From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <46E7EE42925499BF1B9558D2423340AA@eigenstate.org> <20190403132308.40f40cabe3c1388582669299@eigenstate.org> <20190403182228.09444137cdcf315f19033528@eigenstate.org> In-Reply-To: From: Chris McGee Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 11:10:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008215c00586930ca2" Subject: Re: [9fans] UI design | enhancements. Topicbox-Message-UUID: fa2a2c86-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --0000000000008215c00586930ca2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Darren, Your goal seem to be to make the system less daunting for new users. I think there are a number of ways to accomplish this. Dressing up the UI and/or making it more like popular used interfaces might be one way to make new users feel more comfortable. One concern with doing this is that it allows them to come with other assumptions that may confusions about how the underlying system works. This effort could also increase complexity and size of the core system. Simplicity, size and consistency are aspects of Plan 9 that I really value. Otherwise, I might as well just use BSD or even Linux. In my experience one of the biggest hurdles to getting curious new users to give Plan 9 a try is just getting access to a namespace so that they can give it a try and learn. I think that the quickest path at the moment is to install it onto a VM like qemu (or yuck, virtualbox) since you can bypass the whole hardware selection and compatibility pain points. I put some YouTube videos up showing people step-by-step with a decent number of views and comments, so I think this helped some people just to get their hands on it. There are more ideas that I'm playing with to help people get started, such as building a website where you can get a drawterm in your web browser and give it a try. Once a new user has access to the system there could be some exercises and tutorials to engage them. There could be a variety of these depending on the background, whether programmer, Linux user, librarian, whatever. The key in my opinion is to not hide the core system with layer after layer of "pretty" GUI's, but instead reveal it gradually with decent explanations. I think that the core of Plan 9 is much easier to explain than other systems because of its smaller size, relatively consistent interfaces and versatility. Once you grasp one area it is much easier to begin grasping more of it using the skills you already have. I can't say the same thing about Linux or any other system that I have used. Like any tool, there is some required learning and practice. Good tools amplify your learning as you practice with it. Once someone understands how Plan 9 works then I think they will have many of the tools that they need to build their own networks with it. I recommend digging into man pages and /sys/doc at this stage. There's a wealth of well written guides in there, although some could be made a bit more current. A guide on how to build a home network using raspberry pi terminals and a CPU/file server from easy to acquire, but well designed, modern hardware would be a welcome addition. The system is far from perfect as others will tell you but there's advances and fixes happening steadily. I'm just not sure if focusing on the initial user experience through UI look and feel is adding much. I think a more general discussion of GUI capabilities, such as video and 3D graphics capabilities, would be great, but more in the context of what kinds of tasks people want to accomplish. The trick is to fit those improvements into the rest of the system and not just jamming them in. Cheers, Chris --0000000000008215c00586930ca2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Darren,

Yo= ur goal seem to be to make the system less daunting for new users. I think = there are a number of ways to accomplish this.

Dre= ssing up the UI and/or making it more like popular used interfaces might be= one way to make new users feel more comfortable. One concern with doing th= is is that it allows them to come with other assumptions that may confusion= s about how the underlying system works. This effort could also increase co= mplexity and size of the core system. Simplicity, size and consistency are = aspects of Plan 9 that I really value. Otherwise, I might as well just use = BSD or even Linux.

In my experience one of the= biggest hurdles to getting curious new users to give Plan 9 a try is just = getting access to a namespace so that they can give it a try and learn. I t= hink that the quickest path at the moment is to install it onto a VM like q= emu (or yuck, virtualbox) since you can bypass the whole hardware selection= and compatibility pain points. I put some YouTube videos up showing people= step-by-step with a decent number of views and comments, so I think this h= elped some people just to get their hands on it. There are more ideas that = I'm playing with to help people get started, such as building a website= where you can get a drawterm in your web browser and give it a try.

Once a new user has access to the system there could= be some exercises and tutorials to engage them. There could be a variety o= f these depending on the background, whether programmer, Linux user, librar= ian, whatever. The key in my opinion is to not hide the core system with la= yer after layer of "pretty" GUI's, but instead reveal it grad= ually with decent explanations. I think that the core of Plan 9 is much eas= ier to explain than other systems because of its smaller size, relatively c= onsistent interfaces and versatility. Once you grasp one area it is much ea= sier to begin grasping more of it using the skills you already have. I can&= #39;t say the same thing about Linux or any other system that I have used. = Like any tool, there is some required learning and practice. Good tools amp= lify your learning as you practice with it.

On= ce someone understands how Plan 9 works then I think they will have many of= the tools that they need to build their own networks with it. I recommend = digging into man pages and /sys/doc at this stage. There's a wealth of = well written guides in there, although some could be made a bit more curren= t. A guide on how to build a home network using raspberry pi terminals and = a CPU/file server from easy to acquire, but well designed, modern hardware = would be a welcome addition.

The system is far= from perfect as others will tell you but there's advances and fixes ha= ppening steadily. I'm just not sure if focusing on the initial user exp= erience through UI look and feel is adding much. I think a more general dis= cussion of GUI capabilities, such as video and 3D graphics capabilities, wo= uld be great, but more in the context of what kinds of tasks people want to= accomplish. The trick is to fit those improvements into the rest of the sy= stem and not just jamming them in.

Cheers,
Chris
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