the complete log when sending the email.
>> 
>> You can prevent the window that appears when sending mail
>> by teaching factotum the passwords for your mail provider.
>> 
>> Just so we can see the complete conversation with gmail
>> and get a better understanding of what went wrong.
>> 
>> I assume you have worked you way through this:
>> 
>>    http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/mail_configuration/index.html
>> 
>> particularly with reference to the section on SMTP TLS auth
>> 
>> -Steve
>> 
>> 

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Steve!

Thanks for your reply! I'll check it out ASAP. When it comes to the
(*) sign I put it there as a substitution for a character that looked
like a really jagged and pixelized backwards euro sign that I just
dont know what it means. Thanks again!

Kind Regards,
Mats

2014-10-31 20:35 GMT+01:00, Quintile <steve@quintile.net>:
> sorry for the delay, it's 1/2 term and I have kids to entertain.
>
> the (*) would print as a carriage return if your font had the character.
>
> I am on my phone here so no manuals , but I wonder if gmail objects to plain
> passwords over an unencrypted link? I think SMTP has a flag to force tls on,
> and to use macrame or digest auth.
>
> worth a try, it looks ok to me on the plan9 side. I used to use gmail but
> haven't for several years, but my old setup looked like yours.
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 11:13, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Steve!
>>
>> First I want to mention that I've added the login information to
>> factotum prior to trying to send an e-mail from Acme. I open a new
>> window in Acme and type in the body of the mail. Afterward I type in
>> the tag line: ;upas/smtp -d -a -h localhost.localdomain
>> net!smtp.gmail.com mye-mail recipiente-mail
>>
>> Then I get this error message:
>>
>> Sending /net/dns 'smtp.gmail.com mx'
>> dns: dns: resource does not exist; negrcode 0
>> mxdial trying /net/net!smtp.gmail.com!smtp
>> 220 mx.google.com ESMTP k72974791lak.22 – gsmtp (*)
>> EHLO plan9.168.0.118 (*)
>> 250 - mx.google.com at your service,[109.225.120.180] (*)
>> 250 – SIZE 35882577 (*)
>> 250 – 8BITMIME (*)
>> 250 – STARTTLS (*)
>> 250 – ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES (*)
>> 250 – PIPELINING (*)
>> 250 – CHUNKING (*)
>> 250 – SMTPUTF8 (*)
>> STARTTLS (*)
>> 220 2.0.0 Ready to start TLS (*)
>> EHLO plan9.168.0.118 (*)
>> 250 – mx.google.com at your service, [109.225.120.180] (*)
>> 250 – SIZE 35882577 (*)
>> 250 – 8BITMIME (*)
>> 250 – AUTH LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH XOAUTH2 PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN OAUTHBEARER (*)
>> 250 – ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES (*)
>> 250 – PIPELINING (*)
>> 250 – CHUNKING (*)
>> 250 – SMTPUTF8 (*)
>> AUTH LOGIN
>> 334 VXNlcm5hbWU6 (*)
>> ZHJ5NjmbHK= (*)
>> 535 – 5.7.8 Username and Password bot accepted. Learn more at (*)
>> 535 5.7.8 http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257
>> k7sm2974971lak22 – gsmtp (*)
>> 535 – 5.7.8 Username and Password bot accepted. Learn more at (*)
>> 535 5.7.8 http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=14257
>> k7sm2974971lak22 – gsmtp QUIT(*)
>> 221 2.0.0  closing connection  k7sm2974971lak22 – gsmtp (*)
>> rc 280: smtp 281: Retry, Temporary Failure
>>
>> NOTE BY ME: (*) stands for a sign looking like a messy backwards
>> eurosign maybe covering a final character.
>>
>> I would be inmensly appreciative if you or anyone else could shed some
>> light on what's missing.
>>
>> Yours Sincerely,
>> Mats
>>
>> 2014-10-29 22:58 GMT+01:00, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:
>>> Can you send the complete log when sending the email.
>>>
>>> You can prevent the window that appears when sending mail
>>> by teaching factotum the passwords for your mail provider.
>>>
>>> Just so we can see the complete conversation with gmail
>>> and get a better understanding of what went wrong.
>>>
>>> I assume you have worked you way through this:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/mail_configuration/index.html
>>>
>>> particularly with reference to the section on SMTP TLS auth
>>>
>>> -Steve
>>>
>>>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Richard Miller]

To send mail from acme on native Plan 9 via gmail, this is what just
worked for me:

- make sure the last line of /mail/lib/rewrite is

([^!]*)!(.*) 		| 		"/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!$smtp'" "'\2@\1'"

- change /mail/lib/remotemail to add the '-a' flag to smtp

exec /bin/upas/smtp -a -d -h $fd $addr $sender $*

- define $smtp for my local network in /lib/ndb/local

ipnet=localnet
	ip=192.168.0.0 ipmask=255.255.0.0
	smtp=smtp.gmail.com
	ntp=pool.ntp.org
	...

- give factotum the password for my gmail account

auth/factotum -g 'proto=pass service=smtp server=smtp.gmail.com user? !password?'

- add a tls thumbprint for the gmail server to /sys/lib/tls/smtp

x509 sha1=9C0ACC931DE7513790616BA11828679554C569A8 server=smtp.gmail.com

(I found the hash by trying to send once, then looking in /sys/log/smtp)

- finally, after receiving a "Google Account: sign-in attempt blocked"
email from google, followed their suggestion to:

"change your settings at
https://www.google.com/settings/security/lesssecureapps so that your
account is no longer protected by modern security standards."

I guess upas/smtp is considered a less secure app.

BTW, when having trouble sending email it's often useful to look
in /sys/log/smtp and /sys/log/smtp.fail

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi again Richard!

Thanks a lot for your advise! Will try it out ASAP.

Yours Sincerely,
Mats

2014-10-31 22:14 GMT+01:00, Richard Miller <9fans@hamnavoe.com>:
> To send mail from acme on native Plan 9 via gmail, this is what just
> worked for me:
>
> - make sure the last line of /mail/lib/rewrite is
>
> ([^!]*)!(.*) 		| 		"/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!$smtp'" "'\2@\1'"
>
> - change /mail/lib/remotemail to add the '-a' flag to smtp
>
> exec /bin/upas/smtp -a -d -h $fd $addr $sender $*
>
> - define $smtp for my local network in /lib/ndb/local
>
> ipnet=localnet
> 	ip=192.168.0.0 ipmask=255.255.0.0
> 	smtp=smtp.gmail.com
> 	ntp=pool.ntp.org
> 	...
>
> - give factotum the password for my gmail account
>
> auth/factotum -g 'proto=pass service=smtp server=smtp.gmail.com user?
> !password?'
>
> - add a tls thumbprint for the gmail server to /sys/lib/tls/smtp
>
> x509 sha1=9C0ACC931DE7513790616BA11828679554C569A8 server=smtp.gmail.com
>
> (I found the hash by trying to send once, then looking in /sys/log/smtp)
>
> - finally, after receiving a "Google Account: sign-in attempt blocked"
> email from google, followed their suggestion to:
>
> "change your settings at
> https://www.google.com/settings/security/lesssecureapps so that your
> account is no longer protected by modern security standards."
>
> I guess upas/smtp is considered a less secure app.
>
> BTW, when having trouble sending email it's often useful to look
> in /sys/log/smtp and /sys/log/smtp.fail
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Anthony Martin]

Richard Miller <9fans@hamnavoe.com> once said:
> - finally, after receiving a "Google Account: sign-in attempt blocked"
> email from google, followed their suggestion to:
>
> "change your settings at
> https://www.google.com/settings/security/lesssecureapps so that your
> account is no longer protected by modern security standards."
>
> I guess upas/smtp is considered a less secure app.

