On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:15 AM= , Axel Belinfante <axel.belinfante@utwente.nl> wrot= e:

I = couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found in=C2=A0http://www.osnews.com/comments/2= 8699

"Harvey i= s an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang=E2=80=9D.
=
So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.

More details, inc= luding the feature list below, are at=C2=A0http://harvey-os.org

Features<= br>
=E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit =E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified = syscall system
=E2=80=A2 GC= C toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
=E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and = libs, no need to change anything else
=E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system
=E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available<= br> =E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 = with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new fileserver, native toolchain an= d more

I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using= Harvey's headers and libs, no need to change anything else=E2=80=9D = =E2=80=94
I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80= =9D stuff to Harvey?

The team list contains names well-known on this= list...

I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.=

Axel.<= div>

On 25 Ju= l 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez <rymg19@gmail.com> wrote:

No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Pl= an 9.

On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, &q= uot;steve@quintile.= net" <s= teve@quintile.net> wrote:

not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?

if so does gcc run under Harvey?

does gcc run= under plan9 now?

Steve

On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez &l= t;rymg19@gmail.com> wrote:

https://medium.com/this-is-no= t-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e= 5f0b

I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and fo= und it interesting.

I found this part particularly neat:

> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known to= ols and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a modern = operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very difficul= t to have.

--
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

--
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

<= /div> --001a1140c42664ddc0051bbae4e1-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <50977FDF-8544-41E2-89B7-0369D26C980E@gmail.com> <6D6B26D6-EFC0-4B29-97E7-3DC74A8B1F4C@quintile.net> <56D2E1DC-FA8E-410A-8EBD-7A260AF6FA0B@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 10:20:03 +1000 Message-ID: From: Prof Brucee To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd76788d188a2051bbc3227 Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 631e5e20-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --047d7bd76788d188a2051bbc3227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hope it's not junk. It is a bit a wiffy. brucee On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:15 AM, Axel Belinfante wrote: > I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found in > http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699 > > "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang=E2= =80=9D. > > So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9. > > More details, including the feature list below, are at > http://harvey-os.org > > Features > > =E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit > =E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system > =E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!) > =E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no nee= d to > change anything else > =E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system > =E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available > =E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new fi= leserver, > native toolchain and more > > I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey's he= aders and libs, no need > to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 > I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80=9D stuff t= o Harvey? > > The team list contains names well-known on this list... > > I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out. > > Axel. > > On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez wrote: > > No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9. > > On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "steve@quintile.net" > wrote: >> >> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc? >> >> if so does gcc run under Harvey? >> >> does gcc run under plan9 now? >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez wrote: >> >> >> https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-syst= em-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b >> >> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and >> found it interesting. >> >> I found this part particularly neat: >> >> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known >> tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a >> modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be ver= y >> difficult to have. >> >> -- >> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> > -- > Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > > --047d7bd76788d188a2051bbc3227 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I hope it's not junk. It is a bit a wiffy.

brucee

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:15 AM, Axel Belinfante <axel.b= elinfante@utwente.nl> wrote:

I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, an= d found in=C2=A0http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699

"Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code = working with gcc and clang=E2=80=9D.

So, in a way it seems to be a p= ort of Plan 9.

More details, including the feature list below, are = at=C2=A0http://harvey-os= .org

Features

=E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit
=E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system
=E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!= )
=E2=80=A2 Compile in Linu= x or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to change anything el= se
=E2=80=A2 Fast compilati= on of the whole system
=E2= =80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available
=E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty dr= iver, new fileserver, native toolchain and more

I=E2=80=99m intrigue= d by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey's headers and libs, no= need to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94
I guess that means that= it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80=9D stuff to Harvey?

The team= list contains names well-known on this list...

I must say, it looks= quite interesting, worth checking out.

Axel.

On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez &l= t;rymg19@gmail.com> wrote:

No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Pl= an 9.

On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, &q= uot;steve@quintile.= net" <s= teve@quintile.net> wrote:

not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?

if so does gcc run under Harvey?

does gcc run= under plan9 now?

Steve

On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez &l= t;rymg19@gmail.com> wrote:

https://medium.com/this-is-no= t-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e= 5f0b

I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and fo= und it interesting.

I found this part particularly neat:

> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known to= ols and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a modern = operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very difficul= t to have.

--
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

--
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

<= /div> --047d7bd76788d188a2051bbc3227-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: a.regenfuss@gmx.de To: 9fans@9fans.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 11:35:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <50977FDF-8544-41E2-89B7-0369D26C980E@gmail.com> <6D6B26D6-EFC0-4B29-97E7-3DC74A8B1F4C@quintile.net> <56D2E1DC-FA8E-410A-8EBD-7A260AF6FA0B@gmail.com>, Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63277dca-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 Hm, that looks interesting=2E I like what that they are trying to make pla= n 9 a bit more accessible by using familiar programs and closing the gap between mod= ern unix and the plan 9 ideas=2E However, I think I'll rather keep vanilla plan 9 o= r 9front (rio is still better than X11, sorry)=2E But nontheless, it's a great idea and I hope they keep up the great work= =2E adrian =C2=A0 Gesendet:=C2=A0Sonntag, 26=2E Juli 2015 um 00:15 Uhr Von:=C2=A0"Axel Belinfante" An:=C2=A0"Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans=2Enet> Betreff:=C2=A0Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found in=C2=A0http://www=2Eosnews= =2Ecom/comments/28699 "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang=E2= =80=9D=2E So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9=2E More details, including the feature list below, are at=C2=A0http://harvey-= os=2Eorg[http://harvey-os=2Eorg] Features =E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit =E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system =E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!) =E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need= to change anything else =E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system =E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available =E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new fil= eserver, native toolchain and more I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey's hea= ders and libs, no need to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80=9D stuff to= Harvey? The team list contains names well-known on this list=2E=2E=2E I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out=2E Axel=2E =C2=A0 On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:=C2=A0 No clue=2E I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9=2E =C2=A0 On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "steve@quintile=2Enet[steve@quintile=2Ene= t]" wrote: not sure what Harvey is=2E=2E=2E is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc? =C2=A0 if so does gcc run under Harvey? does gcc run under plan9 now? =C2=A0 Steve =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez wrote: =C2=A0 https://medium=2Ecom/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-syst= em-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b[https://medium=2Ecom/this-is-not-a-mon= ad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b] I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and found= it interesting=2E I found this part particularly neat: > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known tool= s and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a modern op= erating system=2E Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very difficul= t to have=2E -- Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E -- Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 References: <50977FDF-8544-41E2-89B7-0369D26C980E@gmail.com> <6D6B26D6-EFC0-4B29-97E7-3DC74A8B1F4C@quintile.net> <56D2E1DC-FA8E-410A-8EBD-7A260AF6FA0B@gmail.com>

From: "steve@quintile.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 12:01:39 +0100 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 632c1b3c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 if there was a way to run apt-get on plan9 and run standard Linux tools, lik= e Firefox and thunderbird, and gcc then I would be a very happy old programm= er. I did some work on extending cinap's amazing linuxemu some years ago but mod= ern Linux has evolved to the point where even this becomes very painful. a b= sdemu might be easier, but I haven't looked into that. just being able to run gcc in arm/thumb cross mode would be great. I know ke= nc will build arm but I need to keep source compatibility with the rest of t= he team, who use gcc - on windows! it is still a battle to keep plan9 running at work, though so far, even if I= haven't won, I haven't lost either. -Steve > On 26 Jul 2015, at 10:35, a.regenfuss@gmx.de wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hm, that looks interesting. I like what that they are trying to make plan 9= a bit > more accessible by using familiar programs and closing the gap between mod= ern unix > and the plan 9 ideas. However, I think I'll rather keep vanilla plan 9 or 9= front > (rio is still better than X11, sorry). > But nontheless, it's a great idea and I hope they keep up the great work. >=20 > adrian > =20 >=20 > Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. Juli 2015 um 00:15 Uhr > Von: "Axel Belinfante" > An: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net> > Betreff: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 >=20 > I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found in http://www.osnews.com/comm= ents/28699 >=20 > "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang=E2=80= =9D. >=20 > So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9. > More details, including the feature list below, are at http://harvey-os.or= g[http://harvey-os.org] >=20 > Features >=20 > =E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit > =E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system > =E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!) > =E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need= to change anything else > =E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system > =E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available > =E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new fil= eserver, native toolchain and more >=20 > I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey's hea= ders and libs, no need to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 > I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80=9D stuff to= Harvey? >=20 > The team list contains names well-known on this list... >=20 > I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out. >=20 > Axel. > =20 >=20 > On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:=20 >=20 > No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9. > =20 > On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "steve@quintile.net[steve@quintile.net]" <= steve@quintile.net[steve@quintile.net]> wrote: > not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc? > =20 > if so does gcc run under Harvey? >=20 > does gcc run under plan9 now? > =20 > Steve > =20 > =20 > =20 > On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez wrote: > =20 > https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system= -with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b[https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tu= torial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b] >=20 > I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and found= it interesting. >=20 > I found this part particularly neat: >=20 >> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known tools= and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a modern oper= ating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very difficult to h= ave. >=20 > -- > Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > -- > Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <50977FDF-8544-41E2-89B7-0369D26C980E@gmail.com> <6D6B26D6-EFC0-4B29-97E7-3DC74A8B1F4C@quintile.net> <56D2E1DC-FA8E-410A-8EBD-7A260AF6FA0B@gmail.com>

Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 22:08:58 +1000 Message-ID: From: Prof Brucee To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113c2c3e0cec4d051bc61a74 Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6330bc5a-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --001a113c2c3e0cec4d051bc61a74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i was gonna suggest as per rob's post that chan.c was a good place to check for gcc introduced code. anyone actually going to diff the code or is it all going to be speculation? brucee On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 9:01 PM, steve@quintile.net wrote: > > if there was a way to run apt-get on plan9 and run standard Linux tools, > like Firefox and thunderbird, and gcc then I would be a very happy old > programmer. > > I did some work on extending cinap's amazing linuxemu some years ago but > modern Linux has evolved to the point where even this becomes very painfu= l. > a bsdemu might be easier, but I haven't looked into that. > > just being able to run gcc in arm/thumb cross mode would be great. I know > kenc will build arm but I need to keep source compatibility with the rest > of the team, who use gcc - on windows! > > it is still a battle to keep plan9 running at work, though so far, even i= f > I haven't won, I haven't lost either. > > -Steve > > > > > > On 26 Jul 2015, at 10:35, a.regenfuss@gmx.de wrote: > > > > > > Hm, that looks interesting. I like what that they are trying to make > plan 9 a bit > > more accessible by using familiar programs and closing the gap between > modern unix > > and the plan 9 ideas. However, I think I'll rather keep vanilla plan 9 > or 9front > > (rio is still better than X11, sorry). > > But nontheless, it's a great idea and I hope they keep up the great wor= k. > > > > adrian > > > > > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. Juli 2015 um 00:15 Uhr > > Von: "Axel Belinfante" > > An: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net> > > Betreff: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 > > > > I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found in > http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699 > > > > "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang= =E2=80=9D. > > > > So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9. > > More details, including the feature list below, are at > http://harvey-os.org[http://harvey-os.org] > > > > Features > > > > =E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit > > =E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system > > =E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!) > > =E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no n= eed to > change anything else > > =E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system > > =E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available > > =E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new > fileserver, native toolchain and more > > > > I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey's = headers and libs, no need > to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 > > I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80=9D stuff= to Harvey? > > > > The team list contains names well-known on this list... > > > > I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out. > > > > Axel. > > > > > > On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez rymg19@gmail.com]> wrote: > > > > No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9. > > > > On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "steve@quintile.net[steve@quintile.net= ]" > wrote: > > not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc? > > > > if so does gcc run under Harvey? > > > > does gcc run under plan9 now? > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez rymg19@gmail.com]> wrote: > > > > > https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-syste= m-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b[https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-= tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b] > > > > I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and > found it interesting. > > > > I found this part particularly neat: > > > >> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known > tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a > modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very > difficult to have. > > > > -- > > Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > -- > > Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > --001a113c2c3e0cec4d051bc61a74 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

i was gonna suggest as per rob's post that chan.c was = a good place to check for gcc introduced code. anyone actually going to dif= f the code or is it all going to be speculation?

brucee<= /div>

On Sun= , Jul 26, 2015 at 9:01 PM, steve@quin= tile.net <steve@quintile.net> wrote:

if there was a way to run apt-get on plan9 and run standard Linux tools, li= ke Firefox and thunderbird, and gcc then I would be a very happy old progra= mmer.

I did some work on extending cinap's amazing linuxemu some years ago bu= t modern Linux has evolved to the point where even this becomes very painfu= l. a bsdemu might be easier, but I haven't looked into that.

just being able to run gcc in arm/thumb cross mode would be great. I know k= enc will build arm but I need to keep source compatibility with the rest of= the team, who use gcc - on windows!

it is still a battle to keep plan9 running at work, though so far, even if = I haven't won, I haven't lost either.

-Steve

> On 26 Jul 2015, at 10:35, a.rege= nfuss@gmx.de wrote:
>
>
> Hm, that looks interesting. I like what that they are trying to make p= lan 9 a bit
> more accessible by using familiar programs and closing the gap between= modern unix
> and the plan 9 ideas. However, I think I'll rather keep vanilla pl= an 9 or 9front
> (rio is still better than X11, sorry).
> But nontheless, it's a great idea and I hope they keep up the grea= t work.
>
> adrian
>
>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. Juli 2015 um 00:15 Uhr
> Von: "Axel Belinfante" <axel.belinfante@utwente.nl>
> An: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
> Betreff: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 >
> I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found in http://www.= osnews.com/comments/28699
>
> "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and = clang=E2=80=9D.
>
> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
> More details, including the feature list below, are at http://harvey-os.org= [= http://harvey-os.org]
>
> Features
>
> =E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit
> =E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system
> =E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
> =E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs,= no need to change anything else
> =E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system
> =E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available
> =E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new= fileserver, native toolchain and more
>
> I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey&#= 39;s headers and libs, no need to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 > I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80=9D stuf= f to Harvey?
>
> The team list contains names well-known on this list...
>
> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
>
> Axel.
>
>
> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez <rymg19@gmail.com[rymg19@g= mail.com]> wrote:
>
> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
>
> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "steve@quintile.net[steve@q= uintile.net]" <steve@quin= tile.net[steve@quintile.net]&= gt; wrote:
> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc? >
> if so does gcc run under Harvey?
>
> does gcc run under plan9 now?
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez <rymg19@gmail.com[rymg19@g= mail.com]> wrote:
>
> https://medium.com/this-is-= not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-308141= 4e5f0b[https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-= system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b]
>
> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit a= nd found it interesting.
>
> I found this part particularly neat:
>
>> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well know= n tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a mod= ern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very diff= icult to have.
>
> --
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> --
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

--001a113c2c3e0cec4d051bc61a74-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 08:50:01 -0700 From: Anthony Martin To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <20150726155001.GA8303@dinah> References: <50977FDF-8544-41E2-89B7-0369D26C980E@gmail.com> <6D6B26D6-EFC0-4B29-97E7-3DC74A8B1F4C@quintile.net> <56D2E1DC-FA8E-410A-8EBD-7A260AF6FA0B@gmail.com>

MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63355972-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 Prof Brucee once said: > i was gonna suggest as per rob's post that chan.c was a good place to check > for gcc introduced code. anyone actually going to diff the code or is it > all going to be speculation? I looked. The diff is basically s/uvlong/uint64_t/; s/MOVL/movl/ and the addition of some gopher droppings. Anthony From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 10:33:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37f54ed1-6dfd-4521-94e1-f2bb01dfe5c3@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: From: erik quanstrom To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 634a8bee-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 PHAgZGlyPSJsdHIiPmp1c3Qgc3BlYWtpbmcgZm9yIG15c2VsZiwgSSBmb3VuZCB0aGUgZmFjdCB0 aGF0IHBsYW4gOSB3YXMgYSBzZWxmIGNvbnRhaW5lZCB0aGluZyB0byBiZSBhIG11c3QgaGF2ZS4m bmJzcDsgaSBkb24ndCBjb25zaWRlciB0aGUgZ2NjIHRvb2xjaGFpbiB0byBiZSBhIGZlYXR1cmUu Jm5ic3A7IDwvcD4KPHAgZGlyPSJsdHIiPmlmICJmYXN0IGNvbXBpbGF0aW9uIiBpcyBhIGZlYXR1 cmUgb3ZlciBwbGFuIDksIEknZCBsaWtlIHRvIHNlZSBzb21lIG51bWJlcnMuPC9wPgo8cCBkaXI9 Imx0ciI+LSBlcmlrPGJyPgo8L3A+CjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX3F1b3RlIj5PbiBKdWwgMjUs 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bG9ja3F1b3RlPjwvZGl2Pg== From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37f54ed1-6dfd-4521-94e1-f2bb01dfe5c3@email.android.com> References: <37f54ed1-6dfd-4521-94e1-f2bb01dfe5c3@email.android.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 19:54:34 +0200 Message-ID: From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6353ba70-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 Who claimed fast compilation was a motive? >>From what I understand this is all about being able to use gdb for debuggin= g. It makes sense to me, but it might still be subjective. If you care I will explain my experience: Some longer time ago I tried gdb for disassembling some secret binary, but quickly gave up cause of the complex interface and reverted to objdump instead. I wasted a lot of time and that made me hate gdb a lot. Now, much later I started using gdb again, cause as long as it has access to the source analyzing coredumps is very easy. It's a better workflow than my printf() debugging, because the Makefiles of the project I'm working on are so complex and broken that everybody avoids compiling (takes too long). I have seen many complaints in Ron's commit logs about makefiles, too. I'm fairly certain that for Harvey and Akaros they're pretty much forced just like me into a coredump-driven development workflow. tldr: gcc is needed so that we can use gdb so that we don't have to compile as often so that we can fix bugs faster. On 7/26/15, erik quanstrom wrote: > just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self contain= ed > thing to be a must have.=C2=A0 i don't consider the gcc toolchain to be a > feature. > > if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some > numbers. > > - erik > > On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante > <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Daxel.belinfante@utwente.nl]axel.belinfante@utwente= .nl> > wrote: >> >> I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found >> in=C2=A0[http://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.osnews.com%2Fcom= ments%2F28699&sa=3DD&sntz=3D1&usg=3DAFQjCNGHKFWanYoFNYbSy6In7LAXtMi-tg]http= ://www.osnews.com/comments/28699 >> >> "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang= =E2=80=9D. >> >> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9. >> >> More details, including the feature list below, are >> at=C2=A0[http://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fharvey-os.org&sa=3DD= &sntz=3D1&usg=3DAFQjCNErZ4XfGFvsgbhV-uqEiG8K2pSdYQ]http://harvey-os.org >> >> Features >> >> =E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit >> =E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system >> =E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!) >> =E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no ne= ed to >> change anything else >> =E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system >> =E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available >> =E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new f= ileserver, >> native toolchain and more >> >> I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey's h= eaders and libs, no need >> to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 >> I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80=9D stuff = to Harvey? >> >> The team list contains names well-known on this list... >> >> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out. >> >> Axel. >> >>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez >>> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Drymg19@gmail.com]rymg19@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9. >> >> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, >> "[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Dsteve@quintile.net]steve@quintile.net" >> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Dsteve@quintile.net]steve@quintile.net> wrote: >>> >>> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc? >>> >>> if so does gcc run under Harvey? >>> >>> does gcc run under plan9 now? >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez >>> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Drymg19@gmail.com]rymg19@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> [https://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2Fthis-is-not= -a-monad-tutorial%2Fharvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414= e5f0b&sa=3DD&sntz=3D1&usg=3DAFQjCNFKZSymwu8nNoZ6I7kp6PyVvp9A1g]https://medi= um.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-= s-shadow-3081414e5f0b >>>> >>>> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and >>>> found it interesting. >>>> >>>> I found this part particularly neat: >>>> >>>> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known >>>> > tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in = a >>>> > modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be >>>> > very difficult to have. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> >> -- >> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <37f54ed1-6dfd-4521-94e1-f2bb01dfe5c3@email.android.com> References: <37f54ed1-6dfd-4521-94e1-f2bb01dfe5c3@email.android.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 18:58:32 +0100 Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043893373895c8051bcafcec Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6358a710-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --f46d043893373895c8051bcafcec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 26 July 2015 at 18:33, erik quanstrom wrote: > if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some > numbers. That wasn't the point, I think. The mention of speed was rather that on fast enough hardware the speed with gcc isn't that bad, so you can use that. (That misses another point, but that's not relevant here.) The aim in using gcc wasn't the speed, but to produce an environment that was compatible with all the existing software (not POSIX -- although it says that -- being "POSIX" is both too little and too much). --f46d043893373895c8051bcafcec Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On 26 July 2015 at 18:33, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>= ; wrote:

if "fast compilation= " is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some numbers.

That wasn't the point, I think. The mention of speed was = rather that on fast enough hardware the speed with gcc isn't that bad,<= /div>

so you can use that. (That misses another p= oint, but that's not relevant here.)

The aim in using gcc wasn't the spee= d, but to produce an environment that was compatible with all the existing = software

(not POSIX -- although it says tha= t -- being "POSIX" is both too little and too much).

--f46d043893373895c8051bcafcec-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <37f54ed1-6dfd-4521-94e1-f2bb01dfe5c3@email.android.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 From: Ryan Gonzalez Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:01:11 -0500 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> Message-ID: <91235766-25A9-49A1-91B9-1926CAB630E4@gmail.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 635ceff0-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 You forgot about my favorite use of gdb: $ gdb --args a b c gdb> run # wait for segfault gdb> bt ... gdb> quit On July 26, 2015 12:54:34 PM CDT, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote: >Who claimed fast compilation was a motive? >>>From what I understand this is all about being able to use gdb for >debugging. > >It makes sense to me, but it might still be subjective. >If you care I will explain my experience: > >Some longer time ago I tried gdb for disassembling some secret binary, >but quickly gave up cause of the complex interface and reverted to >objdump instead. I wasted a lot of time and that made me hate gdb a >lot. > >Now, much later I started using gdb again, cause as long as it has >access to the source analyzing coredumps is very easy. It's a better >workflow than my printf() debugging, because the Makefiles of the >project I'm working on are so complex and broken that everybody avoids >compiling (takes too long). >I have seen many complaints in Ron's commit logs about makefiles, too. >I'm fairly certain that for Harvey and Akaros they're pretty much >forced just like me into a coredump-driven development workflow. > >tldr: gcc is needed so that we can use gdb so that we don't have to >compile as often so that we can fix bugs faster. > >On 7/26/15, erik quanstrom wrote: >> just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self >contained >> thing to be a must have.=C2=A0 i don't consider the gcc toolchain to b= e a >> feature. >> >> if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some >> numbers. >> >> - erik >> >> On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante >> ><[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Daxel.belinfante@utwente.nl]axel.belinfante@utwent= e.nl> >> wrote: >>> >>> I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found >>> >in=C2=A0[http://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.osnews.com%2Fcom= ments%2F28699&sa=3DD&sntz=3D1&usg=3DAFQjCNGHKFWanYoFNYbSy6In7LAXtMi-tg]ht= tp://www.osnews.com/comments/28699 >>> >>> "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and >clang=E2=80=9D. >>> >>> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9. >>> >>> More details, including the feature list below, are >>> >at=C2=A0[http://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fharvey-os.org&sa=3DD= &sntz=3D1&usg=3DAFQjCNErZ4XfGFvsgbhV-uqEiG8K2pSdYQ]http://harvey-os.org >>> >>> Features >>> >>> =E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit >>> =E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system >>> =E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!) >>> =E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no= need >to >>> change anything else >>> =E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system >>> =E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available >>> =E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, ne= w >fileserver, >>> native toolchain and more >>> >>> I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey'= s headers and libs, no >need >>> to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 >>> I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80=9D stu= ff to Harvey? >>> >>> The team list contains names well-known on this list... >>> >>> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out. >>> >>> Axel. >>> >>>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez >>>> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Drymg19@gmail.com]rymg19@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9. >>> >>> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, >>> "[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Dsteve@quintile.net]steve@quintile.net" >>> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Dsteve@quintile.net]steve@quintile.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc? >>>> >>>> if so does gcc run under Harvey? >>>> >>>> does gcc run under plan9 now? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez >>>> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Drymg19@gmail.com]rymg19@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >[https://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2Fthis-is-not-a= -monad-tutorial%2Fharvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414= e5f0b&sa=3DD&sntz=3D1&usg=3DAFQjCNFKZSymwu8nNoZ6I7kp6PyVvp9A1g]https://me= dium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-pla= n-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b >>>>> >>>>> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit >and >>>>> found it interesting. >>>>> >>>>> I found this part particularly neat: >>>>> >>>>> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well >known >>>>> > tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have >in a >>>>> > modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 >would be >>>>> > very difficult to have. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >>> >> --=20 Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <37f54ed1-6dfd-4521-94e1-f2bb01dfe5c3@email.android.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 19:22:50 +0100 Message-ID: From: Charles Forsyth To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043893371a4a94051bcb5340 Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 636cecd4-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --f46d043893371a4a94051bcb5340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 26 July 2015 at 18:58, Charles Forsyth wrote: > an environment that was compatible with all the existing software although that's rapidly becoming incompatible with itself. for instance, in an unrelated forum, someone observes: "clang provides __attribute__((overloadable)), which enables a limited version of C++-style name-mangling based polymorphism, so that you don't have to write a _Generic wrapper for each function." --f46d043893371a4a94051bcb5340 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On 26 July 2015 at 18:58, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.c= om> wrote:

