From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 To: 9fans@9fans.net From: christophe DAMAS Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 18:30:30 +0000 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Loom/3.14 (http://gmane.org/) Subject: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 900755cc-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 Hello Trying acme on 9front. Got the following problem : the cd command in an acme shell window doesn't refresh the directory context of this windows, then right click on a file or directory name doesn't open the file. On other implentations I use (windows Acme-SAC, OSX plan9port, and plan9 on Pi) it works fine. On plan9port the same problem happens with bash shell in acme windows, but not with rc shell. Can't figure out where is the problem on 9front ? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 20:40:03 +0200 Message-ID: From: Siarhei Zirukin To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114a5dde65bb670533364da2 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 900f4110-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --001a114a5dde65bb670533364da2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Acme is deprecated. We no longer support it. Please consider upgrading to sam instead. On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 8:30 PM, christophe DAMAS < christophe.damas@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello > > Trying acme on 9front. Got the following problem : the cd command in > an acme shell window doesn't refresh the directory context of this > windows, then right click on a file or directory name doesn't open the > file. > > On other implentations I use (windows Acme-SAC, OSX plan9port, and > plan9 on Pi) it works fine. > > On plan9port the same problem happens with bash shell in acme windows, > but not with rc shell. > > Can't figure out where is the problem on 9front ? > > > --001a114a5dde65bb670533364da2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Acme is deprecated. We no longer support it. Please consid= er upgrading to sam instead.

On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 8:30 PM, christophe DAMAS <christophe.damas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello

Trying acme on 9front. Got the following problem : the cd command in
an acme shell window doesn't refresh the directory context of this
windows, then right click on a file or directory name doesn't open the<= br> file.

On other implentations I use (windows Acme-SAC, OSX plan9port, and
plan9 on Pi) it works fine.

On plan9port the same problem happens with bash shell in acme windows,
but not with rc shell.

Can't figure out where is the problem on 9front ?



--001a114a5dde65bb670533364da2-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 20:41:45 +0200 From: cinap_lenrek@felloff.net To: 9fans@9fans.net In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90145ce0-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 to be less cryptic, to have the acme working directory update on cd, you can put the following code in your $home/lib/profile fn cd { builtin cd $* && awd } # for acme the difference to labs and 9font is just that we dont have that thing in our default profiles, because we'r mostly sam users. -- cinap From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mark Lee Smith Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 19:20:34 +0000 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1148f70ed90407053336de89 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9029c1b6-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --001a1148f70ed90407053336de89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hopefully without stepping into any religious matters, why do you (9front) favor Sam so much? As I understand it Acme came after Sam, and Acme exposes Sams edit language through the Edit command, as well as providing "window" management, the ability to run a terminal inside, and exposing a file system for control by scripts etc. It seems like a solid improvement on Sam, which is itself a very nice text editor. All the best, Mark On Thu, 19 May 2016 at 20:43 wrote: > to be less cryptic, to have the acme working directory update on cd, > you can put the following code in your $home/lib/profile > > fn cd { builtin cd $* && awd } # for acme > > the difference to labs and 9font is just that we dont have that thing > in our default profiles, because we'r mostly sam users. > > -- > cinap > > --001a1148f70ed90407053336de89 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hopefully without stepping into any religious matters, why= do you (9front) favor Sam so much? As I understand it Acme came after Sam,= and Acme exposes Sams edit language through the Edit command, as well as p= roviding "window" management, the ability to run a terminal insid= e, and exposing a file system for control by scripts etc. It seems like a s= olid improvement on Sam, which is itself a very nice text editor.

<= /div>
All the best,

Mark

On Thu, 19 May 2016 at 20:43 <cinap_lenrek@felloff.net> wr= ote:
to be less cryptic, to have th= e acme working directory update on cd,
you can put the following code in your $home/lib/profile

fn cd { builtin cd $* && awd }=C2=A0 # for acme

the difference to labs and 9font is just that we dont have that thing
in our default profiles, because we'r mostly sam users.

--
cinap

--001a1148f70ed90407053336de89-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <831525f14c2c935ceefc3e731d09e0ce@felloff.net> Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 21:36:56 +0200 From: cinap_lenrek@felloff.net To: 9fans@9fans.net In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9033535c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 mark, why do you explain acme to me? -- cinap From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 20:42:54 +0100 Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d95c52d8d0f0533372ed0 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9039e5b4-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --047d7b5d95c52d8d0f0533372ed0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 19 May 2016 at 19:40, Siarhei Zirukin wrote: > Please consider upgrading to sam instead. > Any experienced acme user will quickly start banging the desk in frustration if thrown back into sam. Incredibly clumsy by comparison; not fluid. sam -d is useful for certain types of scripting. --047d7b5d95c52d8d0f0533372ed0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On 19 May 2016 at 19:40, Siarhei Zirukin <ftrvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:
Please consi= der upgrading to sam instead.