Embrace, extend, and ... well, you know the rest.

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2852231

  Anthony

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Anthony!

Very informative link, thanks!

Kind greetings,
Mats

2014-11-01 1:14 GMT+01:00, Anthony Martin <ality@pbrane.org>:
> Richard Miller <9fans@hamnavoe.com> once said:
>> - finally, after receiving a "Google Account: sign-in attempt blocked"
>> email from google, followed their suggestion to:
>>
>> "change your settings at
>> https://www.google.com/settings/security/lesssecureapps so that your
>> account is no longer protected by modern security standards."
>>
>> I guess upas/smtp is considered a less secure app.
>
> Embrace, extend, and ... well, you know the rest.
>
> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2852231
>
>   Anthony
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Skip Tavakkolian]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1417 bytes --]

embrace, extend, snuff? :)

if anyone wants to give it a try, there is enough Go code -- packages and
samples -- to make it less painful.

here's a sample [0] OAuth2-based web server ("resource provider") that
works with Google ("identity provider"). it runs on Plan 9, but each
instance will need its own client ID and client secret from Developer
Console. the code for installed app should be similar [1] with auth tokens
coming through a redirect to localhost rather than accessing a web address.
the access token can then be forward to imap4 or smtp [2]

-Skip

[0] https://gist.github.com/9nut/1f883d857369a279f289#file-oa2srv-go
[1] https://developers.google.com/accounts/docs/OAuth2InstalledApp
[2] https://developers.google.com/gmail/xoauth2_protocol


On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Anthony Martin <ality@pbrane.org> wrote:

> Richard Miller <9fans@hamnavoe.com> once said:
> > - finally, after receiving a "Google Account: sign-in attempt blocked"
> > email from google, followed their suggestion to:
> >
> > "change your settings at
> > https://www.google.com/settings/security/lesssecureapps so that your
> > account is no longer protected by modern security standards."
> >
> > I guess upas/smtp is considered a less secure app.
>
> Embrace, extend, and ... well, you know the rest.
>
> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2852231
>
>   Anthony
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Charles Forsyth]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 208 bytes --]

On 1 November 2014 00:14, Anthony Martin <ality@pbrane.org> wrote:

> > account is no longer protected by modern security standards."
> >
>

And they tout OAuth2 instead? What could possibly go wrong?

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Charles Forsyth]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 524 bytes --]

On 27 October 2014 19:10, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

> it's not complicated.  permissions work like unix.


It's actually simpler but more powerful: groups are just users with members
instead of a distinct thing; membership of a group is checked
by the relevant file server and not the local kernel; group membership
depends on the user name at the file server, not a separate group ID or
list of current groups; and permission is allowed by the first of owner,
group and other in that order.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 846 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi all!

I can't get through to any gmail account however I try but I got
through to another account but the mail was not containing anything. I
must be doing something wrong. I've tried like this:

term % acme -f /lib/font/bit/lucidasans/latin1.10.font
     (I like this font in acme)

Detete the last column so that I only have one large.

Middleclicking on NEW so I get a new window.

Then I type my message in the new window.

Type the line:
;upas/smtp -d -a -h localhost.localdomain net!smtp.spray.se
plan9.meo@gmail xxx@spray.se

Mark this line and middleclick on it to execute. To this e-mail
address (substituted with xxx) I get error messages but an empty mail
get through. If someone could point out what I'm doing wrong I'd very
grateful.

Kind Greetings and thanks for all the help I've been given so far,
Mats

PS I've changed all the settings in my installation of plan 9 on the
Raspberry Pi according to the way Richard Miller suggested DS


2014-10-31 22:53 GMT+01:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> Hi again Richard!
>
> Thanks a lot for your advise! Will try it out ASAP.
>
> Yours Sincerely,
> Mats
>
> 2014-10-31 22:14 GMT+01:00, Richard Miller <9fans@hamnavoe.com>:
>> To send mail from acme on native Plan 9 via gmail, this is what just
>> worked for me:
>>
>> - make sure the last line of /mail/lib/rewrite is
>>
>> ([^!]*)!(.*) 		| 		"/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!$smtp'" "'\2@\1'"
>>
>> - change /mail/lib/remotemail to add the '-a' flag to smtp
>>
>> exec /bin/upas/smtp -a -d -h $fd $addr $sender $*
>>
>> - define $smtp for my local network in /lib/ndb/local
>>
>> ipnet=localnet
>> 	ip=192.168.0.0 ipmask=255.255.0.0
>> 	smtp=smtp.gmail.com
>> 	ntp=pool.ntp.org
>> 	...
>>
>> - give factotum the password for my gmail account
>>
>> auth/factotum -g 'proto=pass service=smtp server=smtp.gmail.com user?
>> !password?'
>>
>> - add a tls thumbprint for the gmail server to /sys/lib/tls/smtp
>>
>> x509 sha1=9C0ACC931DE7513790616BA11828679554C569A8 server=smtp.gmail.com
>>
>> (I found the hash by trying to send once, then looking in /sys/log/smtp)
>>
>> - finally, after receiving a "Google Account: sign-in attempt blocked"
>> email from google, followed their suggestion to:
>>
>> "change your settings at
>> https://www.google.com/settings/security/lesssecureapps so that your
>> account is no longer protected by modern security standards."
>>
>> I guess upas/smtp is considered a less secure app.
>>
>> BTW, when having trouble sending email it's often useful to look
>> in /sys/log/smtp and /sys/log/smtp.fail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi all!

I can't get through to any gmail account however I try but I got
through to another account but the mail was not containing anything. I
must be doing something wrong. I've tried like this:

term % acme -f /lib/font/bit/lucidasans/latin1.10.font
     (I like this font in acme)

Delete the last column so that I only have one large.

Middleclicking on NEW so I get a new window.

Then I type my message in the new window.

Type the line:
;upas/smtp -d -a -h localhost.localdomain net!smtp.spray.se
plan9.meo@gmail xxx@spray.se

Mark this line and middleclick on it to execute. To this e-mail
address (substituted with xxx) I get an error messages in Acme but an empty mail
get through. If someone could point out what I'm doing wrong I'd be very
grateful.

