From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73071A0AAC3 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 10:57:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve@quintile.net) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id 6D5773D7999; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 10:57:00 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1578758220; b=X+8SA3rBn1Pxto/OvjmjDxwOL73ynT10BEBhq33LUQlXMva456 u6VNHrsI8OE6svN56pKK0ZSXsUMt++iVnFHcZfQttczhcZIaadd5zNQQG/wbCTSj yMgZY672Ye8FiIum9KwKcJ3HnVgIBx4AwONJ3MZrIaanHF6p660c9PtIegIMQorb Rd5Qvi43LE1zYd9RVKAww/Gs3KgjYFSUG9Hzao9Pc/Qe5CCTolXzMER01vAYJcYF bmYcyq7jTvuWJozFc6NgXoBfSl9oWaQpOMc+3xohoqi1tKns17Wx8U4IMqaOc3ZS mBT1bWSPpktJ2KUPgw07lC6Boyn3lEu543cw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=content-type:content-transfer-encoding:from :mime-version:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to:to; s=arcseal; t=1578758220; bh=8S/01KnEkzHBxTl8kx08PWcVTdZoT9xARuf YUFnClxw=; b=snRna4l3rVFtZLnebRh6Q+4dABCgGXNrEZR6RPQCPTrgWT/Mb/G zS78BZ4DbABLzrCeJeFYGMHF6f/2MpHDsYkRSCtw/kkNrEzSjichIlpQKQRCmsDU XIKjXoYJrVAmWp+W9olvwU8Y0Le38Qo6uXS3lvnzNqCZ5cIhHvExUrRxiP55bioZ pzu6UOxlwgKapbLRYK5/Z4hWzZuR+nQOo9hOxdf3iymbskjQ+DBNHUM+5Rwu+toG O1aKWacoJM7w1toPlP/+G4LKdWqdsL6ShQiSjB799xmGX7CRKpWok4vfjKafoenH sPiyrMm7G76gD4oRmhwPnTWf/aSasS4JBbw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); dkim=none (no signatures found); dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=quintile.net; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=81.187.30.52 (b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=steve@quintile.net smtp.helo=b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk policy.ptr=b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=quintile.net policy.is_org=yes (MX Record found); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=quintile.net policy.is_org=yes (MX Record found); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 Authentication-Results: tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); dkim=none (no signatures found); dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=quintile.net; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=81.187.30.52 (b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=steve@quintile.net smtp.helo=b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk policy.ptr=b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=quintile.net policy.is_org=yes (MX Record found); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=quintile.net policy.is_org=yes (MX Record found); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=0 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvdeihedgkedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpegtgffhgg fufffkfhgjvffosegrjehmrehhtdejnecuhfhrohhmpefuthgvvhgvucfuihhmohhnuceo shhtvghvvgesqhhuihhnthhilhgvrdhnvghtqeenucffohhmrghinhepthhophhitggsoh igrdgtohhmnecukfhppeekuddrudekjedrfedtrdehvddpkedurddukeejrdduleekrddu fedvnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpeekuddrudekjedrfedtrdehvddphhgvlhhopegsqd hprghinhhlvghsshdrmhhhrdgrrgdrnhgvthdruhhkpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepoehsthgv vhgvsehquhhinhhtihhlvgdrnhgvthequcfukfgkgfepledtjeehnecuvehluhhsthgvrh fuihiivgeptd X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (quintile.net: 81.187.30.52 is authorized to use 'steve@quintile.net' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:81.187.30.52' matched)) receiver=tb-mx1.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="steve@quintile.net"; helo=b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk; client-ip=81.187.30.52 Received: from b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk (b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk [81.187.30.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 10:56:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from steve@quintile.net) Received: from 132.198.187.81.in-addr.arpa ([81.187.198.132] helo=quintile.net) by b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iqJ8E-0003Sk-6I for 9fans@9fans.net; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 15:56:58 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.37] ([81.187.198.132]) by quintile.net; Sat Jan 11 15:56:57 GMT 2020 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B4033005-5065-4D69-BD01-4DECA932A668 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Steve Simon Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [9fans] notes on fossil, ANTS, and 9front/Bell labs controversies Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 15:56:55 +0000 Message-Id: References: In-Reply-To: To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17C54) Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 03df3762-348b-11ea-acef-cc0bc1efae5e --Apple-Mail-B4033005-5065-4D69-BD01-4DECA932A668 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable using tlssrv is an option, as is import, but what was saying it fossil=E2=80= =99s native 9p server does not support tls, which it doesn't - i dont believ= e anyone has added it. the issue is 9boot would need tls to be able download the kernel from a file= server and it doesn=E2=80=99t have it. this is the labs boot procedure of c= ourse. 9front booting uses a full kernel to bootstrap (correct me if i am wrong) so= tls is not a problem there. anyway, fossil does not have tls and i would like to have. such a change wou= ld mean changes to the labs distro boot proceedure -Steve > On 11 Jan 2020, at 10:42 am, Rodrigo G. L=C3=B3pez wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > i'm sorry, what? lack of TLS? >=20 > go read 9front's tlssrv(8). it's been there for a while already. >=20 >=20 > -rodri >=20 >> On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:32 AM Steve Simon wrote: >>=20 >> fyi i have been running a fossil/venti pair since 2004 and it has been so= lid. >>=20 >> what is too big - honest question. >>=20 >> i thought the biggest issues are: >>=20 >> performance - the elegance and generality sacrifice some performance, tho= ugh this is not a problem for me. >>=20 >> lack of a tls fs interface - there is (imho) no excuse for a lack of tls= these days. >>=20 >> no way for a user in (say) the ventidump group to request an immediate du= mp - handy for checkpointing a code release, though justing copying the rele= ase to a new dir is ok. >>=20 >> no way to push a vac score into the /archive hierarchy - nice for migrati= ng in other backups. >>=20 >> all these are fixable and on my todo list but none have happened. >>=20 >> > On 10 Jan 2020, at 9:37 pm, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote: >> >=20 >> > =EF=BB=BF >> >>=20 >> >> The major fly in the ointment is the outdated sha1 hash function used b= y venti >> >=20 >> > major? fly? there's no problem with how sha1 is used by venti right now= . >> >=20 >> > a more substantial complaint would be that the venti/fossil system is >> > way too big. >>=20 >> ------------------------------------------ >> 9fans: 9fans >> Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta5071137bc09d294-M7a5= 6202f84a795cc3e7d9a1e >> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription >=20 > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalin= k --Apple-Mail-B4033005-5065-4D69-BD01-4DECA932A668 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

using tlssrv is an option, as is import, but what was saying it fossil=E2=80= =99s native 9p server does not support tls, which it doesn't - i dont believ= e anyone has added it.

the i= ssue is 9boot would need tls to be able download the kernel from a file serv= er and it doesn=E2=80=99t have it. this is the labs boot procedure of course= .

9front booting uses a ful= l kernel to bootstrap (correct me if i am wrong) so tls is not a problem the= re.

anyway, fossil does not= have tls and i would like to have. such a change would mean changes to the l= abs distro boot proceedure

= -Steve


On 11 Jan 2020, at 10:42 am, Rodrigo G. L=C3=B3pez <rodrigosloo= p@gmail.com> wrote:

<= div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
i'm sorry, what? lack of TLS?

<= div dir=3D"auto">go read 9front's tlssrv(8). it's been there for a while alr= eady.


-rodri

On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:32 AM Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:

fyi i have been running a fossil/venti pair since 2004 and it has been solid= .

what is too big - honest question.

i thought the biggest issues are:

performance - the elegance and generality sacrifice some performance, though= this is not a problem for me.

 lack of a tls fs interface - there is (imho) no excuse for a lack of t= ls these days.

no way for a user in (say) the ventidump group to request an immediate dump -= handy for checkpointing a code release, though justing copying the release t= o a new dir is ok.

no way to push a vac score into the /archive hierarchy - nice for migrating i= n other backups.

all these are fixable and on my todo list but none have happened.

> On 10 Jan 2020, at 9:37 pm, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>>
>> The major fly in the ointment is the outdated sha1 hash function us= ed by venti
>
> major? fly? there's no problem with how sha1 is used by venti right now= .
>
> a more substantial complaint would be that the venti/fossil system is > way too big.

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta5071137bc09d294-M7a56202f84a795= cc3e7d9a1e
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbo= x.com/groups/9fans/subscription
= --Apple-Mail-B4033005-5065-4D69-BD01-4DECA932A668--