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* Flakey DNS server
@ 2020-10-07  4:08 Lucio De Re
  2020-10-07 13:15 ` [9fans] " Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-08  0:58 ` [9fans] " ori
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Lucio De Re @ 2020-10-07  4:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

It would take me a long time to get to grips with the Plan 9 DNS
server (believe me, I've tried) and somehow my situation is getting
more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
provider that care for their profitability much more than for
interoperation: I get regular failures that bring my connection to the
Internet to a halt in unpredictable ways.

That may be due to a complicated network database, possibly with
errors in it, but fixing that is also a mission I don't wish to get
stuck into.

Short-cut: 9front's dns server has undergone many changes from the
Bell Labs sources I have on my production system , while 9legacy, at a
glance, does not report any "dns" patches; my faith in Cinap is that
he's likely to have applied sensible fixes (assuming it's his work,
feel free to correct me).

Chances are 9front ndb/dns binary will work OK on my system, but I
have in fact compiled the 9front sources in the Bell Labs context and
only a minor warning was reported.

So the big question, before I commit to something I may not be
competent to fix: what is recommended by those in the know?

Lucio.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-07  4:08 Flakey DNS server Lucio De Re
@ 2020-10-07 13:15 ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-07 16:14   ` Kurt H Maier
  2020-10-24 22:14   ` cigar562hfsp952fans
  2020-10-08  0:58 ` [9fans] " ori
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2020-10-07 13:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
> my situation is getting
> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
> interoperation

I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/

-- 

*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>

Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured 
unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with 
an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-07 13:15 ` [9fans] " Wes Kussmaul
@ 2020-10-07 16:14   ` Kurt H Maier
  2020-10-08  0:45     ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-24 22:14   ` cigar562hfsp952fans
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Kurt H Maier @ 2020-10-07 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Wed, Oct 07, 2020 at 09:15:01AM -0400, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
> 
> I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
> 

I suggest not looking at https://www.osmio.ch/ instead.

khm

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-07 16:14   ` Kurt H Maier
@ 2020-10-08  0:45     ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-08  0:59       ` ori
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2020-10-08  0:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


On 10/7/20 12:14 PM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 07, 2020 at 09:15:01AM -0400, Wes Kussmaul wrote:
>> I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
>>
> I suggest not looking at https://www.osmio.ch/ instead.
>
> khm

I'm curious as to why you would say that.

Wes


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-07  4:08 Flakey DNS server Lucio De Re
  2020-10-07 13:15 ` [9fans] " Wes Kussmaul
@ 2020-10-08  0:58 ` ori
  2020-10-08  3:29   ` Lucio De Re
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2020-10-08  0:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lucio.dere, 9fans

> So the big question, before I commit to something I may not be
> competent to fix: what is recommended by those in the know?

You've written a lot of text here, but none of it describes
what exactly is flaky. I'd recommend describing the flakiness
in more detail.

There's no way of telling if we fixed what ails your setup if
you don't tell us what the issues are.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-08  0:45     ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2020-10-08  0:59       ` ori
  2020-10-08  3:48         ` Lucio De Re
  2020-10-08 12:48         ` Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2020-10-08  0:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: wes, 9fans

> I'm curious as to why you would say that.

Well, the section of the site that describes
how to best operate a plan 9 dns server seems
to have gone offline.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-08  0:58 ` [9fans] " ori
@ 2020-10-08  3:29   ` Lucio De Re
  2020-10-08 12:06     ` kvik
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Lucio De Re @ 2020-10-08  3:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ori; +Cc: 9fans

On 10/8/20, ori@eigenstate.org <ori@eigenstate.org> wrote:
>> So the big question, before I commit to something I may not be
>> competent to fix: what is recommended by those in the know?
>
> You've written a lot of text here, but none of it describes
> what exactly is flaky. I'd recommend describing the flakiness
> in more detail.
>
I'm sorry I didn't phrase what I wanted to know properly. I can tell
if 9front has a fixed version of ndb/dns or not myself, I know where
it is "broken". For social rather than technical reasons, I am more
interested in how compatibly the no doubt improved version of the
server has been altered.