an environment t= hat was compatible with all the existing software

alt= hough that's rapidly becoming incompatible with itself. for instance, i= n an unrelated forum, someone observes:

"clang= =C2=A0provides=C2=A0__attribute__((overloadable)), which enables a limited version of C++-style name-mangling based= polymorphism, so that you don't have to write a=C2=A0

_Generic=C2=A0wrapper for each function."



--f46d043893371a4a94051bcb5340--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 12:52:42 -0700
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: 
From: erik quanstrom 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6388be3c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

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From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 06:02:21 +1000
Message-ID: 
From: Prof Brucee 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b414292006cf2051bccb7e5
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 638d3a3e-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

--047d7b414292006cf2051bccb7e5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've never understood the fascination with gdb. To me it's just turgid.

I like saying "acid has always worked for me" because it's a fun thing to
say but not only is it painlessly useful it is programmable. stk and leak
are pretty neat.

brucee

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:52 AM, erik quanstrom 
wrote:

> hmm.  neither db nor acid work for you?  I've found acid to be much easie=
r
> to use than gdb, but on my plan 9 projects a few prints are quicker for m=
e
> than messing with a debugger.
>
> unless harvey has added core dumps to plan 9, then post trap debugging
> would be via broken processes not core dumps.
>
> why are you forced into core dump driven development.  that makes it
> should like the environment isn't an effective on for development.
>
> - erik
>
>
> On Jul 26, 2015 10:54 AM, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Who claimed fast compilation was a motive?
> > From what I understand this is all about being able to use gdb for
> debugging.
> >
> > It makes sense to me, but it might still be subjective.
> > If you care I will explain my experience:
> >
> > Some longer time ago I tried gdb for disassembling some secret binary,
> > but quickly gave up cause of the complex interface and reverted to
> > objdump instead. I wasted a lot of time and that made me hate gdb a
> > lot.
> >
> > Now, much later I started using gdb again, cause as long as it has
> > access to the source analyzing coredumps is very easy. It's a better
> > workflow than my printf() debugging, because the Makefiles of the
> > project I'm working on are so complex and broken that everybody avoids
> > compiling (takes too long).
> > I have seen many complaints in Ron's commit logs about makefiles, too.
> > I'm fairly certain that for Harvey and Akaros they're pretty much
> > forced just like me into a coredump-driven development workflow.
> >
> > tldr: gcc is needed so that we can use gdb so that we don't have to
> > compile as often so that we can fix bugs faster.
> >
> > On 7/26/15, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> > > just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self
> contained
> > > thing to be a must have.  i don't consider the gcc toolchain to be a
> > > feature.
> > >
> > > if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some
> > > numbers.
> > >
> > > - erik
> > >
> > > On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante
> > > <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Daxel.belinfante@utwente.nl]axel.belinfante@utw=
ente.nl
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found
> > >> in [
> http://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.osnews.com%2Fcomments%2F28=
699&sa=3DD&sntz=3D1&usg=3DAFQjCNGHKFWanYoFNYbSy6In7LAXtMi-tg]http://www.osn=
ews.com/comments/28699
> > >>
> > >> "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and
> clang=E2=80=9D.
> > >>
> > >> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
> > >>
> > >> More details, including the feature list below, are
> > >> at [
> http://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fharvey-os.org&sa=3DD&sntz=3D1&=
usg=3DAFQjCNErZ4XfGFvsgbhV-uqEiG8K2pSdYQ]http://harvey-os.org
> > >>
> > >> Features
> > >>
> > >> =E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit
> > >> =E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system
> > >> =E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
> > >> =E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, n=
o need to
> > >> change anything else
> > >> =E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system
> > >> =E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available
> > >> =E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, n=
ew
> fileserver,
> > >> native toolchain and more
> > >>
> > >> I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey=
's headers and libs, no
> need
> > >> to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94
> > >> I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80=9D st=
uff to Harvey?
> > >>
> > >> The team list contains names well-known on this list...
> > >>
> > >> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
> > >>
> > >> Axel.
> > >>
> > >>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez
> > >>> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Drymg19@gmail.com]rymg19@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
> > >>
> > >> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT,
> > >> "[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Dsteve@quintile.net]steve@quintile.net"
> > >> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Dsteve@quintile.net]steve@quintile.net> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?
> > >>>
> > >>> if so does gcc run under Harvey?
> > >>>
> > >>> does gcc run under plan9 now?
> > >>>
> > >>> Steve
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez
> > >>> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Drymg19@gmail.com]rymg19@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> [
> https://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2Fthis-is-not-a-m=
onad-tutorial%2Fharvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0=
b&sa=3DD&sntz=3D1&usg=3DAFQjCNFKZSymwu8nNoZ6I7kp6PyVvp9A1g]https://medium.c=
om/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-sh=
adow-3081414e5f0b
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit a=
nd
> > >>>> found it interesting.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I found this part particularly neat:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well
> known
> > >>>> > tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have
> in a
> > >>>> > modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 woul=
d
> be
> > >>>> > very difficult to have.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>

--047d7b414292006cf2051bccb7e5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've never understood the fascination with gdb. To me =
it's just turgid.
I like saying "acid has alway=
s worked for me" because it's a fun thing to say but not only is i=
t painlessly useful it is programmable. stk and leak are pretty neat.=

brucee

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:52 AM, erik quanstrom <=
quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
hmm.=C2=A0 neither db nor acid work for you?=C2=A0 I've found acid t=
o be much easier to use than gdb, but on my plan 9 projects a few prints ar=
e quicker for me than messing with a debugger.



unless harvey has added core dumps to plan 9, then post trap debugging woul=
d be via broken processes not core dumps.



why are you forced into core dump driven development.=C2=A0 that makes it s=
hould like the environment isn't an effective on for development.



- erik





On Jul 26, 2015 10:54 AM, hiro <23hi=
ro@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Who claimed fast compilation was a motive?

> From what I understand this is all about being able to use gdb for deb=
ugging.

>

> It makes sense to me, but it might still be subjective.

> If you care I will explain my experience:

>

> Some longer time ago I tried gdb for disassembling some secret binary,=


> but quickly gave up cause of the complex interface and reverted to

> objdump instead. I wasted a lot of time and that made me hate gdb a
> lot.

>

> Now, much later I started using gdb again, cause as long as it has

> access to the source analyzing coredumps is very easy. It's a bett=
er

> workflow than my printf() debugging, because the Makefiles of the

> project I'm working on are so complex and broken that everybody av=
oids

> compiling (takes too long).

> I have seen many complaints in Ron's commit logs about makefiles, =
too.

