Re: [9fans] java on dis

Re: [9fans] java on dis

[OrangeCalx01]

A machine implementing a virtual machine implementing a virtual machine? Oh the latency! Lol. Why not integrate the jvm itself into dis? 

Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Aram Hăvărneanu]

It is not a machine that emulates a machine, but rather a translator
that translates code for one machine to execute on another.

--
Aram Hăvărneanu

Re: [9fans] java on dis

[cinap_lenrek]

brucee has done this already:

http://doc.cat-v.org/inferno/java_on_dis/

--
cinap

Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Charles Forsyth]

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That is the basis for the project proposal: starting by bringing that code
up to date.
Also, the Java side included a ton of Sun proprietary code that can't be
used directly.
(Probably some of it was open-sourced with Java, but it's still a slog to
work it out.)


On 28 April 2013 19:01, <cinap_lenrek@gmx.de> wrote:

> brucee has done this already:
>
> http://doc.cat-v.org/inferno/java_on_dis/
>
> --
> cinap
>
>

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Re: [9fans] java on dis

[cinap_lenrek]

yes, didnt read the original proposal where it explicitely links
tho the paper. sorry for the noise and good luck.

--
cinap

Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Dmitry Kabak]

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Yep, as said Aram, this will be actually a converter that converts compiled
java classes into pure dis code. And there is also 'jvm' program that would
be the class loader and linker, thread monitor and will perform other
functions of the original JVM. So, I think that execution speed shouldn't
be lower than that of limbo.


2013/4/28 <cinap_lenrek@gmx.de>

> yes, didnt read the original proposal where it explicitely links
> tho the paper. sorry for the noise and good luck.
>
> --
> cinap
>
>


--
Regards,
Dmitry Kabak

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Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Marc Chantreux]

hello,

On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:21:21AM -0400, OrangeCalx01 wrote:
> A machine implementing a virtual machine implementing a virtual machine? Oh
> the latency! Lol. Why not integrate the jvm itself into dis?

I really don't know about virtual machines and maybe it's a stupid
question but i'm really currious about it and i really trust the plan9
expertise: why not port inferno on top of the jvm? is this a technical
nonsense? is there some performance/ressources issue or is it just an NIH
manifestation?

regards

Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Sergey Zhilkin]

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There is http://www.vitanuova.com/dist/java.tgz - old java translating
software. It's not legaly free.
I think, Charles knows more :)


2013/4/29 Marc Chantreux <khatar@phear.org>

> hello,
>
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:21:21AM -0400, OrangeCalx01 wrote:
> > A machine implementing a virtual machine implementing a virtual machine?
> Oh
> > the latency! Lol. Why not integrate the jvm itself into dis?
>
> I really don't know about virtual machines and maybe it's a stupid
> question but i'm really currious about it and i really trust the plan9
> expertise: why not port inferno on top of the jvm? is this a technical
> nonsense? is there some performance/ressources issue or is it just an NIH
> manifestation?
>
> regards
>
>


-- 
С наилучшими пожеланиями
Жилкин Сергей
With best regards
Zhilkin Sergey

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Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Bruce Ellis]

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when this thread calms down a bit i'll post some suggestions and hopefully
helpful hints - one of which is that there will be tears.

i'll respond to off list technical questions.

brucee


On 29 April 2013 18:07, Sergey Zhilkin <szhilkin@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is http://www.vitanuova.com/dist/java.tgz - old java translating
> software. It's not legaly free.
> I think, Charles knows more :)
>
>
> 2013/4/29 Marc Chantreux <khatar@phear.org>
>
>> hello,
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:21:21AM -0400, OrangeCalx01 wrote:
>> > A machine implementing a virtual machine implementing a virtual
>> machine? Oh
>> > the latency! Lol. Why not integrate the jvm itself into dis?
>>
>> I really don't know about virtual machines and maybe it's a stupid
>> question but i'm really currious about it and i really trust the plan9
>> expertise: why not port inferno on top of the jvm? is this a technical
>> nonsense? is there some performance/ressources issue or is it just an NIH
>> manifestation?
>>
>> regards
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> С наилучшими пожеланиями
> Жилкин Сергей
> With best regards
> Zhilkin Sergey
>

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Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Dmitry Kabak]

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Hey, I didn't know that sources exist. But anyway, my work is still really
relevant because of the need to update lots of sources to support latest
Java and Inferno. And also to make the whole thing open-sourced, as the
code you posted contains scaring lines like:

This software is provided SOLELY for experiment and evaluation.
NO PORTION may be distributed in ANY FORM, or used commercially,
without executing appropriate licences with Vita Nuova and possibly,
for some portions, Sun Microsystems Inc. Vita Nuova can advise on the
latter once evaluation is complete