I have at least a partial answer: (a) the updated server, compiled
under Labs (not quite legacy) runs pretty much identically - no
differences in operation that I could report and (b) the same

     Bad rrattach magic: 0x60 - previous -0x21524542

message appears in the logs and causes an assert exception. Which is
what I have been unable to fix in the past. Or determine if it's
something I can fix by tidying up a very bloated network database.

That said, thanks to all who have replied to me, it has been
informative and encouraging.

Lucio.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-08  0:59       ` ori
@ 2020-10-08  3:48         ` Lucio De Re
  2020-10-08 10:54           ` Ethan Gardener
  2020-10-08 12:48         ` Wes Kussmaul
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Lucio De Re @ 2020-10-08  3:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans; +Cc: wes

*** no longer on topic ***

On 10/8/20, ori@eigenstate.org <ori@eigenstate.org> wrote:
>> I'm curious as to why you would say that.
>
> Well, the section of the site that describes
> how to best operate a plan 9 dns server seems
> to have gone offline.
>
There's a difference between Wes making a tangential suggestion (I did
complain about how the structure of the Internet is unravelling) and
Kurt countermanding that precise suggestion.

A lot like a religious shaman trying to tell me what it means to be an
atheist. I will grant that it confirms what I believe about Kurt and
in some sense it is reassuring that Kurt remains true to his
personality. Hell, folks, so many of us have practically grown old on
this forum, are we ever going to mellow out at least a bit?

So, on a lighter note: for all my dislike of multi-media and how it
has taken over the Internet, I find youtube's collection of music from
my teens very enjoyable, in some kind of extreme nostalgia - and the
comments from many others who mirror my sentiments also somewhat
reassuring (I believe critics call that an "echo chamber"); that's my
own idea of "mellowing".

On another, weirdly related note, I wonder if anyone else who may be
following developments of the Go language have noted the recent shift
from email identities that at least resemble human names and surnames
to the most extraordinary monikers. I have been subscribed to gerrit's
stream of change requests for quite a while and the change has really
given me cause for concern. I do plan to stop receiving those
notifications as soon as I can figure how to unsubscribe in bulk.

My heart goes out to Russ, Rob and Ian Taylor as well as the many
others who need to deal with that flow of consciousness.

Lucio.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-08  3:48         ` Lucio De Re
@ 2020-10-08 10:54           ` Ethan Gardener
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Gardener @ 2020-10-08 10:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020, at 4:48 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
> *** no longer on topic ***

> So, on a lighter note: for all my dislike of multi-media and how it
> has taken over the Internet, I find youtube's collection of music from
> my teens very enjoyable, in some kind of extreme nostalgia - and the
> comments from many others who mirror my sentiments also somewhat
> reassuring (I believe critics call that an "echo chamber"); that's my
> own idea of "mellowing".

I get that. Someone reminded me of Thin Lizzy the other day, and youtube of course made it very convenient to hear them again. Also, some of the best times in my life involved a terribly badly-coded server-client system with a painfully bad GUI! I'm not sure how that happened, but it did. There were some good design features in that system.

> On another, weirdly related note, I wonder if anyone else who may be
> following developments of the Go language have noted the recent shift
> from email identities that at least resemble human names and surnames
> to the most extraordinary monikers. I have been subscribed to gerrit's
> stream of change requests for quite a while and the change has really
> given me cause for concern. I do plan to stop receiving those
> notifications as soon as I can figure how to unsubscribe in bulk.
> 
> My heart goes out to Russ, Rob and Ian Taylor as well as the many
> others who need to deal with that flow of consciousness.

I wouldn't be too worried, politeness is the new punk. I had a very polite friend who wore a most extraordinary mohawk with waistcoat, pocket watch, neatly pressed trousers and patent leather shoes. Somehow, even the mohawk looked smart. Besides, this may be a return to the sensible practice of not putting your real identity online. I recently found reasons to wish I'd kept to that, although I thankfully haven't had any real problems from it.

~ eekee ~

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-08  3:29   ` Lucio De Re
@ 2020-10-08 12:06     ` kvik
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: kvik @ 2020-10-08 12:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I can tell if 9front has a fixed version of ndb/dns or not myself

Other than the 96 patches to cmd/ndb logged into 9front hg repo
there's countless others pertaining to dependencies of the ndb set
that might have solved your particular issue.

FWIW I've been running ndb/dnstcp on 9front as a primary for a few
months, seeing no issues like yours.  I know other people who do the
same.

I'd suggest trying to serve your database from a 9front system, see
if it breaks here too.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-08  0:59       ` ori
  2020-10-08  3:48         ` Lucio De Re
@ 2020-10-08 12:48         ` Wes Kussmaul
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2020-10-08 12:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


On 10/7/20 8:59 PM, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
>> I'm curious as to why you would say that.
> Well, the section of the site that describes
> how to best operate a plan 9 dns server seems
> to have gone offline.

I think you have it confused with some other site.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-07 13:15 ` [9fans] " Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-07 16:14   ` Kurt H Maier
@ 2020-10-24 22:14   ` cigar562hfsp952fans
  2020-10-24 22:48     ` [9fans] " Charles Forsyth
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: cigar562hfsp952fans @ 2020-10-24 22:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Wes Kussmaul <wes@ReliableID.com> writes:

> On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
>> my situation is getting
>> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
>> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
>> interoperation
>
> I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/

I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal homepage for
a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-24 22:14   ` cigar562hfsp952fans
@ 2020-10-24 22:48     ` Charles Forsyth
  2020-10-24 23:01       ` Calvin Morrison
  2020-10-25  2:09       ` Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2020-10-24 22:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1063 bytes --]

It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence Geneva
as location for various international organisations, and indeed as a
setting for several TV series)

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM <cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org> wrote:

> Wes Kussmaul <wes@ReliableID.com> writes:
>
> > On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
> >> my situation is getting
> >> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
> >> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
> >> interoperation
> >
> > I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
>
> I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal homepage for
> a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
> government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?
>
> ------------------------------------------
> 9fans: 9fans
> Permalink:
> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-M7dd75d0e0c208122a98291e0
> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-24 22:48     ` [9fans] " Charles Forsyth
@ 2020-10-24 23:01       ` Calvin Morrison
  2020-10-25  2:09       ` Wes Kussmaul
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Calvin Morrison @ 2020-10-24 23:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: g_patrickb via 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1568 bytes --]

Didn't they sell bearings to the Nazis?

- an actual swiss citizen

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, at 6:48 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence Geneva as location for various international organisations, and indeed as a setting for several TV series)
> 
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM <cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org> wrote:
>> Wes Kussmaul <wes@ReliableID.com> writes:
>> 
>> > On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
>> >> my situation is getting
>> >> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
>> >> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
>> >> interoperation
>> >
>> > I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
>> 
>> I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal homepage for
>> a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
>> government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------
>> 9fans: 9fans
>> Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-M7dd75d0e0c208122a98291e0
>> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-M99ae9635befa9785b4527671>

Calvin

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-24 22:48     ` [9fans] " Charles Forsyth
  2020-10-24 23:01       ` Calvin Morrison
@ 2020-10-25  2:09       ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-25 13:33         ` hiro
                           ` (2 more replies)
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2020-10-25  2:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Lucio's concern was about commercial enterprises bending Internet norms 
to serve their bottom line at the expense of interoperation.

Imagine if the physical city where you live allowed building codes to be 
proprietary, and instead of public professional licensing of architects, 
contractors, structural engineers and building inspectors you had 
certification programs of those commercial enterprises.

Instead, habitability of physical buildings is determined by building 
codes and professional licensing that are the product of participatory 
and duly constituted public authority.

That's the role that Osmio sets out to play in non-physical digital 
indoor spaces.