> I'm fairly certain that for Harvey and Akaros they're pretty m=
uch

> forced just like me into a coredump-driven development workflow.

>

> tldr: gcc is needed so that we can use gdb so that we don't have t=
o

> compile as often so that we can fix bugs faster.

>

> On 7/26/15, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

> > just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self=
 contained

> > thing to be a must have.=C2=A0 i don't consider the gcc toolc=
hain to be a

> > feature.

> >

> > if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd=
 like to see some

> > numbers.

> >

> > - erik

> >

> > On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante

> > <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Daxel.belinfante@utwente.nl]axel.belinfante@utwente.nl>

> > wrote:

> >>

> >> I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found

> >> in=C2=A0[http://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.osnews.com%2Fcomments%2F28699&sa=3DD&sntz=3D1&usg=3DAFQjCNGHK=
FWanYoFNYbSy6In7LAXtMi-tg]http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699

> >>

> >> "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with=
 gcc and clang=E2=80=9D.

> >>

> >> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.

> >>

> >> More details, including the feature list below, are

> >> at=C2=A0[http:/=
/www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fharvey-os.org&sa=3DD&sntz=3D1&=
amp;usg=3DAFQjCNErZ4XfGFvsgbhV-uqEiG8K2pSdYQ]http://harvey-os.org

> >>

> >> Features

> >>

> >> =E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit

> >> =E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system

> >> =E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)

> >> =E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers =
and libs, no need to

> >> change anything else

> >> =E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system

> >> =E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available

> >> =E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty dr=
iver, new fileserver,

> >> native toolchain and more

> >>

> >> I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using=
 Harvey's headers and libs, no need

> >> to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94

> >> I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=
=80=9D stuff to Harvey?

> >>

> >> The team list contains names well-known on this list...

> >>

> >> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
> >>

> >> Axel.

> >>

> >>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez

> >>> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Drymg19@gmail.com]r=
ymg19@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>

> >> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9=
.

> >>

> >> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT,

> >> "[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Dsteve@quintile.net]steve@quintile.net"

> >> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Dsteve@quintile.net]steve@quintile.net> wrote:

> >>>

> >>> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to bui=
ld on gcc?

> >>>

> >>> if so does gcc run under Harvey?

> >>>

> >>> does gcc run under plan9 now?

> >>>

> >>> Steve

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez

> >>> <[?&cs=3Dwh&v=3Db&to=3Drymg19@gmail.com]r=
ymg19@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> [https://www.google.com/url?q=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmediu=
m.com%2Fthis-is-not-a-monad-tutorial%2Fharvey-an-operating-system-with-plan=
-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b&sa=3DD&sntz=3D1&usg=3DAFQjCNFKZSymwu8n=
NoZ6I7kp6PyVvp9A1g]https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-a=
n-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b

> >>>>

> >>>> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just s=
aw it on Reddit and

> >>>> found it interesting.

> >>>>

> >>>> I found this part particularly neat:

> >>>>

> >>>> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have=
 most of well known

> >>>> > tools and programs that programmers or end users=
 expects to have in a

> >>>> > modern operating system. Things that for traditi=
onal Plan 9 would be

> >>>> > very difficult to have.

> >>>>

> >>>> --

> >>>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my =
brevity.

> >>

> >>

> >> --

> >> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.=


> >>

> >

>

>




--047d7b414292006cf2051bccb7e5--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
References: <37f54ed1-6dfd-4521-94e1-f2bb01dfe5c3@email.android.com>
From: "steve@quintile.net" 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary=Apple-Mail-F678CCAE-A461-4A36-A93D-8541CBE644F7
In-Reply-To: <37f54ed1-6dfd-4521-94e1-f2bb01dfe5c3@email.android.com>
Message-Id: 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 21:13:23 +0100
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6396e41c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025


--Apple-Mail-F678CCAE-A461-4A36-A93D-8541CBE644F7
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

don't get me wrong, I don't want gcc, but my employer requires it, and I wou=
ld rather develop on plan even if I cannot develop for plan9.

I do this at present, my main machine is a pi2, and my gcc, Firefox, and out=
look co-processor is a windows laptop. it works, but I resent carting a lapt=
op around.

-Steve




> On 26 Jul 2015, at 18:33, erik quanstrom  wrote:
>=20
> just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self containe=
d thing to be a must have.  i don't consider the gcc toolchain to be a featu=
re.=20
>=20
> if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some numbe=
rs.
>=20
> - erik
> On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante  wrot=
e:
> I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found in http://www.osnews.com/comm=
ents/28699
>=20
> 	"Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and cl=
ang=E2=80=9D.
>=20
> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
>=20
> More details, including the feature list below, are at http://harvey-os.or=
g
> =09
> 	Features
>=20
> 	=E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit
> 	=E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system
> 	=E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
> 	=E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, n=
o need to change anything else
> 	=E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the whole system
> 	=E2=80=A2 All Plan9 userland apps available
> 	=E2=80=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, n=
ew fileserver, native toolchain and more
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccompile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey's hea=
ders and libs, no need to change anything else=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94
> I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9Cport=E2=80=9D stuff to=
 Harvey?
>=20
> The team list contains names well-known on this list...
>=20
> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
>=20
> Axel.
>=20
> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez  wrote:
>=20
> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
>=20
> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "steve@quintile.net" =
 wrote:
> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?
>=20
> if so does gcc run under Harvey?
>=20
> does gcc run under plan9 now?
>=20
> Steve
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez  wrote:
>=20
> https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system=
-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
>=20
> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and found=
 it interesting.
>=20
> I found this part particularly neat:
>=20
> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known tool=
s and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a modern ope=
rating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very difficult to=
 have.
>=20
> --=20
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>=20
> --=20
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>=20

--Apple-Mail-F678CCAE-A461-4A36-A93D-8541CBE644F7
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

don't get me wrong, I don't want gcc, b=
ut my employer requires it, and I would rather develop on plan even if I can=
not develop for plan9.

I do this at present, my mai=
n machine is a pi2, and my gcc, Firefox, and outlook co-processor is a windo=
ws laptop. it works, but I resent carting a laptop around.

-Steve




On=
 26 Jul 2015, at 18:33, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:

just speaking for myself, I found the fact that p=
lan 9 was a self contained thing to be a must have.  i don't consider t=
he gcc toolchain to be a feature.  
if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to s=
ee some numbers.
- erik


On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante <axel.belinfante@utwente.nl>=
 wrote:
I couldn=E2=80=99t resist looking, and found in http://www.osnews.com/comments/286=
99

	"Harvey is an effort=
 to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang=E2=80=9D.

So, in a=
 way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
More details, including the fe=
ature list below, are at http://harvey=
-os.org
	
	Features

	=E2=80=A2 AMD 64 bit
=
	=E2=80=A2 Modern, simplified syscall system
	=E2=80=A2 GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
=
	=E2=80=A2 Compile in Linux o=
r OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to change anything else
	=E2=80=A2 Fast compilation of the wh=
ole system
	=E2=80=A2 All Plan9 u=
serland apps available
	=E2=80=
=A2 Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new fileserver,=
 native toolchain and more

I=E2=80=99m intrigued by the =E2=80=9Ccomp=
ile =E2=80=A6 using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to change anything el=
se=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94
I guess that means that it will be easy to =E2=80=9C=
port=E2=80=9D stuff to Harvey?

The team list contains names well-know=
n on this list...

I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth check=
ing out.

Axel.
On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58=
, Ryan Gonzalez <rymg19@gmail.com=
> wrote:


No clue. I'm guessing it's h=
eavily inspired by Plan 9.

On July 25, 201=
5 3:34:13 AM CDT, "steve@quintile.net<=
/a>" <steve@quintile.net> wr=
ote:
not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?
if so does gcc run under Harvey?

does gcc run u=
nder plan9 now?

Steve


=


On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez <rymg19@gmail.com> wrote:

https://med=
ium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-=
s-shadow-3081414e5f0b



I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and found i=
t interesting.



I found this part particularly neat:



> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known too=
ls and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a modern op=
erating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very difficult t=
o have.