An= y experienced acme user will quickly start banging the desk in frustration = if thrown back into sam.
Incredibly clumsy = by comparison; not fluid. sam -d is useful for certain types of scripting.<= /div>
--047d7b5d95c52d8d0f0533372ed0-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: stanley lieber Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 16:11:37 -0400 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9040249c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 It seems likely that anyone subscribed to this list is capable of making an= informed decision about which text editor they prefer to use=2E That said, acme makes a certain style of interaction easier at the cost of= stepping all over the rest of the (Plan 9) system=2E Some people just don'= t like the subtly incompatible duplication of functionality=2E On a UNIX system, acme provides facilities that are otherwise clumsy to wo= rk with or flat out unavailable=2E sl From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 21:15:02 +0100 Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1148fd2813355b053337a1e6 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9046bd20-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --001a1148fd2813355b053337a1e6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 19 May 2016 at 21:11, stanley lieber wrote: > at the cost of stepping all over the rest of the (Plan 9) system ? --001a1148fd2813355b053337a1e6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On 19 May 2016 at 21:11, stanley lieber <sl@9front.org> wrote:
at the cost of stepping all over the rest = of the (Plan 9) system

?
--001a1148fd2813355b053337a1e6-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <831525f14c2c935ceefc3e731d09e0ce@felloff.net> In-Reply-To: <831525f14c2c935ceefc3e731d09e0ce@felloff.net> From: Mark Lee Smith Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 20:26:52 +0000 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b66f4b9f75703053337cb1a Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 904caadc-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --047d7b66f4b9f75703053337cb1a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm was merely explaining my understanding of the context so that I could be corrected if I was wrong on any point. I didn't mean to explain Acme to you. While I replied to you (I believe I did), please understand my question in the light of the thread, as it were, a whole. Thanks, everyone, for the answers! On Thu, 19 May 2016 at 21:38 wrote: > mark, why do you explain acme to me? > > -- > cinap > > --047d7b66f4b9f75703053337cb1a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm was merely explaining my understanding of the cont= ext so that I could be corrected if I was wrong on any point. I didn't = mean to explain Acme to you. While I replied to you (I believe I did), plea= se understand my question in the light of the thread, as it were, a whole.<= div>
Thanks, everyone, for the answers!

On Thu, 19 May 2016 at 21:38 <cinap_lenrek@felloff.net> = wrote:
mark, why do you explain acm= e to me?

