[9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Prof Brucee]

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I realize that it is pretty much required form in this forum to avoid
criticizing Linux. (What is the point? Get on with you own hobbies. etc.).
I would like to ask a very open question: has Linux with the release of 4.0
finally jumped the shark. My experience has been sticking to wearing an old
shoe (aging Ubuntu box in the corner, rarely used and gathering dust). But
now I see what *marvels* have been released on the general populace and
recognize the double episodes and celebrity appearances. So I raise the
question.

Thanks for your time,

brucee

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[cinap_lenrek]

http://9front.org/img/pjwshark.png

--
cinap

Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Prof Brucee]

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You are not helping at all. We know that Peter has done *everything*.

brucee

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 2:49 PM, <cinap_lenrek@felloff.net> wrote:

> http://9front.org/img/pjwshark.png
>
> --
> cinap
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Tiago Natel]

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Make a random commit and call it 4.0? Yes, I think that it jumped the shark
as well as all competitors (BSD. win, osx). But unfortunate we don't have
any other good production-ready choice at the moment.

My hope is that someone is hard working on a new better tech for the next
20 years.  But I know that this is pretty much utopia. Some company will
introduce an old shit idea, call it 'new', make a lot of money and fuck
ours next 20 years of software...

[]'s

i4k
Em 24/07/2015 02:10, "Prof Brucee" <prof.brucee@gmail.com> escreveu:

> You are not helping at all. We know that Peter has done *everything*.
>
> brucee
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 2:49 PM, <cinap_lenrek@felloff.net> wrote:
>
>> http://9front.org/img/pjwshark.png
>>
>> --
>> cinap
>>
>>
>

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Prof Brucee]

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I sent a message to this list a short while ago suggesting that interested
parties contact me about my startup. Sorry if it was too cryptic. Consider
the message decrypted.

brucee

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Tiago Natel <tiago.natel@neoway.com.br>
wrote:

> Make a random commit and call it 4.0? Yes, I think that it jumped the
> shark as well as all competitors (BSD. win, osx). But unfortunate we don't
> have any other good production-ready choice at the moment.
>
> My hope is that someone is hard working on a new better tech for the next
> 20 years.  But I know that this is pretty much utopia. Some company will
> introduce an old shit idea, call it 'new', make a lot of money and fuck
> ours next 20 years of software...
>
> []'s
>
> i4k
> Em 24/07/2015 02:10, "Prof Brucee" <prof.brucee@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> You are not helping at all. We know that Peter has done *everything*.
>>
>> brucee
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 2:49 PM, <cinap_lenrek@felloff.net> wrote:
>>
>>> http://9front.org/img/pjwshark.png
>>>
>>> --
>>> cinap
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Ingo Krabbe]

I don't think that anyone on this list really got what you want/-ed.  At least I didn't. But maybe I already jumped the shark too.

Regards

ingo

> I sent a message to this list a short while ago suggesting that interested
> parties contact me about my startup. Sorry if it was too cryptic. Consider
> the message decrypted.
>
> brucee
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Tiago Natel <tiago.natel@neoway.com.br>
> wrote:
>
>> Make a random commit and call it 4.0? Yes, I think that it jumped the
>> shark as well as all competitors (BSD. win, osx). But unfortunate we don't
>> have any other good production-ready choice at the moment.
>>
>> My hope is that someone is hard working on a new better tech for the next
>> 20 years.  But I know that this is pretty much utopia. Some company will
>> introduce an old shit idea, call it 'new', make a lot of money and fuck
>> ours next 20 years of software...
>>
>> []'s
>>
>> i4k
>> Em 24/07/2015 02:10, "Prof Brucee" <prof.brucee@gmail.com> escreveu:
>>
>>> You are not helping at all. We know that Peter has done *everything*.
>>>
>>> brucee
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 2:49 PM, <cinap_lenrek@felloff.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://9front.org/img/pjwshark.png
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> cinap
>>>>
>>>>
>>>

Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[erik quanstrom]

On Thu Jul 23 22:12:56 PDT 2015, prof.brucee@gmail.com wrote:

> You are not helping at all. We know that Peter has done *everything*.
>
> brucee
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 2:49 PM, <cinap_lenrek@felloff.net> wrote:
>
> > http://9front.org/img/pjwshark.png

so it's peter.  the most interesting man in the world.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Charles Forsyth]

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On 24 July 2015 at 04:54, Prof Brucee <prof.brucee@gmail.com> wrote:

> has Linux with the release of 4.0 finally jumped the shark.


Since it's called "Hurr Durr I'ma Sheep", I thought I'd ask a celebrity
what he thought of it.
The response was much as I'd expected: http://goo.gl/ZefDFV
Others simply said that "it was baaad".

I'm amused that as usual, dynamic patching of kernel source, like replacing
dynamic libraries, is presented uniformly as a way to fix bugs everywhere
quickly, because we all know that bugs always are fixed and never
introduced, and being able to capture a kernel without rebooting is never
of practical interest.

