From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: Jeff Sickel <jas@corpus-callosum.com>
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 12:13:23 -0500
To: "9fans@9fans.net Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
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Subject: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 39d35832-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

Does anyone know if the netdb.h inclusion of hstrerror(int) was
just a copy/paste error?  Of if hstrerror() was intended to be
in the ape/lib/bsd source but got dropped somehow?

-jas




From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:20:05 +0000
Message-ID: <CAOw7k5jkDwG4fant7hJNPk_1ivDLJhAaZiH72xAid=6mq9Tgxg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
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--047d7bf1984472ab3e04d9137b78
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On 29 March 2013 17:13, Jeff Sickel <jas@corpus-callosum.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know if the netdb.h inclusion of hstrerror(int) was
> just a copy/paste error?  Of if hstrerror() was intended to be
> in the ape/lib/bsd source but got dropped somehow?
>

the linux manual page describes hstrerror as obsolete

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On 29 March 2013 17:13, Jeff Sickel <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:jas@corpus-callosum.com" target=3D"_blank">jas@corpus-callosum.com</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div id=3D":119">Does anyone know if the net=
db.h inclusion of hstrerror(int) was<br>
just a copy/paste error? =C2=A0Of if hstrerror() was intended to be<br>
in the ape/lib/bsd source but got dropped somehow?</div></blockquote></div>=
<br>the linux manual page describes hstrerror as obsolete</div></div>

--047d7bf1984472ab3e04d9137b78--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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From: Jeff Sickel <jas@corpus-callosum.com>
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 12:25:04 -0500
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	<CAOw7k5jkDwG4fant7hJNPk_1ivDLJhAaZiH72xAid=6mq9Tgxg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 39e0230a-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025


On Mar 29, 2013, at 12:20 PM, Charles Forsyth =
<charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote:

> the linux manual page describes hstrerror as obsolete

Which distro?  So many to choose from=85





From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:41:48 -0400
From: Kurt H Maier <khm-9@intma.in>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-ID: <20130329174148.GA98286@intma.in>
References: <17666A31-B506-46C1-972F-2D6407C4B8DD@corpus-callosum.com>
	<CAOw7k5jkDwG4fant7hJNPk_1ivDLJhAaZiH72xAid=6mq9Tgxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0693EB5-7CF0-4333-95F0-F82DFAD56845@corpus-callosum.com>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 39eb7af2-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:25:04PM -0500, Jeff Sickel wrote:
>=20
> On Mar 29, 2013, at 12:20 PM, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.co=
m> wrote:
>=20
> > the linux manual page describes hstrerror as obsolete
>=20
> Which distro?  So many to choose from=E2=80=A6
>=20

It's sort of moot, since The Man wants you to stop using gethostbyname
and friends anyway.  They're marked as 'obsolete' because POSIX.1-2001
wants you to use getnameinfo et al. instead.

Anything using gethostbyname is probably going to want herror (and thus
hstrerror) to be there.

khm



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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	<20130329174148.GA98286@intma.in>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 18:00:45 +0000
Message-ID: <CAOw7k5jQu_7RBmCcTfLxY8YgVN7DGRgtKX1WRVeYjygVobvGZw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
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--f46d04462e7ae5852904d9140c62
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On 29 March 2013 17:41, Kurt H Maier <khm-9@intma.in> wrote:

> Anything using gethostbyname is probably going to want herror (and thus
> hstrerror) to be there.
>

I see, although it seems herror/hstrerror is usually ifdef'd out, even when
gethostbyname remains!

--f46d04462e7ae5852904d9140c62
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On 29 March 2013 17:41, Kurt H Maier <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:khm-9@intma.in" target=3D"_blank">khm-9@intma.in</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div id=3D":1ki">Anything using gethostbyname is probably going to want her=
ror (and thus<br>
hstrerror) to be there.</div></blockquote></div><br>I see, although it seem=
s herror/hstrerror is usually ifdef&#39;d out, even when gethostbyname rema=
ins!</div></div>

--f46d04462e7ae5852904d9140c62--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: Jeff Sickel <jas@corpus-callosum.com>
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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:26:53 -0500
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	<CAOw7k5jkDwG4fant7hJNPk_1ivDLJhAaZiH72xAid=6mq9Tgxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0693EB5-7CF0-4333-95F0-F82DFAD56845@corpus-callosum.com>
	<20130329174148.GA98286@intma.in>
	<CAOw7k5jQu_7RBmCcTfLxY8YgVN7DGRgtKX1WRVeYjygVobvGZw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
In-Reply-To: <CAOw7k5jQu_7RBmCcTfLxY8YgVN7DGRgtKX1WRVeYjygVobvGZw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 39f78414-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025


--Apple-Mail=_875B50E8-E198-401F-81F8-6C9CF95D1678
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On Mar 29, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> =
wrote:

>=20
> On 29 March 2013 17:41, Kurt H Maier <khm-9@intma.in> wrote:
> Anything using gethostbyname is probably going to want herror (and =
thus
> hstrerror) to be there.
>=20
> I see, although it seems herror/hstrerror is usually ifdef'd out, even =
when gethostbyname remains!