On 10/24/20 6:48 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence 
> Geneva as location for various international organisations, and indeed 
> as a setting for several TV series)
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM <cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org 
> <mailto:cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org>> wrote:
>
>     Wes Kussmaul <wes@ReliableID.com> writes:
>
>     > On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
>     >> my situation is getting
>     >> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
>     >> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
>     >> interoperation
>     >
>     > I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
>
>     I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal
>     homepage for
>     a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
>     government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?
>
>     ------------------------------------------
>     9fans: 9fans
>     Permalink:
>     https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-M7dd75d0e0c208122a98291e0
>     Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
>
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions 
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants 
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options 
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink 
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-M99ae9635befa9785b4527671> 
>
-- 

*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>

Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured 
unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with 
an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-25  2:09       ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2020-10-25 13:33         ` hiro
  2020-10-25 16:43           ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-27  0:39         ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
  2020-10-29  0:24         ` cigar562hfsp952fans
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2020-10-25 13:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

participatory as in big cases of cash money

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-25 13:33         ` hiro
@ 2020-10-25 16:43           ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-25 18:32             ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2020-10-25 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Look into it. You'll find that optimocracy has built-in methods that 
make it difficult to influence things that way.

See "Governance" at osmio.ch.

On 10/25/20 9:33 AM, hiro wrote:
> participatory as in big cases of cash money
>
> ------------------------------------------
> 9fans: 9fans
> Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-M01b680b49e303fed256ba3cb
> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
-- 

*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>

Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured 
unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with 
an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-25 16:43           ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2020-10-25 18:32             ` hiro
  2020-10-25 18:38               ` Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2020-10-25 18:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

i do not find. i looked into it, i guess my dictionaries have not been
updated with your insight.

On 10/25/20, Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
> Look into it. You'll find that optimocracy has built-in methods that
> make it difficult to influence things that way.
>
> See "Governance" at osmio.ch.
>
> On 10/25/20 9:33 AM, hiro wrote:
>> participatory as in big cases of cash money
> --
>
> *Wes Kussmaul*
>
> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
> an Authenticity Enterprise
> 738 Main Street
> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
> t: +1 781 790 1674
> m: +1 781 330 1881
> e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>
>
> Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>
>
> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
> 9fans: 9fans
> Permalink:
> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-Mab929e4de7617ceff1cf1817
> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-25 18:32             ` hiro
@ 2020-10-25 18:38               ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-25 18:54                 ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2020-10-25 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

https://www.osmio.ch/about-optimocracy.html

On 10/25/20 2:32 PM, hiro wrote:
> i do not find. i looked into it, i guess my dictionaries have not been
> updated with your insight.
>
> On 10/25/20, Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
>> Look into it. You'll find that optimocracy has built-in methods that
>> make it difficult to influence things that way.
>>
>> See "Governance" at osmio.ch.
>>
>> On 10/25/20 9:33 AM, hiro wrote:
>>> participatory as in big cases of cash money
>> --
>>







^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-25 18:38               ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2020-10-25 18:54                 ` hiro
  2020-10-25 19:00                   ` Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2020-10-25 18:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

still not clicking, sorry. your argument is self-referencing at best.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-25 18:54                 ` hiro
@ 2020-10-25 19:00                   ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-25 19:28                     ` hiro
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2020-10-25 19:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

That's strange. What happens when you click?

Try optimocracy.org

On 10/25/20 2:54 PM, hiro wrote:
> still not clicking, sorry. your argument is self-referencing at best.
>
> ------------------------------------------
> 9fans: 9fans
> Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-M817242e47e4807d6dba0b5c7
> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
-- 

Please note that my presentation at the International Cryptographic

Module Conference ICMC 2020 
<https://icmconference.org/?session=measuring-the-reliability-of-an-identity-claim-g13c> 
has been rescheduled to September 16.

*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>

Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured 
unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with 
an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-25 19:00                   ` Wes Kussmaul
@ 2020-10-25 19:28                     ` hiro
  2020-10-25 20:19                       ` Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: hiro @ 2020-10-25 19:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On 10/25/20, Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
> That's strange. What happens when you click?
>
> Try optimocracy.org

is it coincidence that the IP this points to also hosts kussmaul.net
and assfag.com ?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-25 19:28                     ` hiro
@ 2020-10-25 20:19                       ` Wes Kussmaul
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2020-10-25 20:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1530 bytes --]


On 10/25/20 3:28 PM, hiro wrote:
> On 10/25/20, Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
>> That's strange. What happens when you click?
>>
>> Try optimocracy.org
> is it coincidence that the IP this points to also hosts kussmaul.net
> and assfag.com ?

Ugh. Not a coincidence, a mistake.

