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[172.125.77.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z5sm609137pgv.53.2020.12.03.01.28.19 for <9fans@9fans.net> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Dec 2020 01:28:20 -0800 (PST) From: Bakul Shah Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5D1607F6-B4E5-450B-AE2B-8894BBBCFC9D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.20.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan 9 announcements on twitter Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 01:28:18 -0800 References: <864klqb1st.fsf@cmarib.ramside> <86a6uva8lm.fsf@cmarib.ramside> To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.20.0.2.21) Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: e67048ae-3549-11eb-8d71-b5f1ec3ff263 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UM2ZkMDI4ZmNmMmVlYjI0Yy1NMTEyOGQ5MzJhNzlkNTM1MzdlOGQz?= =?UTF-8?B?ZTczPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M1128d932a79d53537e8d3e73:1:F0Mvr9nnd_4F2HsqEe33S2EYugqVDgWhNzlSZwwQb7M --Apple-Mail=_5D1607F6-B4E5-450B-AE2B-8894BBBCFC9D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" In his Turing Award lecture "The Humber Programmer" he expresses this senti= ment. "the tools we are trying to use and the language or notation we are using t= o express or record our thoughts, are the major factors determining what we= can think or express at all!" You all may enjoy listening to him! https://youtu.be/jDvaEiK__B8?list=3DPL99C1C9F94FB8FA4B&t=3D127 The above clip is positioned at "Now for the fifth argument." if you just w= ant to read the relevant paragraph in the transcription below: https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD03xx/EWD340.html Finally, I very much doubt he would have liked C! > On Dec 3, 2020, at 12:50 AM, Lucio De Re wrote: >=20 > ewd498 - should suffice for a search. > cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/index00xx.html seems an interesting place to look. >=20 > And I may have paraphrased Dijkstra more strongly than he would have > intended, but I'm sure he'll forgive me. >=20 > Lucio. >=20 > On 12/3/20, Mart Zirnask wrote: >>> PS: I concur with the late Dijkstra that the programming language(s) >>> you learn shape(s) your ability to construct abstractions in your >>> mind. We're kind of safe for as long as C remains the base language >>> for development. All bets are off when Objective C takes over. >>=20 >> Would you mind posting a link to the manuscript/transcript of the >> essay where he discusses this? >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Mart >=20 >=20 > -- > Lucio De Re > 2 Piet Retief St > Kestell (Eastern Free State) > 9860 South Africa >=20 > Ph.: +27 71 471 3694 > Cell: +27 83 251 5824 ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T3fd028fcf2eeb24c-M1128d= 932a79d53537e8d3e73 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --Apple-Mail=_5D1607F6-B4E5-450B-AE2B-8894BBBCFC9D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" In his Tu= ring Award lecture "The Humber Programmer" he expresses this sent= iment.

"the tools we are trying to use and the language or nota= tion we are using to express or record our thoughts, are the major factors = determining what we can think or express at all!"

You all may = enjoy listening to him!


The above clip is positioned at "Now for the fifth argument.&quo= t; if you just want to read the
relevant paragraph in = the transcription below:


Finally, I very much doubt he would have liked C!


On Dec 3, 2020, at 12:50 A= M, Lucio De Re <lucio= .dere@gmail.com> wrote:

ewd498 - should suffice for a search.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/index00xx.html seems an interesting pla= ce to look.

And I may have paraphrased Dij= kstra more strongly than he would have
intended, but I'= m sure he'll forgive me.

Lucio.

On 12/3/20, Mart Zirnask <martzirnask@gmail.com> wrote:
PS: I concur with the late Dijkstra that the programming languag= e(s)
you learn shape(s) your ability to construct abstracti= ons in your
mind. We're kind of safe for as long as C r= emains the base language
for development. All bets are off = when Objective C takes over.

= Would you mind posting a link to the manuscript/transcript of the
essay where he discusses this?

Tha= nks,
Mart

--
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief= St
Kestell (Eastern Free State)
9860 South= Africa

Ph.: +27 71 471 3694
Cell: +27 83 251 5824

-----------------= -------------------------
9fans: 9fans
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