Kind Greetings and thanks for all the help I've been given so far,
Mats

PS I've changed all the settings in my installation of plan 9 on the
Raspberry Pi according to the way Richard Miller suggested DS


2014-10-31 22:53 GMT+01:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> Hi again Richard!
>
> Thanks a lot for your advise! Will try it out ASAP.
>
> Yours Sincerely,
> Mats
>
> 2014-10-31 22:14 GMT+01:00, Richard Miller <9fans@hamnavoe.com>:
>> To send mail from acme on native Plan 9 via gmail, this is what just
>> worked for me:
>>
>> - make sure the last line of /mail/lib/rewrite is
>>
>> ([^!]*)!(.*) 		| 		"/mail/lib/qmail '\s' 'net!$smtp'" "'\2@\1'"
>>
>> - change /mail/lib/remotemail to add the '-a' flag to smtp
>>
>> exec /bin/upas/smtp -a -d -h $fd $addr $sender $*
>>
>> - define $smtp for my local network in /lib/ndb/local
>>
>> ipnet=localnet
>> 	ip=192.168.0.0 ipmask=255.255.0.0
>> 	smtp=smtp.gmail.com
>> 	ntp=pool.ntp.org
>> 	...
>>
>> - give factotum the password for my gmail account
>>
>> auth/factotum -g 'proto=pass service=smtp server=smtp.gmail.com user?
>> !password?'
>>
>> - add a tls thumbprint for the gmail server to /sys/lib/tls/smtp
>>
>> x509 sha1=9C0ACC931DE7513790616BA11828679554C569A8 server=smtp.gmail.com
>>
>> (I found the hash by trying to send once, then looking in /sys/log/smtp)
>>
>> - finally, after receiving a "Google Account: sign-in attempt blocked"
>> email from google, followed their suggestion to:
>>
>> "change your settings at
>> https://www.google.com/settings/security/lesssecureapps so that your
>> account is no longer protected by modern security standards."
>>
>> I guess upas/smtp is considered a less secure app.
>>
>> BTW, when having trouble sending email it's often useful to look
>> in /sys/log/smtp and /sys/log/smtp.fail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[trebol]

You must set the dot to all the text (mark all the text, for example type ':,' in the tag line and click it with buttom 3) and then execute in the tag '>upas/smtp -d -a  ...'

Don't forget the '>', read acme(1).

trebol.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

> Type the line:
> ;upas/smtp -d -a -h localhost.localdomain net!smtp.spray.se plan9.meo@gmail xxx@spray.se
>

i haven't done this by hand for a while but i see a few problems

1.  -h localhost.localdomain violates the rfc.  the rfc demands that the (E)HELO line
contain a name that's resolvable in public dns.

2.  the proper arguments looks incorrect.  from smtp(8)

          upas/smtp [ -aAdfipst ] [ -b busted-mx ] ... [ -g gateway ]
               [ -h host ] [ -u user ] [ .domain ] destaddr sender
               rcpt-list

that would give
.domain		= net!smtp.spray.se (!)
destaddr		= plan9.meo@gmail
sender		= xxx@spray.se

i'm pretty sure that the .domain argument is not as intended, from the man page:

          Finally if .domain is given, it is appended to the end of
          any unqualified system names in the envelope or header.

> Mark this line and middleclick on it to execute. To this e-mail
> address (substituted with xxx) I get an error messages in Acme but an empty mail
> get through. If someone could point out what I'm doing wrong I'd be very
> grateful.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

On Sat Nov  1 08:25:30 EDT 2014, charles.forsyth@gmail.com wrote:

> On 27 October 2014 19:10, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>
> > it's not complicated.  permissions work like unix.
>
>
> It's actually simpler but more powerful: groups are just users with members
> instead of a distinct thing; membership of a group is checked
> by the relevant file server and not the local kernel; group membership
> depends on the user name at the file server, not a separate group ID or
> list of current groups; and permission is allowed by the first of owner,
> group and other in that order.

like being a lazy term of art meaning similar, but not the same as.  :-)

i was being lazy about explaining the fact that groups have been implemented as
you mention is not essential.  a file server can do this any way it pleases.
the kernels are famous (or notorious) for not doing group permissions at all.

 - erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

On Fri Oct 31 14:10:52 EDT 2014, sdaoden@yandex.com wrote:
> erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>
>  |that thread's about p9p not plan 9, and i don't see the error \
>  |at hand in the output.
>
> Well i do see hints from Erik.  In that thread, that is.
> I consider that is.. something..

oh, yes.  i see now.  it follows directly from the fact that i commented
on the correct ratio of broken pencils to dried up pens, and on the dissertation "some
aspects of the ethoecology of richardson's ground squirrel" that the two
are directly related.

my bad.

;-)

seriously, the error is important.

- erik

p.s. did you  go 3rd person on me?  that's so meta.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
 |

 |on the dissertation "some
 |aspects of the ethoecology of richardson's ground squirrel" that the two
 |are directly related.

This becomes really interesting.  Squirrels.., these girls and
boys are really a kind of an occupying sort.  Almost addictive.
And emphatic.  That i can understand.  I've downloaded it.

Just a few weeks ago a disaster happened why i had a walk, a young
squirrel girl tried to hide behind a trunk and jumped off to
another tree once i started talking to her (i have seen such
hiding in a much, much better way before), but unfortunately not
taking into account the bending of the trunk at all, falling down
from four or five meters!  Luckily immediately stepping forward
and jumping on her target..  but damn, what a shock we both had.

 |
 |my bad.
 |;-)

If it were like that!!!
Afaik the american squirrel slowly dispels the (smaller) german
Eichhörnchen from the remains of the german forest!
And isn't it hard enough as it is???

Sorry for that unacademic point of view, i have a little "Arche"
in between the Autobahn and railroad tracks where i place some
food for birds, which attracts squirrels and mice too, and it is
ever so surprising how reflective and emphatic all the mentioned
species are.  (In an environment which practically has no more
healthy trees, but only dead and ill ones.)

 |seriously, the error is important.

Plan9 definetely requires will and desire in order to be used by
a normal end-user; but especially if something doesn't work right
out of the box.  Network configuration is really horrible for
fools like me, for example.  Someone should sit down and spend
a year working on that...  imho.

 |p.s. did you  go 3rd person on me?  that's so meta.

Me?  No.  After the first year, only ear tags were used for
permanent identification.

--steffen

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi again Y'all!

Sad to say I haven't been able to send a mail with any content more
than a . using Acme (desåite all the help I've received from you guys;
thanks by the way). It seems that the problem is the domain name. With
localhost.localdomain I get a mail through to the recipient but I get
error messages about unresolvable dns. I've tried several (even my ip)
but all fail in one way or another. I've been looking through the
documentation and the 9fans archive but I can't get a clear answer on
what to replace localhost.localdomain with. If anyone can enlighten me
in this matter I would be very grateful.

Kind Greetings,
Mats

2014-11-04 5:24 GMT+01:00, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>:
> On Fri Oct 31 14:10:52 EDT 2014, sdaoden@yandex.com wrote:
>> erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>>
>>  |that thread's about p9p not plan 9, and i don't see the error \
>>  |at hand in the output.
>>
>> Well i do see hints from Erik.  In that thread, that is.
>> I consider that is.. something..
>
> oh, yes.  i see now.  it follows directly from the fact that i commented
> on the correct ratio of broken pencils to dried up pens, and on the
> dissertation "some
> aspects of the ethoecology of richardson's ground squirrel" that the two
> are directly related.
>
> my bad.
>
> ;-)
>
> seriously, the error is important.
>
> - erik
>
> p.s. did you  go 3rd person on me?  that's so meta.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Anthony Sorace]

> I've been looking through the documentation and
> the 9fans archive but I can't get a clear answer on
> what to replace localhost.localdomain with.

If the recipient's mail server is being strict (but within
the bounds of the RFCs), that name is expected to be
the real, externally-resolvable DNS name of the
system you're sending from. The RFCs used to be more
lax on that point, and some servers still are, but you
shouldn't assume you'll be able to send to arbitrary
endpoints unless you satisfy that.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:
 |> I've been looking through the documentation and
 |> the 9fans archive but I can't get a clear answer on
 |> what to replace localhost.localdomain with.
 |
 |If the recipient's mail server is being strict (but within
 |the bounds of the RFCs), that name is expected to be
 |the real, externally-resolvable DNS name of the
 |system you're sending from. The RFCs used to be more
 |lax on that point, and some servers still are, but you
 |shouldn't assume you'll be able to send to arbitrary
 |endpoints unless you satisfy that.

gmail.com shouldn't care at all, so it must be his own SMTP server.
(All i know in respect to this is Yandex.(ru|com), which requires
that the hostname in the SMTP FROM:<> command _is_ a Yandex
address, i.e., _no mismatch_ with _who_ you claim to be, which is
why i had to invent a *smtp-hostname* variable for the mailer
i maintain in order to address the SMTP FROM:<> content directly:

  |?0[steffen@sherwood nail.git]$ echo bla|s-nail -vvdAsn_sf -s du test@bo.org
  |>>> EHLO yandex.com
  |>>> AUTH PLAIN
  |>>> ...
  |>>> MAIL FROM:<sdaoden@yandex.com>
  |>>> RCPT TO:<test@bo.org>
  |>>> DATA
  |>>> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 19:11:33 +0100
  |>>> From: sdaoden@users.sf.net (Steffen Nurpmeso)
  |>>> To: test@bo.org
  |>>> Subject: du
  |>>> Message-ID: <20141105181133.J3jtD1IU%sdaoden@yandex.com>
  |>>> User-Agent: s-nail v14.7.8-70-g9310369
  |>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
  |>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
  |>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
  |>>>
  |>>> bla
  |>>> .
  |>>> QUIT

  |?0[steffen@sherwood nail.git]$ echo bla|s-nail -vvdAsn_gm -s du test@bo.org
  |>>> EHLO gmail.com
  |>>> STARTTLS
  |>>> EHLO gmail.com
  |>>> AUTH PLAIN
  |>>> ...
  |>>> MAIL FROM:<sdaoden@gmail.com>
  |>>> RCPT TO:<test@bo.org>
  |>>> DATA
  |>>> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 19:11:45 +0100
  |>>> From: Steffen Nurpmeso <sdaoden@gmail.com>
  |>>> To: test@bo.org
  |>>> Subject: du
  |>>> Message-ID: <20141105181145.kUn5Nikj%sdaoden@gmail.com>
  |>>> User-Agent: s-nail v14.7.8-70-g9310369
  |>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
  |>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
  |>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
  |>>>
  |>>> bla
  |>>> .
  |>>> QUIT)

--steffen

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

And that could be obtained how?

2014-11-04 15:27 GMT+01:00, Steffen Nurpmeso <sdaoden@yandex.com>:
> erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>  |
>
>  |on the dissertation "some
>  |aspects of the ethoecology of richardson's ground squirrel" that the two
>  |are directly related.
>
> This becomes really interesting.  Squirrels.., these girls and
> boys are really a kind of an occupying sort.  Almost addictive.
> And emphatic.  That i can understand.  I've downloaded it.
>
> Just a few weeks ago a disaster happened why i had a walk, a young
> squirrel girl tried to hide behind a trunk and jumped off to
> another tree once i started talking to her (i have seen such
> hiding in a much, much better way before), but unfortunately not
> taking into account the bending of the trunk at all, falling down
> from four or five meters!  Luckily immediately stepping forward
> and jumping on her target..  but damn, what a shock we both had.
>
>  |
>  |my bad.
>  |;-)
>
> If it were like that!!!
> Afaik the american squirrel slowly dispels the (smaller) german
> Eichhörnchen from the remains of the german forest!
> And isn't it hard enough as it is???
>
> Sorry for that unacademic point of view, i have a little "Arche"
> in between the Autobahn and railroad tracks where i place some
> food for birds, which attracts squirrels and mice too, and it is
> ever so surprising how reflective and emphatic all the mentioned
> species are.  (In an environment which practically has no more
> healthy trees, but only dead and ill ones.)
>
>  |seriously, the error is important.
>
> Plan9 definetely requires will and desire in order to be used by
> a normal end-user; but especially if something doesn't work right
> out of the box.  Network configuration is really horrible for
> fools like me, for example.  Someone should sit down and spend
> a year working on that...  imho.
>
>  |p.s. did you  go 3rd person on me?  that's so meta.
>
> Me?  No.  After the first year, only ear tags were used for
> permanent identification.
>
> --steffen
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

I mean: How can I get the DNS name of my machine using Plan 9 on a
Raspberry Pi? I've tried the names I can come up with but nada. Please
help me out!!!


2014-11-05 19:21 GMT+01:00, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> And that could be obtained how?
>
> 2014-11-04 15:27 GMT+01:00, Steffen Nurpmeso <sdaoden@yandex.com>:
>> erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>>  |
>>
>>  |on the dissertation "some
>>  |aspects of the ethoecology of richardson's ground squirrel" that the
>> two
>>  |are directly related.
>>
>> This becomes really interesting.  Squirrels.., these girls and
>> boys are really a kind of an occupying sort.  Almost addictive.
>> And emphatic.  That i can understand.  I've downloaded it.
>>
>> Just a few weeks ago a disaster happened why i had a walk, a young
>> squirrel girl tried to hide behind a trunk and jumped off to
>> another tree once i started talking to her (i have seen such
>> hiding in a much, much better way before), but unfortunately not
>> taking into account the bending of the trunk at all, falling down
>> from four or five meters!  Luckily immediately stepping forward
>> and jumping on her target..  but damn, what a shock we both had.
>>
>>  |
>>  |my bad.
>>  |;-)
>>
>> If it were like that!!!
>> Afaik the american squirrel slowly dispels the (smaller) german
>> Eichhörnchen from the remains of the german forest!
>> And isn't it hard enough as it is???
>>
>> Sorry for that unacademic point of view, i have a little "Arche"
>> in between the Autobahn and railroad tracks where i place some
>> food for birds, which attracts squirrels and mice too, and it is
>> ever so surprising how reflective and emphatic all the mentioned
>> species are.  (In an environment which practically has no more
>> healthy trees, but only dead and ill ones.)
>>
>>  |seriously, the error is important.
>>
>> Plan9 definetely requires will and desire in order to be used by
>> a normal end-user; but especially if something doesn't work right
>> out of the box.  Network configuration is really horrible for
>> fools like me, for example.  Someone should sit down and spend
>> a year working on that...  imho.
>>
>>  |p.s. did you  go 3rd person on me?  that's so meta.
>>
>> Me?  No.  After the first year, only ear tags were used for
>> permanent identification.
>>
>> --steffen
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
 |And that could be obtained how?