--
cinap

--047d7b66f4b9f75703053337cb1a-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <831525f14c2c935ceefc3e731d09e0ce@felloff.net> Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 16:37:43 -0400 Message-ID: From: Lee Fallat To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9061b8a0-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 >>From experience, Sam's command window provides a more consistent experience with the rest of the system. Acme on the other hand pretends to have individual command windows (more like command lines) for every file open. Sam has some form of "tiling", but not as automatic as Acme. Sam also has a remote editing protocol, unlike Acme. I liked Sam not only for those reasons, but also because of what Charles said - you can script Sam with sam -d, allowing it to integrate into other parts of the system. It's too bad there has not been a clean rewrite of Sam, like Rob has mentioned in his paper. On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Mark Lee Smith wrote: > I'm was merely explaining my understanding of the context so that I could be > corrected if I was wrong on any point. I didn't mean to explain Acme to you. > While I replied to you (I believe I did), please understand my question in > the light of the thread, as it were, a whole. > > Thanks, everyone, for the answers! > > > On Thu, 19 May 2016 at 21:38 wrote: >> >> mark, why do you explain acme to me? >> >> -- >> cinap >> > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <831525f14c2c935ceefc3e731d09e0ce@felloff.net> From: =?UTF-8?B?QXJhbSBIxIN2xINybmVhbnU=?= Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 22:40:10 +0200 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90682df2-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 One day I will write a samterm that works like acme. I mostly use acme, but sometimes on Unix I have to use sam because only sam can do "sam -r". --=20 Aram H=C4=83v=C4=83rneanu From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: stanley lieber Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 16:53:01 -0400 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <240B21E7-6FB4-45E3-9E59-7B3635D6C4C2@9front.org> Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 906eed40-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 >> at the cost of stepping all over the rest of the (Plan 9) system > > >? To get the best use out of acme you need to arrange for it to capture a lo= t of plumber rules (or arrange to maintain multiple sets of rules for acme = and not-acme)=2E Because of the way acme manages windows, programs often ne= ed to keep track of (and handle) whether or not they are running inside acm= e=2E Finally, acme does not support some common features provided by rio (l= ike hold mode), which means even some text-based programs (like upas/marsha= l) aren't fully functional=2E Everything acme touches requires special hand= -holding=2E Conceptually, it is the opposite of the tools approach to softw= are=2E As I said, this can be convenient on a UNIX system that otherwise lacks th= e features provided by rio, but on Plan 9, where most of this stuff is othe= rwise already available, it requires a great deal of commitment to the acme= grab-it-all philosophy=2E Sometimes, you don't want to carry the kitchen s= ink on your back=2E sl From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <240B21E7-6FB4-45E3-9E59-7B3635D6C4C2@9front.org> References: <240B21E7-6FB4-45E3-9E59-7B3635D6C4C2@9front.org> From: Mark van Atten Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 23:13:09 +0200 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9074c198-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 The one thing I regret about Sam is that it doesn't have scroll-select as in Acme. I know the k and ' dance, but that is not nearly as convenient. Mark van Atten. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <240B21E7-6FB4-45E3-9E59-7B3635D6C4C2@9front.org> Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 17:18:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: Lee Fallat To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 907f8fd8-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 You can copy code from Acme and "backport" it. I've done it before and it was trivial (and it's long gone too). On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 5:13 PM, Mark van Atten wrote: > The one thing I regret about Sam is that it doesn't have scroll-select > as in Acme. I know the k and ' dance, but that is not nearly as > convenient. > > Mark van Atten. > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 17:51:44 -0400 From: Kurt H Maier To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 908969c2-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 08:42:54PM +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > Any experienced acme user will quickly start banging the desk in > frustration if thrown back into sam. > Incredibly clumsy by comparison; not fluid. sam -d is useful for certain > types of scripting. This is tantamount to saying acme is superior because you are better at acme. While this is a valid method of choosing the tools you personally use, it's not much good to people who are trying to figure out how these sorts of opinions get formed in the first place. Sam is a legitimate step forward in the world of text editing; its command language and approach to regex is very powerful and allows interesting applications. Samterm has quirks and things that need fixing -- its scrolling mechanism has been suggested for use as a csprng -- but there's always the ability to fix or replace the interface. With acme, there is nothing *but* the interface. Acme is not a text editor; it is a second-system dumpster fire shoehorned into an incompatible interface. Because it overlaps so greatly with rio, lots of code requires special-casing the acme environment. It's pretty clear from looking at the code that acme was eventually aiming to replace rio entirely. I will never know (and am uninterested in) the reason this was not completed, but the current state of it is hacky and gross. In addition, Acme as an interface represents a complete reversal of previous 'window systems should be transparent' approaches taken. Acme does not allow you to do things with your computer so much as it requires you to do things *to* your computer. It requires fiddling. This approach is fine for some, but others of us just want to edit a damn text file once in a while. Acme is firmly with X Windows in the "huge programs that don't actually *do* anything for you" category. khm From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Lyndon Nerenberg In-Reply-To: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 17:37:16 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90a7a8ec-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > On May 19, 2016, at 2:51 PM, Kurt H Maier wrote: >=20 > Acme is firmly with X Windows in the "huge programs that don't = actually > *do* anything for you" category. To my view, acme is more of an IDE than an editor. the << = B3-on-file:linenum >> in the diagnostics window from a compile is the = greatest productivity gain I have ever experienced. I do like how I can = use the "window control " extensions acme provides to write helper = scripts for that environment. But again, these are almost always = IDE-oriented things that I only use during compile/debug/compile/debug. I have never been able to get my head around sam's user interface, at = least to the point where I would be using it as it was intended. I love = it in '-r' mode on UNIX when I need to edit something on the other end = of a horribly inconsistent VPN tunnel. But really, for most plain text = editing needs (troff docs, system config files, etc), I'm happy to plod = along with ed(1). From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-Id: <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Ethan Grammatikidis To: 9fans@9fans.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 02:23:11 +0100 In-Reply-To: <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90afb38e-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Fri, May 20, 2016, at 01:37 AM, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > To my view, acme is more of an IDE than an editor. the << B3-on-file:linenum >> in the diagnostics window from a compile is the greatest productivity gain I have ever experienced. It's the plumber which does the heavy lifting there, and it will provide the same in conjunction with rio & sam. Selecting 'plumb' from rio's menu may seem clunkier, but after the first time it's just a b2click without reselecting, unless of course you do anything else with the b2 menu in between. Having said that, I prefer Acme anyway. Its window tiling often becomes a nuisance, but it's a minor one. Sam's dual clipboard is a far bigger nuisance in my many-window environment. Acme's small, mouse-focus tag bars are sometimes irritating, but now the tag bars expand you can keep multiple commands handy much more simply than in rio or sam. Acme's changing the length of the tag text can be quite awful when it jumps between single and multiple lines when editing, but again, it doesn't interfere like Sam's dual clipboard. Also, I find Sam's menus a good deal worse than rio's; I find myself needing to switch menu elements far more often. 9front's addition of chording to Sam helps, but it's buggy and (due to the dual clipboards) I haven't used Sam enough to know if it's enough. -- Wir mussen wissen, wir werden wissen. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Lyndon Nerenberg In-Reply-To: <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 18:32:03 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90b785b4-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > On May 19, 2016, at 6:23 PM, Ethan Grammatikidis = wrote: >=20 > It's the plumber which does the heavy lifting there, and it will = provide the same in conjunction with rio & sam. Selecting 'plumb' from = rio's menu may seem clunkier, but after the first time it's just a = b2click without reselecting, unless of course you do anything else with = the b2 menu in between. B2-anything on any "post-80s" mouse is an exercise in insanity. = Anything requiring B2 these days is looking for trouble. I stopped = using any B2-involving chords years ago, because the potential for = fuckup is just too large with the modern crop of scroll wheel mice. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-Id: <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Ethan Grammatikidis To: 9fans@9fans.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 03:02:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90bddd24-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Fri, May 20, 2016, at 02:32 AM, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > > > On May 19, 2016, at 6:23 PM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: > > > > It's the plumber which does the heavy lifting there, and it will provide the same in conjunction with rio & sam. Selecting 'plumb' from rio's menu may seem clunkier, but after the first time it's just a b2click without reselecting, unless of course you do anything else with the b2 menu in between. > > B2-anything on any "post-80s" mouse is an exercise in insanity. Anything requiring B2 these days is looking for trouble. I stopped using any B2-involving chords years ago, because the potential for fuckup is just too large with the modern crop of scroll wheel mice. > > It's a problem for many people, for sure. On one of my mice, I bound a side button to b2, and it works well enough for me. Other than that, I find clicking the scrollwheel is acceptable with about 50% of mice. -- Wir mussen wissen, wir werden wissen. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Lyndon Nerenberg In-Reply-To: <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2016 19:07:44 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90c3f542-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > It's a problem for many people, for sure. On one of my mice, I bound a = side button to b2, and it works well enough for me. Other than that, I = find clicking the scrollwheel is acceptable with about 50% of mice.=20 A consistent way to remap the mouse button bindings would work. It's a = lot easier to find an eighty-button gaming mouse than a Logitech = ergonomic three-button mouse, these days.= From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 13:58:54 +0200 Message-ID: From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90d249c6-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 I have bought 5 IBM mice with a real middle finger button. If someone needs one tell me. http://www.ibmfiles.com/ibmfiles/peripherals/scrollpoint_ice_blue.jpg location: Berlin From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> From: Mark van Atten Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 14:07:58 +0200 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90daf864-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 This one I like, and it is not difficult to find: http://www.amazon.com/HP-Optical-Button-Mouse-accessory/dp/B0002Y5LZ8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463745997&sr=8-1&keywords=dy651a+mouse Mark. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Brantley Coile In-reply-to: Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 08:12:48 -0400 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90e0f6f6-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 I purchased about a hundred of the IBM mice on Ebay, so I=E2=80=99m good = for a while.=20 HP has a nice three button mouse currently, seemingly from the European = part of the company. I=E2=80=99m using one now. http://www.laserjet.co.uk/hp-usb-optical-3-button-mouse-dy651a Acme, of course, is based on the Oberon System by Niklaus Wirth, = modified to be imported into the Plan 9 system, so it does have a = different feel from Sam. If you haven=E2=80=99t studied Oberon, I would = recommend you do. It was an amazing tour-de-force by Professor Wirth.=20 The use of Sam vs Acme was always pretty evenly distributed. Rob uses = Acme and Ken uses Sam still. At SouthSuite, one of the few places still based on Plan 9, use Acme = uniformly. Brantley Coile > On May 20, 2016, at 7:58 AM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 > I have bought 5 IBM mice with a real middle finger button. If someone > needs one tell me. > http://www.ibmfiles.com/ibmfiles/peripherals/scrollpoint_ice_blue.jpg > location: Berlin >=20 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 To: 9fans@9fans.net References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> From: Wes Kussmaul Message-ID: <573F3201.2080300@ReliableID.com> Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 11:49:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 90f0de04-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On 05/20/2016 08:07 AM, Mark van Atten wrote: > This one I like, and it is not difficult to find: > > http://www.amazon.com/HP-Optical-Button-Mouse-accessory/dp/B0002Y5LZ8/r= ef=3Dsr_1_1?ie=3DUTF8&qid=3D1463745997&sr=3D8-1&keywords=3Ddy651a+mouse Sorry folks, it's not my habit to take the last cookie but in this case=20 I bought the last one. --=20 Wes Kussmaul The Authenticity Institute 738 Main Street Waltham, MA 02451 office +1 781 790 1674 mobile +1 781 330 1881 THIS COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE PERSON TO WHOM IT = IS ADDRESSED. If it was addressed incorrectly there's not much I can do b= ut ask you politely to pretend you didn't see it. Any disclaimer suggesti= ng that the sender has some kind of recourse is just wishful thinking. If I had a message from you that was digitally signed using your Osmio VR= D=E2=84=A2 identity credential from the Osmio Vital Records Department (h= ttp://osmio.ch), we could easily and at no cost exchange encrypted messag= es and files with each other. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> From: Steve Simon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> Message-Id: <29966939-1C45-4025-BB7A-8E49BD78C5E5@quintile.net> Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 21:01:51 +0100 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 91010f4a-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 I started with Sam a sit ran on all the different unixes I used an vi an ema= cs just felt clunky. I never got into help and when acme replaced that I just never made the tran= sition. I love Sam, though it is because I know it so well. btw, anyone written scripts to allow the plan9 wiki to be edited from Sam? m= aybe the wiki is outmoded these days? -Steve From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 10:36:44 -0700 To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <94da399e3d511fd1c3eba711ce9692e0@lilly.quanstro.net> In-Reply-To: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 923971a4-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > This is tantamount to saying acme is superior because you are better at > acme. [...] c'mon man. you follow this with several paragraphs of opinion which appear to say that acme is not better because you don't like it. but then again, editors don't tend to lead to logical arguments. :-) - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 11:16:11 -0700 From: Kurt H Maier To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <20160521181611.GA68621@wopr> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <94da399e3d511fd1c3eba711ce9692e0@lilly.quanstro.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <94da399e3d511fd1c3eba711ce9692e0@lilly.quanstro.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9246a022-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 10:36:44AM -0700, erik quanstrom wrote: > > This is tantamount to saying acme is superior because you are better at > > acme. [...] > > c'mon man. you follow this with several paragraphs of opinion which appear > to say that acme is not better because you don't like it. Yes, having explicitly set the dimensions of the field, I proceeded to stay in bounds. > but then again, editors don't tend to lead to logical arguments. :-) I've never seen it happen, and I don't really expect to. I do maintain that calling acme an editor is akin to calling New York a shopping center. khm From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160521181611.GA68621@wopr> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <94da399e3d511fd1c3eba711ce9692e0@lilly.quanstro.net> <20160521181611.GA68621@wopr> From: Rob Pike Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 11:28:09 -0700 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01183810b2564105335e5f00 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 926779c8-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --089e01183810b2564105335e5f00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 If that was meant as a dis, you obviously haven't been to New York lately. -rob On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Kurt H Maier wrote: > On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 10:36:44AM -0700, erik quanstrom wrote: > > > This is tantamount to saying acme is superior because you are better at > > > acme. [...] > > > > c'mon man. you follow this with several paragraphs of opinion which > appear > > to say that acme is not better because you don't like it. > > Yes, having explicitly set the dimensions of the field, I proceeded to > stay in bounds. > > > but then again, editors don't tend to lead to logical arguments. :-) > > I've never seen it happen, and I don't really expect to. I do maintain > that calling acme an editor is akin to calling New York a shopping > center. > > khm > > --089e01183810b2564105335e5f00 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If that was meant as a dis, you obviously haven't been= to New York lately.

-rob


On Sat, May 21, 2016 = at 11:16 AM, Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net> wrote:
On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 10:36:44AM -0= 700, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > This is tantamount to saying acme is superior because you are bet= ter at
> > acme.=C2=A0 [...]
>
> c'mon man.=C2=A0 you follow this with several paragraphs of opinio= n which appear
> to say that acme is not better because you don't like it.

Yes, having explicitly set the dimensions of the field, I proceeded = to
stay in bounds.

> but then again, editors don't tend to lead to logical arguments.= =C2=A0 :-)

I've never seen it happen, and I don't really expect to.=C2= =A0 I do maintain
that calling acme an editor is akin to calling New York a shopping
center.

khm


--089e01183810b2564105335e5f00-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <240B21E7-6FB4-45E3-9E59-7B3635D6C4C2@9front.org> From: Mark van Atten Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 21:08:28 +0200 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 928a455c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:18 PM, Lee Fallat wrote: > You can copy code from Acme and "backport" it. I've done it before and > it was trivial (and it's long gone too). That's most interesting. The following had made me think it would not be easy: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.os.plan9.general/8889/focus=8920 Mark. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 12:21:06 -0700 From: Kurt H Maier To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <20160521192106.GB68621@wopr> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <94da399e3d511fd1c3eba711ce9692e0@lilly.quanstro.net> <20160521181611.GA68621@wopr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 929aff82-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:28:09AM -0700, Rob Pike wrote: > If that was meant as a dis, you obviously haven't been to New York lately. > Merely an observation that editing text is a minor subset of acme's functionality. When I dis things, you will not be confused about my intent. khm From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <81e1f2c6ea3653a662acde89a8afe6f0@debpi> To: khm@sciops.net, 9fans@9fans.net Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 20:23:12 +0100 From: trebol55555@yandex.ru MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 92a19eaa-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 #define chording 0 /* code here for reference but it causes deadlocks */ I suppose the bug is still messing around. I'll give it a try to the 9front version. Thanks for the info! From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> <29966939-1C45-4025-BB7A-8E49BD78C5E5@quintile.net> In-Reply-To: <29966939-1C45-4025-BB7A-8E49BD78C5E5@quintile.net> From: Mark Lee Smith Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 21:52:53 +0000 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114b295c428c830533613bfa Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 92ed6894-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --001a114b295c428c830533613bfa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks for the interesting comments. I've been making an effort to use Sam, in the interest of my own understanding. One of the biggest barriers I've hit is that there doesn't appear to be a good way to save complex edit commands for later. The man page suggests that it's possible to send commands to Sam from shell scripts. External communication Sam listens to the edit plumb port. If plumbing is not active, on invocation sam creates a named pipe /srv/sam.user which acts as an additional source of commands. Characters written to the named pipe are treated as if they had been typed in the command window. B is a shell-level command that causes an instance of sam running on the same terminal to load the named files. B uses either plumbing or the named pipe, whichever service is available. If plumbing is not enabled, the option allows a line number to be specified for the initial position to dis- play in the last named file (plumbing provides a more gen- eral mechanism for this ability). E is a shell-level command that can be used as $EDITOR in a Unix environment. It runs B on file and then does not exit until file is changed, which is taken as a signal that file is done being edited. I use Plan9Port on OpenBSD and typically use the plumber with Acme. I've changed "editor" to sam, and read the B and E scripts. As I understand it the plumbing approach doesn't allows sending arbitrary commands, so I've stopped the plumber. I'm unable to find the named pipe and looking at the sam source code it's not obvious to me how or whether such a pipe is created. Is this capability still present in Sam? Perhaps the plumber has completely subsumed this by now? Ultimately what I'd like to know is how you go about reusing common commands? Do you snarf and paste them? I was thinking that it would be useful to create scripts like "ap" which select the current paragraph (name inspired by Vim.) What's the typical workflow when using Sam? I don't deny that it's a great editor. Writing several thousand words in Sam yesterday was a pleasure. Maybe I'm completely off base here? All the best, Mark On Fri, 20 May 2016 at 22:05 Steve Simon wrote: > > I started with Sam a sit ran on all the different unixes I used an vi an > emacs just felt clunky. > > I never got into help and when acme replaced that I just never made the > transition. > > I love Sam, though it is because I know it so well. > > btw, anyone written scripts to allow the plan9 wiki to be edited from Sam? > maybe the wiki is outmoded these days? > > -Steve > > > > --001a114b295c428c830533613bfa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the interesting comments.

I&= #39;ve been making an effort to use Sam, in the interest of my own understa= nding. One of the biggest barriers I've hit is that there doesn't a= ppear to be a good way to save complex edit commands for later. The man pag= e suggests that it's possible to send commands to Sam from shell script= s.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 External commu= nication
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sam listens to the ed= it plumb port.=C2=A0 If plumbing is not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 active, on invocation sam creates a named pipe /srv/sam.user
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 which acts as an additional sourc= e of commands.=C2=A0 Characters
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 written to the named pipe are treated as if they had been
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 typed in the command window.

=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 B is a shell-level command th= at causes an instance of sam
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 r= unning on the same terminal to load the named files. B uses
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 either plumbing or the named pipe, whicheve= r service is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 available.=C2=A0 = If plumbing is not enabled, the option allows a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 line number to be specified for the initial position to d= is-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 play in the last named fil= e (plumbing provides a more gen-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 eral mechanism for this ability).

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 E is a shell-level command that can be used as $ED= ITOR in a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Unix environment.=C2= =A0 It runs B on file and then does not exit
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 until file is changed, which is taken as a signal that file<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is done being edited.

I use Plan9Port on OpenBSD and typically use the plu= mber with Acme. I've changed "editor" to sam, and read the B = and E scripts. As I understand it the plumbing approach doesn't allows = sending arbitrary commands, so I've stopped the plumber. I'm unable= to find the named pipe and looking at the sam source code it's not obv= ious to me how or whether such a pipe is created. Is this capability still = present in Sam? Perhaps the plumber has completely subsumed this by now? Ul= timately what I'd like to know is how you go about reusing common comma= nds? Do you snarf and paste them? I was thinking that it would be useful to= create scripts like "ap" which select the current paragraph (nam= e inspired by Vim.) What's the typical workflow when using Sam? I don&#= 39;t deny that it's a great editor. Writing several thousand words in S= am yesterday was a pleasure.

Maybe I'm complet= ely off base here?

All the best,

Mark





On Fri, 20 May 201= 6 at 22:05 Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:

I started with Sam a sit ran on all the different unixes I used an vi an em= acs just felt clunky.

I never got into help and when acme replaced that I just never made the tra= nsition.

I love Sam, though it is because I know it so well.

btw, anyone written scripts to allow the plan9 wiki to be edited from Sam? = maybe the wiki is outmoded these days?

-Steve



--001a114b295c428c830533613bfa-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Lyndon Nerenberg In-Reply-To: <20160521181611.GA68621@wopr> Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 16:14:15 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <3D7B5693-1E48-44CB-95FA-2F79E2505E49@orthanc.ca> References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <94da399e3d511fd1c3eba711ce9692e0@lilly.quanstro.net> <20160521181611.GA68621@wopr> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9330965a-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > I've never seen it happen, and I don't really expect to. I do maintain > that calling acme an editor is akin to calling New York a shopping > center. > > khm That deserves an entry in the fortunes file. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 16:18:17 -0700 To: 9fans@9fans.net Message-ID: <3699416d56e5af8219e1543e38a22f40@lilly.quanstro.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> <29966939-1C45-4025-BB7A-8E49BD78C5E5@quintile.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 933db902-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 unfortunately, sam has hardcoded B into the command channel. see /sys/src/cmd/samterm/plan9.c:/^plumbformat - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> <29966939-1C45-4025-BB7A-8E49BD78C5E5@quintile.net> Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 09:36:51 +0200 Message-ID: From: Siarhei Zirukin To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0102f1bc28b2450533696389 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 93681b02-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --089e0102f1bc28b2450533696389 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 In 9front's version of sam there are two additional commands that could help you with "complex" commands, perhaps. ^ Plan 9-command Send the standard output of the Plan 9 command to the command window. _ Plan 9-command Send the range to the standard input, and send the standard output of the Plan 9 command to the command window. On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Mark Lee Smith wrote: > Thanks for the interesting comments. > > I've been making an effort to use Sam, in the interest of my own > understanding. One of the biggest barriers I've hit is that there doesn't > appear to be a good way to save complex edit commands for later. The man > page suggests that it's possible to send commands to Sam from shell scripts. > > External communication > Sam listens to the edit plumb port. If plumbing is not > active, on invocation sam creates a named pipe /srv/sam.user > which acts as an additional source of commands. Characters > written to the named pipe are treated as if they had been > typed in the command window. > > B is a shell-level command that causes an instance of sam > running on the same terminal to load the named files. B uses > either plumbing or the named pipe, whichever service is > available. If plumbing is not enabled, the option allows a > line number to be specified for the initial position to dis- > play in the last named file (plumbing provides a more gen- > eral mechanism for this ability). > > E is a shell-level command that can be used as $EDITOR in a > Unix environment. It runs B on file and then does not exit > until file is changed, which is taken as a signal that file > is done being edited. > > I use Plan9Port on OpenBSD and typically use the plumber with Acme. I've > changed "editor" to sam, and read the B and E scripts. As I understand it > the plumbing approach doesn't allows sending arbitrary commands, so I've > stopped the plumber. I'm unable to find the named pipe and looking at the > sam source code it's not obvious to me how or whether such a pipe is > created. Is this capability still present in Sam? Perhaps the plumber has > completely subsumed this by now? Ultimately what I'd like to know is how > you go about reusing common commands? Do you snarf and paste them? I was > thinking that it would be useful to create scripts like "ap" which select > the current paragraph (name inspired by Vim.) What's the typical workflow > when using Sam? I don't deny that it's a great editor. Writing several > thousand words in Sam yesterday was a pleasure. > > Maybe I'm completely off base here? > > All the best, > > Mark > > > > > > On Fri, 20 May 2016 at 22:05 Steve Simon wrote: > >> >> I started with Sam a sit ran on all the different unixes I used an vi an >> emacs just felt clunky. >> >> I never got into help and when acme replaced that I just never made the >> transition. >> >> I love Sam, though it is because I know it so well. >> >> btw, anyone written scripts to allow the plan9 wiki to be edited from >> Sam? maybe the wiki is outmoded these days? >> >> -Steve >> >> >> >> --089e0102f1bc28b2450533696389 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In 9front's version of sam there are two additional co= mmands that could help you with "complex" commands, perhaps.
=

