From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 3241 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2022 12:00:59 -0000 Received: from tb-ob20.topicbox.com (173.228.157.66) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 1 Jun 2022 12:00:59 -0000 Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (tb-mx1.nyi.icgroup.com [10.90.30.61]) by tb-ob20.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1459B241AD for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2022 08:00:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bounce.mM71f56ad40eb62ce87f0917e3.r522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa@9fans.bounce.topicbox.com) Received: by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix, from userid 1132) id B7F661510705; Wed, 1 Jun 2022 08:00:50 -0400 (EDT) ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=k0uthXLx header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rminnich@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f182.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type:list-help:list-id:list-post :list-subscribe:reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :list-unsubscribe; s=sysmsg-1; t=1654084850; bh=dvUOpqKtLdWrTYH/ sxwjv9nchzg/kwjFNCgiJXcp7ZA=; b=uKf6GwD1pBt72zhUyHWXL5jCP4KT+esF TiSTT5aUrrFunNh4O5pQ4HDNw9ypHoAvrUsaORb76YlGPjqCr49xxKySOoMb3IHH hT+9aahG7O2MvqWj2oRl2l8mxLKD8J89Wd/A9U6Hi7U/a6g0rplwwK5E+LLJGzjo +qfyqIXTX9Y= ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; d=topicbox.com; s=sysmsg-1; t= 1654084850; b=YJpUQ6Rlv7kHZFg/uQJHsmc0Hgj46g3Y6ze1NUcnhCnuGGCoK0 F2sn4sciFg6TahtHNZnYWA1/63wEs/B327mYIZ6s7XpCrPorTD0m5VDHNlw7LWz6 WWVxdsMLl+THpcgQvQtZIjG0by1s7kM7HhrbNjOJf9Ofw0L6TLMxjk7G0= Authentication-Results: topicbox.com; arc=pass; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=k0uthXLx header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rminnich@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f182.google.com; x-internal-arc=fail (as.1.topicbox.com=pass, ams.1.topicbox.com=fail (message has been altered)) (Message modified while forwarding at Topicbox) X-Received-Authentication-Results: tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=k0uthXLx header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.208.182 (mail-lj1-f182.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rminnich@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f182.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=cMB1kF3U; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f182.google.com policy.ptr=mail-lj1-f182.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=9fans.net; h= mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject :to:content-type:list-help:list-id:list-post:list-subscribe :reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:list-unsubscribe; s=dkim-1; t=1654084850; x=1654171250; bh=cSg0H3yL+Yjjhtu7M12/yc5RcUYq++pM 1fwRStjhmMw=; b=OtOJnwSj5ZuwGOk7Bvvgj3c5R1bGw7rCga+Xvauoicjn6ALq rjHcvC5I7xG7ToPaJeL/wRDcXRwFEELaVyxr5EA0tP3vvckeDzfzqZq4YwUw3yyK o2+ljLwnpP/vXQWekIvgDFXp9kP33O5ohpXs2iNkJ1mBIQ7oXIQzCscGOAw= Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7112A15102FE for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 1 Jun 2022 08:00:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rminnich@gmail.com) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id 79AD32EC5A1; Wed, 1 Jun 2022 08:00:21 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1654084821; b=dfI6jl0FC0MGEfa7WQmBQLKbHzVvuXNlsh+XMmEqpL71YR8nu4 dzvGNPt0SHmznb1GMeOVhOOUfcX6VSPUovV1lt+Il2D4iJsvdy1j3AWVqHnZgCsZ r26BvnqzzCjG/T5O+Gb7mkzO68ZjItOCYpYziHW6MVW+7zc3u26Q6NqrEOc+IE0/ QN6U54nvS7WJsANmWJokPednTLR8KW/rStF/crWoovJBtx4YLskSzQxZqmYDqCll T5NNJNWaJUKEjH+Xi66QxtW9PT8EDUZGMYQ3OVVPirS5yiWRufDMnqT0Jmq8UADq jvBYa23xR5s61oePz2Rl7Bpa47IkfNqY8T3g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type; s=arcseal; t=1654084821; bh=R/OLuneo6Abp9NUwIoitSP4MIsbRpReTFBmCww/tk6A=; b=LgTqFxqL+2ZW HMEfeQM66/n410fmODMKzbg28zyefyS/Bp5FgMvVfcV1r4fcsKFiI3mJWtkA4chf 9O+i7iC1dff1dms2dlVrPfimK+n5dRDodhe4+l8KcbAVqDMPXYnUrrT1UZzMbsBd iunVQOa4rcbCKI0p3jyEsbZSkUIe+FG7i2CMTfTWBLJCbfBhoqmfq0YABhSsNpiP rkuIz73EKzsP3C43xOffKM5sXEyFydHX9szIm+z6qWDLDO8ELwVptXbeSV+P/5TX pyGY9ZqBp/c1dSJMFckHQUZBO3QHI6zBD6j0GGRSUOhBBcI5CrDa6fUXU4bsvyDV Rr9YzqfxSA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=skipped (DMARC Policy is not at enforcement); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b=k0uthXLx header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.published-subdomain-policy=quarantine policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,sp=quarantine,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=gmail.com; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=209.85.208.182 (mail-lj1-f182.google.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rminnich@gmail.com smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f182.google.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-google-dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key) header.d=1e100.net header.i=@1e100.net header.b=cMB1kF3U; x-me-sender=none; x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mail-lj1-f182.google.com policy.ptr=mail-lj1-f182.google.