-- 

Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


-- 

Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


=

--Apple-Mail-F678CCAE-A461-4A36-A93D-8541CBE644F7--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: 
References: <37f54ed1-6dfd-4521-94e1-f2bb01dfe5c3@email.android.com>
	
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 22:47:04 +0200
Message-ID: 
From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63a08f4e-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

I'm trying to argue from a Linux point of view.



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 13:50:18 -0700
Message-ID: <86ccc518-dc14-4f01-97e0-7a632cbea3fa@email.android.com>
In-Reply-To: 
From: erik quanstrom 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63b09c2c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

d3JvbmcgbGlzdD8gIDstKQoKT24gSnVsIDI2LCAyMDE1IDE6NDcgUE0sIGhpcm8gPDIzaGlyb0Bn
bWFpbC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4gSSdtIHRyeWluZyB0byBhcmd1ZSBmcm9tIGEgTGludXggcG9p
bnQgb2Ygdmlldy4gCj4KPgo=




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <86ccc518-dc14-4f01-97e0-7a632cbea3fa@email.android.com>
References: 
	<86ccc518-dc14-4f01-97e0-7a632cbea3fa@email.android.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 22:59:11 +0200
Message-ID: 
From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63b4badc-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

I haven't had enough time with acid yet, indeed printf was always good
enough for 9front.
I personally wouldn't try fixing firefox' memory leaks with acid. And
if you post on ubuntuforums about bugs in mainstream software I'm sure
they won't help you if you say you can only debug with acid, in the
worst case they might call the police, not understanding what acid is.



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 19:18:35 -0700
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: 
From: erik quanstrom 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63cc7a82-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

Ck9uIEp1bCAyNiwgMjAxNSAxOjU5IFBNLCBoaXJvIDwyM2hpcm9AZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToK
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b3Q/Cgo+IGlmIHlvdSBwb3N0IG9uIHVidW50dWZvcnVtcyBhYm91dCBidWdzIGluIG1haW5zdHJl
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biBpIG5lZWQgdG8gcnVuIExpbnV4IHByb2dyYW1zLCBpIHJ1biBsaW51eC4KCndoYXQgaXMgdGhl
IGJlbmVmaXQgb2YgcnVubmluZyBmaXJlZm94IG9uIGEgcDkgbGlrZSBzeXN0ZW0sIHJhdGhlciB0
aGFuIG9uIGxpbnV4PyBwOXAgZG9lcyBhIGdvb2Qgam9iIG9mIGJyaW5naW5nIHNvbWUgcDkgZ29v
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IHN0YXJlcyBpZiBtZW50aW9uZWQgaW4gYSBidWcgcmVwb3J0LgoKLSBlcmlrCgo=




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 11:06:19 +0200
Message-ID: 
From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63d0bbf6-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

>> I personally wouldn't try fixing firefox' memory leaks with acid
>
> why not?

Same reason you're stating below. I agree with you.

> when i need to run Linux programs, i run linux.

> what is the benefit of running firefox on a p9 like system, rather than on
> linux? p9p does a good job of bringing some p9 goodness to linux. the
> opposite is also likely to draw blank stares if mentioned in a bug report.

I also agree with your question. I guess it's not just me whose mind
is baffled after all.



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: 
	
	
From: =?UTF-8?B?QXJhbSBIxIN2xINybmVhbnU=?= 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 14:08:17 +0200
Message-ID: 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63d5317c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

GCC is not a very slow C compiler in term of compiled LOC/s (although
the difference in speed between -O0 and -O3 is embarrassing). What
makes compiling Unix software so slow, is the way source code is
organised, headers which include headers, cpp having to generate lots
of code, and all the other Unix crap.

Once I investigated why a 15MLOC project took over an hour to build.
Apparently, on average, each file was processed over 2,000 times;
precompiled headers helped somewhat, but even with precompiled
headers, each header was still individually compiled over 200 times.

I'd expect GCC compiling Plan 9 at a speed reasonably comparable to kencc.

I will refrain making comments on how wise that is, however.

--=20
Aram H=C4=83v=C4=83rneanu



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 14:44:29 +0100
Message-ID: 
From: Charles Forsyth 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6700df8850c3051bdb8df5
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63e064d4-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

--047d7b6700df8850c3051bdb8df5
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On 27 July 2015 at 13:08, Aram H=C4=83v=C4=83rneanu  wrote:

> 'd expect GCC compiling Plan 9 at a speed reasonably comparable to kencc.


I used gcc for one of my own OS projects years ago, without all the
#include crud.
It is slow. For one thing, it still(!) produces textual assembly code
(because the PDP-11 compiler did that)
which must then be assembled.

--047d7b6700df8850c3051bdb8df5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On 27 July 2015 at 13:08, Aram H=C4=83v=C4=83rneanu <<=
a href=3D"mailto:aram.h@mgk.ro" target=3D"_blank">aram.h@mgk.ro> wrote:
'd expect GCC compiling Pl=
an 9 at a speed reasonably comparable to kencc.

I use=
d gcc for one of my own OS projects years ago, without all the #include cru=
d.
It is slow. For one thing, it still(!) p=
roduces textual assembly code (because the PDP-11 compiler did that)<=
div class=3D"gmail_extra">which must then be assembled.



--047d7b6700df8850c3051bdb8df5--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:09:17 +0100
Message-ID: 
From: Charles Forsyth 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040f9f3e3d15d0051bdbe671
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63e50458-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

--f46d040f9f3e3d15d0051bdbe671
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 27 July 2015 at 14:44, Charles Forsyth  wrote:

> It is slow.


But it doesn't matter anyway if your aim is to compile a ton of stuff that
only gcc can compile.

--f46d040f9f3e3d15d0051bdbe671
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On 27 July 2015 at 14:44, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.c=
om> wrote:
It is slow.

But it doesn't matter anyway if your aim is to compil=
e a ton of stuff that only gcc can compile.

--f46d040f9f3e3d15d0051bdbe671--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2102\))
From: Anthony Sorace 
In-Reply-To: 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:19:47 -0400
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <96123511-7440-4177-88F9-90FAD1789C04@9srv.net>
References: 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63e99874-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> erik quanstrom  wrote:
>=20
> when i need to run Linux programs, i run linux.

Yeah, but then you=E2=80=99ve got linux. Now you=E2=80=99ve got two
problems (hah! if only=E2=80=A6).

> what is the benefit of running firefox on a p9 like system,
> rather than on linux?

The theory, anyway, is that you could then not have a linux
(or whatever) system. If the emulation bit could be self-
contained enough, a plan9 system with linuxemu would
have a significantly lower maintenance burden than a plan9
system plus a linux system. In theory.

I=E2=80=99ve never understood why the emulation effort picked
linux, though. It seems like the worst possible thing to be
emulating, and I don=E2=80=99t imagine the software support for the
sort of things we=E2=80=99re talking about (for many, it=E2=80=99s =
pretty
much just a browser) is all that different between Linux and,
say, FreeBSD. Are there a bunch of linux-only apps people
would like to have?