We use three hosting services; optimocracy.org is on one that hasn't 
been attended to in a while. I set it up myself and haven't bothered my 
very capable team with it.

Hiro, thank you for pointing this out. I'll have our hosting director 
move all our domains from that services and issue the coup de grace to 
our relationship with them.

I assure you, we have no connection to assfag.com and never heard of the 
domain before this.

Wes


*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451 USA
t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>

Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured 
unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with 
an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.




[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4649 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-25  2:09       ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-25 13:33         ` hiro
@ 2020-10-27  0:39         ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
  2020-10-27  7:06           ` Lucio De Re
  2020-10-27 14:51           ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-29  0:24         ` cigar562hfsp952fans
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Thaddeus Woskowiak @ 2020-10-27  0:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:11 PM Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
>
> Lucio's concern was about commercial enterprises bending Internet norms
> to serve their bottom line at the expense of interoperation.
>
> Imagine if the physical city where you live allowed building codes to be
> proprietary, and instead of public professional licensing of architects,
> contractors, structural engineers and building inspectors you had
> certification programs of those commercial enterprises.
>
> Instead, habitability of physical buildings is determined by building
> codes and professional licensing that are the product of participatory
> and duly constituted public authority.
>
> That's the role that Osmio sets out to play in non-physical digital
> indoor spaces.
>
>
> On 10/24/20 6:48 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> > It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence
> > Geneva as location for various international organisations, and indeed
> > as a setting for several TV series)
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM <cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org
> > <mailto:cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     Wes Kussmaul <wes@ReliableID.com> writes:
> >
> >     > On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
> >     >> my situation is getting
> >     >> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
> >     >> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
> >     >> interoperation
> >     >
> >     > I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
> >
> > I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal
> > homepage for
> > a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
> > government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?
> >
> > *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink
> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-M99ae9635befa9785b4527671>
> --
>
> *Wes Kussmaul*
>
> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
> an Authenticity Enterprise
> 738 Main Street
> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
> t: +1 781 790 1674
> m: +1 781 330 1881
> e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>
>
> Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>
>
> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
> 9fans: 9fans
> Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-Me25c01fcc7e2ebd901dbe7b8
> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

I believe the issue here is that some people have interpreted your
osmio.ch suggestion as a solution to Lucio's DNS issues.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-27  0:39         ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
@ 2020-10-27  7:06           ` Lucio De Re
  2020-10-28  3:18             ` ori
  2020-10-27 14:51           ` Wes Kussmaul
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread
From: Lucio De Re @ 2020-10-27  7:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Just to bring the subject back: it seems the DNS server fails when the
connectivity it relies on is restored. At least, that is how I
interpret what happened this morning.

K some point, my attempts to browse the web failed and looked a lot
like a hostname lookup failure, so I applied my now regular
sledge-hammer to kill and restart the server (1). That failed in its
objective so I actually figured the Internet link had failed.
Coincidentally, the mobile data link had run out of credits, so that
failed too - nothing seems simple around here.

A few steps down the line, I managed to use the second Internet link
to provision data for the mobile backup link (2), by which time the
Internet link (would you believe that both Internet services run on a
long distance wi-fi connection?) had been restored. And that is when I
noticed that the Plan 9 DNS server had reached 100, then 200 opened
file handles as reported by the kernel console.

It seems - I'm hoping someone here knows the DNS server code better
than my distant exploration of it - that a fresh instance of the
server is more robust against a network failure than one that has run
for some time. Presumably some kind of cache problem, as that would be
the significant difference. Myself, cache allocation and general
messing about is the type of code I try desperately to avoid having to
write, let alone debug.

(1) Miller informed me that the DNS server responds to a "restart"
command, but I discovered that if the "-s" option is used, the restart
isn't a complete one.

(2) Recently, I rearranged my small network. Out of necessity as I had
managed to mis-configure the core gateway and could not restore it in
a short time. It used to be that one Internet link did all the work,
with a few exceptions to get around ISP-dictated restrictions and
misconfigurations. Routing to the second link was used as the
anti-censorship measure.