^ Plan 9-command
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Send the standard output of the Plan 9 command t= o the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0comm= and window.

_ Plan 9-command
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Send the range to th= e standard input, and send the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0standard output of the Plan 9 command to the command
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0window.

On = Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Mark Lee Smith <netytan@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for = the interesting comments.

I've been making an effort= to use Sam, in the interest of my own understanding. One of the biggest ba= rriers I've hit is that there doesn't appear to be a good way to sa= ve complex edit commands for later. The man page suggests that it's pos= sible to send commands to Sam from shell scripts.

=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 External communication
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sam listens to the edit plumb port.=C2=A0 If pl= umbing is not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 active, on invoc= ation sam creates a named pipe /srv/sam.user
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 which acts as an additional source of commands.=C2=A0 Charac= ters
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 written to the named pipe= are treated as if they had been
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 typed in the command window.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 B is a shell-level command that causes an instance of sam=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 running on the same terminal = to load the named files. B uses
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 either plumbing or the named pipe, whichever service is
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 available.=C2=A0 If plumbing is not enabled= , the option allows a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 line num= ber to be specified for the initial position to dis-
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 play in the last named file (plumbing provides a m= ore gen-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 eral mechanism for th= is ability).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 E = is a shell-level command that can be used as $EDITOR in a
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Unix environment.=C2=A0 It runs B on file and t= hen does not exit
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 until file i= s changed, which is taken as a signal that file
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is done being edited.

I us= e Plan9Port on OpenBSD and typically use the plumber with Acme. I've ch= anged "editor" to sam, and read the B and E scripts. As I underst= and it the plumbing approach doesn't allows sending arbitrary commands,= so I've stopped the plumber. I'm unable to find the named pipe and= looking at the sam source code it's not obvious to me how or whether s= uch a pipe is created. Is this capability still present in Sam? Perhaps the= plumber has completely subsumed this by now? Ultimately what I'd like = to know is how you go about reusing common commands? Do you snarf and paste= them? I was thinking that it would be useful to create scripts like "= ap" which select the current paragraph (name inspired by Vim.) What= 9;s the typical workflow when using Sam? I don't deny that it's a g= reat editor. Writing several thousand words in Sam yesterday was a pleasure= .

Maybe I'm completely off base here?

All the best,

Mark

=




On Fr= i, 20 May 2016 at 22:05 Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:

I started with Sam a sit ran on all the different unixes I used an vi an em= acs just felt clunky.

I never got into help and when acme replaced that I just never made the tra= nsition.

I love Sam, though it is because I know it so well.

btw, anyone written scripts to allow the plan9 wiki to be edited from Sam? = maybe the wiki is outmoded these days?