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <96123511-7440-4177-88F9-90FAD1789C04@9srv.net>
References: 
	<96123511-7440-4177-88F9-90FAD1789C04@9srv.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:31:09 +0100
Message-ID: 
From: Charles Forsyth 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6700df6579de051bdc34ba
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63f8ec0c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

--047d7b6700df6579de051bdc34ba
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 27 July 2015 at 15:19, Anthony Sorace  wrote:

> (for many, it=E2=80=99s pretty
> much just a browser)
>

One of the reasons mere POSIX isn't enough is that there are many non-POSIX
tendrils that have worked their way throughout the system,
notably d-bus and now systemd, but there are many others, and the "just a
browser" has started to interact with all of them.
https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=3D388628

--047d7b6700df6579de051bdc34ba
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On 27 July 2015 at 15:19, Anthony Sorace <a@9srv.net> wrote:
(for many, it=E2=80=99s pretty

much just a browser)

One of the reasons mere PO=
SIX isn't enough is that there are many non-POSIX tendrils that have wo=
rked their way throughout the system,

notab=
ly d-bus and now systemd, but there are many others, and the "just a b=
rowser" has started to interact with all of them. https://code.google.co=
m/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=3D388628



--047d7b6700df6579de051bdc34ba--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android
In-Reply-To: <96123511-7440-4177-88F9-90FAD1789C04@9srv.net>
References: 
	<96123511-7440-4177-88F9-90FAD1789C04@9srv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=UTF-8
From: Ryan Gonzalez 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:03:04 -0500
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>,
	Anthony Sorace 
Message-ID: 
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 63fd394c-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025



On July 27, 2015 9:19:47 AM CDT, Anthony Sorace  wrote:
>> erik quanstrom  wrote:
>>=20
>> when i need to run Linux programs, i run linux.
>
>Yeah, but then you=E2=80=99ve got linux. Now you=E2=80=99ve got two
>problems (hah! if only=E2=80=A6).
>
>> what is the benefit of running firefox on a p9 like system,
>> rather than on linux?
>
>The theory, anyway, is that you could then not have a linux
>(or whatever) system. If the emulation bit could be self-
>contained enough, a plan9 system with linuxemu would
>have a significantly lower maintenance burden than a plan9
>system plus a linux system. In theory.
>
>I=E2=80=99ve never understood why the emulation effort picked
>linux, though. It seems like the worst possible thing to be
>emulating, and I don=E2=80=99t imagine the software support for the
>sort of things we=E2=80=99re talking about (for many, it=E2=80=99s prett=
y
>much just a browser) is all that different between Linux and,
>say, FreeBSD. Are there a bunch of linux-only apps people
>would like to have?

I always thought is was that emulating an open-source application platfor=
m is easier than emulating a black box like Wine does, as you can see how=
 things are done and the internal APIs and stuff.


--=20
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<96123511-7440-4177-88F9-90FAD1789C04@9srv.net>
	
User-Agent: Type for Android
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Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----JYO1EC5W03S9YFD32X3THXI59IX1WO"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Stanley Lieber 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 11:13:02 -0400
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-ID: <1f38f984-0e66-4f94-b5d8-f28d5af8ec06@typeapp.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6401905a-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

------JYO1EC5W03S9YFD32X3THXI59IX1WO
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

in some cases, plan 9's coincidental inability to run modern programs that =
do unpredictable and undesirable things is a useful feature=2E mothra, for =
example, doesn't even handle many html tags, but it also doesn't execute un=
known server-supplied code on my terminal=2E how can i be sure? because the=
 program is small enough to read and understand, and, having done so, i can=
 be reasonably certain that it contains no code to do so=2E quite aside fro=
m having the functions accidentally or surreptitiously enabled, the functio=
ns simply don't exist=2E with most modern "useful" programs (and their depe=
ndencies), understanding the code isn't a valid approach to security, becau=
se your lifetime is too short a span to read -- much less comprehend -- the=
 contents of the source directory=2E this is compounded by numerous and con=
stant revisions to already unreadably massive piles of code=2E

what does a=
 given useful program do? who can really say?

harvey seems interesting, bu=
t its main objective seems inextricably tied to throwing the strength of pl=
an 9's simplicity and relative isolation out the window=2E

sl



On Jul 27=
, 2015, 10:34 AM, at 10:34 AM, Charles Forsyth  wrote:
>On 27 July 2015 at 15:19, Anthony Sorace  wrote:
=
>
>> (for many, it=E2=80=99s pretty
>> much just a browser)
>>
>
>One of th=
e reasons mere POSIX isn't enough is that there are many
>non-POSIX
>tendri=
ls that have worked their way throughout the system,
>notably d-bus and now=
 systemd, but there are many others, and the "just
>a
>browser" has started=
 to interact with all of them=2E
>https://code=2Egoogle=2Ecom/p/chromium/is=
sues/detail?id=3D388628

------JYO1EC5W03S9YFD32X3THXI59IX1WO
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

in some cases, plan 9's coincidenta=
l inability to run modern programs that do unpredictable and undesirable th=
ings is a useful feature=2E mothra, for example, doesn't even handle many h=
tml tags, but it also doesn't execute unknown server-supplied code on my te=
rminal=2E how can i be sure? because the program is small enough to read an=
d understand, and, having done so, i can be reasonably certain that it cont=
ains no code to do so=2E quite aside from having the functions accidentally=
 or surreptitiously enabled, the functions simply don't exist=2E with most =
modern "useful" programs (and their dependencies), understanding the code i=
sn't a valid approach to security, because your lifetime is too short a spa=
n to read -- much less comprehend -- the contents of the source directory=
=2E this is compounded by numerous and constant revisions to already unread=
ably massive piles of code=2E
what does a given useful p=
rogram do? who can really say?
harvey seems interesting,=
 but its main objective seems inextricably tied to throwing the strength of=
 plan 9's simplicity and relative isolation out the window=2E
sl



------JYO1EC5W03S9YFD32X3THXI59IX1WO--




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <7a8405e72add55526691f541dd11fc5f@proxima.alt.za>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 17:14:04 +0200
From: lucio@proxima.alt.za
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6405c27e-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> I always thought is was that emulating an open-source application platform is easier than emulating a black box like Wine does, as you can see how things are done and the internal APIs and stuff.

You're right on that score, but emulating continually-changing bloat
isn't really any easier, in both cases the prognosis is infinitely
remote.

Lucio.




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
To: 9fans@9fans.net
References: <50977FDF-8544-41E2-89B7-0369D26C980E@gmail.com>
From: Daniel Valio 
Message-ID: <55B64D35.5030504@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 12:24:37 -0300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:41.0)
	Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/41.0a2
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <50977FDF-8544-41E2-89B7-0369D26C980E@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 64096776-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

Am I the only one that is really bothered by the name?

It doesn't quite bring good things to mind.

On 24.07.15 21:43, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
> https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
>
> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and
> found it interesting.
>
> I found this part particularly neat:
>
> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known
> tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a
> modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be
> very difficult to have.
>
> --
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: 
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 17:28:27 +0200
From: lucio@proxima.alt.za
In-Reply-To: <55B64D35.5030504@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 640d2866-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> It doesn't quite bring good things to mind.

Are you suggesting that there are bad things out there with a similar
name?  If so, I hope I'm not the only one who doesn't know about them.

Lucio.




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <7a8405e72add55526691f541dd11fc5f@proxima.alt.za>
References: <7a8405e72add55526691f541dd11fc5f@proxima.alt.za>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 17:31:08 +0200
Message-ID: 
From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 64110f4e-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

open source software is often a moving target.
pro tip: only use stable interfaces.



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: 
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 17:36:04 +0200
From: lucio@proxima.alt.za
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6414d584-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> open source software is often a moving target.

Amen.

> pro tip: only use stable interfaces.

Like what?  W3C, or USB or CPU instruction sets?

Lucio.




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android
In-Reply-To: <55B64D35.5030504@gmail.com>
References: <50977FDF-8544-41E2-89B7-0369D26C980E@gmail.com>
	<55B64D35.5030504@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=UTF-8
From: Ryan Gonzalez 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 11:48:22 -0500
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>,
	Daniel Valio 
Message-ID: <70801D6C-8DFA-4C68-8486-BBD6049F8D25@gmail.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6418c64e-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025



On July 27, 2015 10:24:37 AM CDT, Daniel Valio  wrote:
>Am I the only one that is really bothered by the name?
>
>It doesn't quite bring good things to mind.

What?? The Batman character??

>
>On 24.07.15 21:43, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
>>
>https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-syst=
em-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
>>
>> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and=20
>> found it interesting.
>>
>> I found this part particularly neat:
>>
>> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known
>
>> tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a
>
>> modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be=20
>> very difficult to have.
>>
>> --=20
>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.=20

--=20
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <55B68EA0.9040501@yahoo.fr>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 22:03:44 +0200
From: Nicolas Bercher 
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
	rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
References: 	<96123511-7440-4177-88F9-90FAD1789C04@9srv.net>
	
In-Reply-To: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 641d1168-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On 27/07/2015 17:03, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
> I always thought is was that emulating an open-source application
> platform is easier than emulating a black box like Wine does, as you
> can see how things are done and the internal APIs and stuff.