A german squirrel?
?
Hm... you could try it...
:-))  (for nature.)

But unfortunately, in the modern world...  Most promising seems to
me driving-over by car.  And indeed equally shocking stories Erik's
father (i think he is) has to tell in his dissertation.
One female was also shot by a man.  I have forgotten his name.
All i had to say this man: [1].  Don't you miss _that_!

  [1] <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVWDNq558AM>

Ciao!

--steffen

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
 |I mean: How can I get the DNS name of my machine using Plan 9 on a
 |Raspberry Pi? I've tried the names I can come up with but nada. Please
 |help me out!!!

Well i have no idea what your problem is, sorry :)
Iirc from back in October you already contacted gmail.com, but the
authentication failed, right?  So DNS can't be the problem.  Kurt
H Maier followed the error link, as i did, too.  Try to change the
password to all lowercase ASCII letters and then see if it still
fails:  Maybe encoding via web interface and what gets passed from
within Plan9 is mixed up.  I did manage to setup a machine with an
8-bit password from within the nice installer and then found
myself being unable to log in because of the american keyboard
mapping which didn't produce the necessary keycode.

--steffen

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi again!

The password I have is one that would be just the same if typed on any
western keyboard. So I don't think that this is the problem. The mail
gets through to the recipient but it only contains the mailaddress and
a dot like . nothing more.

Kind greetings,
Mats

PS I gave up on gmail and I'm now trying to send an e-mail to a
Swedish address though from a gmail address DS

2014-11-05 19:38 GMT+01:00, Steffen Nurpmeso <sdaoden@yandex.com>:
> Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>  |I mean: How can I get the DNS name of my machine using Plan 9 on a
>  |Raspberry Pi? I've tried the names I can come up with but nada. Please
>  |help me out!!!
>
> Well i have no idea what your problem is, sorry :)
> Iirc from back in October you already contacted gmail.com, but the
> authentication failed, right?  So DNS can't be the problem.  Kurt
> H Maier followed the error link, as i did, too.  Try to change the
> password to all lowercase ASCII letters and then see if it still
> fails:  Maybe encoding via web interface and what gets passed from
> within Plan9 is mixed up.  I did manage to setup a machine with an
> 8-bit password from within the nice installer and then found
> myself being unable to log in because of the american keyboard
> mapping which didn't produce the necessary keycode.
>
> --steffen
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

On Wed Nov  5 13:20:02 EST 2014, sdaoden@yandex.com wrote:
> Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:
>  |> I've been looking through the documentation and
>  |> the 9fans archive but I can't get a clear answer on
>  |> what to replace localhost.localdomain with.
>  |
>  |If the recipient's mail server is being strict (but within
>  |the bounds of the RFCs), that name is expected to be
>  |the real, externally-resolvable DNS name of the
>  |system you're sending from. The RFCs used to be more
>  |lax on that point, and some servers still are, but you
>  |shouldn't assume you'll be able to send to arbitrary
>  |endpoints unless you satisfy that.
>
> gmail.com shouldn't care at all, so it must be his own SMTP server.
> (All i know in respect to this is Yandex.(ru|com), which requires
> that the hostname in the SMTP FROM:<> command _is_ a Yandex
> address, i.e., _no mismatch_ with _who_ you claim to be, which is

that's not what anthony claimed.  he said that if you say
	HELO example.com
that the following must be true
(a) dns return an a record for the query example.com, and
(b) the ip returned must have a ptr record pointing to example.com
(this is less enforced these days due to the difficulty of maintaining pointer
records.)

i think this is compatible with what you're saying.  this doesn't make
sense to me.  i don't do this:

> why i had to invent a *smtp-hostname* variable for the mailer
> i maintain in order to address the SMTP FROM:<> content directly:

perhaps you're conflating the envelope with the message?

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
 |On Wed Nov  5 13:20:02 EST 2014, sdaoden@yandex.com wrote:
 |> Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:
 |>|> I've been looking through the documentation and
 |>|> the 9fans archive but I can't get a clear answer on
 |>|> what to replace localhost.localdomain with.
 |>|
 |>|If the recipient's mail server is being strict (but within
 |>|the bounds of the RFCs), that name is expected to be
 |>|the real, externally-resolvable DNS name of the
 |>|system you're sending from. The RFCs used to be more
 |>|lax on that point, and some servers still are, but you
 |>|shouldn't assume you'll be able to send to arbitrary
 |>|endpoints unless you satisfy that.
 |> 
 |> gmail.com shouldn't care at all, so it must be his own SMTP server.
 |> (All i know in respect to this is Yandex.(ru|com), which requires
 |> that the hostname in the SMTP FROM:<> command _is_ a Yandex
 |> address, i.e., _no mismatch_ with _who_ you claim to be, which is
 |
 |that's not what anthony claimed.  he said that if you say
 | HELO example.com
 |that the following must be true
 |(a) dns return an a record for the query example.com, and

Yes -- i think (or say, i'm sure that) gmail.com doesn't take care
for that at all.  Neither does Yandex.  (Never tried any other
free mail provider, i think they all depend on user
authentication.)

 |(b) the ip returned must have a ptr record pointing to example.com
 |(this is less enforced these days due to the difficulty of \
 |maintaining pointer
 |records.)

..So reverse lookups don't even come into play here.
I'm no longer sure wether old-school really hates not to be able
to perform sender verification via DNS, today a lot of pretty
prominent people use those providers themselve.

 |i think this is compatible with what you're saying.  this doesn't make
 |sense to me.  i don't do this:
 |
 |> why i had to invent a *smtp-hostname* variable for the mailer
 |> i maintain in order to address the SMTP FROM:<> content directly:
 |
 |perhaps you're conflating the envelope with the message?

Puh Erik, maybe -- you know, i'm a boche :)
Flying over an official document is the maximum i can handle, just
enough to hammer the most important facts into some long-time
cells, so please excuse possible distortion of terms.
Indeed, looking into RFC 5321 (i have it even in my arena):

   o  The domain name given in the EHLO command MUST be either a primary
      host name (a domain name that resolves to an address RR) or, if
      the host has no name, an address literal, as described in
      Section 4.1.3 and discussed further in the EHLO discussion of
      Section 4.1.4.

   o  The reserved mailbox name "postmaster" may be used in a RCPT
      command without domain qualification (see Section 4.1.1.3) and
      MUST be accepted if so used.

So huch!  SMTP communication how it actually happens in between me
and the public mail providers is invalid, evil and yuck.
I think i just wanted to add some value to what Anthony said.

Regarding *smtp-hostname*: i think one cannot expect from what
i call a normal user to understand just about anything regarding
any protocol etc. internals -- for no other reasons but missing
context information and maybe add lack of interest.  In fact, like
i said above, the same is true for me.  Given that this BSD Mail
derivative already has a variable called *hostname*, and that BSD
/ Linux systems have a hostname(1) command (even though POSIX only
specifies uname(1) and documents "the name of this node within an
implementation-defined communications network"; but POSIX.. well)
i decided to name the capability to overwrite the hostname that is
used in the SMTP "MAIL FROM:<>" command *smtp-hostname* (but not
that the manual is really user friendly sofar).

So now i'm stuck with it.  But since Matt uses Google the address
used in "MAIL FROM:<>" cannot be the problem anyway, since Google
doesn't care wether the addresses in the messages' From: header
and the SMTP "MAIL FROM:<>" command match or not (the last time
i tried; i admit that the Google message i've posted doesn't
really make sense in this context; oops..).

--steffen

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi again!

The DNS problem only occurs when I try to send from the gmail account
I'm using now to the Swedish domain: "spray.se". An empty message
comes through ending with a dot . and that's it. Thanks for all your
effort to help me out!

Kind Greetings,
Mats

2014-11-06 20:12 GMT+01:00, Steffen Nurpmeso <sdaoden@yandex.com>:
> erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>  |On Wed Nov  5 13:20:02 EST 2014, sdaoden@yandex.com wrote:
>  |> Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:
>  |>|> I've been looking through the documentation and
>  |>|> the 9fans archive but I can't get a clear answer on
>  |>|> what to replace localhost.localdomain with.
>  |>|
>  |>|If the recipient's mail server is being strict (but within
>  |>|the bounds of the RFCs), that name is expected to be
>  |>|the real, externally-resolvable DNS name of the
>  |>|system you're sending from. The RFCs used to be more
>  |>|lax on that point, and some servers still are, but you
>  |>|shouldn't assume you'll be able to send to arbitrary
>  |>|endpoints unless you satisfy that.
>  |>
>  |> gmail.com shouldn't care at all, so it must be his own SMTP server.
>  |> (All i know in respect to this is Yandex.(ru|com), which requires
>  |> that the hostname in the SMTP FROM:<> command _is_ a Yandex
>  |> address, i.e., _no mismatch_ with _who_ you claim to be, which is
>  |
>  |that's not what anthony claimed.  he said that if you say
>  | HELO example.com
>  |that the following must be true
>  |(a) dns return an a record for the query example.com, and
>
> Yes -- i think (or say, i'm sure that) gmail.com doesn't take care
> for that at all.  Neither does Yandex.  (Never tried any other
> free mail provider, i think they all depend on user
> authentication.)
>
>  |(b) the ip returned must have a ptr record pointing to example.com
>  |(this is less enforced these days due to the difficulty of \
>  |maintaining pointer
>  |records.)
>
> ..So reverse lookups don't even come into play here.
> I'm no longer sure wether old-school really hates not to be able
> to perform sender verification via DNS, today a lot of pretty
> prominent people use those providers themselve.
>
>  |i think this is compatible with what you're saying.  this doesn't make
>  |sense to me.  i don't do this:
>  |
>  |> why i had to invent a *smtp-hostname* variable for the mailer
>  |> i maintain in order to address the SMTP FROM:<> content directly:
>  |
>  |perhaps you're conflating the envelope with the message?
>
> Puh Erik, maybe -- you know, i'm a boche :)
> Flying over an official document is the maximum i can handle, just
> enough to hammer the most important facts into some long-time
> cells, so please excuse possible distortion of terms.
> Indeed, looking into RFC 5321 (i have it even in my arena):
>
>    o  The domain name given in the EHLO command MUST be either a primary
>       host name (a domain name that resolves to an address RR) or, if
>       the host has no name, an address literal, as described in
>       Section 4.1.3 and discussed further in the EHLO discussion of
>       Section 4.1.4.
>
>    o  The reserved mailbox name "postmaster" may be used in a RCPT
>       command without domain qualification (see Section 4.1.1.3) and
>       MUST be accepted if so used.
>
> So huch!  SMTP communication how it actually happens in between me
> and the public mail providers is invalid, evil and yuck.
> I think i just wanted to add some value to what Anthony said.
>
> Regarding *smtp-hostname*: i think one cannot expect from what
> i call a normal user to understand just about anything regarding
> any protocol etc. internals -- for no other reasons but missing
> context information and maybe add lack of interest.  In fact, like
> i said above, the same is true for me.  Given that this BSD Mail
> derivative already has a variable called *hostname*, and that BSD
> / Linux systems have a hostname(1) command (even though POSIX only
> specifies uname(1) and documents "the name of this node within an
> implementation-defined communications network"; but POSIX.. well)
> i decided to name the capability to overwrite the hostname that is
> used in the SMTP "MAIL FROM:<>" command *smtp-hostname* (but not
> that the manual is really user friendly sofar).
>
> So now i'm stuck with it.  But since Matt uses Google the address
> used in "MAIL FROM:<>" cannot be the problem anyway, since Google
> doesn't care wether the addresses in the messages' From: header
> and the SMTP "MAIL FROM:<>" command match or not (the last time
> i tried; i admit that the Google message i've posted doesn't
> really make sense in this context; oops..).
>
> --steffen
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

I've deleted fortune now so it doesn't confuse or distract me.

2014-10-23 23:03 GMT+02:00, Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com>:
> Well, to clarify, in the old days, if a Windows function call failed, you'd
> call GetLastError to get a numerical error code, and FormatMessage to get a
> string describing the error, So if the error code was 0, meaning that the
> windows call succeeded, FormatMessage would return "The operation completed
> successfully." Obviously that's completely stupid.
>
> On 24 October 2014 09:45, Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Now I'm even more confused than normal. "cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov:
>> The operation completed successfully."
>>
>> This is a Windows error message?
>>
>> On 23 October 2014 09:04, Quintile <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I fear a gnu style recursive definition coming on...
>>>
>>> -Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 19:14, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> i think this situation is more fortune-worthy than the fortune that
>>> caused it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I kind of had a feeling it was that way because when installing again
>>>> on another card, I got another message with this: If you think out
>>>> loud you're about to get a lot of ememies; as the bottom line (don't
>>>> remember the exact words).
>>>>
>>>> 2014-10-22 17:12 GMT+02:00, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
>>>> > Quoting Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 22 October 2014 15:34, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>  cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed
>>>> successfully.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> this exact error message is in the fortunes file.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> oh well, that explains that: obviously the rio start-up on the pi
>>>> >> runs
>>>> >> fortunes, to aid debugging.
>>>> >
>>>> > That is precisely what is happening.  The startup script Steve Simon
>>>> sent
>>>> > runs his logwin script, which looks like this:
>>>> >
>>>> > #!/bin/rc
>>>> >
>>>> > fortune
>>>> > calendar -y
>>>> > news
>>>> > echo
>>>> >
>>>> > exec rc -i
>>>> >
>>>> > ...now compare Mats' output:
>>>> >
>>>> > cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed
>>>> > successfully.
>>>> > calendar: can't open /usr/glenda/lib/calendar:
>>>> > '/usr/glenda/lib/calendar' does not exist
>>>> >
>>>> > khm
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Winston Kodogo]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2401 bytes --]

Well, to clarify, in the old days, if a Windows function call failed, you'd
call GetLastError to get a numerical error code, and FormatMessage to get a
string describing the error, So if the error code was 0, meaning that the
windows call succeeded, FormatMessage would return "The operation completed
successfully." Obviously that's completely stupid.

On 24 October 2014 09:45, Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Now I'm even more confused than normal. "cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov:
> The operation completed successfully."
>
> This is a Windows error message?
>
> On 23 October 2014 09:04, Quintile <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>
>> I fear a gnu style recursive definition coming on...
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 19:14, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> i think this situation is more fortune-worthy than the fortune that
>> caused it.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I kind of had a feeling it was that way because when installing again
>>> on another card, I got another message with this: If you think out
>>> loud you're about to get a lot of ememies; as the bottom line (don't
>>> remember the exact words).
>>>
>>> 2014-10-22 17:12 GMT+02:00, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
>>> > Quoting Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
>>> >
>>> >> On 22 October 2014 15:34, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>  cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed
>>> successfully.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> this exact error message is in the fortunes file.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> oh well, that explains that: obviously the rio start-up on the pi runs
>>> >> fortunes, to aid debugging.
>>> >
>>> > That is precisely what is happening.  The startup script Steve Simon
>>> sent
>>> > runs his logwin script, which looks like this:
>>> >
>>> > #!/bin/rc
>>> >
>>> > fortune
>>> > calendar -y
>>> > news
>>> > echo
>>> >
>>> > exec rc -i
>>> >
>>> > ...now compare Mats' output:
>>> >
>>> > cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
>>> > calendar: can't open /usr/glenda/lib/calendar:
>>> > '/usr/glenda/lib/calendar' does not exist
>>> >
>>> > khm
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4557 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Charles Forsyth]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2079 bytes --]

It was actually the output of fortune.
On 23 Oct 2014 21:47, "Winston Kodogo" <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Now I'm even more confused than normal. "cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov:
> The operation completed successfully."
>
> This is a Windows error message?
>
> On 23 October 2014 09:04, Quintile <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
>
>> I fear a gnu style recursive definition coming on...
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 19:14, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> i think this situation is more fortune-worthy than the fortune that
>> caused it.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I kind of had a feeling it was that way because when installing again
>>> on another card, I got another message with this: If you think out
>>> loud you're about to get a lot of ememies; as the bottom line (don't
>>> remember the exact words).
>>>
>>> 2014-10-22 17:12 GMT+02:00, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
>>> > Quoting Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
>>> >
>>> >> On 22 October 2014 15:34, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>  cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed
>>> successfully.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> this exact error message is in the fortunes file.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> oh well, that explains that: obviously the rio start-up on the pi runs
>>> >> fortunes, to aid debugging.
>>> >
>>> > That is precisely what is happening.  The startup script Steve Simon
>>> sent
>>> > runs his logwin script, which looks like this:
>>> >
>>> > #!/bin/rc
>>> >
>>> > fortune
>>> > calendar -y
>>> > news
>>> > echo
>>> >
>>> > exec rc -i
>>> >
>>> > ...now compare Mats' output:
>>> >
>>> > cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
>>> > calendar: can't open /usr/glenda/lib/calendar:
>>> > '/usr/glenda/lib/calendar' does not exist
>>> >
>>> > khm
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Winston Kodogo]

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Now I'm even more confused than normal. "cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov:
The operation completed successfully."

This is a Windows error message?

On 23 October 2014 09:04, Quintile <steve@quintile.net> wrote:

> I fear a gnu style recursive definition coming on...
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> On 22 Oct 2014, at 19:14, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> i think this situation is more fortune-worthy than the fortune that caused
> it.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I kind of had a feeling it was that way because when installing again
>> on another card, I got another message with this: If you think out
>> loud you're about to get a lot of ememies; as the bottom line (don't
>> remember the exact words).
>>
>> 2014-10-22 17:12 GMT+02:00, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
>> > Quoting Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
>> >
>> >> On 22 October 2014 15:34, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>  cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed
>> successfully.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> this exact error message is in the fortunes file.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> oh well, that explains that: obviously the rio start-up on the pi runs
>> >> fortunes, to aid debugging.
>> >
>> > That is precisely what is happening.  The startup script Steve Simon
>> sent
>> > runs his logwin script, which looks like this:
>> >
>> > #!/bin/rc
>> >
>> > fortune
>> > calendar -y
>> > news
>> > echo
>> >
>> > exec rc -i
>> >
>> > ...now compare Mats' output:
>> >
>> > cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
>> > calendar: can't open /usr/glenda/lib/calendar:
>> > '/usr/glenda/lib/calendar' does not exist
>> >
>> > khm
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Quintile]

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I fear a gnu style recursive definition coming on...

-Steve





> On 22 Oct 2014, at 19:14, Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> i think this situation is more fortune-worthy than the fortune that caused it.
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I kind of had a feeling it was that way because when installing again
>> on another card, I got another message with this: If you think out
>> loud you're about to get a lot of ememies; as the bottom line (don't
>> remember the exact words).
>> 
>> 2014-10-22 17:12 GMT+02:00, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
>> > Quoting Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
>> >
>> >> On 22 October 2014 15:34, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>  cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> this exact error message is in the fortunes file.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> oh well, that explains that: obviously the rio start-up on the pi runs
>> >> fortunes, to aid debugging.
>> >
>> > That is precisely what is happening.  The startup script Steve Simon sent
>> > runs his logwin script, which looks like this:
>> >
>> > #!/bin/rc
>> >
>> > fortune
>> > calendar -y
>> > news
>> > echo
>> >
>> > exec rc -i
>> >
>> > ...now compare Mats' output:
>> >
>> > cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
>> > calendar: can't open /usr/glenda/lib/calendar:
>> > '/usr/glenda/lib/calendar' does not exist
>> >
>> > khm
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
> 

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Skip Tavakkolian]

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i think this situation is more fortune-worthy than the fortune that caused
it.


On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:

> I kind of had a feeling it was that way because when installing again
> on another card, I got another message with this: If you think out
> loud you're about to get a lot of ememies; as the bottom line (don't
> remember the exact words).
>
> 2014-10-22 17:12 GMT+02:00, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
> > Quoting Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
> >
> >> On 22 October 2014 15:34, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed
> successfully.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> this exact error message is in the fortunes file.
> >>
> >>
> >> oh well, that explains that: obviously the rio start-up on the pi runs
> >> fortunes, to aid debugging.
> >
> > That is precisely what is happening.  The startup script Steve Simon sent
> > runs his logwin script, which looks like this:
> >
> > #!/bin/rc
> >
> > fortune
> > calendar -y
> > news
> > echo
> >
> > exec rc -i
> >
> > ...now compare Mats' output:
> >
> > cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
> > calendar: can't open /usr/glenda/lib/calendar:
> > '/usr/glenda/lib/calendar' does not exist
> >
> > khm
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

I kind of had a feeling it was that way because when installing again
on another card, I got another message with this: If you think out
loud you're about to get a lot of ememies; as the bottom line (don't
remember the exact words).

2014-10-22 17:12 GMT+02:00, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:
> Quoting Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
>
>> On 22 October 2014 15:34, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>
>>>  cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
>>>>
>>>
>>> this exact error message is in the fortunes file.
>>
>>
>> oh well, that explains that: obviously the rio start-up on the pi runs
>> fortunes, to aid debugging.
>
> That is precisely what is happening.  The startup script Steve Simon sent
> runs his logwin script, which looks like this:
>
> #!/bin/rc
>
> fortune
> calendar -y
> news
> echo
>
> exec rc -i
>
> ...now compare Mats' output:
>
> cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
> calendar: can't open /usr/glenda/lib/calendar:
> '/usr/glenda/lib/calendar' does not exist
>
> khm
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Kurt H Maier]

Quoting Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:

> On 22 October 2014 15:34, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
>
>> Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>>  cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
>>>
>>
>> this exact error message is in the fortunes file.
>
>
> oh well, that explains that: obviously the rio start-up on the pi runs
> fortunes, to aid debugging.

That is precisely what is happening.  The startup script Steve Simon sent
runs his logwin script, which looks like this:

#!/bin/rc

fortune
calendar -y
news
echo

exec rc -i

...now compare Mats' output:

cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
calendar: can't open /usr/glenda/lib/calendar:
'/usr/glenda/lib/calendar' does not exist

khm

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Charles Forsyth]

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On 22 October 2014 15:34, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:

> Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:
>
>
>  cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
>>
>
> this exact error message is in the fortunes file.


oh well, that explains that: obviously the rio start-up on the pi runs
fortunes, to aid debugging.

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Kurt H Maier]

Quoting Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com>:


> cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.

this exact error message is in the fortunes file.

khm

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

That makes two of us.

2014-10-22 15:29 GMT+02:00, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
> On 22 October 2014 13:24, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Don't kill the messenger!
>
>
> No, not at all! I couldn't work out what you could be running to cause
> that.
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Charles Forsyth]

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On 22 October 2014 13:24, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't kill the messenger!


No, not at all! I couldn't work out what you could be running to cause that.

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steve Simon]

> cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.

You using cinap's cpud for windows?


> calendar: can't open /usr/glenda/lib/calendar: '/usr/glenda/lib/calendar' does not exist

You just need to create it.

	touch /usr/glenda/lib/calendar

see calendar(1)

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Don't kill the messenger!

2014-10-22 12:35 GMT+02:00, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
> On 22 October 2014 11:32, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> That "The operation completed successfully" is not a native Plan 9
>> message, surely?
>> It looks like a Linux message. And it's stupid.
>>
>
> My mistake: it's a Windows error. Is it someone's new value for Egreg?
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Charles Forsyth]

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On 22 October 2014 11:32, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote:

> That "The operation completed successfully" is not a native Plan 9
> message, surely?
> It looks like a Linux message. And it's stupid.
>

My mistake: it's a Windows error. Is it someone's new value for Egreg?

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Charles Forsyth]

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On 22 October 2014 10:06, Mats Olsson <plan9.meo@gmail.com> wrote:

> cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
>

That "The operation completed successfully" is not a native Plan 9 message,
surely?
It looks like a Linux message. And it's stupid.

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Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Steve!

Thanks a lot! Now auth/fgui is running from start. But I got some
error messages though. The shell window that came up looked like this:

cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
calendar: can't open /usr/glenda/lib/calendar:
'/usr/glenda/lib/calendar' does not exist

term %

Warmest greetings,
Mats

2014-10-21 14:58 GMT+02:00, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net>:
> Hi,
>
> Definitely not a raspberry pi thing.
>
> I use a raspberry pi at home as a terminal and start auth/fgui from my
> startup script just as you are retuing to do.
>
>
> Try replicating my environment:
>
> Attached are my scripts:
> 	startup  - what I call riostart
> 	logwin  - starts first terminal window
>
> put these scripts into $home/bin/rc and chmod them to 755
> to make them executable.
>
> I have this line in my $home/lib/profile where it starts rio:
> 	exec rio -s -i startup
>
> To test this you can open a window in rio and type
>
> 	exec rio -s -i startup
>
> and you will get a child rio in this window.
>
> fgui will be running but hidden until its needed,
> you can manually unhide it but it doesn't refresh its window
> until it wants to prompt the user so its just a blank window
>
> To see fgui just select it from the menu on B3 of the mouse.
>
> you should also get stats, faces, and a clock.
>
> you probably won't get a radio as the PI doesn't have an audio driver
> by default yet and you would need to install my radio tuner package
> first anyway.
>
> -Steve

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steve Simon]

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Hi,

Definitely not a raspberry pi thing.

I use a raspberry pi at home as a terminal and start auth/fgui from my
startup script just as you are retuing to do.


Try replicating my environment:

Attached are my scripts:
	startup  - what I call riostart
	logwin  - starts first terminal window

put these scripts into $home/bin/rc and chmod them to 755
to make them executable.

I have this line in my $home/lib/profile where it starts rio:
	exec rio -s -i startup

To test this you can open a window in rio and type

	exec rio -s -i startup

and you will get a child rio in this window.

fgui will be running but hidden until its needed,
you can manually unhide it but it doesn't refresh its window
until it wants to prompt the user so its just a blank window

To see fgui just select it from the menu on B3 of the mouse.

you should also get stats, faces, and a clock.

you probably won't get a radio as the PI doesn't have an audio driver
by default yet and you would need to install my radio tuner package
first anyway.

-Steve

[-- Attachment #2: startup --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 849 bytes --]

#!/bin/rc

rfork e

scr=(`{cat /dev/draw/new >[2]/dev/null || status=''})

height=$scr(12)
y1=`{echo 'int(' $height '*' 0.12 ')' | hoc}
y2=`{echo 'int(' $height '*' 0.3 ')' | hoc}
y3=`{echo 'int(' $height '*' 0.7 ')' | hoc}

width=$scr(11)
x1=`{echo 'int(' $width '*' 0.1 ')' | hoc}

x2=`{echo $x1 + 1 | hoc}
x3=`{echo 'int(' $x2 + '(' $width '*' 0.5 '))' | hoc}

x4=`{echo $x3 + 1 | hoc}
x6=`{echo $width - $y1 | hoc}
x5=`{echo $x6 - 1 | hoc}
x7=`{echo $width - 1 | hoc}

if(~ $service terminal)
	auth/fgui &

if(~ $service terminal && ! ~ $#cpu 0)
	window -r 0 0 $x1 $y1 stats -lmei $sysname $cpu
if not
	window -r 0 0 $x1 $y1 stats -lmei

window -r $x2 0 $x3 $y1 faces -i

if(cat /dev/volume >[2] /dev/null)
	window -r $x4 0 $x5 $y1 audio/tuner

window -r $x6 0 $x7 $y1 clock

window -r $x2 $y2 $x3 $y3 logwin

[-- Attachment #3: logwin --]
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#!/bin/rc

fortune
calendar -y
news
echo

exec rc -i