-Steve




--089e0102f1bc28b2450533696389-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20160519215144.GG22691@wopr> <461FFF1E-B3DA-43E1-BC4C-1672E4C628A6@orthanc.ca> <1463707391.4126990.613229361.7308302E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <48ECC010-AAE2-4535-B5BF-42D46EC1CD90@orthanc.ca> <1463709745.4136967.613259513.7C5C1955@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5B039617-11E1-4D3E-AE61-E29C067220AD@orthanc.ca> <29966939-1C45-4025-BB7A-8E49BD78C5E5@quintile.net> In-Reply-To: From: Mark Lee Smith Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 17:28:10 +0000 Message-ID: To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11367e2674791e053371a627 Subject: Re: [9fans] problem with acme on 9front Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9382689a-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --001a11367e2674791e053371a627 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks for the heads up Sairhei! I ended up backporting 9front's ^ and _ to my copy of plan9port. It's not as flexible as having the named pipe around but it answers the immediate question. On Sun, 22 May 2016 at 09:38 Siarhei Zirukin wrote: > In 9front's version of sam there are two additional commands that could > help you with "complex" commands, perhaps. > > ^ Plan 9-command > Send the standard output of the Plan 9 command to the > command window. > > _ Plan 9-command > Send the range to the standard input, and send the > standard output of the Plan 9 command to the command > window. > > On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Mark Lee Smith > wrote: > >> Thanks for the interesting comments. >> >> I've been making an effort to use Sam, in the interest of my own >> understanding. One of the biggest barriers I've hit is that there doesn't >> appear to be a good way to save complex edit commands for later. The man >> page suggests that it's possible to send commands to Sam from shell scripts. >> >> External communication >> Sam listens to the edit plumb port. If plumbing is not >> active, on invocation sam creates a named pipe /srv/sam.user >> which acts as an additional source of commands. Characters >> written to the named pipe are treated as if they had been >> typed in the command window. >> >> B is a shell-level command that causes an instance of sam >> running on the same terminal to load the named files. B uses >> either plumbing or the named pipe, whichever service is >> available. If plumbing is not enabled, the option allows a >> line number to be specified for the initial position to dis- >> play in the last named file (plumbing provides a more gen- >> eral mechanism for this ability). >> >> E is a shell-level command that can be used as $EDITOR in a >> Unix environment. It runs B on file and then does not exit >> until file is changed, which is taken as a signal that file >> is done being edited. >> >> I use Plan9Port on OpenBSD and typically use the plumber with Acme. I've >> changed "editor" to sam, and read the B and E scripts. As I understand it >> the plumbing approach doesn't allows sending arbitrary commands, so I've >> stopped the plumber. I'm unable to find the named pipe and looking at the >> sam source code it's not obvious to me how or whether such a pipe is >> created. Is this capability still present in Sam? Perhaps the plumber has >> completely subsumed this by now? Ultimately what I'd like to know is how >> you go about reusing common commands? Do you snarf and paste them? I was >> thinking that it would be useful to create scripts like "ap" which select >> the current paragraph (name inspired by Vim.) What's the typical workflow >> when using Sam? I don't deny that it's a great editor. Writing several >> thousand words in Sam yesterday was a pleasure. >> >> Maybe I'm completely off base here? >> >> All the best, >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 20 May 2016 at 22:05 Steve Simon wrote: >> >>> >>> I started with Sam a sit ran on all the different unixes I used an vi an >>> emacs just felt clunky. >>> >>> I never got into help and when acme replaced that I just never made the >>> transition. >>> >>> I love Sam, though it is because I know it so well. >>> >>> btw, anyone written scripts to allow the plan9 wiki to be edited from >>> Sam? maybe the wiki is outmoded these days? >>> >>> -Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> > --001a11367e2674791e053371a627 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the heads up Sairhei! I ended up backporting 9f= ront's ^ and _ to my copy of plan9port. It's not as flexible as hav= ing the named pipe around but it answers the immediate question.

On Sun, 22 May 2016 at 09:38 Siar= hei Zirukin <ft= rvxmtrx@gmail.com> wrote:
In 9front's version of sam there are two additional comm= ands that could help you with "complex" commands, perhaps.

^ Plan 9-command
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Send the standard output of the Plan 9 command t= o the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0comm= and window.

_ Plan 9-command
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Send the range to th= e standard input, and send the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0standard output of the Plan 9 command to the command
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0window.

On = Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Mark Lee Smith <netytan@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for = the interesting comments.

I've been making an effort= to use Sam, in the interest of my own understanding. One of the biggest ba= rriers I've hit is that there doesn't appear to be a good way to sa= ve complex edit commands for later. The man page suggests that it's pos= sible to send commands to Sam from shell scripts.

=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 External communication
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sam listens to the edit plumb port.=C2=A0 If pl= umbing is not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 active, on invoc= ation sam creates a named pipe /srv/sam.user
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 which acts as an additional source of commands.=C2=A0 Charac= ters
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 written to the named pipe= are treated as if they had been
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 typed in the command window.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 B is a shell-level command that causes an instance of sam=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 running on the same terminal = to load the named files. B uses
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 either plumbing or the named pipe, whichever service is
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 available.=C2=A0 If plumbing is not enabled= , the option allows a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 line num= ber to be specified for the initial position to dis-
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 play in the last named file (plumbing provides a m= ore gen-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 eral mechanism for th= is ability).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 E = is a shell-level command that can be used as $EDITOR in a
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Unix environment.=C2=A0 It runs B on file and t= hen does not exit
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 until file i= s changed, which is taken as a signal that file
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is done being edited.

I us= e Plan9Port on OpenBSD and typically use the plumber with Acme. I've ch= anged "editor" to sam, and read the B and E scripts. As I underst= and it the plumbing approach doesn't allows sending arbitrary commands,= so I've stopped the plumber. I'm unable to find the named pipe and= looking at the sam source code it's not obvious to me how or whether s= uch a pipe is created. Is this capability still present in Sam? Perhaps the= plumber has completely subsumed this by now? Ultimately what I'd like = to know is how you go about reusing common commands? Do you snarf and paste= them? I was thinking that it would be useful to create scripts like "= ap" which select the current paragraph (name inspired by Vim.) What= 9;s the typical workflow when using Sam? I don't deny that it's a g= reat editor. Writing several thousand words in Sam yesterday was a pleasure= .

Maybe I'm completely off base here?

All the best,

Mark

=




On Fri, 20 May 2016 at 22:05 Steve = Simon <steve@qui= ntile.net> wrote:

I started with Sam a sit ran on all the different unixes I used an vi an em= acs just felt clunky.

I never got into help and when acme replaced that I just never made the tra= nsition.

I love Sam, though it is because I know it so well.

btw, anyone written scripts to allow the plan9 wiki to be edited from Sam? = maybe the wiki is outmoded these days?

-Steve




--001a11367e2674791e053371a627--