Yeah, but you know that Wine Is Not an Emulator! ;-)

https://www.winehq.org/about/

Nicolas



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
References: <50977FDF-8544-41E2-89B7-0369D26C980E@gmail.com>
	<55B64D35.5030504@gmail.com>
	<70801D6C-8DFA-4C68-8486-BBD6049F8D25@gmail.com>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
From: Daniel Valio 
Message-ID: <55B6A3BF.1070809@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:33:51 -0300
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Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6421386a-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

Lee Harvey Oswald comes to mind to me at least.

In fact, when I was typing "harvey os" into my search bar, "harvey
oswald" was the first autocomplete suggestion.

On 27.07.15 13:48, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
>
> On July 27, 2015 10:24:37 AM CDT, Daniel Valio  wrote:
>> Am I the only one that is really bothered by the name?
>>
>> It doesn't quite bring good things to mind.
> What?? The Batman character??
>
>> On 24.07.15 21:43, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
>> https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
>>> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and
>>> found it interesting.
>>>
>>> I found this part particularly neat:
>>>
>>>> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known
>>> tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a
>>> modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be
>>> very difficult to have.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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References: 
	
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 23:37:55 +0200
Message-ID: 
From: hiro <23hiro@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 64255db4-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

>> pro tip: only use stable interfaces.
>
> Like what?  W3C, or USB or CPU instruction sets?

This sounds so despairing I'm sorry for you. But to answer your
question, it depends on how you use it:
My mouse on the windows 7 desktop is connected via USB and has no outages.
Subsets of HTML 3/4 are still viewable on every browser I have ever used.
Windows 98 still works on my computer.
So, yes.

In general my computer does about exactly what i envisioned 15 years
ago whilst it was not possible yet.



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: 
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 14:42:01 -0700
From: Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com>
In-Reply-To: <55B6A3BF.1070809@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 64294744-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

you are aware of the 9fans' fetish for movies

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042546/

> Lee Harvey Oswald comes to mind to me at least.
>
> In fact, when I was typing "harvey os" into my search bar, "harvey
> oswald" was the first autocomplete suggestion.
>
> On 27.07.15 13:48, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
>>
>> On July 27, 2015 10:24:37 AM CDT, Daniel Valio  wrote:
>>> Am I the only one that is really bothered by the name?
>>>
>>> It doesn't quite bring good things to mind.
>> What?? The Batman character??
>>
>>> On 24.07.15 21:43, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
>>> https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
>>>> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and
>>>> found it interesting.
>>>>
>>>> I found this part particularly neat:
>>>>
>>>>> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known
>>>> tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a
>>>> modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be
>>>> very difficult to have.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <8362681dd13c7e2481f29e8fa3bfeb17@9netics.com>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 14:44:55 -0700
From: Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com>
In-Reply-To: 
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Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 642d1766-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

and rabbits

> you are aware of the 9fans' fetish for movies
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042546/




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <8362681dd13c7e2481f29e8fa3bfeb17@9netics.com>
References: 
	<8362681dd13c7e2481f29e8fa3bfeb17@9netics.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 03:12:03 +0200
Message-ID: 
From: Giacomo Tesio 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b86eb78798b0a051be52842
Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6430f0a2-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

--047d7b86eb78798b0a051be52842
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Il 27/Lug/2015 23:47, "Skip Tavakkolian" <9nut@9netics.com> ha scritto:
>
> > you are aware of the 9fans' fetish for movies
>
> and rabbits

...and feticists. ;-)

--047d7b86eb78798b0a051be52842
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

Il 27/Lug/2015 23:47, "Skip Tavakkolian" <9nut@9netics.com> ha scritto:

>

> > you are aware of the 9fans' fetish for movies

>

> and rabbits
...and feticists. ;-)



--047d7b86eb78798b0a051be52842--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: "Daryl M" 
To: <9fans@9fans.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:49:52 -0700
Message-ID: <00a101d0c8d7$b3973760$1ac5a620$@mc2research.org>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6435d446-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

I may be showing my age, but Harvey was a 6' tall invisible rabbit.
"Harvey", 1950, starring James Stewart, Josephine Hull, Peggy Dow
Due to his insistence that he has an invisible six-foot rabbit for a best
friend, a whimsical middle-aged man is thought by his family to be insane -
but he may be wiser than anyone knows.

The description on the Harvey OS web site implies that this is the source of
the name.

Daryl


-----Original Message-----
On July 27, 2015 10:24:37 AM CDT, Daniel Valio  wrote:
>Am I the only one that is really bothered by the name?
>
>It doesn't quite bring good things to mind.

What?? The Batman character??

>
>On 24.07.15 21:43, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
>>
>https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-sys
>tem-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
>>
>> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and
>> found it interesting.
>>
>> I found this part particularly neat:
>>
>> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known
>
>> tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a
>
>> modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be
>> very difficult to have.
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

--
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.





From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: 
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 07:01:17 +0200
From: lucio@proxima.alt.za
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 643bf808-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> In general my computer does about exactly what i envisioned 15 years
> ago whilst it was not possible yet.

I should now go into a tirade about the price we pay for the features
the marketing departments are foisting on us, but of course, it is not
all bad (I'm not sure if I can call my Galaxy S5 a cloud or the silver
lining) and what is very good is very, very advanced.

Precisely why we don't want it to become, as it is certainly going to
become "indistinguishable from magic".  If that does not worry you and
you are OK with children who won't even know that there is such a
thing as a machine-dependent "assembler", then no further conversation
is possible.

To me, moving science out of technology (how does it work?) is beyond
dangerous.  Where you can no longer predict the behaviour of
non-deterministic programs, you find yourself in a place far too
similar to Nature, where only the strong survive.

Lucio.




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <443a84b560f95c935dfbc1ea444ec321@proxima.alt.za>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 07:29:30 +0200
From: lucio@proxima.alt.za
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 64426c24-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> My mouse on the windows 7 desktop is connected via USB and has no outages.

I still own, but not use - I really ought to - some serial
three-button mice.  I have noi doubt that I would get no outage from
them, too.

And, on a different sidetrack: why is it inconceivable for GCC (or
Clang, for that matter) to be able to bootstrap itself, the way GCC
used to?  Why was it thought sensible to sever that continuity?

Lucio.




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
To: 9fans@9fans.net
References: <00a101d0c8d7$b3973760$1ac5a620$@mc2research.org>
From: Daniel Valio 
Message-ID: <55B77C58.5060703@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 09:58:00 -0300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:41.0)
	Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/41.0a2
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Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 644a89ae-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

I do realize that, of course. It's merely a rather unfortunate
association I can't shake off.

On 27.07.15 22:49, Daryl M wrote:
> I may be showing my age, but Harvey was a 6' tall invisible rabbit.
> "Harvey", 1950, starring James Stewart, Josephine Hull, Peggy Dow
> Due to his insistence that he has an invisible six-foot rabbit for a best
> friend, a whimsical middle-aged man is thought by his family to be insane -
> but he may be wiser than anyone knows.
>
> The description on the Harvey OS web site implies that this is the source of
> the name.
>
> Daryl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> On July 27, 2015 10:24:37 AM CDT, Daniel Valio  wrote:
>> Am I the only one that is really bothered by the name?
>>
>> It doesn't quite bring good things to mind.
> What?? The Batman character??
>
>> On 24.07.15 21:43, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
>> https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-sys
>> tem-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
>>> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and
>>> found it interesting.
>>>
>>> I found this part particularly neat:
>>>
>>>> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known
>>> tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a
>>> modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be
>>> very difficult to have.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> --
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
>
>




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
To: 9fans@9fans.net
References: 
From: Mauro Rezzonico 
Message-ID: <55B79125.7030701@ch23.org>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 16:26:45 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101
	Thunderbird/38.1.0
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Subject: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 64b74882-ead9-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On 07/27/2015 11:42 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> you are aware of the 9fans' fetish for movies
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042546/

         "My mother used to say to me, "Elwood" - she always called me
          Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh-so smart, or
          oh-so pleasant." For years I was smart. I recommend pleasant,
          and you may quote me."
         -- Elwood P. Dowd (portrayed by James Stewart) in Harvey,

Well ... maybe ... this offers a new insight into the matter ...

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_(film)
2. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harvey_(film)
3. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harvey_(film)#Elwood_P._Dowd