When the primary link failed, removing the lower-cost default route
sufficed to bring the more expensive secondary into full operation. I
wasn't really concerned with failures of the secondary link, they
didn't really have much impact. To be honest, even failure of the
primary link didn't have much impact. Short failures, though, that
would otherwise go unnoticed, I now believe tickled the DNS server
into bad behaviour. Not too short, I don't think, but hardly worth
switching to the secondary.

Since I switched to what used to be the secondary link for all my
desktop work and reserved the primary for Netflix and my partner's
obsession with Trump's misdemeanours, the DNS server has shown a
different pattern of failures, all seemingly related to flakey
connectivity.

Lucio.

PS: those who raised the Osmio flag did so, in my opinion,
disingenuously. Wes has long been known to punt a socially-related
issue. Probably something that needs no further attention in this
thread.


On 10/27/20, Thaddeus Woskowiak <tswoskowiak@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:11 PM Wes Kussmaul <wes@reliableid.com> wrote:
>>
>> Lucio's concern was about commercial enterprises bending Internet norms
>> to serve their bottom line at the expense of interoperation.
>>
>> Imagine if the physical city where you live allowed building codes to be
>> proprietary, and instead of public professional licensing of architects,
>> contractors, structural engineers and building inspectors you had
>> certification programs of those commercial enterprises.
>>
>> Instead, habitability of physical buildings is determined by building
>> codes and professional licensing that are the product of participatory
>> and duly constituted public authority.
>>
>> That's the role that Osmio sets out to play in non-physical digital
>> indoor spaces.
>>
>>
>> On 10/24/20 6:48 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
>> > It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence
>> > Geneva as location for various international organisations, and indeed
>> > as a setting for several TV series)
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM <cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org
>> > <mailto:cigar562hfsp952fans@icebubble.org>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     Wes Kussmaul <wes@ReliableID.com> writes:
>> >
>> >     > On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
>> >     >> my situation is getting
>> >     >> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by
>> > service
>> >     >> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
>> >     >> interoperation
>> >     >
>> >     > I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
>> >
>> > I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal
>> > homepage for
>> > a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
>> > government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?
>> >
>> > *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
>> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
>> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
>> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink
>> > <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-M99ae9635befa9785b4527671>
>> --
>>
>> *Wes Kussmaul*
>>
>> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
>> an Authenticity Enterprise
>> 738 Main Street
>> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
>> t: +1 781 790 1674
>> m: +1 781 330 1881
>> e: wes@ReliableID.com <mailto:wes@ReliableID.com>
>>
>> Learn About Authenticity <http://authenticityworks.video/>
>>
>> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
>> protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have
>> received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it
>> from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents
>> to anyone. The integrity and security of this message cannot be assured
>> unless it is digitally signed by the PEN of an identity certificate with
>> an IDQA score that is sufficient for your purposes.
>>
>
> I believe the issue here is that some people have interpreted your
> osmio.ch suggestion as a solution to Lucio's DNS issues.
>
> ------------------------------------------
> 9fans: 9fans
> Permalink:
> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4e8db4c94a81d90f-Mf0aaea951a7c79996e890424
> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
>


-- 
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief St
Kestell (Eastern Free State)
9860 South Africa

Ph.: +27 71 471 3694
Cell: +27 83 251 5824

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-27  0:39         ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
  2020-10-27  7:06           ` Lucio De Re
@ 2020-10-27 14:51           ` Wes Kussmaul
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2020-10-27 14:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans


On 10/26/20 8:39 PM, Thaddeus Woskowiak wrote:
> I believe the issue here is that some people have interpreted your
> osmio.ch suggestion as a solution to Lucio's DNS issues.
>
Apologies for my part in the confusion.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-27  7:06           ` Lucio De Re
@ 2020-10-28  3:18             ` ori
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2020-10-28  3:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lucio.dere, 9fans

> A few steps down the line, I managed to use the second Internet link
> to provision data for the mobile backup link (2), by which time the
> Internet link (would you believe that both Internet services run on a
> long distance wi-fi connection?) had been restored. And that is when I
> noticed that the Plan 9 DNS server had reached 100, then 200 opened
> file handles as reported by the kernel console.

Sounds like an fd leak; I'd grep around for open() calls,
and see if any were missing a close in if the open fails.