2013/4/29 Sergey Zhilkin <szhilkin@gmail.com>

> There is http://www.vitanuova.com/dist/java.tgz - old java translating
> software. It's not legaly free.
> I think, Charles knows more :)
>
>
> 2013/4/29 Marc Chantreux <khatar@phear.org>
>
>> hello,
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:21:21AM -0400, OrangeCalx01 wrote:
>> > A machine implementing a virtual machine implementing a virtual
>> machine? Oh
>> > the latency! Lol. Why not integrate the jvm itself into dis?
>>
>> I really don't know about virtual machines and maybe it's a stupid
>> question but i'm really currious about it and i really trust the plan9
>> expertise: why not port inferno on top of the jvm? is this a technical
>> nonsense? is there some performance/ressources issue or is it just an NIH
>> manifestation?
>>
>> regards
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> С наилучшими пожеланиями
> Жилкин Сергей
> With best regards
> Zhilkin Sergey
>



-- 
Regards,
Dmitry Kabak

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Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Dmitry Kabak]

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I'm happy to see the original author of that project here! Looking at
sources I've already realized that there will be some tears, but I'm
absolutely ready for long hours of really-low-level code, awful debugging
and strange and mystical things :)
Looking forward for your questions and suggestions!


2013/4/29 Bruce Ellis <bruce.ellis@gmail.com>

> when this thread calms down a bit i'll post some suggestions and hopefully
> helpful hints - one of which is that there will be tears.
>
> i'll respond to off list technical questions.
>
> brucee
>
>
> On 29 April 2013 18:07, Sergey Zhilkin <szhilkin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There is http://www.vitanuova.com/dist/java.tgz - old java translating
>> software. It's not legaly free.
>> I think, Charles knows more :)
>>
>>
>> 2013/4/29 Marc Chantreux <khatar@phear.org>
>>
>>> hello,
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:21:21AM -0400, OrangeCalx01 wrote:
>>> > A machine implementing a virtual machine implementing a virtual
>>> machine? Oh
>>> > the latency! Lol. Why not integrate the jvm itself into dis?
>>>
>>> I really don't know about virtual machines and maybe it's a stupid
>>> question but i'm really currious about it and i really trust the plan9
>>> expertise: why not port inferno on top of the jvm? is this a technical
>>> nonsense? is there some performance/ressources issue or is it just an NIH
>>> manifestation?
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> С наилучшими пожеланиями
>> Жилкин Сергей
>> With best regards
>> Zhilkin Sergey
>>
>
>


-- 
Regards,
Dmitry Kabak

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Re: [9fans] java on dis

[erik quanstrom]

On Mon Apr 29 07:16:48 EDT 2013, userdima@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey, I didn't know that sources exist. But anyway, my work is still really
> relevant because of the need to update lots of sources to support latest
> Java and Inferno. And also to make the whole thing open-sourced, as the
> code you posted contains scaring lines like:
>
> This software is provided SOLELY for experiment and evaluation.
> NO PORTION may be distributed in ANY FORM, or used commercially,
> without executing appropriate licences with Vita Nuova and possibly,
> for some portions, Sun Microsystems Inc. Vita Nuova can advise on the
> latter once evaluation is complete

the first (open source) license must be choosen.  gsoc *requires* open source.

	http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/licence.html

> There is http://www.vitanuova.com/dist/java.tgz - old java translating
> software. It's not legaly free.
> I think, Charles knows more :)

and just to reiterate, if it's not free, it can't be used for gsoc.

- erik

Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Charles Forsyth]

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On 29 April 2013 09:07, Sergey Zhilkin <szhilkin@gmail.com> wrote:

> . It's not legaly free.


Dmitry already has a copy of the parts that are free.

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Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Charles Forsyth]

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On 29 April 2013 15:02, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dmitry already has a copy of the parts that are free.


and so does everyone else:

>I put it on inferno-j2d.googlecode.com ...

several months ago (it was announced on the inferno list). That's the basis
for potential GSoC work.

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Re: [9fans] java on dis

[Charles Forsyth]

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On 29 April 2013 15:05, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote:

> >I put it on inferno-j2d.googlecode.com ...
>
> several months ago (it was announced on the inferno list).
>

Dmitry had asked about it then, and having looked at it for the first time
in years, I realised it had some interesting code to study,
and if anyone was keen enough to try to get it going, there was no reason
to be obstructive.
(It's not a trivial task, because I had to remove the Sun code and the JVM
has changed, amongst other hurdles.)
Most or all of that Sun code will be in the open-source Java, but I had no
time to work that out. I left empty files to help track them down.

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