From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1441348.rbkaJH2T22@coil> References: <1441348.rbkaJH2T22@coil> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 19:09:20 +0200 Message-ID: From: Eugene Gorodinsky To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3003bbf45af5c104cf7d1cc1 Subject: Re: [9fans] C++ Topicbox-Message-UUID: e60a5250-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --20cf3003bbf45af5c104cf7d1cc1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yay! A "C++ vs the world" flamewar! Again. Let me just point out that writing a game engine consists of a little bit more than just calls to opengl. Game engine programmers tend to embed scripting languages in their engines as opposed to writing the engines in Java, C#, Python or Lua. P.S. Coincidentally, here's a link to Carmack's rant about how script interpreters suck: http://www.codingthewheel.com/game-dev/john-carmack-script-interpreters-con= sidered-harmful P.P.S. idTech4 and above use C++. Carmack probably doesn't write idiomatic C anymore, considering his tips on doing functional programming in C++ ( http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/04/26/functional-programming-in-c/) 2012/11/23 dexen deVries > On Friday 23 of November 2012 10:47:09 Gorka Guardiola wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Winston Kodogo > wrote: > > > But, let the record show, C++ has been scientifically shown to be an > > > unbelievably crap and monstrously complex language, even though I ear= n > > > my daily bread by using it. I was a contemporary of Dr Stroustrup whe= n > > > he was spending his time dragging the Cambridge mainframe to its knee= s > > > using the Simula compiler - the kindest description I ever heard from > > > friends in the computer lab was "stubborn"- and occasionally, ok > > > frequently, or indeed always, am tempted to view C++ as his revenge o= n > > > the world for pointing out that he doesn't have a clue how to program > > > efficiently. > > > > Yes, this is why most games, which do not need speed or efficiency at a= ll > > are programmed in C++. (...) > > you've just stepped on my pet peeve, apologies in advance for what follow= s. > > <<'NITPICK' > the bulk of in-game graphics processing is done via OpenGL calls/DirectX > calls/whatever goes on the PS3' Cell CPU. the C++ parts could be replaced > with > Python and noone would be any the wiser. > > similarily, Youtube flash player does not decode nor scale video in Flash= ' > Actionscript; the GPU does it. unless you have broken drivers like i had > once, > in which case it is /slow/. > > C++ for the assembly-line-style game development [1] is choosen as PHB's > safe > bet -- a.k.a. ``industry's stadard practice'' -- and not on technical > merits. > cue picture of Scott Adams (of Dilbert fame). > > if you really must, John Carmak writes idomatic C, not C++. > NITPICK; > > > [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D4821152 and countless other > stories. > > -- > dexen deVries > > [[[=E2=86=93][=E2=86=92]]] > > > Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity. > -- Alvy Ray Smith > > --20cf3003bbf45af5c104cf7d1cc1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yay! A "C++ vs the world" flamewar! Again.

Let= me just point out that writing a game engine consists of a little bit more= than just calls to opengl. Game engine programmers tend to embed scripting= languages in their engines as opposed to writing the engines in Java, C#, = Python or Lua.=C2=A0

P.S. Coincidentally, here's a link to Carmack's= rant about how script interpreters suck:=C2=A0= http://www.codingthewheel.com/game-dev/john-carmack-script-interpreters-con= sidered-harmful
P.P.S. idTech4 and above use C++. Carmack probably doesn't write i= diomatic C anymore, considering his tips on doing functional programming in= C++ (http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/04/26/functional-programmin= g-in-c/)

2012/11/23 dexen deVries <dexen.= devries@gmail.com>
On Friday 23 of November 2012 10:47:09 Gorka Guardiola wr= ote:
> On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Winston Kodogo <kodogo@gmail.com> wrote:
> > But, let the record show, C++ has been scientifically shown to be= an
> > unbelievably crap and monstrously complex language, even though I= earn
> > my daily bread by using it. I was a contemporary of Dr Stroustrup= when
> > he was spending his time dragging the Cambridge mainframe to its = knees
> > using the Simula compiler - the kindest description I ever heard = from
> > friends in the computer lab was "stubborn"- =C2=A0and o= ccasionally, ok
> > frequently, or indeed always, am tempted to view C++ as his reven= ge on
> > the world for pointing out that he doesn't have a clue how to= program
> > efficiently.
>
> Yes, this is why most games, which do not need speed or efficiency at = all
> are programmed in C++. (...)

you've just stepped on my pet peeve, apologies in advance for what foll= ows.

<<'NITPICK'
the bulk of in-game graphics processing is done via OpenGL calls/DirectX calls/whatever goes on the PS3' Cell CPU. the C++ parts could be replac= ed with
Python and noone would be any the wiser.

similarily, Youtube flash player does not decode nor scale video in Flash&#= 39;
Actionscript; the GPU does it. unless you have broken drivers like i had on= ce,
in which case it is /slow/.

C++ for the assembly-line-style game development [1] is choosen as PHB'= s safe
bet =C2=A0-- a.k.a. ``industry's stadard practice'' -- and not = on technical merits.
cue picture of Scott Adams (of Dilbert fame).

if you really must, John Carmak writes idomatic C, not C++.
NITPICK;


[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D4821152 and countless other = stories.

--
dexen deVries

[[[=E2=86=93][=E2=86=92]]]


Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -- Alvy Ray Smith

--20cf3003bbf45af5c104cf7d1cc1--