You can get some hints at what's been opened by looking
in /proc/$pid/fd -- there'll probably be a bunch of things
open to the same file.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: Flakey DNS server
  2020-10-25  2:09       ` Wes Kussmaul
  2020-10-25 13:33         ` hiro
  2020-10-27  0:39         ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
@ 2020-10-29  0:24         ` cigar562hfsp952fans
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: cigar562hfsp952fans @ 2020-10-29  0:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> writes:

> It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence Geneva

Wes Kussmaul <wes@ReliableID.com> writes:

> Instead, habitability of physical buildings is determined by building
> codes and professional licensing that are the product of participatory
> and duly constituted public authority.
>
> That's the role that Osmio sets out to play in non-physical digital
> indoor spaces.

Oh, I see.  But if that's their goal, their homepage does a terrible job
of describing/explaining it.  That site (at least the English version of
it) gives the impression that it's an actual (physical) city.  That
explains the confusion.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server
@ 2020-10-07  6:02 Steve Simon
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread
From: Steve Simon @ 2020-10-07  6:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lucio De Re; +Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

i still use the labs dns server and have no problems, but my configuration is quite straightforward.

sorry not to be more help.

-Steve


> On 7 Oct 2020, at 6:08 am, Lucio De Re <lucio.dere@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> It would take me a long time to get to grips with the Plan 9 DNS
> server (believe me, I've tried) and somehow my situation is getting
> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
> interoperation: I get regular failures that bring my connection to the
> Internet to a halt in unpredictable ways.
> 
> That may be due to a complicated network database, possibly with
> errors in it, but fixing that is also a mission I don't wish to get
> stuck into.
> 
> Short-cut: 9front's dns server has undergone many changes from the
> Bell Labs sources I have on my production system , while 9legacy, at a
> glance, does not report any "dns" patches; my faith in Cinap is that
> he's likely to have applied sensible fixes (assuming it's his work,
> feel free to correct me).
> 
> Chances are 9front ndb/dns binary will work OK on my system, but I
> have in fact compiled the 9front sources in the Bell Labs context and
> only a minor warning was reported.
> 
> So the big question, before I commit to something I may not be
> competent to fix: what is recommended by those in the know?
> 
> Lucio.
> 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-10-29  2:29 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 29+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-10-07  4:08 Flakey DNS server Lucio De Re
2020-10-07 13:15 ` [9fans] " Wes Kussmaul
2020-10-07 16:14   ` Kurt H Maier
2020-10-08  0:45     ` Wes Kussmaul
2020-10-08  0:59       ` ori
2020-10-08  3:48         ` Lucio De Re
2020-10-08 10:54           ` Ethan Gardener
2020-10-08 12:48         ` Wes Kussmaul
2020-10-24 22:14   ` cigar562hfsp952fans
2020-10-24 22:48     ` [9fans] " Charles Forsyth
2020-10-24 23:01       ` Calvin Morrison
2020-10-25  2:09       ` Wes Kussmaul
2020-10-25 13:33         ` hiro
2020-10-25 16:43           ` Wes Kussmaul
2020-10-25 18:32             ` hiro
2020-10-25 18:38               ` Wes Kussmaul
2020-10-25 18:54                 ` hiro
2020-10-25 19:00                   ` Wes Kussmaul
2020-10-25 19:28                     ` hiro
2020-10-25 20:19                       ` Wes Kussmaul
2020-10-27  0:39         ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
2020-10-27  7:06           ` Lucio De Re
2020-10-28  3:18             ` ori
2020-10-27 14:51           ` Wes Kussmaul
2020-10-29  0:24         ` cigar562hfsp952fans
2020-10-08  0:58 ` [9fans] " ori
2020-10-08  3:29   ` Lucio De Re
2020-10-08 12:06     ` kvik
2020-10-07  6:02 Steve Simon

9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

This inbox may be cloned and mirrored by anyone:

	git clone --mirror http://inbox.vuxu.org/9fans

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V1 9fans 9fans/ http://inbox.vuxu.org/9fans \
		9fans@9fans.net
	public-inbox-index 9fans

Example config snippet for mirrors.
Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://inbox.vuxu.org/vuxu.archive.9fans


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git