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Ingo Krabbe]

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Actually not all bugs are fixed, some are introduced as a feature

http://intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/games/credits/space.html#hawk


> On 24 July 2015 at 04:54, Prof Brucee <prof.brucee@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> has Linux with the release of 4.0 finally jumped the shark.
>
>
> Since it's called "Hurr Durr I'ma Sheep", I thought I'd ask a celebrity
> what he thought of it.
> The response was much as I'd expected: http://goo.gl/ZefDFV
> Others simply said that "it was baaad".
>
> I'm amused that as usual, dynamic patching of kernel source, like replacing
> dynamic libraries, is presented uniformly as a way to fix bugs everywhere
> quickly, because we all know that bugs always are fixed and never
> introduced, and being able to capture a kernel without rebooting is never
> of practical interest.

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Prof Brucee]

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Look what I started. And All That Clever Code ...

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by
definition, not smart enough to debug it.

        — Brian W. Kernighan <http://genius.cat-v.org/brian-kernighan/> and
P. J. Plauger in *The Elements of Programming Style*
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0070342075?ie=UTF8&tag=catv-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0070342075>
.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Ingo Krabbe <ikrabbe.ask@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually not all bugs are fixed, some are introduced as a feature
>
> http://intellivisionlives.com/bluesky/games/credits/space.html#hawk
>
>
> > On 24 July 2015 at 04:54, Prof Brucee <prof.brucee@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> has Linux with the release of 4.0 finally jumped the shark.
> >
> >
> > Since it's called "Hurr Durr I'ma Sheep", I thought I'd ask a celebrity
> > what he thought of it.
> > The response was much as I'd expected: http://goo.gl/ZefDFV
> > Others simply said that "it was baaad".
> >
> > I'm amused that as usual, dynamic patching of kernel source, like
> replacing
> > dynamic libraries, is presented uniformly as a way to fix bugs everywhere
> > quickly, because we all know that bugs always are fixed and never
> > introduced, and being able to capture a kernel without rebooting is never
> > of practical interest.
>

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Ingo Krabbe]

> Look what I started. And All That Clever Code ...

Maybe I'm dumb but, where should I look at "all that clever code" and the things you "started"?

Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Prof Brucee]

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I started this thread. And all that clever code is being dynamically
replaced as we speak.

brucee

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Ingo Krabbe <ikrabbe.ask@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Look what I started. And All That Clever Code ...
>
> Maybe I'm dumb but, where should I look at "all that clever code" and the
> things you "started"?
>
>
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Devon H. O'Dell]

2015-07-24 5:05 GMT-07:00 Prof Brucee <prof.brucee@gmail.com>:
> Look what I started. And All That Clever Code ...
>
> Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
> Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by
> definition, not smart enough to debug it.
>
>         — Brian W. Kernighan and P. J. Plauger in The Elements of
> Programming Style.

Sigh. The proper text is:

"Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program
in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you
write it, how will you ever debug it?"

This particular text comes from bwk directly. It's possible that he
said something similar to the oft-misquoted version in a presentation
he was giving around the same time as the book's publication, but
there is no source material to verify and bwk doesn't remember given
that this would have been over 40 years ago. (Source: I emailed bwk
and pjp about this recently.)

--dho

Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Charles Forsyth]

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On 24 July 2015 at 18:08, Devon H. O'Dell <devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:

> doesn't remember given
> that this would have been over 40 years ago.
>

But POSIX remembers and indeed insists on minutiae from 40 years ago!

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Devon H. O'Dell]

2015-07-24 11:52 GMT-07:00 Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
>
> On 24 July 2015 at 18:08, Devon H. O'Dell <devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> doesn't remember given
>> that this would have been over 40 years ago.
>
>
> But POSIX remembers and indeed insists on minutiae from 40 years ago!

If only we could all be more like POSIX.

Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Charles Forsyth]

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On 24 July 2015 at 20:20, Devon H. O'Dell <devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:

> > But POSIX remembers and indeed insists on minutiae from 40 years ago!
>
> If only we could all be more like POSIX.


I didn't mean it as a good thing.

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Prof Brucee]

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I just quoted cat-v - shoot me.

brucee

On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 5:20 AM, Devon H. O'Dell <devon.odell@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 2015-07-24 11:52 GMT-07:00 Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>:
> >
> > On 24 July 2015 at 18:08, Devon H. O'Dell <devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> doesn't remember given
> >> that this would have been over 40 years ago.
> >
> >
> > But POSIX remembers and indeed insists on minutiae from 40 years ago!
>
> If only we could all be more like POSIX.
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Kurt H Maier]

Quoting Prof Brucee <prof.brucee@gmail.com>:

> I just quoted cat-v - shoot me.


ONE OF US

Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Bence Fábián]

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this thread is of much relevance. made me come out of hiding from SP9SSS

2015-07-24 22:57 GMT+02:00 Kurt H Maier <khm@sciops.net>:

> Quoting Prof Brucee <prof.brucee@gmail.com>:
>
>  I just quoted cat-v - shoot me.
>>
>
>
> ONE OF US
>
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[hiro]

Are you referring to Harvey Linux?

Re: [9fans] Has Linux jumped the shark?

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> I would like to ask a very open question: has Linux with the release of 4.0
> finally jumped the shark.

i had to go look.  dynamic core patching...  how retro?!!