Though if I check recent FreeBSD manuals, it's all there.  And given =
that
this is part of the BSD extensions to APE, those might be more relevant
than the Linux man pages.  Not that BSD tries to be POSIX compliant
any more or less than GNU/Linux.

There are definitely some issues in gethostbyaddr() that are being
looked into at this time.  But while the review is taking place, it =
doesn't
hurt to look at other potential areas of a mismatch.


--Apple-Mail=_875B50E8-E198-401F-81F8-6C9CF95D1678
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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Mar 29, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Charles Forsyth &lt;<a href="mailto:charles.forsyth@gmail.com">charles.forsyth@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 29 March 2013 17:41, Kurt H Maier <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:khm-9@intma.in" target="_blank">khm-9@intma.in</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div id=":1ki">Anything using gethostbyname is probably going to want herror (and thus<br>
hstrerror) to be there.</div></blockquote></div><br>I see, although it seems herror/hstrerror is usually ifdef'd out, even when gethostbyname remains!</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><div><br></div><div>Though if I check recent FreeBSD manuals, it's all there. &nbsp;And given that</div><div>this is part of the BSD extensions to APE, those might be more relevant</div><div>than the Linux man pages. &nbsp;Not that BSD tries to be POSIX compliant</div><div>any more or less than GNU/Linux.</div><div><br></div><div>There are definitely some issues in gethostbyaddr() that are being</div><div>looked into at this time. &nbsp;But while the review is taking place, it doesn't</div><div>hurt to look at other potential areas of a mismatch.</div><div><br></div></body></html>
--Apple-Mail=_875B50E8-E198-401F-81F8-6C9CF95D1678--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:03:45 +0100
From: tlaronde@polynum.com
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-ID: <20130329190345.GA2335@polynum.com>
References: <17666A31-B506-46C1-972F-2D6407C4B8DD@corpus-callosum.com>
	<CAOw7k5jkDwG4fant7hJNPk_1ivDLJhAaZiH72xAid=6mq9Tgxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0693EB5-7CF0-4333-95F0-F82DFAD56845@corpus-callosum.com>
	<20130329174148.GA98286@intma.in>
	<CAOw7k5jQu_7RBmCcTfLxY8YgVN7DGRgtKX1WRVeYjygVobvGZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<24472F85-7A42-4CDD-8CF2-5A1CEB25E109@corpus-callosum.com>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
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On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 01:26:53PM -0500, Jeff Sickel wrote:
>
> Though if I check recent FreeBSD manuals, it's all there.  And given that
> this is part of the BSD extensions to APE, those might be more relevant
> than the Linux man pages.  Not that BSD tries to be POSIX compliant
> any more or less than GNU/Linux.
>

It should be indeed underlined that this is a compatibility feature, and
not a POSIX feature. It seems that it is still here for legacy
compatibility on BSD (it is still here in NetBSD for example) but the
question arises whether it is worth supporting (because starting to
support all not POSIX is a daunting task).

This is what is said in the APE paper. The problem is not with Plan9
APE, it is that there are not a lot of programs that are written in a
POSIX compliant way...

--
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                      http://www.kergis.com/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:12:20 -0400
From: Kurt H Maier <khm-9@intma.in>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-ID: <20130329191220.GA9082@intma.in>
References: <17666A31-B506-46C1-972F-2D6407C4B8DD@corpus-callosum.com>
	<CAOw7k5jkDwG4fant7hJNPk_1ivDLJhAaZiH72xAid=6mq9Tgxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0693EB5-7CF0-4333-95F0-F82DFAD56845@corpus-callosum.com>
	<20130329174148.GA98286@intma.in>
	<CAOw7k5jQu_7RBmCcTfLxY8YgVN7DGRgtKX1WRVeYjygVobvGZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<24472F85-7A42-4CDD-8CF2-5A1CEB25E109@corpus-callosum.com>
	<20130329190345.GA2335@polynum.com>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
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On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 08:03:45PM +0100, tlaronde@polynum.com wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 01:26:53PM -0500, Jeff Sickel wrote:
> >
> > Though if I check recent FreeBSD manuals, it's all there.  And given that
> > this is part of the BSD extensions to APE, those might be more relevant
> > than the Linux man pages.  Not that BSD tries to be POSIX compliant
> > any more or less than GNU/Linux.
> >
>
> It should be indeed underlined that this is a compatibility feature, and
> not a POSIX feature. It seems that it is still here for legacy
> compatibility on BSD (it is still here in NetBSD for example) but the
> question arises whether it is worth supporting (because starting to
> support all not POSIX is a daunting task).
>
> This is what is said in the APE paper. The problem is not with Plan9
> APE, it is that there are not a lot of programs that are written in a
> POSIX compliant way...
>

It is a POSIX feature, I think.  It's just an outmoded one.  Supporting
all revisions of POSIX is damn near impossible.  Does APE have an
explicit target?

khm



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:10:35 +0100
From: tlaronde@polynum.com
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Message-ID: <20130329201035.GA3950@polynum.com>
References: <17666A31-B506-46C1-972F-2D6407C4B8DD@corpus-callosum.com>
	<CAOw7k5jkDwG4fant7hJNPk_1ivDLJhAaZiH72xAid=6mq9Tgxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0693EB5-7CF0-4333-95F0-F82DFAD56845@corpus-callosum.com>
	<20130329174148.GA98286@intma.in>
	<CAOw7k5jQu_7RBmCcTfLxY8YgVN7DGRgtKX1WRVeYjygVobvGZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<24472F85-7A42-4CDD-8CF2-5A1CEB25E109@corpus-callosum.com>
	<20130329190345.GA2335@polynum.com> <20130329191220.GA9082@intma.in>
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Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
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On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 03:12:20PM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote:
>
> It is a POSIX feature, I think.  It's just an outmoded one.  Supporting
> all revisions of POSIX is damn near impossible.  Does APE have an
> explicit target?

Well, it is not in SuSv3. And this is not already the latest...

--
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                      http://www.kergis.com/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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	<CAOw7k5jkDwG4fant7hJNPk_1ivDLJhAaZiH72xAid=6mq9Tgxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0693EB5-7CF0-4333-95F0-F82DFAD56845@corpus-callosum.com>
	<20130329174148.GA98286@intma.in>
	<CAOw7k5jQu_7RBmCcTfLxY8YgVN7DGRgtKX1WRVeYjygVobvGZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<24472F85-7A42-4CDD-8CF2-5A1CEB25E109@corpus-callosum.com>
	<20130329190345.GA2335@polynum.com>
	<20130329191220.GA9082@intma.in>
	<20130329201035.GA3950@polynum.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:32:45 +0000
Message-ID: <CAOw7k5h41UtRuV-8zDZwMsheN5hNw_bSZMuYgR-Tzcf+bJ3jaA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0438ee617bbe8104d9162c8e
Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
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--f46d0438ee617bbe8104d9162c8e
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On 29 March 2013 20:10, <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote:

> > It is a POSIX feature, I think.  It's just an outmoded one.  Supporting
> > all revisions of POSIX is damn near impossible.  Does APE have an
> > explicit target?
>

I think it's really a pragmatic matter of which interfaces are in some
standard that can be named,
that are also needed by most software that's being imported (eg, newer
versions of Python).

--f46d0438ee617bbe8104d9162c8e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On 29 March 2013 20:10,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tlaronde@p=
olynum.com" target=3D"_blank">tlaronde@polynum.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">&gt; It is a POSIX feature, I think. =C2=A0It&#39;s just =
an outmoded one. =C2=A0Supporting<br>
&gt; all revisions of POSIX is damn near impossible. =C2=A0Does APE have an=
<br>
&gt; explicit target?<br></div></blockquote></div><br>I think it&#39;s real=
ly a pragmatic matter of which interfaces are in some standard that can be =
named,</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra" style>that are also needed by most s=
oftware that&#39;s being imported (eg, newer versions of Python).</div>
</div>

--f46d0438ee617bbe8104d9162c8e--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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	<CAOw7k5jkDwG4fant7hJNPk_1ivDLJhAaZiH72xAid=6mq9Tgxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0693EB5-7CF0-4333-95F0-F82DFAD56845@corpus-callosum.com>
	<20130329174148.GA98286@intma.in>
	<CAOw7k5jQu_7RBmCcTfLxY8YgVN7DGRgtKX1WRVeYjygVobvGZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<24472F85-7A42-4CDD-8CF2-5A1CEB25E109@corpus-callosum.com>
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From: Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon@orthanc.ca>
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:20:01 -0700
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 3a4a7318-ead8-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025


On 2013-03-29, at 11:26 AM, Jeff Sickel wrote:

> Not that BSD tries to be POSIX compliant
> any more or less than GNU/Linux.

FreeBSD is actually pretty good about adhering to POSIX/SUS/Xopen when =
you set the appropriate defines.




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Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 22:37:59 -0400
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Subject: Re: [9fans] APE inconsistencies
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> It should be indeed underlined that this is a compatibility
> feature, and not a POSIX feature.

APE does an excellent job of making that distinction clear.
Its use of defines to forcibly break syntax was quite
educational as a young programmer.

Anthony