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=gmail.com policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt2.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com,alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrledtgdegiecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpuffr tefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepgghfjgfhff fkuffvtgesthdtredttddtjeenucfhrhhomheprhhonhcumhhinhhnihgthhcuoehrmhhi nhhnihgthhesghhmrghilhdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhephefgfffhtdette ffgfduvefgtdfhleevgeetgeejgefhveffheevieeuvdefffdunecukfhppedvtdelrdek hedrvddtkedrudekvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvg htpedvtdelrdekhedrvddtkedrudekvddphhgvlhhopehmrghilhdqlhhjuddqfhdukedv rdhgohhoghhlvgdrtghomhdpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeeorhhmihhnnhhitghhsehgmhgrih hlrdgtohhmqe X-ME-VSScore: 0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'rminnich@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx1.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="rminnich@gmail.com"; helo=mail-lj1-f182.google.com; client-ip=209.85.208.182 Received: from mail-lj1-f182.google.com (mail-lj1-f182.google.com [209.85.208.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 1 Jun 2022 08:00:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rminnich@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-f182.google.com with SMTP id z13so1709739ljn.11 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 01 Jun 2022 05:00:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=R/OLuneo6Abp9NUwIoitSP4MIsbRpReTFBmCww/tk6A=; b=cMB1kF3U56O0d21LBegzBbtNlvJoCaeh+l+T275VLMmRvp8Y8duaEJg7cMeuJuqnmW HchEi2IBxffYo+ZWxRXCwMI6FWHISqwaYJ3SR8cfUpdydS+DHHcDnAPpR+1CwtP0iAoq lRM13miztixUrD0eWzSSPM+rK3825nuneg7i8UcNN2g1Bt150+4qAFlKl4/9mlIyvH+8 nF0MN1dRP8d7m+tn3345YBHxdDjTTtNpg5/KjKTpMNt7p40V3U2Lkcqy47JBoQqcs8NM daq3h2THpOrTssoh7kuhh/2bBXyRajclPtVhbf9xZ27qJeGxaf0/ZamomxKB0k/ofVgY 02zQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531e+aHnxMOjScGVWP5YrLAy3S05ht9BUxFb9sLmiHzKxEL7Ops8 hSlRry6Hxo85BxFbWneCI3cxANLmZNah0mFyYobSjGlb2F0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzOK2VJ3AvjwnW/+eZqx0vrVcgVwz65PSiHXnLRZJEN1keHwG6TO9R+GSepPP8VqJKV5XoHnAeE5W+St5KuG0M= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9012:0:b0:255:6c06:1e76 with SMTP id h18-20020a2e9012000000b002556c061e76mr1604180ljg.431.1654084818831; Wed, 01 Jun 2022 05:00:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <548D3C1F-DFCC-4DCE-AB37-3CA48997AE69@iitbombay.org> In-Reply-To: From: ron minnich Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 05:00:07 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [9fans] 9p server to multiply 9p messages? To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6da073ac-e1a2-11ec-ad09-a453a44aabb8 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UNzY5ODU0ZmFmZDJiN2QzNS1NNzFmNTZhZDQwZWI2MmNlODdmMDkx?= =?UTF-8?B?N2UzPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M71f56ad40eb62ce87f0917e3:1:mO6Y_HF3ffHdqe2uyAgP-_ZLRr8LEsCvNKdQgQ8Uxcw On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 11:29 AM hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote: > > so virtiofs is not using 9p any more? > > and with 10 million parallel requests, why shouldn't 9p be able to > deliver 10GB/s ?! Everyone always says this. I used to say it too. 9p requires a certain degree of ordering -- as Andrey once pointed out, it's not productive to close a file, then write it. So there is a tricky ordering requirement you need to get right, due to Plan 9 being stateful. The way we use 9p in Plan 9, as a general purpose protocol for everything, like devices, requires that each Tread or Twrite occur in order, but also requires that each T be retired before the next T is issued. devmnt does this. If you don't do this, hardware can get confused (e.g. ordering of Twrite followed by Tread followed by Twrite needs to be maintained. E.g. you don't want to issue the Tread before you know the Twrite happened. E.g. pre-posting 100 Treads to /dev/mouse is not a good idea if you suddenly want to do a Twrite in the middle of it). This is why 9p starts to perform poorly in networks with high bandwidth*delay products -- if you watch the net traffic, you see each T op on fid blocked by the previous Reply (by devmnt). I never figured out a way to fix this without fixing devmnt -- by removing its general nature. But, more to the point, whether or not 9p should be able to do all these parallel requests and get high performance, nobody has yet done it. The only numbers ever reported for making high bandhwidth*delay networks better were in Floren's thesis, when he added Tstream. After 20+ years of this discussion, I start to wondering whether it's harder than it looks. ron ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T769854fafd2b7d35-M71f56= ad40eb62ce87f0917e3 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription